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2018 Pro Cycling: Team Sky Goes Postal, the Chris Froome Saga (Plus TdF)

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 6065

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Yeah.  I've often wondered if the Lance thing screwed a couple of generations of American cyclists.  First of all, it probably soured many of them in that they realized the sport was dirty and, to become a professional, they'd pretty much have to dope no matter what.  Secondly, European teams might stay away from American riders considering it was the American legal system that brought down LA.  This would have an added effect in having European teams not even want to bring over and develop the youngsters knowing that they could be bringing on an entirely different level of scrutiny with an American rider.

As for Phinney.  He was supposed to be the next big thing considering his lineage and the way he burst onto the scene years ago.  If his interviews reflect his outlook on competitiveness, then that may definitely be the problem.

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Bevo

Bevo 13593

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9 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yeah.  I've often wondered if the Lance thing screwed a couple of generations of American cyclists.  First of all, it probably soured many of them in that they realized the sport was dirty and, to become a professional, they'd pretty much have to dope no matter what.  Secondly, European teams might stay away from American riders considering it was the American legal system that brought down LA.  This would have an added effect in having European teams not even want to bring over and develop the youngsters knowing that they could be bringing on an entirely different level of scrutiny with an American rider.

As for Phinney.  He was supposed to be the next big thing considering his lineage and the way he burst onto the scene years ago.  If his interviews reflect his outlook on competitiveness, then that may definitely be the problem.

I think that is true. I got into cycling because of Lance. And it seems like the sport took off in the US. Then after the Lemond/Armstrong feud that took down US cycling coupled with the Puerto scandal and other European's being allowed to skate the rules and the growth of mountain biking in the US, I think road racing in the US declined.

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G650

G650 14273

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I dont think it changed much at that level personally, but I despised Lance when he was racing and kind of like him now, so I have a somewhat opposite viewpoint. It certainly impacted weekend warriors though, along with a lot of other changes like the rise of gravel riding. 

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Txzen

Txzen 498

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I guess as someone who got into cycling watching Greg Lemond compete and win at the TdF, I bristle that the 'Lemond/Armstrong feud took down US cycling'. 

Armstrong was the aggressor and basically cost Greg his position within Trek because he dared to say the emperor had no clothes - early, consistently, and loudly. Lance poured so much energy into discrediting him personally, in business, and psychologically to quiet him so he could continue with the greatest sporting fraud in the history of the sport.

Lance fucked an entire generation of riders, and we still don't know the extent his corruption within the establishment which I have no doubt is still in play given the recent Froome debacle. 

I don't think the dearth of top-caliber US athletes is completely due to Lance, but it certainly is not due at all to a 'Lemond/Armstrong feud'. Frankly, there seems to be few top-caliber athletes capable of challenging Sky these days. I have a feeling that Doumoulin is having a very Cadel Evans-like career - constantly second to guys who seem extraterrestrial. 

 

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8694

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18 minutes ago, Txzen said:

...I have a feeling that Doumoulin is having a very Cadel Evans-like career - constantly second to guys who seem extraterrestrial. 


I feel that if you are able to constantly second to ANYONE in cycling, then your piss & blood glow in the dark.

It isn't like only one guy in pro cycling is cheating.

If you are able to finish 2nd, then you have been cheating. And that goes for 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th...

They should test every rider on the team of the leader every day. And they should test every rider on the teams that have riders finish 1st, 2nd, & 3rd on each individual stage.

Just like The Blue Train was fueled by PEDs, at least half, if not the entire SKY team, is flying on PEDs.

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G650

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5 hours ago, Txzen said:

I guess as someone who got into cycling watching Greg Lemond compete and win at the TdF, I bristle that the 'Lemond/Armstrong feud took down US cycling'. 

 

I got into it the same time. I clearly remember how gigantic it was when LeMond finally won. I was ardently on LeMonds side in the early aughts as well, but I have to say over the years I've cooled on LeMond the more I learned about him. Not that I particularly dislike him or anything, but I'm definitely not much of a fan like I used to be.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8694

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Tour de France Expel Team Sky's Gianni Moscon for Punching Elie Gesbert
hi-res-648877bdf58297387a1a43519b127196_

Team Sky rider Gianni Moscon has been expelled from the 2018 Tour de France after TV images showed him throwing a punch at Elie Gesbert, a rider from the Fortuneo-Samsic team.

Per Cycling News, race officials and Team Sky reviewed footage of the incident after the conclusion of Sunday's stage. News of his disqualification became official later in the evening.

Tout Le Sport shared footage of the incident:

According to the report, the Tour de France commissaires used an article in the UCI regulations to come to their decision, citing "acts of violence among riders."

[snip]

Controversy has plagued the 24-year-old throughout his short career. As explained by Cycling News, he was suspended by Team Sky for six weeks last year following an incident involving Kevin Reza. He admitted to racially abusing the Frenchman during a stage of the Tour de Romandie.

He was also accused of deliberately crashing Sebastien Reichenbach during the Tre Valli Varesine, although the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence. Per Cycling News, Sky previously warned Moscon his conduct needs to change: "Gianni knows that there is no excuse for his behaviour and that any repeat will result in termination of his contract."...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2787318-tour-de-france-expel-team-skys-gianni-moscon-for-punching-elie-gesbert

Edited by Napoleon
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Bevo

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6 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Tour de France Expel Team Sky's Gianni Moscon for Punching Elie Gesbert
hi-res-648877bdf58297387a1a43519b127196_

Team Sky rider Gianni Moscon has been expelled from the 2018 Tour de France after TV images showed him throwing a punch at Elie Gesbert, a rider from the Fortuneo-Samsic team.

Per Cycling News, race officials and Team Sky reviewed footage of the incident after the conclusion of Sunday's stage. News of his disqualification became official later in the evening.

Tout Le Sport shared footage of the incident:

According to the report, the Tour de France commissaires used an article in the UCI regulations to come to their decision, citing "acts of violence among riders."

[snip]

Controversy has plagued the 24-year-old throughout his short career. As explained by Cycling News, he was suspended by Team Sky for six weeks last year following an incident involving Kevin Reza. He admitted to racially abusing the Frenchman during a stage of the Tour de Romandie.

He was also accused of deliberately crashing Sebastien Reichenbach during the Tre Valli Varesine, although the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence. Per Cycling News, Sky previously warned Moscon his conduct needs to change: "Gianni knows that there is no excuse for his behaviour and that any repeat will result in termination of his contract."...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2787318-tour-de-france-expel-team-skys-gianni-moscon-for-punching-elie-gesbert

God, I hope he blames his issues on roid rage.

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Napoleon

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1 hour ago, Txzen said:

Alaphilippe is the real deal. Haven’t seen someone look so good climbing in the drops since Pantani. Chapeau. 

Phil Gil’s crash was sickening - did not expect him to walk out of that. 


Pantani? Ummmm... when I saw him fly by a known doper, Jan Ullrich, on his way toward winning the Tour de France the year before Lance took over the role of Doping King, I knew that Pantani was juiced to the gills.

"Although Pantani never tested positive during his career, his career was beset by doping allegations. In the 1999 Giro d'Italia, he was expelled due to his irregular blood values. Although he was disqualified for "health reasons," it was implied that Pantani's high haematocrit was the product of EPO use."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantani


Saying that someone is "the real deal" and then comparing him to a busted doper (who never tested positive, but...) is kind of funny.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8694

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7 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Unless he crashes or has some other misfortune, Thomas has this in the bag. 

Ever day I click on this hoping to see that Froome has crashed and is out of the race.

I guess that this is the next best thing.

Is there an Individual Time Trial on the horizon that Froome can juice up for and beat Thomas by more than 1 min 39 secs edit 2 mins 31 secs?

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8694

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2 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

No.  Thomas is the British TT champ.  He may not win the stage, but he's not dropping tens of minutes to anyone. 

1) I wonder if the Giro d'Italia took too much out of Froome.

2) I wonder if Nairo Quintana was chewing coco leaves as climbed today.

3) I'd like to see Primož Roglic gain 17 seconds on Froome in the TT and take the final podium spot on Sunday.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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14 hours ago, Napoleon said:


Pantani? Ummmm... when I saw him fly by a known doper, Jan Ullrich, on his way toward winning the Tour de France the year before Lance took over the role of Doping King, I knew that Pantani was juiced to the gills.

"Although Pantani never tested positive during his career, his career was beset by doping allegations. In the 1999 Giro d'Italia, he was expelled due to his irregular blood values. Although he was disqualified for "health reasons," it was implied that Pantani's high haematocrit was the product of EPO use."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantani


Saying that someone is "the real deal" and then comparing him to a busted doper (who never tested positive, but...) is kind of funny.

Jesus you are an insufferable asshole.

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 6065

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Sky has ruined this race for me.  Just so lame that it comes down to the "Queen" stage and Sky has 4 riders in the final pack.  Perhaps everyone is cheating, but it's just not enjoyable to watch.  I mean, the main guy is off his game, 2nd guy takes over.  And how is a 21 year-old climbing better than all but about 4 riders?

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Bevo

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7 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Sky has ruined this race for me.  Just so lame that it comes down to the "Queen" stage and Sky has 4 riders in the final pack.  Perhaps everyone is cheating, but it's just not enjoyable to watch.  I mean, the main guy is off his game, 2nd guy takes over.  And how is a 21 year-old climbing better than all but about 4 riders?

I agree. Without watching I have a pretty good idea of what is going to happen. The only question I have is whether Froome can hold onto second place. Otherwise, I just have to wait a year or two more until Sky gets caught.

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Napoleon

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5 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Jesus you are an insufferable asshole.

Well, I guess that I could act like one of the absolute fucking morons who thought that Lance wasn’t a cheating bitch from the second or third year and would denounce naysayers. 

I guess morons find people with half a clue to be insufferable. 

I watched Jan Ullrich win the Tour from the Place de la Concorde as a rider from the 1950 Tour explain all of the various competitions and strategies and then a year later I watched Pantani demonstrate the advantages of doping. 

I would never compare anyone I thought was clean to Ullrich, Pantani, or Armstrong, but be my guest. 

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Txzen

Txzen 498

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FFS...yes, Pantani was doped to the gills. He was also one of the most natural climbers and bike handlers in his generation, with a penchant for climbing in the drops - everyone else looks like a fool doing it but Alaphilippe pulls it off, and descends as well as Il Falco. Hence the comparison  

This really is the No Joy In Cycling Thread. 

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G650

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9 hours ago, Txzen said:

FFS...yes, Pantani was doped to the gills. He was also one of the most natural climbers and bike handlers in his generation, with a penchant for climbing in the drops - everyone else looks like a fool doing it but Alaphilippe pulls it off, and descends as well as Il Falco. Hence the comparison  

This really is the No Joy In Cycling Thread. 

Seriously.

Viva Il Pirata.

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Txzen

Txzen 498

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The Soulor/Aubisque from the way they are coming tomorrow is just great. It's an epic, but doable climb which takes you from quaint small villages with beautiful old churches past the treeline into a beautiful, vivd green alpine environment. From where I've stayed near Argeles-Gazost, it's a 40mi out and back, with 6500' in climbing. Max elevation is about 5600'.

Crossing from the Soulor to the start of the Aubisque is the Cirque du Litor, a road barely two lanes wide carved into the mountainside with a few absolute sheer drops and no protection. For those with a fear of heights (me) sticking to the outside 'lane' is really hard. There are a few tunnels as well, one which is just long enough to plunge a cyclist in complete darkness for a second longer than you'd like. The tunnels are wet and riddled with potholes. 

It being France, naturally there are delightful places to stop roadside at the top of both climbs and have a meal, or a glass of rose on a hot day. 

It's not really hard enough, I think, for a major GC shake-up tomorrow, unless someone decides to fly on the descent. But is sure pretty to watch. 

Spoiler

Gf356CDg_o.jpg

atPMoKDJ_o.jpg

4uR92fpM_o.jpg

 

 

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idigTexas

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None of them had the ride of their lives.  They had typical rides.  Maybe it's because they cheat better than the other teams.  Maybe it's because Sky deliberately recruit riders who are good at ITT, and spend insane dollars and time on technology and training for it.  Maybe it's all of the above.  So Dumoulin  is just naturally gifted and worked harder? 

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Knoxtnhorn

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Nobody said Dumoulin is clean, but c'mon, Sky just happens to have 5-6 riders leading up every mountain AND taking top spots in time trials?  Not only that, but the UK hadn't had shit for riders for 30 years before Sky showed up.  Sky pops into the picture and the UK (and Kenya) magically produces 5 of the top 6 riders over the past few years?

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Bevo

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All the ex top Sky guys <strike>Bradley Wiggins<strike>, Rigoberto Urán, Davide Appollonio, Richie Porte, and Mikel Landa weren't the same after leaving Sky. We will see what happens next year to Froome or Thomas if one of them leaves.

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Bevo

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1 hour ago, idigTexas said:

What is Sky doing that no one else is doing or can't do?

 

An organized, well-managed cheating system as opposed to individuals having to figure out the proper channels and regimens on their own.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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8 hours ago, idigTexas said:

What is Sky doing that no one else is doing or can't do?

 

They have money and nobody else does. Other people can't handle that and so adopt a cynical posture. They might be cheating nobody knows.

I don't know the truth but I love the sport and will pay homage to the sacrifice the riders make, regardless of the rest of it. It is a pageant of great beauty and suffering that will forever exceed the Super Bowl in all its gaudiness or the boring World Series or the NBA which is great but goes on forever.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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Napoleon

Napoleon 8694

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3 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

They have money and nobody else does. Other people can't handle that and so adopt a cynical posture. They might be cheating nobody knows.

I don't know the truth but I love the sport and will pay homage to the sacrifice the riders make, regardless of the rest of it. It is a pageant of great beauty and suffering that will forever exceed the Super Bowl in all its gaudiness or the boring World Series or the NBA which is great but goes on forever.

But NOT the FIFA World Cup!

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