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USWNT 2023: Journey to a 5th Star

pacman

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TonyTexas
TonyTexas

On the bright side, we’ll never have to pretend to root for Rapinoe again. 

Deej
Deej

So, would this be a bad time to ask for more money?

MisterP
MisterP

Fair play Chicken Sandwich. Doesnt mean they arent overpaid under performing cunts. Which I guess is the amercian way innit mate. 

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Homercles

Homercles 10205

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Wait…so now, instead of being up in arms over folks kneeling for the anthem, when they do stand they’re now required to sing along as well?  

It’s the World Cup…the apex of these peoples careers.  If I were in their shoes I’d be so deep in thought about the upcoming game that it’d be a win if I put my shorts on the right way.  I don’t see every motherfucker in a uniform singing at the Super Bowl…oh wait they’re not uppity women.

What’s next for women/minorities…they have to a cappella the whole thing wearing the flag and holding sparklers?  

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dieucla98

dieucla98 2942

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17 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Instantly labeling anyone who celebrates Rapinoe's recent World Cup failure as a bigot seems just as ignorant as those who categorize her as some sort of "all-time" loser.

 

 

When the underlying reason is because she's gay, proud to be gay, and takes every opportunity to fight for gay rights (i.e. the national anthem), then I'd say bigot is a pretty fair characterization. Maybe that's not the case for all of them and they're just shitty sports fans from Philly, but I'd argue my statement covers the majority of them.

Edited by dieucla98
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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13551

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10 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

When the underlying reason is because she's gay, proud to be gay, and takes every opportunity to fight for gay rights (i.e. the national anthem), then I'd say bigot is a pretty fair characterization. Maybe that's not the case for all of them and they're just shitty sports fans from Philly, but I'd argue my statement covers the majority of them.

It's incendiary to immediately frame their criticism as so motivated, though.

Megan's contribution to women's soccer is immeasurable and undeniable. But she was also the face of a specious (and poorly rationalized) campaign to procure "equal pay" for USWNT athletes despite their choosing to participate in a sport that is inherently and unavoidably sexist and inequitable (i.e., women's soccer does not draw remotely near the viewership and therefore the dollars that the men's version does, and much of the viewership it does draw is pruriently motivated). She also selfishly held on for far too long, presumably because of her love for the game but also because of the fame and financial rewards it brought.

I understand why she did those things--we're all just tryna get paid--but putting oneself out there does tend to make oneself a target.

I don't know if that's why so many resent her. Like you, I'm not a mind reader. However, it's just as bigoted and ignorant to instantly dismiss anyone critical of Rapinoe or the USWNT's effort in general as being generated by misogyny or homophobia. There can be other motivations, even reasonable ones. Immediately needing to frame it in the worst and most prejudicial way is poor form and the sort of stuff one expects to find in the CR**, not here.

 

** I do not post in or keep up with CR threads, and I try to know as little of posters' political preferences as possible. If I did, maybe I would believe as you do that those being the most critical of Rapinoe are motivated by bigotry, but I try very hard to not see posters on this site through that lens because I'm mostly here to share and laugh, not hate and debate.

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Homercles

Homercles 10205

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1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

It's incendiary to immediately frame their criticism as so motivated, though.

Megan's contribution to women's soccer is immeasurable and undeniable. But she was also the face of a specious (and poorly rationalized) campaign to procure "equal pay" for USWNT athletes despite their choosing to participate in a sport that is inherently and unavoidably sexist and inequitable (i.e., women's soccer does not draw remotely near the viewership and therefore the dollars that the men's version does, and much of the viewership it does draw is pruriently motivated). She also selfishly held on for far too long, presumably because of her love for the game but also because of the fame and financial rewards it brought.

I understand why she did those things--we're all just tryna get paid--but putting oneself out there does tend to make oneself a target.

I don't know if that's why so many resent her. Like you, I'm not a mind reader. However, it's just as bigoted and ignorant to instantly dismiss anyone critical of Rapinoe or the USWNT's effort in general as being generated by misogyny or homophobia. There can be other motivations, even reasonable ones. Immediately needing to frame it in the worst and most prejudicial way is poor form and the sort of stuff one expects to find in the CR**, not here.

 

** I do not post in or keep up with CR threads, and I try to know as little of posters' political preferences as possible. If I did, maybe I would believe as you do that those being the most critical of Rapinoe are motivated by bigotry, but I try very hard to not see posters on this site through that lens because I'm mostly here to share and laugh, not hate and debate.

Then people need to be saying this when they berate her, not posting to Twitter that she’s anti-American or attributing it to buzzwords like wokeness.  

The prevailing social constructs of sexuality and identity have changed in a broadly global sense, so if you make a blanket judgement or simply express glee at her/their misfortune without expounding then it’s fair game to assume motivation is a perfunctory reflection of your beliefs.  

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12862

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I'm calling a spade a spade.

If you say "Rapinoe is old and can't physically get it done out there" fine. That's a valid criticism. There was plenty of criticism to give her in the tournament, and that includes failing to hit the target in the shootout. THOUGH, she wasn't the only one that missed AND I don't see Smith or O'Hara getting any of the hate that Rapinoe does.

To attack her (or anyone else) for any social stances, and that includes the equal pay aspect, then to me that's not a good look. That says a lot more about the person doing the attacking than it does the person taking a stance.

And then to openly celebrate the United States losing because Rapinoe missed a kick (and not take Smith or O'Hara to task), then you're just being a shit head.

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13551

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37 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Then people need to be saying this when they berate her, not posting to Twitter that she’s anti-American or attributing it to buzzwords like wokeness.  

The prevailing social constructs of sexuality and identity have changed in a broadly global sense, so if you make a blanket judgement or simply express glee at her/their misfortune without expounding then it’s fair game to assume motivation is a perfunctory reflection of your beliefs.  

My argument isn't aimed at what people are saying on Twitter or other social networking sites; just here.

As for the rest of your post, are you contending that, because certain elements of society outside of this site have been hateful toward members of the LGBTQIA+ community, then Surly posters who are critical of anyone from that community must explicitly disclose their reasons for doing so, lest they be labeled a bigot?

If so, what's next? If Tim Weah misses a PK for the USMNT, are you going to brand anyone who makes fun of him for doing so racist? It's beyond a slippery slope.

32 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I'm calling a spade a spade.

If you say "Rapinoe is old and can't physically get it done out there" fine. That's a valid criticism. There was plenty of criticism to give her in the tournament, and that includes failing to hit the target in the shootout. THOUGH, she wasn't the only one that missed AND I don't see Smith or O'Hara getting any of the hate that Rapinoe does.

To attack her (or anyone else) for any social stances, and that includes the equal pay aspect, then to me that's not a good look. That says a lot more about the person doing the attacking than it does the person taking a stance.

And then to openly celebrate the United States losing because Rapinoe missed a kick (and not take Smith or O'Hara to task), then you're just being a shit head.

Agree that those skewering Rapinoe for her penalty miss should be consistent and extend the same "courtesy" to Smith and O'Hara. That said, as I wrote the other day, it's stupid to begrudge a player for said miss (beyond the initial disappointment) because it inevitably happens to everyone.

Also 100 percent that US "fans" celebrating the women's team crashing out simply because they don't like the politics of some of its players suck. Same goes for those who slam any athlete for not participating in the national anthem in the manner in which they believe is appropriate.

Those fans are placing their personal agenda above the greater good, which is, ahem, apparently all too common.

 

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fuggled

fuggled 576

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2 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Instantly labeling anyone who celebrates Rapinoe's recent World Cup failure as a bigot seems just as ignorant as those who categorize her as some sort of "all-time" loser.

 

 

Dude...just two posts above yours @Longboard Horn posted a meme featuring Rapinoe in comparison to the Swedish team.  The underlying message of that meme is, "women who don't look and behave the way I expect women to look and behave are deserving of hate and ridicule."  That's the joke.  It's a joke that only bigots will find funny.  Pointing this out is not ignorant.

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6174

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3 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Good bit up on Defector talking about the problems with the USWNT. They also address most of the voices you hear in the aftermath of a loss

https://defector.com/sunrise-is-way-too-early-to-be-crying-for-the-uswnt

 

image.png.427933333f461273ba9178b833fdf4cd.png

 

Shit, how did that highlight end up in there?

I've read her story a couple of times now and I am just not seeing her transition here. 

-------------------------------

In the wake of our elimination on Sunday, critiques are coming from all sides. There are the bigots gleefully claiming vindication for hating these players because they advocate for human rights. There are the well-meaning but ill-informed armchair experts who have no idea who to blame. And then there are those who have followed this U.S. team for years, tracking its frustrating decline and yelling about it to anyone who will listen. 

Assuming you are not one of the first group of people (if you are, please read this factually spotty but absolutely correct in spirit Twitter thread), you believe in that needlessly sticky issue which has defined this team for so long: all footballers deserve to be paid equally. Equal pay is about human dignity and financial liberation, and it’s also about fairness. If you believe in fairness, and you watched the USWNT’s four games in this World Cup, you are perhaps coming around to the hard reality that U.S. simply did not deserve to win the World Cup—not as one nation, one team. Not until that heartbreaker against the Swedes did the USWNT play like a team; despite the players’ outrageous individual talent, 11 individuals cannot win a World Cup. 

-----------------------

I don't hate players because of whom they sleep with but, that has absolutely nothing to do with the equal pay issue.

They accepted a contract, with terms they asked for, and then they wanted to change the contract.

I'm not sure if she is saying that people who opposed their side in the equal-pay issue are in the well-meaning but ill-informed group.

I think a lot of soccer fans did not like that and it turned me a bit against them as collective bargainers, not as a team.

I think Rapinoe being the driving, or at least most vocal voice, force on the issue is part of why a lot of folks don't like her. At least the soccer folks in my family are like that and I can't speak for others.

I always root for U.S. teams.

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13551

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1 hour ago, fuggled said:

Dude...just two posts above yours @Longboard Horn posted a meme featuring Rapinoe in comparison to the Swedish team.  The underlying message of that meme is, "women who don't look and behave the way I expect women to look and behave are deserving of hate and ridicule."  That's the joke.  It's a joke that only bigots will find funny.  Pointing this out is not ignorant.

That guy is in a class of his own. I don't see anyone else agreeing with him or expressing a similar sentiment.

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12862

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5 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Although, I will say that whomever "designed" our gal's uniforms should be punched in the head, guy or gal, multiple times.

Or once, by 64-year old Tommy The Hitman (a.k.a., Motor City Cobra) Hearns

 

roberto duran fight GIF by I Am Duran

Hitman Hearns? FUCK THAT SHIT!!

MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER!!!!!

jLkPSG.gif 

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12862

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8 hours ago, Bottlecap said:

well it was Nike, so yeah

The laziness of Nike is just sad. It's been going on for years. That the federation (and clubs too) let them get away with it is pretty pathetic.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11215245/Fans-slam-Nike-lazy-trash-World-Cup-kits-following-official-launch.html

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2017/9/12/16296102/nike-soccer-third-kit-barcelona-inter-milan-chelsea-tottenham

 

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yoladu

yoladu 4090

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On 8/8/2023 at 11:00 AM, Captain Ron said:

I'm calling a spade a spade.

If you say "Rapinoe is old and can't physically get it done out there" fine. That's a valid criticism. There was plenty of criticism to give her in the tournament, and that includes failing to hit the target in the shootout. THOUGH, she wasn't the only one that missed AND I don't see Smith or O'Hara getting any of the hate that Rapinoe does.

To attack her (or anyone else) for any social stances, and that includes the equal pay aspect, then to me that's not a good look. That says a lot more about the person doing the attacking than it does the person taking a stance.

And then to openly celebrate the United States losing because Rapinoe missed a kick (and not take Smith or O'Hara to task), then you're just being a shit head.

yep. And there are a lot of shitheads in America.

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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If Rapinoe makes her pen (and the Swede still misses) then Smith and O'Hara wouldn't have had to take theirs. There was increased pressure on Smith because the taker in front of her missed. 

So while you can blame all three Rapinoe missed the most important one. Then Smith, then O'Hara who should have doubly never even gone to the spot.

If you're playing the blame game I might go 50/40/10. Or blame the coach for having Rapinoe take 4th to begin with. 

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10848

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it's great to see my entire oeuvre from this tournament in this forum written in a nice way by a professional....

+++

in particular, he closes with a nice summary of "TURBO SOCCER BAD":

"U.S. Soccer can only play a limited role in affecting the youth soccer industry's negative impact on grassroots player development, although it can set a standard with youth national team selections, and it has no influence on the college game — a great and much-appreciated contributor to the rise of American women's soccer but a driver of over-valuing athleticism.

But U.S. Soccer can reevaluate what in 2020 it deemed a good idea by instructing its entire U.S. national team staff — men, women, boys and girls — to adopt the same playing style, an "our way" principles of play. Much of the emphasis is on relentless pressing, playing quickly, and a trio of midfielders who can cover ground.

At this juncture, the women's program needs creative playmakers and players at all positions with a level of ball control and passing efficiency that we're seeing even from the newer arrivals at women's soccer's world stage. It doesn't need is to be told how many midfielders to field or how quickly to play.

From what we've seen from the teams already at this Women's World Cup, the U.S. women's program would be best off navigating that challenge without U.S. Soccer's profoundly Northern European-influenced playing style edict."

Even more than creative playmakers, we need players that can hold the ball, see the field, and read the game.  The men's side of the house started teaching this when massive youth clubs hired coaching directors for all levels down to u-9 with a mandate to teach for 8 years before going in to "must win tournament model" at u-15.  This happened around 2008 and now we are rocking.  This will happen on the wimmen's side of the house soon.

+++

The only thing he doesn't do is call out the Fed for agreeing to the karma-krushing bonfire to the soccer gods which was the ARROGANT ad campaigns.  The juju was all fucked up before we even got on the plane, and before all of the other problems had a chance to cook together onsite.

But he does cite the ad campaigns first and foremost as the #1 problem which they absolutely were.

Enjoy.

+++

woitalla

silver linings

Spoiler


They're having fun around the world now with the FOX Sports commercial that asked, “The whole world is wondering, what’s it going to take to stop this U.S. team?”

The ad's various fictional scenarios include an Italian kidnapping plot, evil German scientists, an Asian time-machine scheme, and fans from various other countries coming up with suggestions deemed futile for ending the two-time defending champion's reign at the 2023 Women's World Cup.

The U.S. women for years appeared in commercials and enjoyed lucrative endorsement deals, such as Megan Rapinoe, whose recent Nike ad depicts her as an unstoppable comic book super hero.

Another pre-World Cup commercial from Nike featured Sophia Smith.

The "Nice to Beat You" ad shows an opponent on a game-bound bus watching on her phone as Smith announces, "We're really hungry for that championship, and that's what you'll see on the pitch." By the time the fictional U.S. foe walks on the field, she's sweating with fear of playing against the USA.

One imagines professional athletes can distinguish between marketing hype and reality, but it's also likely that the American players did arrive Down Under believing they were the best in the world. Confidence can be an asset, and the USWNT's winning tradition has no doubt contributed to victories in the past as its players forged ahead with faith in themselves while the nerves of less experienced opponents were more likely to fray.

But I could also imagine that the U.S. players — especially the younger ones who grew up admiring a USWNT when only a small handful of nations ever presented a challenge — receiving a jolt of dismay when they couldn't dribble past unknown Portuguese players or take the ball away from them.

Smith was the 22-year-old NWSL MVP, but when she featured in that commercial she was headed to her first adult world championship. 

Among the silver linings of the USA's earliest exit in Women's World Cup history is, one hopes, it won't be as burdened with such marketing hype in the future. And after exiting after going nearly four hours without scoring, it won't underestimate the challenge of a world championship’s early rounds.

Another problem with the USWNT is its history of sticking with veterans no matter their drop in form.

Going into the USA's round-of-16 game against Sweden, its center forward, the 34-year-old Alex Morgan, had played 243 minutes over the three group games without hitting the net on a dozen shots, including a failed penalty kick and prime chances to break the scoreless deadlock with Portugal. Yet Coach Vlatko Andonovski started Morgan against the Swedes and kept her on until the ninth minute of overtime.

Andonovski replaced Morgan with the 38-year-old Rapinoe, even though her appearance off the bench in the scoreless tie with Portugal included a series of passes to the opponent and missing nearly the whole ball as she whiffed on a stoppage-time shot. Against the Swedes, Rapinoe took over set plays and her woeful delivery on the kind of opportunities the USWNT once used to win games foreshadowed her missed shootout attempt.

Andonovski may have brought a record number of newcomers to this World Cup, but sticking with Morgan and Rapinoe proved he over-valued players' performances of the past while he made limited use of the bench. This despite announcing upon his roster selection that, "We have a roster with depth and versatility and that will help us take on all the challenges that will be coming our way.”

He used only one of his five available subs in the 1-1 tie with the Netherlands. He brought Rapinoe on in the 61st minute against Portugal and didn't sub again until the 84th minute, when he made two switches. For what purpose he brought on two players six minutes into stoppage time for a minute of action is anybody's guess.

During the Sweden stalemate, Andonovski made only one regulation-time substitution, swapping right wingers, Lynn Williams for Trinity Rodman, instead of a more attack-minded midfielder. One thing that seemed obvious amid the U.S. group stage struggles was that its backline would be well capable of coping with a Swedish offense, yet Andonovski opted for a conservative midfield. Ashley Sanchez never got off the bench in te tournament.

The 18-year-old Alyssa Thompson played the final 15 minutes of the 3-0 win over Vietnam, and was one of the stoppage-time subs against Portugal. Hardly enough time to test if she could help in the knockout stage.

How Andonovski, whose first big tournament in charge was the bronze-medal showing at the 2021 Olympics, approached the 2023 World Cup and the historically early exit are enough to ensure he'll be replaced. But coaching is hardly the big issue with the state of the USWNT. While he should have been able to orchestrate a win over Sweden, it's difficult to imagine the USA would have gone much farther. And even if it did, it would have only made it easier to ignore the long-term challenges American women's soccer faces.

First and far most are the skill deficiencies when compared to other nations that are finally starting to support the women's game, or for example, the revitalized Japanese. (See my piece: "Portugal delivered yet another reminder of the USA's ball skills problem.")

The U.S. women's national team program has had a magnificent history, including its influence on the growth of girls and women's soccer domestically and abroad. That its superiority would wane is in some ways a product of its own success, as it set the standard for the rest of the world while inspiring competition, and inevitable because of the nature of world soccer — women's soccer is now truly a worldwide sport — makes it near impossible for one nation to dominate for a long stretch.

That the USA got knocked out so early and failed so severely -- one win in four games -- is probably a benefit to the program in the long run. Eliminating the assumption of being the best will spare U.S. teams of ever arriving overconfident and in the new era, the aura of veterans will no longer stifle the integration of incoming talent.

U.S. Soccer can only play a limited role in affecting the youth soccer industry's negative impact on grassroots player development, although it can set a standard with youth national team selections, and it has no influence on the college game — a great and much-appreciated contributor to the rise of American women's soccer but a driver of over-valuing athleticism. 

But U.S. Soccer can reevaluate what in 2020 it deemed a good idea by instructing its entire U.S. national team staff — men, women, boys and girls — to adopt the same playing style, an "our way" principles of play. Much of the emphasis is on relentless pressing, playing quickly, and a trio of midfielders who can cover ground.

At this juncture, the women's program needs creative playmakers and players at all positions with a level of ball control and passing efficiency that we're seeing even from the newer arrivals at women's soccer's world stage. It doesn't need is to be told how many midfielders to field or how quickly to play.

From what we've seen from the teams already at this Women's World Cup, the U.S. women's program would be best off navigating that challenge without U.S. Soccer's profoundly Northern European-influenced playing style edict.

Katelyn Mulcahy—FIFA/FIFA via Getty Images
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41 comments about "Silver linings from the debacle Down Under and USWNT challenges ahead".
  • uffe gustafsson replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:22 p.m.

    Frank this discussion we have had many times.
    in an urban area like Bay Area the availability of any field to play on is impossible if you not part of a club.
    even our park fields are used by the little ones.
    the idea of a web site for pickup games might work in a small town but certainly not in a big city like oakland or SF.
    We simply don't have the place to do it.
    that said clearly soccer is an enormous sport especially for girls and that's a good thing but also put great strain on any field availability. Small sided games are the staple of what we coaches do, not only is it good for dribbling skills but we mostly have a qtr part of the field because you have 4 teams on a field at best you get a half a field to use.
    that goes for clubs and high school fields.
    we have american football and baseball using the same fields.
    I do have pet peeve and this goes to the pay to play, school districts and park and rec. have most fields and they charge big money to use em. Like army base in alameda the club have to pay for the up keep of those fields and that cost real money. It's the largest expense for any club.
    so pay to play have to be there until we decide that any public field is free to use and city pay for up keep.
    go on and see what your club pay for field use and you understand why club fees are what they are.
    my nephew in Sweden coach in the Gothenburg and they pay nothing for the field the city is in charge of the fields and part of their budget, those kids pay a fraction of what we pay here to play on a club.

  • frank schoon replied, August 8, 2023 at 7:27 p.m.

    Uffe, a quarter part of a field is very big to me you can do with even a smaller size

  • Mark Buckley, August 8, 2023 at 9:46 a.m.

    We just need a new manager, he clearly has an "Ashley" problem. The manager didn't pick Ashley Hatch for the squad, and he brought Ashley Sanchez but didn't play her. Clearly I'm a Washington Sprit supporter, but I knew when he left Hatch off the roster we were in trouble. I hate to be right.

  • frank schoon replied, August 8, 2023 at 1:07 p.m.

    Mark, Come ON!!! You need to see the total picture....I wish it was just one particular player where our problem lies...it's the whole damn structure...

  • Scott Chaney, August 8, 2023 at 9:53 a.m.

    He's GOT TO GO! Nobody survives all those bad decisions. Clean house, go young and fast and start now! Goodbye Rapinoe, Morgan, Ertz, and yes, Dunn. 

  • frank schoon replied, August 8, 2023 at 1:08 p.m.

    Yeah, Scott ...it's the coach and as soon he leaves we'll be back on top......

  • Santiago 1314 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:32 a.m.

    NOT

  • Perry McIntyre, August 8, 2023 at 10:03 a.m.

    Lots of good points, Mike. I certainly agree going out at this stage may well be better than being summarily dissected by such an in-form Japan.

    One could also look to the lack of age-group success the past decade as a failure to deliver the next generation of players able to seize the moment and win the big matches. In other words, the writing was on the wall for this result at the 2023 WWC.

    While the injury to Mal Swanson was definitely a contributing factor to the side's performance at this tournament, the shocking inability to finish attacks is indicative of overall inadequate skills development, IMHO.

    Sadly, the USSF, like seemingly everything else in our new world, has become so politicized, it may be impossible to regain the past levels of the USWNT's success.

  • Ben Myers, August 8, 2023 at 10:14 a.m.

    Mike, Fox Sports talking heads and the ads were simply jingoistic. They do not make anyone proud. The Fox Sports announcers and personalities rival MLS in the category of most awful. Dellacamera is the worst, babbling nonsense instead of calling the plays. Strong is marginally better.  Lalas opens his mouth without engaging his brain.  The Fox Sports announcement of these luminaries may have been written by a summer intern.

    https://www.foxsports.com/presspass/blog/2023/07/18/fox-sports-unveils-match-assignments-for-the-fifa-womens-world-cup-australia-new-zealand-2023-group-stage/#:~:text=Esteemed play-by-play announcer,the network's top announcer pairing.

    As others have pointed out, Andonovski has gotta go, the sooner the better.

    The USSF powers-that-be need to gaze at their navels and come up with winning strategies to improve the technical training of both female and male players in this country, at all levels from grassroots to club to high school to college to professional. The inability to finish stands out starkly, both genders.  USMNT 3 goals in 2022, and USWNT 4 goals, three against a weak team. Maybe we need to spend more time teaching players to shoot and finish (They are different!) and to set up teammates for high percentage shots?  How many cutbacks did the USWNT even attempt?  A couple?  Maybe three? How effective were its crosses, corners and free kicks? Not.

    Maybe USSF should charter a plane and take the young members on the USWNT to Europe, along with those whom Vlad rejected for tyrouts with clubs in the Big 5 leagues? 

    Baby, we got a long way to go.

  • Santiago 1314 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:38 a.m.

    You Make a Good Point.

    I wonder if Any of our Kids go to those Weeke Long "Star Striker" Camps like I used to Teach At.
    Just getting a Few Shots a Week, In a Session with Midfielders, Defenders, is NOT going to Hone your Finishing Skills..
    But, If you are on a Pay-to-Play Team, especially one that Teaches Tiki-Taka,,, 
    Little Susies Mom is going to Complain, if her Bench Sitting Baby doesn't get to do Shooting Drills also.
    When do you ever get to Really work on Finishing in these Environments.???

  • Joseph Campos, August 8, 2023 at 11:32 a.m.

    It is unfortunate that the structural and cultural deficiencies in the American youth soccer system only become a real topic of discussion when it reaches the national team level and it is too obvious to deny or sweep under the rug.  We all know the uncomfortable truth that at the youth levels, US Club Soccer and US Youth Soccer compete in the creation, marketing and sale of closed "elite" leagues that promise recruiting platforms and showcase tournaments and are focused mainly on large youth clubs that can afford the expensive fees.  These large youth clubs, armed with an enormous marketing advantage, no longer need to emphasize the quality of their football education nor even provide it.  ECNL will guarantee a steady stream of pathway/platform focused kids and parents, guaranteeing massive revenue and incentivizing clubs and coaches to shortcut real player education on fundamental skills and knowledge.  It is no wonder then that the "product" on offer at these showcases is well below the global standard.  And of course, ECNL is wildly popular in girls soccer, so the skills/knowledge deficit impacts them more.

    For those clubs unable to get into ECNL, other "elite" leagues like Elite64, Elite Academy and GA are available to help them offer  gullible players/parents an "elite" pathway/platform.  It's an arms race and real player education/development is the casualty.

    The result is that we have allowed these large USSF affiliates, which are in reality insurance companies, to convert youth soccer into a Culture of Leagues rather than a Culture of Clubs.  Instead of pursuing quality of education and choosing clubs on that basis, players at an early age pursue access to platforms/showcases.  

     

    This is an uncomfortable topic and many of us have been urging reform for years.  It is well past time to shut down the elite-league industrial complex, return League admi Ist ration to state associations and mandate that all leagues are open to all clubs.  In other words, massively deemphasize league and massively reemphasize the importance of clubs so that fundamental requirements of quality education by highly qualified coaches becomes what players and parents seek.

    I recommend the recent article on Yahoo Sports that partially unmasks this "elite" league debacle.  Again, this has been going on for years, and everyone really involved in youth soccer knows it.

  • humble 1 replied, August 8, 2023 at 11:58 a.m.

    So true what you write.  The challenge is the leagues and their member mega club fight tooth and nail to preserve their cash cow.  The irony is that coaches and parents are scrwd in this platform.  An elite 5% are making comfy 6 figure salaries while having zero accoutability.  How do we effect change in this context?  

  • "Roy Turner", August 8, 2023 at 11:46 a.m.

    The fact that this article, as well as everyone who's responded to it, has valid points on some level, just indicates that the issues we face are vast and in some cases almost impossible to overcome. The USSF would have to make some hard decisions about how soccer is structured in this country going forward that would most assuredly lead to kicking, screaming, and lawsuits. No better time than now as the past fifty or sixty years are probably better off residing in a file marked "Archives".

  • Ted Morehouse, August 8, 2023 at 2:31 p.m.

    That is quite a reach to conclude that the silver lining of this failure is to lose the arrogance and painful marketing of this team as the best in the world .  We are now, solidly, an "also ran" who dare not assume they will even qualify for the big events.  

  • Dan Gautieri replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:04 p.m.

    Unfortunately, the US will continue to easily qualify for events because CONCACAF is not a strong region compared to Europe. The Olympic and World Cup qualifying is never in doubt because only Canada poses a threat, and the US typically plays Canada in the finals of a tournament after both teams have already qualified. And Canada didn't look very good. Fortunately Jamaica is rising.
    The teams in Europe benefit from pushing one another. The European championship has become a major event, and the lack of quality teams in CONCACAF means that the US doesn't play the kind of important matches between World Cups and Olympics that the European teams (and even South American teams) get to play. She Believes? I don't think so

  • Ted Morehouse, August 8, 2023 at 2:34 p.m.

    The trouble flag to me was when I heard that Rapinoe was on the team.  Everyone with eyes and a brain knew she was finished as a world class player.  She was like an albatross we had to drag around.  And her presence, of course, eliminated the spot Ashley Hatch deserved.  The coach was a coward in his selection of personnel.  Truthfully, only Julie Ertz ( from the old school players ) earned a spot. 

  • James Madison, August 8, 2023 at 3:03 p.m.

    The England -Nigeria match made Mike's concluding point. The US team that played against Sweden would have defeted the England team that struggled to deal with a pesky Nigeria that failed to score largely because it ran out of gas in the late stages and was reduced to lobbing the ball into the penalty area.

  • David Ruder, August 8, 2023 at 3:08 p.m.

    Soccer-Mom player developement can only go so far. To compete in this new Wonans soccer world, US needs to switch to the tried and true Euro developement model. 

  • John Bauman, August 8, 2023 at 3:10 p.m.

    I hope that when they start training the next group of players they will teach them the Natinal Anthem of the coutry they are representing.as well.  Most of the people I know were rooting against the USA and happy that they lost.

  • Santiago 1314 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:26 a.m.

    Sad, But True.!!!

  • Santiago 1314 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:51 a.m.

    Naomi Girma is said to be Future Captain of this Team;
    YET, she is one of the Players that DOESN'T put her Hand Over Here Heart during National Anthem.
    I would Think that THAT would be the 1st Question to Ask a CAPTAIN.!!!

  • Donal Mahon, August 8, 2023 at 3:30 p.m.

    Incredible that after Soccer America for the most part ignores women/girls soccer, Mike now weights in with opoinions on fixing the problem.  Says somewthing when the people writing in "comments" have better insight into the problems than a professional soccer journalist.  This team had the talent to go all the way but lacked depth it woud probably need due to the incompentnece of the coach.  His system was designed to fail the key players.  The team needs a competent caoch, not just a good old boy.  It cannot win on talent and athleticism alone any more. USSF can have, and is prinmaryily rsponsible for, player development in the US.  Pay-for-play has got to go.  Coaching clinics have got to emphasize technical skill and combination play through Under 16.  

  • Bob Ashpole replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:35 p.m.

    Mike is not merely a soccer jounalist. He is soccer people. You may disagree with him, but he deserves respect and consideration.

  • Santiago 1314 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:32 a.m.

    Sorry Donal..
    I've been coming here to SA for about 40 years... 
    SA has Done MORE Than enough Coverage of XX Teams.

    It IS A BUSINESS Also...

    BUTTs in the Seats...
    CLICKS on the Internet...
    EYES on the TV...
    That is what Drives Content...

    That Drives Advertising, which Drives Profits...
    I guess you would have them GO UNDER for "THE EQUITY CAUSE".!!!

  • Patrick Duffy, August 8, 2023 at 4:11 p.m.

    There is also a challenge with the expectations of parents and players in youth soccer.  We're Americans.  We expect immediate gratification and success.  "....In a week, maybe two, they'll make you a star...."  "Send your kid to our summer soccer camp with this big name college coach and he'll make you a great player in a week or two."  You don't learn ball skills in a week or two, or even a year.  Coerver work?  Boooorrrrringgg.  Hey, I get it that most youth players aren't going to play in college, much less professionally, so they don't have the motivation to do the hard stuff, the stuff that takes 10,000 reps to master.  And that's why we need coaches who don't just see the their players as interchangable jig saw puzzle pieces, who don't just stand there yelling inane stuff like "It's got to be better!"  

  • Bob Ashpole, August 8, 2023 at 5:08 p.m.

    There have been soccer people demanding reforms in our player development system literally since the 1970s. All consistently calling for a greater focus of ball skills and fundamentals while suggesting different ways improvements could be made.

    Me personally I think soccer got worse during the youth explosion after the 1970s. We had thousands of parent youth coaches who had never played the game teaching their warped views of the game. That meant a whole generation of youth players became a new generation of parent coaches that were taught how to play badly.

    Good intentions, yes, but bad influences. On top of that private club sports, all sports not just soccer, became a for profit business which conflicted the what should have been the objectives of player development and youth sports. Their primary motive was profits. For instance children were taught and encouraged to cheat instead of being taught how to play fairly. This bad coaching robs the children of the opportunity to learn to play the game. No wonder droves of players quit after age 13 and our older players lack basic fundamentals. 

    It isn't just soccer. I have seen coaches complain that they have to teach professional baseball players fundamentals that they should have been taught as a youth player.

    We recognized this is a problem long, long, ago. But USSF has different priorities. So they may pay some lip service and claim they are progressing, but nothing really changes over the decades.

  • humble 1 replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:02 p.m.

    Where you write 'our player develoment system' - this is wrong - we do not have one.  This is our challenge - we think we do - but we do not.  If we do - please point me to it.  As Joseph Campos writes above - we have a series of closed league systems.  This is the problem.  The W and M YNT have player ID programs - but - as you know well - they do not develop - they do not have the time.  On the mens side - with MLS Next many MLS teams have dropped the number of teams they host - several now only scholarship U15 and U17.  ECNL - same for boys and girls and same for MLS Next - leagues not a development platforms.  Mix in what Frank Schoon writes above - and many times prior - our licensing system is not producing coaches that can teach technical skills.  I have a friend that just completed his 'B' license - it was 100% - 100% - tactics.  The problem for the ladies - the rest of the soccer world is plugging their ladies into their ID and development platforms which are build on single pyramid open leagues.  If we continue to operate the league based system - we will get the same result - meanwhile - on the ladies side - the ex-usa programs will continue to improve as they are all relatively new - so they will almost naturally improve.  On the mens side we will have periodic singular players emerging that are either foreign developed (half of our MNT starters) or players that had some bespoke feature or charactartistic in their development process.  Meanwhile - there will be a huge cash infusion to the USSF with all the upcoming events - regardless of whether they start to develop players or not.  We have a long way to go and a lot of heavy lifting.  

  • Bob Ashpole replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:21 p.m.

    You are correct humble 1, once again. 

    I can think of a few Army terms to describe it, but I don't want to be banned from this site for using foul language. :(

  • frank schoon replied, August 8, 2023 at 7:37 p.m.

    Humble, Exactly. Tactics ,tactics, tactics for the B license....This is why the Coaching Academy Is a JOKE!!!

  • Bob Ashpole replied, August 8, 2023 at 10:36 p.m.

    It isn't even good tactics.

  • frank schoon replied, August 9, 2023 at 6:42 a.m.

    " tactics for dummies", LOL

  • Michael Whalen, August 8, 2023 at 5:24 p.m.

    There is plenty of young talent in this country. The sky is not falling on women's soccer in this country. We heard all the same things during the 16 year drought of not winning a world cup. With that said, the girls youth scene is a mess and if anyone thinks it's is going to change, I have a bridge to sell you. When MLS teams started taking youth development seriously, we started seeing better young men develop and the European clubs took notice. Now we have the deepest and most talented men's pool ever. Will the NWSL follow? I highly doubt it because it costs too much money, but the smart teams will build out an entire youth system because it's best for their team, the sport in the US, and most importantly, it's best for their bottom line. With 14 teams (16 in 2026) that's enough to create a very strong pipeline to the national team and comparable to the leagues in England, Spain and France. The federation will have to subsidize it until NWSL clubs are on better financial footing. Will it?

    The fed can make some changes now but it won't because it's too dependent on all these youth leagues bringing in money to the national organization. Remember, all of these different leagues are sanctioned by the federation. The fed has the power to force consolidation, to not approve affiliation renewals unless changes are made, etc. but that takes courage and I don't think the leaders of USSF have the will, so let the NWSL build a much better model and the best players will go there.

  • Patrick Duffy, August 8, 2023 at 7:45 p.m.

    You have to understand the Federation's role here.  USSF is getting a pittance from the  youth clubs.  USSF's money comes primarily from national tem game broadcast rights and World Cup money.  
    Structurally, USSF is not going to force the youth to do anything.  This is a member driven organization and 'the youth' have about one-third of the votes.  And the youth vote is controlled by USYSA member state associations, i.e. highly involved parents, who lose interest when their kid stops playing.  It truly is a federation of member organizations, not a top down hierarchy, as much as some USSF staff would like to think it is.  We have met the enemy and he is us.  

  • humble 1 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:03 a.m.

    Patrick, you are 100% correct.  I do not know the numbers - but it was clear as todays clear sky - after the copa America centenario payday in 2016 - they say on $100M for years - until most of it was rightly paid out to the ladies.  Let's not forget folks - the ladies did not have DA until 2018/19.  From 2007 to 2018 - it was boys only.  USSF was xfering around $10M per to DA - which was esentially MLS Academies.  Remember SUMA - and the MLS on the USSF Board.  See how most MLS Academies have only U15 and U17 academies now - the MLS was using USSF to finance their Academies - and there was non for the ladies.  Good case could be made - that this was a factor in the exit from WC.  Anyway - I digress.  Yes Patrick - you are 100% correct - the Youth Organizations that run the closed Leagues - they do what they want - and many of the 501c3's are run as cash cows - paying very little to coaches - pittence - literally - putting coaches with 4 teams - over 100 players to 'coach' / 'develop' - impossible!  - and paying a since DC and the founder of the 501c3 - nice 6 figure incomes.  They will fight tooth and nail to keep things this way - they are the youth clubs.  There are exceptions - of course - but the rule is in many major metros - what I right.  I am doubtful USSF will be able overcome this behemoth - it will be on parents and future clubs - to go over, thru, under, around.  C'mon! 

  • humble 1 replied, August 9, 2023 at 10:06 a.m.

    sorry about my spell/type - it is a stream - made with fat fingers - without time for editing.  Good day to all.  Fight for our youth - they have no advocate in the USSF.  It's up to us.  

  • Santiago 1314, August 9, 2023 at 11:14 a.m.

    I guess I Missed the Point of this Article: Wasn't it Adverstising that "Back Fired".???

    In the Interest of Equal Pay; I think ALL the N.I.L./Commercial Money should be Split EQUALLY between the Players.!!!!
    After All that's what EQUITY IS... Money.!!! NOT Rights... Equal Rights is Different than Equity... Equity is CAPITAL (Money) you have in Something... Like a HOUSE.!!!

    Let's see the Ladies Scramble for the Exits on that Topic...
    "Equal Pay for Me, But NOT for Thee"

  • Santiago 1314, August 9, 2023 at 11:25 a.m.

    Wasn't sure if anyone saw my Post at the End of Game Report Sweden, so I Re-Post here.

    (I think Uffe had Posted that the Girls were going to get 60k each from FIFA, That's a No-No.. ALL Payments have to go to the Federations)

    OK Uffe, 
    I got "The Numbers" 
    According to JUST WOMEN'S SPORTS article: Emma Hruby 8/7/23

    FIFA pay to USSF; $3,250,000 (Round of 16 Loser Pay Out)
    According to CBA; USSF gets only 10% = $325,000
    That leaves $2,925,000 for Players; this has to be Divided by 2(with the Men's Team)
    That equals $1,462,500 ÷ 23 = $63,587.oo (Thousand) per player.

    I am sure there must be some sort of Side Deals in the CBA about Which Players Get Which Percentage based on Starts, Goals, etc... Maybe.??? 

    Also, do any of the "CUT" Players get a %... Like the Baseball Players that Don't Make the World Series Roster, still get SOME cut of the Winnings and a Ring.

    Also, How will you Divide up the Money.??? Wouldn't you have to Wait until the End of the Fiscal Year.??? Then Divide up the Total Income from the 2 Teams and then Disburse it on some Formula.??? 

    Bob.??? You got Time to Delve into the CBA.??? Your the Resident Lawyer here.!!!

  1. frank schoon, August 8, 2023 at 9:30 a.m.

    The only silver lining I hope to see is that after having seen how we play against our ever improving competitors, is that we begin to recognize our faults related to our player development which needs to improve.

    I think the USSF needs to understand that having a coaching license does not improve player development as seen after 50years of US soccer....The better players tend to rise to the top is due more to innate talent of the player than anything else taught by so-called license coach....

    The USSF needs to understand when dealing with youth soccer, it's mainly about TECHNICAL SKILLS, that most coaches are at weak demonstrating....Therefore licensing coaches, with all the theoretical clap-trap does in NO WAY improve the technical abilities of the coach to teach SKILLS AND TECHNIQUE...

    The USSF needs to understand doing technical drills and exercises is only a very small part of learning skills  for the application there of can no way be matched to what youth LEARN BY WATCHING  better players how they do it in small sided games.  Kids miss the HOWs, WHYs and WHEN's because youth lack playing MIXED AGES, pickup or spend mostly  playing small sided games in practice.

    Why isn't there a website for PICKUP games going on in communities. A kid wants to play pickup or just wants to kick a ball around with another individual, can do so by going to the website and make his request known or find a spot where youth whatever the age want to play....

    If continue the way we are going in our player development we will further meet international disappointments.....





     

  2. cony konstin replied, August 8, 2023 at 10 a.m.

    Frank this goes even more deeper than our women losing a game. it all stems to one thing... The pay to play model and spending more money on showcases, nice uniforms, fancy curriculum and of course $450 cleats. Just more more smoke n mirrors and gimmicks. As long as soccer in the US is controlled by imposters, con artist, fraudsters, marketers, and charlatans soccer in US will continue to be treated like cheap daycare, the feel of being in an exclusive country club, a hobby but never will it be a way of life. In the US you must pay to play and if you are financially poor you won't get an opportunity to be in the country club... and if you have money and are good you will have to pay extra. Our priorities for kids are ass backwards. Sports programs, music programs and the rest of the art programs should be free for all kids. When we start doing that for kids than sports and arts will become a way of life for our future generations. 

  3. frank schoon replied, August 8, 2023 at 1:04 p.m.

    Cony, Impostors???? You're being too nice....

  4. uffe gustafsson replied, August 8, 2023 at 6:22 p.m.

    Frank this discussion we have had many times.
    in an urban area like Bay Area the availability of any field to play on is impossible if you not part of a club.
    even our park fields are used by the little ones.
    the idea of a web site for pickup games might work in a small town but certainly not in a big city like oakland or SF.
    We simply don't have the place to do it.
    that said clearly soccer is an enormous sport especially for girls and that's a good thing but also put great strain on any field availability. Small sided games are the staple of what we coaches do, not only is it good for dribbling skills but we mostly have a qtr part of the field because you have 4 teams on a field at best you get a half a field to use.
    that goes for clubs and high school fields.
    we have american football and baseball using the same fields.
    I do have pet peeve and this goes to the pay to play, school districts and park and rec. have most fields and they charge big money to use em. Like army base in alameda the club have to pay for the up keep of those fields and that cost real money. It's the largest expense for any club.
    so pay to play have to be there until we decide that any public field is free to use and city pay for up keep.
    go on and see what your club pay for field use and you understand why club fees are what they are.
    my nephew in Sweden coach in the Gothenburg and they pay nothing for the field the city is in charge of the fields and part of their budget, those kids pay a fraction of what we pay here to play on a club.

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11643

Posted
Posted

My kids all play club soccer. Not claiming they are elite or on a track for anything special, just stating that we are neck deep in youth club soccer.

 

Player development is wildly variable.  If you find a good group of coaches cling to them like grim death.

TONS of grifters promising the world to naïve/wishful parents.

 

 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9824

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, ztejas said:

If Rapinoe makes her pen (and the Swede still misses) then Smith and O'Hara wouldn't have had to take theirs. There was increased pressure on Smith because the taker in front of her missed. 

So while you can blame all three Rapinoe missed the most important one. Then Smith, then O'Hara who should have doubly never even gone to the spot.

If you're playing the blame game I might go 50/40/10. Or blame the coach for having Rapinoe take 4th to begin with. 

Blame has to go on all of them for not taking care of business in regular time. 
 

Penalties are a crap shoot and anything can happen. 
 

50/50 coaches + players

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10848

Posted
Posted

the following is from the deseret news so the fascist false-equivalencies have to be taken with a grain of salt

but i'm posting this for those upthread who tried to maintain that "Rapinoe is a midfielder"

she came on for a striker that went 0 for 12

she took the roster spot of a 28-year-old striker

we didn't take a backup #9

Spoiler
U.S. Soccer snubbed Ashley Hatch. In hindsight it didn’t deserve the former BYU star The United States Women’s National Team lost to Sweden in most embarrassing World Cup performance in history.
SHARE U.S. Soccer snubbed Ashley Hatch. In hindsight it didn’t deserve the former BYU star

[Image: United States’ Ashley Hatch reacts after a play against Nigeria during the second half of an international friendly soccer match, Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2022, in Washington. (AP Photo/Julio Cortez)]

 

United States’ Ashley Hatch reacts after a play against Nigeria during the second half of an international friendly soccer match, Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2022, in Washington. (AP Photo/Julio Cortez)

AP

The United States Women’s National Team could have used Ashley Hatch.

In the end, however, the former BYU star should be glad to have been far away from this team’s humiliation.

The four-time World Cup champions made an embarrassing early exit in this year’s tournament in a loss to Sweden on penalty kicks Sunday.

The USA had no offense. No heart. Just politics.

Just like the rest of the time they’d spent on the world stage in this affair.

This team really could have used Hatch, who has proven to be a key cog in creating an efficient attack as a center forward.

When the roster came out earlier this year, the snub of Hatch made headlines across the country because of her National Women’s Soccer League performances, her consistency and her experience.

Wrote CBS Sports about Hatch’s absence back on June 22: “Her omission from the roster may be a head-scratcher for some as they debate who the backup No. 9 will be on the team. She’s been a top scorer in the league, and a frequent part of USWNT camps over the last two years, but is not headed to the tournament.”

Hatch had the resume and time with the team. Also, she probably would have avoided getting mired down on all the garbage dog-and-pony media show this USA team apparently cared more about than the game.

Went nearly four hours of game time without a goal, while leaving at home one of the country’s best goal scorers.

Took a 38-year old forward who didn’t play well, and an 18-year old forward who hardly played, while leaving at home a 28-year old forward in her prime and in form.… https://t.co/aueoojFm2I

— Greg Wrubell (@gregwrubell) August 6, 2023

In 2021 Hatch had a career-best NWSL season with the Washington Spirit, helping her team to the league title and winning the Golden Boot in the same year. This year prior to the World Cup, she played five games with the USWNT, scoring one goal.

In retrospect, the honor and opportunities Hatch would have gained by being part of this team may have been overshadowed by the stain this USA team brought upon itself with its sideshows and disappointment in representing the country.

This was the worst performance by a USA women’s team in World Cup history. 

Why would Hatch want to be a part of that?

Well, she is a competitor, and that fueled her.

But now?

Ashley, be glad you were not part of this stink.

This 2023 team was more concerned with taking selfies, making political statements and fueling the far-left woke virtue-signaling agenda than putting the ball in the net, diving for loose balls or acting like world champions out on the field.

And that’s from at least one former teammate who saw it all coming. 

For what?

Well, for an 18-year old with little experience (Alyssa Thompson) who had rarely played and a 38-year-old (Megan Rapinoe) who didn’t play well, according to Greg Wrubell, voice of BYU soccer. 

Hatch, Wrubell accurately pointed out, at 28 years of age, in the prime of her career was left home — unselected.

Stupidity.

This will be the legacy of the 2023 U.S. women, a conglomeration of uninspired, self-interest peddling athletes who were obviously more concerned with their political activism than performing.

By the time the USWNT lost to Sweden, it had been four hours of goal-less USA offense — something everyone got used to witnessing from this team.

Fightless, uninspired, gutless players going through the motions of disrespectful kneeling when their country’s national anthem was played.

Why can’t we just watch sports these days?  Why do we have to have political agendas shoved down our throats?

Former team member Carlie Lloyd could see it all coming a long time ago.

Lloyd, who has been providing commentary of the World Cup on Fox Sports, ripped into the USWNT after lackluster performances against Portugal and the Netherlands.

She had promised to be candid and honest in her analysis. Boy, was she.

According to Yahoo Sports,“ She (Lloyd) ripped into players and “question[ed] their heart” at halftime of a 1-1 draw with the Netherlands last Thursday. After Tuesday’s draw with Portugal, she called them “lackluster” and “uninspiring.”

“Then she saw the postgame videos, of players dancing and taking selfies with fans, and “I have never witnessed something like that,” she said on air. “There’s a difference between being respectful of the fans and saying hello to your family, but to be dancing, to be smiling” — she was disturbed.”

Then came the loss to Sweden — a copycat act of sputtering soccer from the most storied team in the world. 

Said Lloyd, “Like, I lived it; I saw it,” she told Yahoo Sports.

“I’m basically just saying what I see because I was a part of it. And the last couple years, when I was retiring, you could just feel that love and that hunger and that humbleness just kinda dissipating a bit.”

“It was not a good environment,” she added. “You didn’t see people fighting on the field, fighting for every loose ball, sprinting. And that is a reason why we didn’t win the Olympics.”

Yes, the USWNT could have used Hatch, sans the social activism this team made a priority as it circled the drain.

If not for Hatch’s offensive skills, it really could have used her common sense and perspective.

This team didn’t deserve Hatch. 

 

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

Posted
Posted

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38165137/uswnt-big-mouths-slammed-netherlands-star-beerensteyn
 

Quote

From the first moment I heard they were out, I was just like, 'Yes! Bye!" the Juventus attacker told reporters on Thursday. "From the start of the tournament, they had really big mouths and were already talking about the final.

"I was thinking you first have to show it on the pitch before you talk [big]. I'm not being rude in that way, I still have a lot of respect for them, but now they're out of the tournament, and for me, it's a relief, and for them, it's something they will have to take with them in the future.

"Don't start to talk about something that is far away. I hope they will learn from that."

I’m a connoisseur of pettiness, but what the fuck has this motherfucker won?

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6174

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Kermit said:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38165137/uswnt-big-mouths-slammed-netherlands-star-beerensteyn
 

I’m a connoisseur of pettiness, but what the fuck has this motherfucker won?

Eh, he's not an American and, he is speaking like a fan. Is it petty? Yes, it is but, that's what fans do.

His country's team competes against America. We all rooted against the Soviet Union when we were kids, and I'm sure today there are teams you root against. He gets a pass from me on this.

 

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Eh, he's not an American and, he is speaking like a fan. Is it petty? Yes, it is but, that's what fans do.

His country's team competes against America. We all rooted against the Soviet Union when we were kids, and I'm sure today there are teams you root against. He gets a pass from me on this.

 

It’s a player on their women’s team.

Edited by Kermit
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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12862

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Kermit said:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38165137/uswnt-big-mouths-slammed-netherlands-star-beerensteyn
 

I’m a connoisseur of pettiness, but what the fuck has this motherfucker won?

This. I read this comment this morning and I was thinking "She's talking an awful lot for a woman on a team likely to get knocked out tonight and has ZERO World Cups."

Edited by Captain Ron
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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6174

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4 minutes ago, Kermit said:

It’s a player on their women’s team.

Season 7 Oops GIF by Workaholics

I read the story, and even looked at the picture. 

Actually, I think it is even more okay that a player said that. More than just a fan so she has skin in the game.

If you talk the talk, and our team has talked a good deal over the decades, then, when you lose people will have comments.

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ztejas

ztejas 43411

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2 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

This. I read this comment this morning and I was thinking "She's talking an awful lot for a woman on a team likely to get knocked out tonight and has ZERO World Cups."

Their men's team also has zero world cups. 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18215

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23 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

it's great to see my entire oeuvre from this tournament in this forum written in a nice way by a professional....

Yeah, that article is spot-on. It was evident from the Netherlands game on that the US women have subpar skill. To analogize: the USWNT are punchers, but the rest of the world is developing boxers. 

And based on my relatively limited perspective, I think the criticism of youth development is spot-on. Players on even the top national-level teams around here often get no or very poor technical training from their clubs. It’s easier to leverage prestigious league affiliation to recruit the biggest, strongest athletes. The USWNT’s and NCAA’s emphasis on turbo soccer rewards that lazy developmental approach at the youth level.

Edited by BrickHorn
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