Immigrants and Employers

[RandomIdoit 655]

26 minutes ago, slorch said:

goes through the process?

 

We have a process that is being at best perverted and at worst ignored.

 

Anyone who insists that we follow the current process is labeled a racist.

 

and then the judge thingy...why?  to add more partisan appointees to the process?

Asking someone to go to a port of entry and then presenting their case to a judge is racist? Never knew that.

[Ragnarok 103]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Republicans are the real problem, specifically Paul Ryan and Donald Trump. The former won't bring legislation to the floor that would pass both houses, the latter would (probably) veto the bill that passes.

There is no legislation that would pass both houses. I'll admit R's are hypocrites, and happy to hide on this.  But do you really think you could get democrats to vote for anything to clamp down on illegal immigration? Get serious.  Republicans have nothing to gain by proposing legislation. Anything effective will never pass.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Both parties sell their constituents down the river on immigration as it stands now.  The Dems are supposed to be about protecting low and middle income wages, and they don't. The Repubs are supposed to be about protecting the borders and they don't really want to. 

[F250 28674]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

We generally pay her a lot more but the $100 is to clean our house for 4 hours once per week. We pay her $15/hour to sit. 

Ok, that makes more sense. We spend about $250 - $300 a week for similar services.

[David Dennison 18646]

29 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

There is no legislation that would pass both houses. I'll admit R's are hypocrites, and happy to hide on this.  But do you really think you could get democrats to vote for anything to clamp down on illegal immigration? Get serious.  Republicans have nothing to gain by proposing legislation. Anything effective will never pass.

There absolutely is. There just isn't legislation that would get a majority of Republican votes.

Edited June 30, 2018 by David Dennison

[F250 28674]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I fired our presumably illegal crew and hired some dudes from Acres Homes on principle. They are a little more expensive but I can't stand being a hypocrite on this issue. I expect you anti-illegal immigrants to do the same or STFU. 

I'm an open borders guy so... I feel comfortable with hiring whoever is willing to work.

[Ragnarok 103]

44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

There absolutely is. There just isn't legislation that would get a majority of Republican votes.

Seriously? You think there is legislation to prevent hiring of illegals that would get democrat support? 

[David Dennison 18646]

5 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Seriously? You think there is legislation to prevent hiring of illegals that would get democrat support? 

Hiring illegal immigrants is already against the law. 

The DREAM Act would pass if Ryan brought it to the floor.

Edited June 30, 2018 by David Dennison

[Ragnarok 103]

Well, that's all well and good. But it has nothing to do with what we were discussing or what this thread is about.

[Hate 20103]

Both parties sell their constituents down the river on immigration as it stands now.  The Dems are supposed to be about protecting low and middle income wages, and they don't. The Repubs are supposed to be about protecting the borders and they don't really want to. 

Anytime the laws are actually enforced you stupid fucks whine about “racists”.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

8 minutes ago, Hate said:

Who does illegal immigration benefit more? Republican business owners, or Democratic workers?

Anytime the laws are actually enforced you stupid fucks whine about “racists”.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

I'm an open borders guy so... I feel comfortable with hiring whoever is willing to work.

I'm a 'honor our sovereignty ' guy. 

 

I'm going to assume someone is legally here if they are willing to work and bust their ass. 

 

After that, if they break the law fuck them up. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

In Houston nannies make $15-20 per hour. 

Is that a living wage?  Because that’s what the market is.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

I'm a 'honor our sovereignty ' guy. 

 

I'm going to assume someone is legally here if they are willing to work and bust their ass. 

 

After that, if they break the law fuck them up. 

Pretty much this. If they’re here, busting their ass, and making my family happy, why would I ask questions?  It’s not my job. And if it is, then I will make it not my job. 

[SaucyJack 3487]

5 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

I agree with the sentiment. The easiest place to stop illegal immigration is with employers .But let's get real. The democrats will block anything related to going after employers for hiring illegals.  Republicans are hypocrites on this issue too, and aren't going to do anything.  But the D's are the real problem here.

 

It was tried during the 80s in The Lege.  Guess who was the most ardent opposition on the issue?

[Ted Lange 16040]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Pretty much this. If they’re here, busting their ass, and making my family happy, why would I ask questions?  It’s not my job. And if it is, then I will make it not my job. 

Honestly, my super drunk post that started this thread seems to have lead to both sides somewhat agreeing and being civil.  ALCOHOL ALCOHOL ALCOHOL!!!

I’ve alwqys been, if you work and don’t cause problems, more power to you and welcome.   I’d like some sort of guest worker program to make sure that’s the case.  Building a dumbass trillion dollar wall is literally one of the dumbest things ever.  Securing certain areas, and using technology to keep out drugs and actual bad hombres, sign me up.

But the folks that vilify people like Rex’s house and baby sitter can fuck right off.  

[Hate 20103]

Nobody vilified them. You make that up so you can be outraged.

[Ted Lange 16040]

23 minutes ago, Hate said:

Nobody vilified them. You make that up so you can be outraged.

Well well other than the President.....

[tx 3 putt 76295]

11 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Lulz. Andy Fastow has been out of prison for a long time. Think about that. 

 

hear him talk a couple of years back, a very entertaining 3 hrs 

[Born to Run 6558]

Or simply fix the I9 system that has zero ability to verify anything. 
Employers have no tools for verifying citizenship. Even if the 40yr old needs two days to “remember “ his SS#, you have to go by the I9. 
To question or go against is to open one’s business up to being sued or bad publicity. 
 

This. (I’m a home builder) I get returns kicked back from people there appear to be legal, months or well over a year after I hire them. They often have legit insurance as well. (I have to compile insurance information too or my general liability will get out of control).
They may or may not be legal, I’ll never know, just that the info they filled out wasn’t accurate.Then I have people, like my back up house keeper, who is legal 3rd generation but won’t fill out tax forms because she learned never to give out her social. I end up eating her taxable amount even on jobs I could write off. It’s a mess.

[Born to Run 6558]

Don’t know about yard guy. My housekeeper is certainly illegal. I don’t care. 
The premise in the OP isn’t near enough to deter the issue because of the cash market from which a lot of these people get paid. 
Regardless, I don’t put this burden on employers. It’s the individual’s fault first, and state second. In fact I’d hold employers totally harmless. 

You’re complicit. Myself as well at times. Anyone I know with even a little money hires illegals and loves them like family. Whether it’s the house keeper or yard guy or Painter. We’d be proper fucked without em. Good luck getting a white person we trust in our homes doing that work for even twice the costs. We need amnesty and getting them paying in taxes.

[Born to Run 6558]

I agree with the sentiment. The easiest place to stop illegal immigration is with employers .But let's get real. The democrats will block anything related to going after employers for hiring illegals.  Republicans are hypocrites on this issue too, and aren't going to do anything.  But the D's are the real problem here.

Right! the party of Labor Unions is for unorganized workers who can’t vote or pay taxes for all that spending.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Or simply fix the I9 system that has zero ability to verify anything. 

Employers have no tools for verifying citizenship. Even if the 40yr old needs two days to “remember “ his SS#, you have to go by the I9. 

To question or go against is to open one’s business up to being sued or bad publicity. 

 

This is not true...completely.

While the i-9 does have its opportunities; employers ARE allowed background checks.  Residency verification, and not just the current one,  is part of that.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

This is not true...completely.

While the i-9 does have its opportunities; employers ARE allowed background checks.  Residency verification, and not just the current one,  is part of that.

What does that do?  Illegals do live here and have residences here.  

It isn’t against the law to rent an illegal a place to live. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[Brisketexan 104537]

Honestly, my super drunk post that started this thread seems to have lead to both sides somewhat agreeing and being civil.  ALCOHOL ALCOHOL ALCOHOL!!!
I’ve alwqys been, if you work and don’t cause problems, more power to you and welcome.   I’d like some sort of guest worker program to make sure that’s the case.  Building a dumbass trillion dollar wall is literally one of the dumbest things ever.  Securing certain areas, and using technology to keep out drugs and actual bad hombres, sign me up.
But the folks that vilify people like Rex’s house and baby sitter can fuck right off.  

This. GWB had the right approach on this, and it still is. A system to control and monitor who comes in, get them on the grid, and allow them to come and go so there isn’t an incentive to stay here forever if they don’t want to. Require them to keep their nose clean. Just acknowledge and work WITH economic reality instead of trying to defeat it - which will never happen.

Until the rhetoric turned into 100% nativist bullshit (deport everyone! They’re taking over our country! We can’t have a taco truck on every corner!), the large majority of Americans supported ideas like these.

You’re complicit. Myself as well at times. Anyone I know with even a little money hires illegals and loves them like family. Whether it’s the house keeper or yard guy or Painter. We’d be proper fucked without em. Good luck getting a white person we trust in our homes doing that work for even twice the costs. We need amnesty and getting them paying in taxes.

I believe in hiring the best guy at the best price. Because the laws of economics. We’ve hired workers who are documented, and some who aren’t. I don’t care. If they hustle and do good work at a fair price (not a steal, but fair), that’s who o SHOULD hire.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

This. GWB had the right approach on this, and it still is. A system to control and monitor who comes in, get them on the grid, and allow them to come and go so there isn’t an incentive to stay here forever if they don’t want to. Require them to keep their nose clean. Just acknowledge and work WITH economic reality instead of trying to defeat it - which will never happen.

Until the rhetoric turned into 100% nativist bullshit (deport everyone! They’re taking over our country! We can’t have a taco truck on every corner!), the large majority of Americans supported ideas like these.



I believe in hiring the best guy at the best price. Because the laws of economics. We’ve hired workers who are documented, and some who aren’t. I don’t care. If they hustle and do good work at a fair price (not a steal, but fair), that’s who o SHOULD hire.

 

I agree with most of this, but an illegal alien has an unfair advantage over someone who files taxes, and is tryin g to keep a legal and above board business, which will keep their prices higher.  A guest worker visa is the only sane answer.  

[David Dennison 18646]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I agree with most of this, but an illegal alien has an unfair advantage over someone who files taxes, and is tryin g to keep a legal and above board business, which will keep their prices higher.  A guest worker visa is the only sane answer.  

Which we already have. The program still can't keep up with demand.

Edited July 1, 2018 by David Dennison

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

What does that do?  Illegals do live here and have residences here.  

It isn’t against the law to rent an illegal a place to live. 

They must present documentation of who they are.  They are verified.

 

Not saying this is absolute protection for employers, but it is a tool in the process.

 

I don’t believe many illegals are employed because they trick a potential employer.  It’s more deliberate ( by employers) than that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by slorch

[RandomIdoit 655]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Which we already have. The program still can't keep up with demand.

Because those positions are filled with illegals by companies that do not have harsh penalties imposed on them. If those companies were forced to only hire legal workers, the amount of people in the guest worker program would grow.

[F250 28674]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

A system to control and monitor who comes in, get them on the grid, and allow them to come and go so there isn’t an incentive to stay here forever if they don’t want to.

This point doesn't get enough attention. I have known plenty of illegals and all of them wanted them to return to Mexico but were afraid they would lose their ability to return back to the U.S. in order to work. As a result many just hunker down in the U.S. out of fear of losing their ability to earn an income. Mexicans have strong family ties and the only thing that really drives them to stay away from their family is financial necessity. Another benefit to allowing them to come and go for the purpose of work would be that it would remove the incentive to bring their immediate family with them.

[Brisketexan 104537]

^^^ EXACTLY.

As for a real understanding of the border, here’s some images from the west side of SA (we’re at a baseball tourney - they made the title game, so we’re here through lunch).

I stopped at a nearby grocery earlier to pick up some fresh tortillas to bring home. There was a buzzing machine of older Mexican ladies making breakfast tacos (.75 each or 2 for $1 - take that Torchy’s). The clientele and staff were speaking both languages casually. Happy people on a Sunday morning. Were some undocumented? Maybe. They were just folks getting tacos and chatting, like everyone else.

After game 1, we hit a joint for lunch. Had them change from the telenovela to the soccer game.



Barbacoa. Lengua. The game on Telemundo (stupid Russia). The boy with a taco and some first-rate enchiladas. Homemade tortillas. And a lady came in from the street selling homemade desserts: The boy and I shared a fantastic slice of strawberry cake. A perfect between-games lunch. An older Hispanic man stopped us as we were leaving; he wanted to talk baseball, because he’d played semi-pro back in the day. Mostly Hispanic folks, speaking both languages (the boy ordered entirely in Spanish - good stuff). A few white folks. Several young black guys with dreads. A perfect slice not just of Mexico, or Texas, but AMERICA. This is no “crisis.” This is who we are. And we are better for it.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, F250 said:

This point doesn't get enough attention. I have known plenty of illegals and all of them wanted them to return to Mexico but were afraid they would lose their ability to return back to the U.S. in order to work. As a result many just hunker down in the U.S. out of fear of losing their ability to earn an income. Mexicans have strong family ties and the only thing that really drives them to stay away from their family is financial necessity. Another benefit to allowing them to come and go for the purpose of work would be that it would remove the incentive to bring their immediate family with them.

Legal Citizens can leave enter the country at will, correct?

 

This situation already exists.

[F250 28674]

Just now, slorch said:

Legal Citizens can leave enter the country at will, correct?

 

This situation already exists.

Oh, everything is working as intended. I got ya.

 

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

Legal Citizens can leave enter the country at will, correct?
 
This situation already exists.

Or....you know...instead of setting up a situation that incentivized Jorge to bring his whole family from Mexico, or stay here and start a family, we could set up a system where Jorge could have a work permit that allows him to back and forth to Guanajuato, benefiting his family left behind, while also avoiding making him a permanent (but illegal) resident of the US.

A “bend, but don’t break” system makes perfect sense. Instead, it’s “wall or nothing.” Sofa King stupid.

[Guest]

Fuck those borders.

 

open access for everybody..

 

any control measures are racist.

 

cool.  Who wouldn’t buy in on that?  What could possibly go wrong?

 

why can’t Jorge emmigrate properly? We ‘re not here for non-citizens’ benefit.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by slorch

[Brisketexan 104537]

Fuck those borders.
 
open access for everybody..
 
any control measures are racist.
 
cool.  Who wouldn’t buy in on that?  What could possibly go wrong?
 
why can’t Jorge emmigrate properly? We ‘re not here for non-citizens’ benefit.
 
 

Really? That’s where you went with my post? Did I say open access for all? Did I say “no screening?” Did I say “nobody can be rejected?

We’ve had a functioning border in the past. It worked much like what I proposed. There’s a jillion options between “WALL!” and “open borders.” The grown-ups here have been discussing them. Why don’t you go back to smearing feces on the sides of your crib, and leave the conversation to the adults?

[BrazilHorn 6576]

Make it where for first five years post immigration you cannot get any federal or state aid and you cannot vote. 

Prove you’re here and can add some type of value then you can get assistance in time  

This take impetus for Ds away (uneducated poor voting bloc) and fear mongering of Rs away (they’re taking our tax dollars)  It would force more rational discussion vs the emotional theatre we deal with today  

also get rid of citizenship conveyed based on birth in US. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

We need to bring back the old bracero program and expand it.  A whole bunch just want to earn enough money to support their family and build a decent house back home.  It doesn’t take much.  I don’t know why we can’t do it.  Works well for everyone.  

I have zero problem with hard working Mexicans/Hondurans/Guatemalans.  The vast, vast majority obey the law (outside of car insurance -  there is a reason many people joke that UIM coverage means uninsured Mexican) and work hard.  Wish we could trade some of our lazy fucks for them.  

We should have work permits for those that want to work here. And a path to citizenship for the ones who want to stay and have demonstrated they obey the law and support themselves. 

[Brisketexan 104537]

We need to bring back the old bracero program and expand it.  A whole bunch just want to earn enough money to support their family and build a decent house back home.  It doesn’t take much.  I don’t know why we can’t do it.  Works well for everyone.  

I have zero problem with hard working Mexicans/Hondurans/Guatemalans.  The vast, vast majority obey the law (outside of car insurance -  there is a reason many people joke that UIM coverage means uninsured Mexican) and work hard.  Wish we could trade some of our lazy fucks for them.  

We should have work permits for those that want to work here. And a path to citizenship for the ones who want to stay and have demonstrated they obey the law and support themselves. 

Slorch...see this. Johnny and I disagree about a LOT these days. But this is a reasonable approach to immigration. We control it, do so in a way that meshes with our economy, and even select “top performers” for the prize of citizenship. And importantly, such an approach minimizes so many of the things folks on the right are worried about: chain migration, “anchor babies,” etc (braceros didn’t have anchor babies).

[RDCanecutter 26246]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Barbacoa. Lengua.

Where's my plate, fool?

[David Dennison 18646]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

We need to bring back the old bracero program and expand it.  A whole bunch just want to earn enough money to support their family and build a decent house back home.  It doesn’t take much.  I don’t know why we can’t do it.  Works well for everyone.  

I have zero problem with hard working Mexicans/Hondurans/Guatemalans.  The vast, vast majority obey the law (outside of car insurance -  there is a reason many people joke that UIM coverage means uninsured Mexican) and work hard.  Wish we could trade some of our lazy fucks for them.  

We should have work permits for those that want to work here. And a path to citizenship for the ones who want to stay and have demonstrated they obey the law and support themselves. 

Good luck getting the wing nutty Republicans to vote for anything that includes a path to citizenship.

[seven 1366]

42 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Good luck getting the wing nutty Republicans to vote for anything that includes a path to citizenship.

Or letting brown people cross the border 

[SKJ 1305]

On 6/30/2018 at 5:21 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Republicans exploiting cheap labor is their greatest pastime.  You might as well ask them to ban baseball.

I thought it was sexual assault.

Then baseball

Then treason

Then cheap labor

[Guest]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Good luck getting the wing nutty Republicans to vote for anything that includes a path to citizenship.

It already exists.

 

We don't like the process, so we ignore it.  and by we, I mean the entirety of our country.

 

So lets throw some more words at the issue...

 

or we COULD enforce the law of the land and reform from there.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

7 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Which we already have. The program still can't keep up with demand.

Are you referring to H1B?  If so, that really isn't a GUEST WORKER program.

[Hate 20103]

Or the people of Mexico can work on making their country great so they don’t have to leave. Crazy, I know.

[RandomIdoit 655]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Are you referring to H1B?  If so, that really isn't a GUEST WORKER program.

I think he means the H-2B.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2B_visa

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Or the people of Mexico can work on making their country great so they don’t have to leave. Crazy, I know.

I hear this a lot. And it’s a great thought, but think about this:

How helpless do you feel to affect change here in the US? Now imagine a place that is corrupt on a level that is almost impossible to imagine. Then add on top of that poverty and violent crime that makes the worst parts of the US look like Disneyworld. I don’t fault these folks for wanting to leave at any means. Does that mean I want an open border? Nope. But what your suggesting is so far beyond possible for your average Mexican (or Guatemalan, salvadoreño, etc).

I am more in line with what brisket and Sack are suggesting.

In college, I worked at that nursery at the corner of 360 and Bee Caves. The other laborer was a Mexican guy that would work there for 6 months the. Go back to Mexico and work there with his family. I am guessing a whole lot would do that kind of thing if they didn’t think they would be locked up or have their kids taken from them.

[Hate 20103]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a guest worker program, as I have been supportive of that idea before. Im saying the Mexican government needs to declare war on the cartels and get rid of them once and for all. It won’t ever happen, but it should.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a guest worker program, as I have been supportive of that idea before. Im saying the Mexican government needs to declare war on the cartels and get rid of them once and for all. It won’t ever happen, but it should.

The Mexican government and the cartels are one and the same.