Texas tops list of worst places to live and work in America

[Guest]

Everybody lives alone that i know...

 

weird.

 

will agree 1000% on teachers and I have lamented the fact in the education thread. My niece has 2 masters and makes under $40K as a SPED director.  I fully support being more competitive in professional salaries with regard to education.  let's cut some of the other bullshit, however.

The point goes further to what I am saying about our entry level role.  It offers significantly more and you just can't be a piece of shit while being reliable to do your job..

Edited August 6, 2023 by slorch

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, G650 said:

You actually believe this. Interesting

I live it.  Why wouldn't I believe it?

The best person I ever hired in the entry level role was a fucking bowling alley manager.  Grew up on a farm but had zero grocery experience.  I hired him because he gave a fuck and had demonstrable experiences showing that. I've had a crew that was 12 women out of 18 headcount and kicked ass with them in a very male dominated field.  IDGAFF really what your background is within reason.  If you want to work, and you're eligible, let's go.

Edited August 6, 2023 by slorch

[G650 13990]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

I live it.  Why wouldn't I believe it.

Because it's absurd on it's face. I have a fleet of CDL drivers and to characterize any of that as easy it's laughable

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

Because it's absurd on it's face. I have a fleet of CDL drivers and to characterize any of that as easy it's laughable

Passing the DOT physical is easy.

CDL not required for us, but the vehicles are DOT regulated.

Wasn't slamming CDL drivers.  They have entry level barriers/ training that do not exist for us, and for very good reasons.

Edited August 6, 2023 by slorch

[Celery Man 20874]

I'm highly privileged like most of you folks. I also did work hard to advance in my career and I didn't land any jobs or promotions as a result of nepotism or daddy making phone calls. Those two things are not exclusive to each other and you folks who hear "some people need help" and instantly begin to reminisce about the various hurdles you've overcome have character flaws that you would do well to address.

 

My wife did not come from the same kind of privilege I did and I'm grateful for the perspective I gained from being around her family. Many of them great people, but before hanging out with them it was hard to understand how many poor choices I was guided away from as a result of generations of passed down familial wisdom and... high-functioningedness. I also had a new appreciation of the difference of the different kinds of poor whenever I would see someone searching for loose change in order to make a purchase that would literally not be possible of the physical coins were not turned up somewhere. There was a fucking huge blowup at one point about a bucket of change in a closet and a shithead uncle was accusing my wife (then girlfriend) and it was fucking incredible to me the severity of a handful of missing quarters.

Some folks also believe that avoiding the trap of addiction is simple and easy (across the board), and those people are morons.

[G650 13990]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

Passing the DOT physical is easy.

All I can tell you is I disagree strongly, especially as these guys age.

 

Plus having a clean driving record is a 50/50 proposition. We usually have to work with our insurance company to get at least four or five guys through on a watch basis

But the major point is you are just using anecdotal evidence and disregarding vast amounts of data. It's not just hey participate and you will have a decent life.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

All I can tell you is I disagree strongly, especially as these guys age.

 

Plus having a clean driving record is a 50/50 proposition. We usually have to work with our insurance company to get at least four or five guys through on a watch basis

But the major point is you are just using anecdotal evidence and disregarding vast amounts of data. It's not just hey participate and you will have a decent life.

Your anecdotal evidence trumps mine.  Gotcha.

DUI is the single biggest factor in our folks losing their job because of their licenses becoming provisional.  It's not age or failing their DOT physical renewal; with regard to that aspect of the business.

Edited August 6, 2023 by slorch

[G650 13990]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

Your anecdotal evidence trumps mine.  Gotcha.

DUI is the single biggest factor in our folks losing their job because of their licenses becoming provisional.  It's not age or whatever.    We must just hire perfect employees...

I'm not the one arguing my situation is indicative of broader society. I am however negating that yours does.

 

But that's exactly what I mean. Slip up and get a DUI, job gone. Endless spiral of hopelessness follows as bills go unmet, medical help goes, debt gets incurred....

 

It's just a question of what kind of society you find acceptable. Having the richest nation the world has ever seen let tens of millions of its population struggle to procure the bare necessities to survive seems absurd to me but you are free to have your own opinions.

[YGIFS 19449]

Thread derail, no pun intended.  But out of curiosity...what lines of business you fellas in with all these drivers/DOT folks?  

[Homercles 10205]

I don’t care what starting salary is, my point has been that the ratio of income:expenses changes much more rapidly, paired with a long-term trend that means people born even five years apart can’t compare their experience.  

Hell even since Covid, prices have gone up insanely.  I totally get that long-lead supply chain issues in a global economy drive effects that take years to work out, and more sensitive to shit like bird flu outbreaks driving egg prices through the roof.  

Sticking with just the Covid era example…I read about companies making record profits, exec pay/golden parachutes, PPP loan abuse, etc while watching my weekly grocery bill go up 25%.  Airlines and hotels are neutering rewards programs to squeeze consumers when demand is hot yet cry for bailout money when times are bad.  You won’t pay a living wage so you default tip machines at counter service joints to 25%?

All of this shit makes me sour on medium/large businesses…including my employer as some of us organized our life around WFH yet now suddenly we need to come into the office to use tiny hotel cubes with no privacy or food service espousing ‘culture’ when really it’s because your commercial real estate value is crashing?  GTFO of here.  

Point being to this YGIFS rant (again) is I have a little empathy for this ‘people don’t want to work’ shit…every opportunity to squeeze customers/employees/govt is taken with a grin on their face while handing profits to shareholders and execs.  Why should I be loyal and give my soul to you when you tell us to suck it up and get roommates in a $1,300/month apartment in Shitsville Houston?

[Brisketexan 104465]

This argument seems to conflate being born in the USA vs. being born in some desolate hell hole elsewhere.  We all won the lottery if we were born in the USA.
Then lets talk about my advantages.
I was born into a two parent family.  Mom and Dad were actually married.  My Mom was a full-time homemaker.  We spoke English in our home.  I never lacked for food or shelter when I was growing up.
Is that first or second base?

Could be first. Could be second. I’d say first, with a strong lead and a great chance to steal second.
Y’all - we, because I’m one of us - truly don’t grasp how many people actually live hand to mouth. Hell, there are millions who are unbanked (although mobile banking has really closed that gap in recent years).
I’m damn lucky (again, born in third base), but the reason I was there was also luck. Things like my dad having a high school teacher who convinced a bunch of border kids that they too could go to college. Neither of my parents ever got seriously ill or injured.
Man. The lack of perspective that the “comfortable” in this society suffers from continues to amaze me.
For fuck’s sake, we just “loaned” an acquaintance several thousand dollars because they were having a car repossessed (that they need for work) and couldn’t make rent. These are decent, working people. They had a surprise fourth kid. Inflation has hit them hard. And they were getting pushed onto the bad side of the margins. Note that “loaned”‘is in quotes because maybe we’ll get paid back…maybe we won’t. It’ll be what it’ll be. But realize that I’d suggest that the MAJORITY of your fellow Americans live that close to the margins. They’re pulling their bootstraps as hard as they can. They work their fingers to the bone. And a bad break sends them over the edge.
If you can survive an expensive car repair, that alone puts you in “first base” territory at least.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Thread derail, no pun intended.  But out of curiosity...what lines of business you fellas in with all these drivers/DOT folks?  

Did we just witness the most succinct Lobo post? If so, maybe this thread has been a success.

[G650 13990]

10 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Thread derail, no pun intended.  But out of curiosity...what lines of business you fellas in with all these drivers/DOT folks?  

I'm a site/heavy highway contractor.

[YGIFS 19449]

Just now, Patricio Swayze said:

Did we just witness the most succinct Lobo post? If so, maybe this thread has been a success.

Only thing more laboriously prosaic than posts I made a few years ago are y'all's ability to bitch and moan at incessantly great length about long-ago posts.  Scroll past 'em or quit your bitching.  Easy choice.  But point out their ubiquity by being overly indulgent yourself?  Bold strategy, Cotton.  Only time I ever worry about this site is when you quit bitchin'

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

That's our surly business leader and oil baron contingent for ya. Reality is however it looks from their position, and anyone not doing as well as them must be lazy idiots who just can't use their bootstraps 

You’re conflating two posters. Again. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Thread derail, no pun intended.  But out of curiosity...what lines of business you fellas in with all these drivers/DOT folks?  

Grocery industry.  Supplier.

[Redneck Mutha 7923]

39 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Thread derail, no pun intended.  But out of curiosity...what lines of business you fellas in with all these drivers/DOT folks?  

[Captainant 27311]

8 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

You’re conflating two posters. Again. 

I'm referring to a general subset of posters on surly that tend to use the same set of whatabouts and rhetorical devices to protect their wildly out of whack worldview - ya know, stuff like thinking $250k/yr is a normal middle class household income.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, G650 said:

Slip up and get a DUI, job gone.

Yeah this is as it should be. Particularly in their line of work. I love the characterization of “slip up”

[Snake Diggity 4614]

Defining the baseball analogy parameters:

“Born on 1st base”: You are a US citizen who was raised in a non-abusive, 2 parent household 

“Born on 2nd base”: everything above plus at least one parent holds a 4+ year degree and/or your childhood household’s income was in the top 25%.  You might’ve gone to private elementary and high school.  Your parents probably paid for some/all of your college.  You probably got to go to Disney World as a kid.

”Born on 3rd base”: everything above except it’s top 10% of household income.  Your parents probably own more than one home.  You almost certainly went to private school.  You probably traveled internationally as a kid.  You probably stand to inherit significant money when your folks die.

”Born into a home run”: your parents consistently held a net worth over $10M (likely much more) from the time you were born until the time you became an adult.  You might’ve gone to boarding school.  Your decisions around career/work never considered money.  You might have a trust fund that puts out 5 figures per month.

”Didn’t even have to play the game”: Your parents are on lists of wealthiest people in your state/country.  Your family name is on buildings and shit.  You are detached from the reality of 99.99% of peoples lived experience.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I think it’s time to drop the analogy.

[G650 13990]

7 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Yeah this is as it should be. Particularly in their line of work. I love the characterization of “slip up”

You are more than welcome to feel someone's life should be ruined over a moment of bad judgement. It says more about you than them.

[YGIFS 19449]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Grocery industry.  Supplier.

Maybe we crossed paths in another life.  I do some work with a dedicated fleet for Aldi foods.  Not much in Texas, since their footprint here is rather small but fair size up north/back east.  

[Helobious 9477]

What’s the equivalent of being born at home plate but it’s Albert Pujols batting with 2 outs in the ninth and Brad Lidge is on the mound?

[Brisketexan 104465]

I think it’s time to drop the analogy.

I agree. Let’s transition the analogy to Jai Alai.
Which I don’t fucking understand in the least.

What’s the equivalent of being born at home plate but it’s Albert Pujols batting with 2 outs in the ninth and Brad Lidge is on the mound?

Too soon…..

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, G650 said:

You are more than welcome to feel someone's life should be ruined over a moment of bad judgement. It says more about you than them.

What happens to their life after their CDL has been revoked is immaterial to me. I just want them off the road. 

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:21 AM, Js1 said:

LOL you got repped by Baba.  You're in the wrong.

BUT CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're ignoring the actual statistics that crime is down.  But keep ignoring what we all know.  You're actively burying your head in the sand if you think politics has nothing to do with it.  Sorry you are so triggered that state policies towards healthcare, especially women's healthcare, and education, might have adverse effects on the quality of life somewhere.  But we can't talk about it because your feelings might get hurt. 

Also YGIFS brought it up well before me.  We are nearly dead last in things like healthcare and education.  Maybe that's why Texas is high on the list of terrible places to work and live.  We also discussed things 8 pages ago about worker's rights - more politics! 

I think you know I’m on your side with a TON of this.  And I also mock the ‘but Chicago’ folks.  But the reality is crime does drive people out too.  We know plenty of very progressive folks who left just out of our condo building, not even talking the city overall.  Hell, Hillary Fucking Clinton, had a fundraiser in this building.  
 

Both can be true about regressive policy and crime.  Just to outright dismiss crime is ridiculous.  

And I’m not leaving, but I’m a lucky bastard who is able to have multiple places all over the country.  If I only had one place it would be a tough choice.  

[Doc Sam Beckett 5781]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

 

will agree 1000% on teachers and I have lamented the fact in the education thread. My niece has 2 masters and makes under $40K as a SPED director.  

Jesus Christ that's beyond absurd. 

[Captainant 27311]

21 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Jesus Christ that's beyond absurd. 

There's a number of people who post frequently on surly that say they don't think the state should waste resources on children who won't show a good return on investment. Shit like paying special ed instructors with multiple grad degrees nearly minimum wage is a consequence of that sort of thinking becoming popular.

God bless america. May our profits always be up next quarter!

Edited August 6, 2023 by Captainant

[Gatorubet 30064]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I agree. Let’s transition the analogy to Jai Alai.
Which I don’t fucking understand in the least.
Too soon…..

Well, that’s a mood brightener. As a poor college kid I hit a quinella at the Ocala Fronton that paid for my six week SCUBA CLASS/certification at UF. 

Which is all to say, whether Jai Alai or life, sometimes your success is more a matter of luck than skill. 

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

I think one issue is that some see wages as a linear scale- and 250k is much closer to 55k than it is a million. Therefore, the 250k household is more similar to the 55k household than it is the million household. 
 

but as far as buying power, it’s more of a log scale where the difference is more profound at the lower end of the scale.  And in reality the 250k is closer to the million than the 55k.
 

And as an example of the difference, we could imagine for each of those scenarios, if they all literally spend every dollar immediately and have zero in the bank at all times, what happens when there’s an unforeseen $5000 expense?  
 

The million dollar household just goes on one fewer trip that year, could sell a car and buy a slightly cheaper one, any number of things to absorb the extra cost without much hassle. 
the 250k house has some of the same options, maybe it’s a little uncomfortable, maybe they skip their one vacation per year. 
the 55k household, they might choosing between paying the expense and paying for food or housing. 

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

And to take all that a step further, I might even argue that the unforeseen 5k expense is more likely to happen to the 55k household as they are likely driving older, cheaper vehicles more likely to break down. They buy more cheap, processed foods so might be less healthy, leading to more healthcare incidents. 
 

This is veering toward the fringes of the topic, but it’s all related to how financial mobility isn’t as easy as it once was in this country, nor is the acquisition and accumulation of wealth. It can still happen, for sure, but it’s more viscous. 
 

it’s easier to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you are ankle deep in mud than when you are knee deep or waist deep.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[Elvis 3356]

Speaking of unforeseen expenses. The million dollar family has a $65k AC repair instead of $8k. Or $30k pool repair. Or $15k transmission. 
 

Keepin up with the Jones’s ain’t cheep. 

[G650 13990]

30 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

And as an example of the difference, we could imagine for each of those scenarios, if they all literally spend every dollar immediately and have zero in the bank at all times, what happens when there’s an unforeseen $5000 expense?  
 

 

I feel like I've talked about this before here, but maybe not. Over the years, I've saved employees cars from repo, houses from foreclosure, etc.. We offer no interest pay day advances. The main reason I do it is because of the culture I want to have and I can control, and it the end result is we have a very tenured workforce. All of our supervisors are guys who have been there 30 and closing on 40 years.

 

But the example above is perfect for people to really get what life is like for the majority of Americans. I had just this past week one of my operators have to go out with kidney stones. Ended up with a $3000 medical bill after surgery, plus missed time. This guy is one of my best employees, only misses work for illness, conscientious, all around good worker. One of my top paid operators as well. I had to load him 400 bucks to make his car payment this month, through absolutely zero fault of his own. No fuckups, nothing. That is reality for the average American.

 

I am happy to help my little corner of the world where I can, but it would be a lot nicer if I didn't have to.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

600 bucks last  I checked for people to rent a cabana, for 4 hours, so they can sit by the lazy river in a covered area, with a tv they aren’t watching, to play on their phones and not talk to their family.

I need to construct and rent out cabanas/newspapercat.meme

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

7 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Speaking of unforeseen expenses. The million dollar family has a $65k AC repair instead of $8k. Or $30k pool repair. Or $15k transmission. 
 

Keepin up with the Jones’s ain’t cheep. 

It’s not hard to find stories of people earning north of 500k and they relatively save/invest very little. They’re not wanting and they can cover almost any emergency if only due to their 100k of credit card available credit. I don’t think they’re asking anyone to feel sorry for them but there is a good chance they run in circles where they’re the middle class family. Their kids are the poor kids since they fly economy plus when traveling instead of first or private.

[naija 2851]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:31 AM, G650 said:

It's insane how divorced some people are from the average American's life situation.

maybe I am misremembering this, but remind me what your username is based on again?

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

21 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Speaking of unforeseen expenses. The million dollar family has a $65k AC repair instead of $8k. Or $30k pool repair. Or $15k transmission. 
 

Keepin up with the Jones’s ain’t cheep. 

Agreed. But with the caveats that 1)most pool repairs aren’t emergent

2) they are more likely than poors to have a newer car still under warranty so that the transmission work is free or a deductible a fraction of the cost
3) more likely to be in a newer home with a newer hvac that is less likely to fail. 
 

but also acknowledging that the poorer group is more likely to be renting and have the hvac failure not be their responsibility. 

[G650 13990]

10 minutes ago, naija said:

maybe I am misremembering this, but remind me what your username is based on again?

It was a joke from the original Nick Saban flight tracking saga

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Defining the baseball analogy parameters:

“Born on 1st base”: You are a US citizen who was raised in a non-abusive, 2 parent household 

“Born on 2nd base”: everything above plus at least one parent holds a 4+ year degree and/or your childhood household’s income was in the top 25%.  You might’ve gone to private elementary and high school.  Your parents probably paid for some/all of your college.  You probably got to go to Disney World as a kid.

”Born on 3rd base”: everything above except it’s top 10% of household income.  Your parents probably own more than one home.  You almost certainly went to private school.  You probably traveled internationally as a kid.  You probably stand to inherit significant money when your folks die.

”Born into a home run”: your parents consistently held a net worth over $10M (likely much more) from the time you were born until the time you became an adult.  You might’ve gone to boarding school.  Your decisions around career/work never considered money.  You might have a trust fund that puts out 5 figures per month.

”Didn’t even have to play the game”: Your parents are on lists of wealthiest people in your state/country.  Your family name is on buildings and shit.  You are detached from the reality of 99.99% of peoples lived experience.

That’s not bad. 

[RDCanecutter 26239]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Defining the baseball analogy parameters:

“Born on 1st base”: You are a US citizen who was raised in a non-abusive, 2 parent household 

“Born on 2nd base”: everything above plus at least one parent holds a 4+ year degree and/or your childhood household’s income was in the top 25%.  You might’ve gone to private elementary and high school.  Your parents probably paid for some/all of your college.  You probably got to go to Disney World as a kid.

”Born on 3rd base”: everything above except it’s top 10% of household income.  Your parents probably own more than one home.  You almost certainly went to private school.  You probably traveled internationally as a kid.  You probably stand to inherit significant money when your folks die.

”Born into a home run”: your parents consistently held a net worth over $10M (likely much more) from the time you were born until the time you became an adult.  You might’ve gone to boarding school.  Your decisions around career/work never considered money.  You might have a trust fund that puts out 5 figures per month.

”Didn’t even have to play the game”: Your parents are on lists of wealthiest people in your state/country.  Your family name is on buildings and shit.  You are detached from the reality of 99.99% of peoples lived experience.

Anybody who grew up in a stable non-abusive household is probably a pussy.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That’s not bad. 

Kind of.  No way to qualify everyone's experiences.  For instance, as I mentioned up thread, I would consider myself fortunate and of the 3rd base variety.  However, I never went to private school, I did travel to Honduras when I was 14 to stay with family for a month, but that was also the first time I had ever been on a plane. 

Meh...

[Celery Man 20874]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I think you know I’m on your side with a TON of this.  And I also mock the ‘but Chicago’ folks.  But the reality is crime does drive people out too.  We know plenty of very progressive folks who left just out of our condo building, not even talking the city overall.  Hell, Hillary Fucking Clinton, had a fundraiser in this building.  
 

Both can be true about regressive policy and crime.  Just to outright dismiss crime is ridiculous.  

And I’m not leaving, but I’m a lucky bastard who is able to have multiple places all over the country.  If I only had one place it would be a tough choice.  

Bringing it slightly back to the topic of "other places to live than Texas", can you comment generally on "Chicagoland" as a place to live? Maybe for folks in a... few income brackets lower than you?

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Bringing it slightly back to the topic of "other places to live than Texas", can you comment generally on "Chicagoland" as a place to live? Maybe for folks in a... few income brackets lower than you?

I came here for residency making 37k and in a  metric fuckton of debt.  I loved it then and still do today.  

Let’s get into some issues that others are considering:

1. crime: It seems even many on the left now are into funding for police against crime.  Here’s how some things are changing - in boys town they’re hiring local gays to police.  Go up to browntown - Devon - and you got actual Indians as cops.  More, but not nearly enough, black cops down south - it’s a long process but it’s finally changing for the better.  
 

2. climate: it still gets cold but not anything like it did when I moved here - and that was only 17 years ago.  My old man was here in the 70’s and it’s night and day since then.  Large freshwater lake is much better to be next to long term vs an ocean.  
 

3. cost of living: guessing around Houston numbers and this city offers so much more.  
 

4. Homeless:  I travel all over and for a big city it’s just much better.  Some homeless but not many and I’ve never encountered the aggressive hobo like I have in SF and NYC   

5. cleanliness:  NYC feels so damn dirty with trash on the streets compared to Chicago.  Still love NYC, but Chicago feels much more livable for the avg person. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by ChiTownDoc

[closetohumping 17380]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I came here for residency making 37k and in a  metric fuckton of debt.  I loved it then and still do today.  

Let’s get into some issues that others are considering:

1. crime: It seems even many on the left now are into funding for police against crime.  Here’s how some things are changing - in boys town they’re hiring local gays to police.  Go up to browntown - Devon - and you got actual Indians as cops.  More, but not nearly enough, black cops down south - it’s a long process but it’s finally changing for the better.  
 

2. climate: it still gets cold but not anything like it did when I moved here - and that was only 17 years ago.  My old man was here in the 70’s and it’s night and day since then.  Large freshwater lake is much better to be next to long term vs an ocean.  
 

3. cost of living: guessing around Houston numbers and this city offers so much more.  
 

4. Homeless:  I travel all over and for a big city it’s just much better.  Some homeless but not many and I’ve never encountered the aggressive hobo like I have in SF and NYC   

5. cleanliness:  NYC feels so damn dirty with trash on the streets compared to Chicago.  Still love NYC, but Chicago feels much more livable for the avg person. 

Almost left California for Chicago 

[Celery Man 20874]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I came here for residency making 37k and in a  metric fuckton of debt.  I loved it then and still do today.  

Let’s get into some issues that others are considering:

1. crime: It seems even many on the left now are into funding for police against crime.  Here’s how some things are changing - in boys town they’re hiring local gays to police.  Go up to browntown - Devon - and you got actual Indians as cops.  More, but not nearly enough, black cops down south - it’s a long process but it’s finally changing for the better.  
 

2. climate: it still gets cold but not anything like it did when I moved here - and that was only 17 years ago.  My old man was here in the 70’s and it’s night and day since then.  Large freshwater lake is much better to be next to long term vs an ocean.  
 

3. cost of living: guessing around Houston numbers and this city offers so much more.  
 

4. Homeless:  I travel all over and for a big city it’s just much better.  Some homeless but not many and I’ve never encountered the aggressive hobo like I have in SF and NYC   

5. cleanliness:  NYC feels so damn dirty with trash on the streets compared to Chicago.  Still love NYC, but Chicago feels much more livable for the avg person. 

3 is the feeling that i get (cost wise) and agree with strongly (how much to offer-wise), and 2 adds to it a bit. I'm glad to be out of Texas, politically NC is not much better and depending on how things go I may not really want to raise a daughter here. I like Raleigh and it is really a beautiful area, but it is a small city and feels provincial in a lot of ways. We wish it was colder and my wife (who lived for a while in Connecticut) particularly wishes it would snow a bit. My parents lived in Chicago before I was born and it's always felt like there's some romance to it. I work Ag adjacent and there are opportunities that pop up in Chicago ever so often, I've started thinking about it a bit. At least enough to bring it up to the wife who says if there's something that would be a good career move, pursue.

[G650 13990]

11 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I came here for residency making 37k and in a  metric fuckton of debt.  I loved it then and still do today.  

Let’s get into some issues that others are considering:

1. crime: It seems even many on the left now are into funding for police against crime.  Here’s how some things are changing - in boys town they’re hiring local gays to police.  Go up to browntown - Devon - and you got actual Indians as cops.  More, but not nearly enough, black cops down south - it’s a long process but it’s finally changing for the better.  
 

2. climate: it still gets cold but not anything like it did when I moved here - and that was only 17 years ago.  My old man was here in the 70’s and it’s night and day since then.  Large freshwater lake is much better to be next to long term vs an ocean.  
 

3. cost of living: guessing around Houston numbers and this city offers so much more.  
 

4. Homeless:  I travel all over and for a big city it’s just much better.  Some homeless but not many and I’ve never encountered the aggressive hobo like I have in SF and NYC   

5. cleanliness:  NYC feels so damn dirty with trash on the streets compared to Chicago.  Still love NYC, but Chicago feels much more livable for the avg person. 

Also, green space. Chicago does green space better than any city I've ever been to.

[closetohumping 17380]

4 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

3 is the feeling that i get (cost wise) and agree with strongly (how much to offer-wise), and 2 adds to it a bit. I'm glad to be out of Texas, politically NC is not much better and depending on how things go I may not really want to raise a daughter here. I like Raleigh and it is really a beautiful area, but it is a small city and feels provincial in a lot of ways. We wish it was colder and my wife (who lived for a while in Connecticut) particularly wishes it would snow a bit. My parents lived in Chicago before I was born and it's always felt like there's some romance to it. I work Ag adjacent and there are opportunities that pop up in Chicago ever so often, I've started thinking about it a bit. At least enough to bring it up to the wife who says if there's something that would be a good career move, pursue.

I think what kept us here was our friends plus we don’t really know anyone in Chicago but I love the area

[naija 2851]

I don't think Houston is as expensive as Chicago. Have friends in similar occupations in Houston and comparably, they get more, in a material sense, for their buck. But the experience of living (things to do, places to be) is better in Chicago, as subjective as that might be. 

[Brisketexan 104465]

And to take all that a step further, I might even argue that the unforeseen 5k expense is more likely to happen to the 55k household as they are likely driving older, cheaper vehicles more likely to break down. They buy more cheap, processed foods so might be less healthy, leading to more healthcare incidents. 
 
This is veering toward the fringes of the topic, but it’s all related to how financial mobility isn’t as easy as it once was in this country, nor is the acquisition and accumulation of wealth. It can still happen, for sure, but it’s more viscous. 
 
it’s easier to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you are ankle deep in mud than when you are knee deep or waist deep.  

You’re basically referencing the Terry Pratchett boot analogy:

“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.”

 
I feel like I've talked about this before here, but maybe not. Over the years, I've saved employees cars from repo, houses from foreclosure, etc.. We offer no interest pay day advances. The main reason I do it is because of the culture I want to have and I can control, and it the end result is we have a very tenured workforce. All of our supervisors are guys who have been there 30 and closing on 40 years.
 
But the example above is perfect for people to really get what life is like for the majority of Americans. I had just this past week one of my operators have to go out with kidney stones. Ended up with a $3000 medical bill after surgery, plus missed time. This guy is one of my best employees, only misses work for illness, conscientious, all around good worker. One of my top paid operators as well. I had to load him 400 bucks to make his car payment this month, through absolutely zero fault of his own. No fuckups, nothing. That is reality for the average American.
 
I am happy to help my little corner of the world where I can, but it would be a lot nicer if I didn't have to.

Yep. Good, working people. Not “lazy freeloaders” or “damned dirty immigrants” or “welfare queens” or whatever popular pejorative you want to use. People who work hard, and do it right…and live teetering on the edge.