being offended

[shadow_operative 15932]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

Context. They are funny and said things at a time when the people who have or care for those with disabilities didn’t have the power to speak up. So we can watch and acknowledge humor but also recognize that language isn’t acceptable today.

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

Edited July 18, 2023 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

It’s not an either/or but thing.  Things can be offensive and still have a place here. We’ve all said offensive things here. The difference is we aren’t all trying to pretend those things aren’t offensive. 
But nobody is changing your mind.  

your last sentence is wildly ironic. my mind is open. go re-read my OP if you need to. i'm open to hearing what anyone here has to say. the only people here whose minds aren't changing are the ones who've got their minds made up about me. 

[nineliveslost 2888]

3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

But are you really removing the words when you replace them with letters? I don't think so. In a weird way you accentuate them 

[closetohumping 17547]

of·fend
/əˈfend/
verb
1.
cause to feel upset, annoyed, or resentful

[Deej 77163]

22 minutes ago, South Austin said:

My poor mom is denigrated on an hourly basis on this forum.  I'm the last guy here who is offended.

If you had an issue with your mom's sexual activities, that would be a "you" problem.  Good for you for being ok with it. 

[closetohumping 17547]

Used to be ok to make racist and homophobic jokes too. Times change.  If you don’t want to change that’s fine.  Don’t begrudge others that do.  You’re referencing material that’s over twenty years old

Edited July 18, 2023 by closetohumping

[South Austin 52686]

off end
/off end/
noun
1.
the bottom position of a light switch

[closetohumping 17547]

2 minutes ago, South Austin said:

off end
/off end/
noun
1.
the bottom position of a light switch

South Austin’s mom please off end so we can get it on?

[Gatorubet 30391]

29 minutes ago, South Austin said:

My poor mom is denigrated on an hourly basis on this forum.  I'm the last guy here who is offended.

This is a lie. Everybody says she is great in the sack. 

[mdmost 43295]

21 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

And yet many of the same people who get offended by that use hot wheels on a regular basis. Hypocrites. 

Yeah but Abbott's just a massive piece of shit so it's fine. 

[Dbeasy 15225]

16 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

ok, I spent one minute on the goggles searching this. I always thought "hot" was cool or the cool car

What you talking about Willis?

Posters on surly call Greg Abbott hot wheels, the same posters who express outrage at racism, homophobia, etc. It’s just example 5,000 how people adjust their own moral compass to fit their own world political views. And they somehow justify it in their own minds. Whatever. 

[ztejas 43741]

26 minutes ago, royiv said:

You're talking about a guy who is dead, a movie made in 2008 and one that was made in 1995. How hard is it for you to understand that language evolves? You do realize using the n word used to he socially acceptable and we don't do that any longer, right? 

Quit comparing retarded to the n word. Talk about being insensitive. 

[Gatorubet 30391]

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

blah blah blah I want to still use the words that people find offensive now, but I don’t want them looking down on or judging me because I use them.  

See somebody said it/used it in the past. (I do not get that saying this last point is the functional equivalent of “I have a black friend”)

[South Austin 52686]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yeah but Abbott's just a massive piece of shit so it's fine. 

This is usually what I say right after a slight pause before hitting "Submit Reply."

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

this is a semi public forum near equivalent to yelling from the street corner.  you don't know who is listening and when you might be poking someone's particular sore spot.  the main difference is that everyone can easily avoid this particular street corner if they don't want to hear what is said.  if it's not fun to be here, don't be here.

 

so a bit of the onus is on the listener to let some stuff slide and a bit of the onus is on the speaker to be wary of the huge blast radius of any comment. 

 

i think we do a fairly decent job and i don't really think that anyone here is a piece of shit.

[Kennythetiger 9496]

38 minutes ago, South Austin said:

My poor mom is denigrated on an hourly basis on this forum.  I'm the last guy here who is offended.

5% of the jokes about your mom are funny. Most are not. 5% of the jokes about armybrat’s age are funny, especially if he makes them. Most are not. Neither one of you guys seem to give a shit. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

blah blah blah I want to still use the words that people find offensive now, but I don’t want them looking down on or judging me because I use them.  

See somebody said it/used it in the past. (I do not get that saying this last point is the functional equivalent of “I have a black friend”)

your post is like the fifth iteration of the same post that many other people have made many times here, and it's been addressed. in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval to say whatever i want to. that's frankly a preposterous notion to begin with. so uh, try again.

[royiv 9447]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Quit comparing retarded to the n word. Talk about being insensitive. 

You missed the point that language evolves. Some things that were acceptable 100 years ago aren’t acceptable today just like some things that were acceptable 20 years ago aren’t acceptable today. One of the beautiful things about humans is that we’re constantly evolving and learning. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

People are going to get offended. Try to do better when you have done something offensive, but don't bend over backwards to accommodate people who get offended by stupid things.

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

this is a semi public forum near equivalent to yelling from the street corner.  you don't know who is listening and when you might be poking someone's particular sore spot.  the main difference is that everyone can easily avoid this particular street corner if they don't want to hear what is said.  if it's not fun to be here, don't be here.

 

so a bit of the onus is on the listener to let some stuff slide and a bit of the onus is on the speaker to be wary of the huge blast radius of any comment. 

 

i think we do a fairly decent job and i don't really think that anyone here is a piece of shit.

this is probably my favorite response so far, and is in line with exactly how i feel. of course it's shitty to go out of your way to be cruel to someone. that's never been a question. however, this newly discovered notion that we have shaggy/surly members who choose to sign up for and post here every day who also think that the r word should strictly be verboten- that one made me pause. like you said, if it's not fun to be here then don't be here. i have a hard time thinking that the venn diagram of dedicated surly posters and people who cannot handle hearing offensive language has a whole lot of overlap.

[Deej 77163]

3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval

Yet it is painfully obvious that all you really want is approval. It's a shame you have no idea how to go about it. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

5 minutes ago, Deej said:

Yet it is painfully obvious that all you really want is approval. It's a shame you have no idea how to go about it. 

oh for sure, i just desperately seek all of y'all's approval. that's why i spend 95% of my time on this site tucked away in the basketball forum where 99% of our posters never go. yeah you've really got me pegged there. 👌🏼 

Edited July 18, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Dbeasy 15225]

I do wonder about the future of comedy given that historically a lot of the humor was at the expense of someone else. In 50 years will it be a completely humorless society with people walking around in misery with blank looks on their faces?

Wait, did I just describe the last ten years of Texas football?

[Celery Man 21026]

I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go? FWIW I agree that people should cut you some slack and that it has (or had, I don't know how much it still happens) become sport. Of course, it became that way because of your history of interactions on the board and your continued struggle with letting stuff like that slide.

Pointing out that something is offensive is not the same as being offended, btw. I certainly used "retarded", or even "gay" and "fag" (a long time ago when I was a much younger and dumber person). Not proud of that, but as has been pointed out language evolves and part of that is our understanding. It is good when "we" are helped to be empathetic with people who are hurt by the way we use words.

if you're not sure how it is that an adult becomes offended, reach into your mind and access the feelings that are triggered every time the thing that happens happens.

[Celery Man 21026]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I do wonder about the future of comedy given that historically a lot of the humor was at the expense of someone else. In 50 years will it be a completely humorless society with people walking around in misery with blank looks on their faces?

Wait, did I just describe the last ten years of Texas football?

i'm not a comedian or really qualified to speak in an educated way about it but I believe there is discussion about how punching down is cheap and for hacks. I don't think that you need to make fun of disabled, marginalized, etc to be funny

[Js1 85744]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

I’m offended when a grown up doesn’t use correct punctuation and/or capitalization. Or for that matter, any. 

Do you get offended when people reply in incomplete sentences?

[ztejas 43741]

8 minutes ago, royiv said:

You missed the point that language evolves. Some things that were acceptable 100 years ago aren’t acceptable today just like some things that were acceptable 20 years ago aren’t acceptable today. One of the beautiful things about humans is that we’re constantly evolving and learning. 

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Do you get offended when people reply in incomplete sentences?

Some

[shadow_operative 15932]

10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go?

are you aware that whenever i have a discussion/disagreement/back-and-forth with another poster/posters that you always frame it as "derka can't let it go"? what about the person/people i'm debating with? in this case that would be you. why is it that my equal (sometimes lesser) share of the posting is always framed that way, when it's never framed that way for the people who are engaging in the back and forth with me? something worth marinating on. 

[closetohumping 17547]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

What was the context in the basketball thread?

[956 Worldwide 34909]

When the Special Olympics has a take on something, and your take is the opposite of theirs and you want to tell everyone the Special Olympics is the one that’s wrong, you need to be prepared for most people to think you’re kind of an asshole.  Just a life lesson on the battles to pick. 
 

https://www.specialolympics.org/stories/impact/why-the-r-word-is-the-r-slur

[Dbeasy 15225]

14 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

i'm not a comedian or really qualified to speak in an educated way about it but I believe there is discussion about how punching down is cheap and for hacks. I don't think that you need to make fun of disabled, marginalized, etc to be funny

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

[closetohumping 17547]

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

When the Special Olympics has a take on something, and your take is the opposite of theirs and you want to tell everyone the Special Olympics is the one that’s wrong, you need to be prepared for most people to think you’re kind of an asshole.  Just a life lesson on the battles to pick. 
 

https://www.specialolympics.org/stories/impact/why-the-r-word-is-the-r-slur

Special can be used in many different ways. 😂

[closetohumping 17547]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

This world has turned upside down!  It used to be white men making fun of everyone and now it’s like the opposite!!!

[immamac 43555]

speaking of the thread title. LOL

[YGIFS 19453]

The fun twist in the 2020's is the people who think other people are the easily triggered snowflakes who are offended so easily, are they themselves actually the most easily triggered snowflakes who are offended quite easily.  Walking victimhood is their lifestyle, but they can't see it because they think they're on a crusade to point out the snowflake culture in our society.  Yet another thing the stupid can't see from the inside of the bubble.  But the bubble is comforting.  

As for "retard", I think I've gone on a few rants about it over the years but have not in a long, long time.  My take on the word is simple, use if you need to.  It doesn't say much for you.  To engage a conversation with adults about any topic, and to think in your mind's word database, "This word will impress these people and show them that I am a serious person, a man of letters" is just weird to me.  But yes, the word bothers the shit out of my sister to this day (she's 54 now), and so it bothers me because I don't like to see her bothered.  She's got enough other bullshit to deal with in life.  She often struggles to find the right word to use to convey an idea or request and to watch grown men, "educated" men just toss dumb words around so flippantly is an affront to her efforts.  Hundreds of thousands of words in our language, some with such precision and beauty...and people just choose to lowest common denominator because they think it makes them sound bold and refreshing like a 4LOKO.  

She used to hear the word "retard" a lot, both directed at her and just kinda thrown out in general, "Oh that movie was retarded."  All through her childhood and into her 20's.  Then it all kinda went away, at least as far as I remember.  We just didn't hear it very much, if ever.  And then a few years ago, when ugliness and vitriol and hate and pointing out differences in every single person began to make stupid people feel better about their shitty station in life...we started hearing it more and more again.  And it makes her cringe, and sometimes cry.  Sign of the times I suppose.  

She doesn't read the site (thank god), so throw it around all you want.  I guess it just reminds me of times I heard it when I was with her and saw her mentally break down and it just brings up those shitty memories.  But I'm over it now.  Ugliness and stupidity are this nation's features now, not our bugs.  We had a good run, I'll let y'all run it into the fucking ground and take good people down with you.

[Armybrat 40987]

[YChang 3472]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

I highly highly doubt it

[Celery Man 21026]

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

are you aware that whenever i have a discussion/disagreement/back-and-forth with another poster/posters that you always frame it as "derka can't let it go"?

I rarely get involved in thread derkaing, I think it's been a period of years since I last engaged with you on this topic, and even then it was about how you should let things go not about how you're wrong and dumb or whatever it is that you feel like people are doing when they are victimizing you. It is interesting that you still have me pegged as someone who persecutes you on this board.

 

Quote

what about the person/people i'm debating with?

you don't control them

Quote

in this case that would be you. why is it that my equal (sometimes lesser) share of the posting is always framed that way, when it's never framed that way for the people who are engaging in the back and forth with me? something worth marinating on. 

this is what I wrote just now that you responded to with this - 
I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go? FWIW I agree that people should cut you some slack and that it has (or had, I don't know how much it still happens) become sport. Of course, it became that way because of your history of interactions on the board and your continued struggle with letting stuff like that slide.

 

I'm going to go back to not engaging with you on this for a few years.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Celery Man

[gmr548 16635]

This has got to be one of the most “look at me” thread posts I’ve ever seen on this site. Bravo OP. We are all in awe of your superior intellect and constitution.

[Gatorubet 30391]

34 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

your post is like the fifth iteration of the same post that many other people have made many times here, and it's been addressed. in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval to say whatever i want to. that's frankly a preposterous notion to begin with. so uh, try again.

So just an intellectual exercise, with you advocating to be able to use the word retarded and not get blow back from snowflakes.  Gotcha.

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I rarely get involved in thread derkaing, I think it's been a period of years since I last engaged with you on this topic, and even then it was about how you should let things go

yeah but this is what so hilariously ironic about your first post in this thread. the absolute, unequivocal fact is that i was not the one in the rick and morty thread who got upset, nor was i the one who could not let it go. it was y'all, 100%. i said, "yeah this show used to be better" and countless posters who are not me just lost their ever loving minds and then absolutely could not let it go. you still haven't let it go. but then y'all swear that it's me who is upset and who won't let it go.

the mob mentality/hive mind that takes place in these instances is just fascinating for me. "every accusation is a confession." that's all that comes to my mind when you guys try and make these claims about me. it's wild.

Edited July 18, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Celery Man 21026]

i didn't even read that shit man I just breezed past it, I don't know the specifics
 

[closetohumping 17547]

3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

yeah but this is what so hilariously ironic about your first post in this thread. the absolute, unequivocal fact is that i was not the one in the rick and morty thread who got upset, not was i the one who could not let it go. it was y'all. i said, "yeah this show used to be better" and countless posters who are not me just lost their ever loving minds and then absolutely could not let it go. you still haven't let it go. the mob mentality/hive mind that takes place in these instances is just fascinating for me. "every accusation is a confession." that's all that comes to my mind when you guys try and make these claims about me. it's wild.

You wrecked the House of Dragons thread too.  We all said "yea, show isn't perfect but can we discuss it without you butting in?"  Yes, I know there's an ignore button. 

[Bevo 13633]

1 hour ago, nineliveslost said:

I went through the drive through, got my order with the correct price and said, "thanks man" and was about to drive off when I got a "I'm not a man and that's offensive." 

Dude was clearly a dude. 

What. The. Fuck. Ever.

((YELLING AT CLOUDS)) Everyone and their ever changing and adding social bullshit rules. It's a beating and I am offended they are offended

 

What sucks is dealing with that at work. I don't know 100% if it is a guy wanting to be a girl, a manly looking girl, a girly looking man - basically I don't know anything about the situation. So basically, I need to guess right without asking which would be rude. I guess nowadays I need to put it on the questionnaire and review it beforehand.

[closetohumping 17547]

Just now, Bevo said:

What sucks is dealing with that at work. I don't know 100% if it is a guy wanting to be a girl, a manly looking girl, a girly looking man - basically I don't know anything about the situation. So basically, I need to guess right without asking which would be rude. I guess nowadays I need to put it on the questionnaire and review it beforehand.

Maybe just call them by their name?

[nineliveslost 2888]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

Maybe just call them by their name?

Pat

[shadow_operative 15932]

5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

So just an intellectual exercise, with you advocating to be able to use the word retarded and not get blow back from snowflakes.  Gotcha.

i don't know if you were around back in ~08-09, but i used to have a phrase that i looooved to throw around: "water head retard." i said it all of the time. anyone who disagreed with me was a water head retard. in fact, the shaggy colloquialism "regard/regarded" spawned from a typo of mine in a hoops board thread title. bottom line, anyone who was around back then will remember how frequently i just tossed that word around like it meant nothing.

fast forward to today, and i hardly ever use the word at all, and really only use it in context. as ygifs described, using the word, and using it often, comes off as an indictment on both your vocabulary and your intelligence, which are two of the main reasons that i all but stopped using the word altogether, again with the exception being using the word in context. 

i do not want or need your permission or approval to say a word that pretty much left my vocabulary years ago. however, i absolutely will debate with anyone who believes that the word should be banned from surly, and that's really the only stance i've taken on it here. so, continue with your off topic, butthurt, i-hate-derka replies all you'd like, but just know that nothing you're saying is adding anything to this discussion, and you're coming off as very whiny and upset.