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Texas007

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Trojan Man
Trojan Man

I was banned from commenting on The Athletic a few months ago because I called an OU fan a fucking dumbass for insisting Muschamp 2.0 would be an improvement over Riley.  The jilted ex-girlfriends hav

closetojumping
closetojumping

OU has absurd injury issues at this point.  -They lost Dolby (cheetah starter, kind of like a bad version of Barron) for the season and maybe ever with a dislocated ankle. -Burks left the ga

Hank Kingsley
Hank Kingsley

I know Sooner fans are pretty bummed about this season, but I hope this one really hurt.     

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AllenTx75

AllenTx75 20

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On 8/9/2022 at 8:02 PM, Trojan Man said:

I was banned from commenting on The Athletic a few months ago because I called an OU fan a fucking dumbass for insisting Muschamp 2.0 would be an improvement over Riley.  The jilted ex-girlfriends have been flooding the comments sections of every USC article on that site ever since they lost Riley and I finally got fed up with it.  Anyways, I Googled "college football message board where I can call OU fans fucking dumbasses without getting banned" and it led me here.

 Riley sucks by the way .  too soft .  cannot believe the horns lost 4 games in a row to him .   

USC will continue to suck under riley

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Trojan Man

Trojan Man 429

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18 hours ago, AllenTx75 said:

 Riley sucks by the way .  too soft .  cannot believe the horns lost 4 games in a row to him .   

USC will continue to suck under riley

Speaking from firsthand experience, I'll take Riley over Sark 100/100 times.  You don't go 55-10 with 4 conference championships and 3 playoff appearances and 2 Heisman winners in your first 5 years as a head coach by accident.  For comparison, Saban didn't win his first conference title in a major conference until year 8.  The one complaint I have is I am not a big fan of Grinch's philosophy and scheme.  I would have preferred a different DC hire.  I don't think Grinch is terrible and I'm not starting "Fire Grinch" threads anywhere, but he is slightly above average at best.  USC can and should do better.

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Longboard Horn

Longboard Horn 41,350

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10 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

Speaking from firsthand experience, I'll take Riley over Sark 100/100 times.  You don't go 55-10 with 4 conference championships and 3 playoff appearances and 2 Heisman winners in your first 5 years as a head coach by accident.  For comparison, Saban didn't win his first conference title in a major conference until year 8.  The one complaint I have is I am not a big fan of Grinch's philosophy and scheme.  I would have preferred a different DC hire.  I don't think Grinch is terrible and I'm not starting "Fire Grinch" threads anywhere, but he is slightly above average at best.  USC can and should do better.

Grinch won't last long. You'll see. 

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Trojan Man

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31 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

Grinch won't last long. You'll see. 

I know all about him.  He was at Washington State for a few years and I watch a lot of Big 12 football.  The one thing that has me optimistic about that side of the ball is defensive recruiting.  I don't know what OU's defensive recruiting looked like when Grinch was there, but it's off to a strong start at USC and USC has a higher recruiting ceiling than OU.  Last year coming off a 4-8 season in a transitional class with a staff hired a couple weeks before Early Signing Day they held on to a 5* CB and a high 4* S.  In the transfer portal they landed a 2021 freshman AA LB from Arizona State and another LB who was a freshman AA at Alabama in 2019 before injuries derailed his career.

As for 2023 recruiting USC has won recent commitments over Ohio State and Texas for high 4 star front 7 players and is in a pretty good spot with a couple 5* DEs, a high 4* DT and a few more mid 4* defenders.  I'm confident USC will clean up in the transfer portal on both sides of the ball under Riley.  Once the games start, when the stink of the Helton era begins to fade and USC's staff has proof of concept they can point to at their current job when recruiting, I expect recruiting to pick up even more.  At minimum the cupboard will be restocked for whoever replaces Grinch.

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AllenTx75

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4 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Speaking from firsthand experience, I'll take Riley over Sark 100/100 times.  You don't go 55-10 with 4 conference championships and 3 playoff appearances and 2 Heisman winners in your first 5 years as a head coach by accident.  For comparison, Saban didn't win his first conference title in a major conference until year 8.  The one complaint I have is I am not a big fan of Grinch's philosophy and scheme.  I would have preferred a different DC hire.  I don't think Grinch is terrible and I'm not starting "Fire Grinch" threads anywhere, but he is slightly above average at best.  USC can and should do better.

let me explain why as i have watched riley carefully for 5 years.

1) riley inherited a humming OU team with 2 Heisman QBs already recruited by Stoops ( Mayfield and Kyler).  Riley is a great offensive recruiter and players are attracted to him , but that is not enough as OU has seen , He has issues developing QBs . Spencer rattler bolted to South Carolina for a reason. Another stud QB left OU to SMU and flourished.

2) The OU defense regressed under riley.  Improved for a bit after he fired Mike Stoops , but mot enough.

3) Riley is a great recruiter and is very cerebral in offensive football, but loses games unexplicably due to some in game managemen issues.  He lost twice to Kstate and was outcoached by Iowa state and other coaches in the big 12 several times. 

4) Grinch will have issues improving USC's defense .  His style does not fit top tier teams.

5) lincoln brought with him most of the staff that lost unexplicably last year to Baylor and Ok State and almost lost to Kansas by the way , and the horns should have won that game if not for a meltdown and the heroics of caleb williams. 

 

Bottom line , i think riley will improve USC to 8-3 -7-4 regular season but will plateau , especially against top tier defenses and BIg 10 defenses.  Riley could bot to the NFL by 2025 under pressue as losses pile up in the Big10.

 

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AllenTx75

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3 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

I know all about him.  He was at Washington State for a few years and I watch a lot of Big 12 football.  The one thing that has me optimistic about that side of the ball is defensive recruiting.  I don't know what OU's defensive recruiting looked like when Grinch was there, but it's off to a strong start at USC and USC has a higher recruiting ceiling than OU.  Last year coming off a 4-8 season in a transitional class with a staff hired a couple weeks before Early Signing Day they held on to a 5* CB and a high 4* S.  In the transfer portal they landed a 2021 freshman AA LB from Arizona State and another LB who was a freshman AA at Alabama in 2019 before injuries derailed his career.

As for 2023 recruiting USC has won recent commitments over Ohio State and Texas for high 4 star front 7 players and is in a pretty good spot with a couple 5* DEs, a high 4* DT and a few more mid 4* defenders.  I'm confident USC will clean up in the transfer portal on both sides of the ball under Riley.  Once the games start, when the stink of the Helton era begins to fade and USC's staff has proof of concept they can point to at their current job when recruiting, I expect recruiting to pick up even more.  At minimum the cupboard will be restocked for whoever replaces Grinch.

Yes he has done some good recruiting for 2023  , but Texas is doing better  , and by the way so is OU. Both are higher so far than USC .   Riley needs to solve the defensive issues and that starts with recruiting elite defenses to survive the Big10 move.

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Pdawg88

Pdawg88 1,157

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53 minutes ago, AllenTx75 said:

Yes he has done some good recruiting for 2023  , but Texas is doing better  , and by the way so is OU. Both are higher so far than USC .   Riley needs to solve the defensive issues and that starts with recruiting elite defenses to survive the Big10 move.

He’s too much of a narcissist to do that last part. 

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Trojan Man

Trojan Man 429

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13 minutes ago, AllenTx75 said:

let me explain why as i have watched riley carefully for 5 years.

1) riley inherited a humming OU team with 2 Heisman QBs already recruited by Stoops ( Mayfield and Kyler).  Riley is a great offensive recruiter and players are attracted to him , but that is not enough as OU has seen , He has issues developing QBs . Spencer rattler bolted to South Carolina for a reason. Another stud QB left OU to SMU and flourished.

2) The OU defense regressed under riley.  Improved for a bit after he fired Mike Stoops , but mot enough.

3) Riley is a great recruiter and is very cerebral in offensive football, but loses games unexplicably due to some in game managemen issues.  He lost twice to Kstate and was outcoached by Iowa state and other coaches in the big 12 several times. 

4) Grinch will have issues improving USC's defense .  His style does not fit top tier teams.

5) lincoln brought with him most of the staff that lost unexplicably last year to Baylor and Ok State and almost lost to Kansas by the way , and the horns should have won that game if not for a meltdown and the heroics of caleb williams. 

 

Bottom line , i think riley will improve USC to 8-3 -7-4 regular season but will plateau , especially against top tier defenses and BIg 10 defenses.  Riley could bot to the NFL by 2025 under pressue as losses pile up in the Big10.

 

There's some revisionist history in here.  Riley was Stoops' OC for a couple years before he took over.  OU went from 8-5 the year before hiring Riley as OC to 11-2 in the two years he was OC.  He played a major part in having a strong program to run.  If you want to discredit what Riley did because of what he inherited from Stoops the same thing applies to anything Venables accomplishes in the next couple years, but somehow I doubt all the asshurt Sooner fans now claiming Bob Stoops was personally responsible for every achievement over the last 5 years will give any credit to their former coach if Oklahoma does well this fall.  Before Riley coached them, Tech didn't think Mayfield was worth a scholarship and everybody thought Murray's future was in MLB instead of the NFL.  Neither of those guys were considered locks for winning the Heisman and going first overall in the draft pre-Riley.  Same with Jalen Hurts.  If he stayed at Alabama he goes pro in something other than sports rather than becoming a starter in the NFL.  Rattler was a bust, but those 3 plus Caleb Williams are all the real deal.  80% hit rate on QBs will get the job done.

As for recruiting, I was only bringing up defense because that's what we're discussing.  Unsurprisingly, offensive recruiting is going better.  For 2023 USC has commitments from the #2 QB (per 247), the #1 WR, a very high 4* WR who could be bumped up to 5* and a couple 4* RBs.  USC is the favorite to land the #1 TE.  Riley also brought in a borderline 5* RB and a high 4* WR in his transitional class last year.  This is all without throwing wads of cash around as USC just started its collective (sanction PTSD has caused USC to be overly cautious on NIL), another reason for optimism.  I expect USC's 2023 recruiting class to finish in the 8-12 range.  Currently it's 13th, but like I've said there are numerous elite targets still out there USC is favored to land.  9-10 wins this season and Riley is flipping some blue chips this fall.  2024 onward, once the collective is fully functional and relationships are established with recruits/HS coaches and other programs can no longer negatively recruit using Helton's reign of failure and USC is 1 of 2 programs west of the Rockies in a super conference, I expect top 5 yearly.

Sark is an amazing recruiter, but he won't win anything of note with the classes he signs.  The good news is if you nail the next hire you can expect instant success because the cupboard will be fully stocked.  If we replaced Sark with an average coach instead of the most clueless dipshit in college football USC makes at least 1 CFP appearance in 2016-17.  Thanks to Sark those teams were loaded with NFLers on both sides of the ball, but shitty coaching and a dash of Pac 12 schedulers fucking us over prevented any CFP berths.

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AllenTx75

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21 hours ago, Pdawg88 said:

He’s too much of a narcissist to do that last part. 

agree.  there is a strong rumor in dallas media that he will be coaching in dallas in 2-3 years.  Stephen jones likes lincoln a lot. He is seen as a better version of the arizona cardinals coach Kingsberry .  Cowboy fans are not enamored with that idea at all , but want to get rid of McCarthy too.  

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AllenTx75

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21 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

There's some revisionist history in here.  Riley was Stoops' OC for a couple years before he took over.  OU went from 8-5 the year before hiring Riley as OC to 11-2 in the two years he was OC.  He played a major part in having a strong program to run.  If you want to discredit what Riley did because of what he inherited from Stoops the same thing applies to anything Venables accomplishes in the next couple years, but somehow I doubt all the asshurt Sooner fans now claiming Bob Stoops was personally responsible for every achievement over the last 5 years will give any credit to their former coach if Oklahoma does well this fall.  Before Riley coached them, Tech didn't think Mayfield was worth a scholarship and everybody thought Murray's future was in MLB instead of the NFL.  Neither of those guys were considered locks for winning the Heisman and going first overall in the draft pre-Riley.  Same with Jalen Hurts.  If he stayed at Alabama he goes pro in something other than sports rather than becoming a starter in the NFL.  Rattler was a bust, but those 3 plus Caleb Williams are all the real deal.  80% hit rate on QBs will get the job done.

As for recruiting, I was only bringing up defense because that's what we're discussing.  Unsurprisingly, offensive recruiting is going better.  For 2023 USC has commitments from the #2 QB (per 247), the #1 WR, a very high 4* WR who could be bumped up to 5* and a couple 4* RBs.  USC is the favorite to land the #1 TE.  Riley also brought in a borderline 5* RB and a high 4* WR in his transitional class last year.  This is all without throwing wads of cash around as USC just started its collective (sanction PTSD has caused USC to be overly cautious on NIL), another reason for optimism.  I expect USC's 2023 recruiting class to finish in the 8-12 range.  Currently it's 13th, but like I've said there are numerous elite targets still out there USC is favored to land.  9-10 wins this season and Riley is flipping some blue chips this fall.  2024 onward, once the collective is fully functional and relationships are established with recruits/HS coaches and other programs can no longer negatively recruit using Helton's reign of failure and USC is 1 of 2 programs west of the Rockies in a super conference, I expect top 5 yearly.

Sark is an amazing recruiter, but he won't win anything of note with the classes he signs.  The good news is if you nail the next hire you can expect instant success because the cupboard will be fully stocked.  If we replaced Sark with an average coach instead of the most clueless dipshit in college football USC makes at least 1 CFP appearance in 2016-17.  Thanks to Sark those teams were loaded with NFLers on both sides of the ball, but shitty coaching and a dash of Pac 12 schedulers fucking us over prevented any CFP berths.

good points overall but here are some pointers from my perspective

1- Lincoln did improve the OU offense indeed , but it has become stale the last 2 years and many defenses found it out. Note the disaster against LSU , and the losses to KSU twice and other games which OU barely won .  They should have lost the West Virginia game in norman ( managed only 14 points or so ) and it was all blamed on poor rattler.  OU almost lost to tulane and to nebraska in Norman .  needless to mention the defense under grinch was a disaster.  OU should have lost to the horns if not for divine intervention and a crazy few palys by Caleb.  Will see how he does with the offense at USC , albeit the big 12 defenses are a tad better than the pac 12 . 

2- if lincoln reaches 9 wins in the regular season then he has certainly elevated and he could have a good run.  The defense and the lack of physicality of his OU teams are hard to forget however since he esssentially took the same staff from Norman to LA. 

3- Not sure why you think Sark will fail here at texas.  Last year was not good for sure,  but interesting to note you think he has no chance in austin given all the talent. 

4- Lincoln is a great recruiter of elite offensive weapons ( Qbs , Wrs . RB). that am sure of .  But am not sure how the defense will stand up to Notre Dame , Utah , and maybe  Oregon .   UCLA and Stanford will be a test .   

 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28,215

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21 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

There's some revisionist history in here.  Riley was Stoops' OC for a couple years before he took over.  OU went from 8-5 the year before hiring Riley as OC to 11-2 in the two years he was OC.  He played a major part in having a strong program to run.  If you want to discredit what Riley did because of what he inherited from Stoops the same thing applies to anything Venables accomplishes in the next couple years, but somehow I doubt all the asshurt Sooner fans now claiming Bob Stoops was personally responsible for every achievement over the last 5 years will give any credit to their former coach if Oklahoma does well this fall.  Before Riley coached them, Tech didn't think Mayfield was worth a scholarship and everybody thought Murray's future was in MLB instead of the NFL.  Neither of those guys were considered locks for winning the Heisman and going first overall in the draft pre-Riley.  Same with Jalen Hurts.  If he stayed at Alabama he goes pro in something other than sports rather than becoming a starter in the NFL.  Rattler was a bust, but those 3 plus Caleb Williams are all the real deal.  80% hit rate on QBs will get the job done.

As for recruiting, I was only bringing up defense because that's what we're discussing.  Unsurprisingly, offensive recruiting is going better.  For 2023 USC has commitments from the #2 QB (per 247), the #1 WR, a very high 4* WR who could be bumped up to 5* and a couple 4* RBs.  USC is the favorite to land the #1 TE.  Riley also brought in a borderline 5* RB and a high 4* WR in his transitional class last year.  This is all without throwing wads of cash around as USC just started its collective (sanction PTSD has caused USC to be overly cautious on NIL), another reason for optimism.  I expect USC's 2023 recruiting class to finish in the 8-12 range.  Currently it's 13th, but like I've said there are numerous elite targets still out there USC is favored to land.  9-10 wins this season and Riley is flipping some blue chips this fall.  2024 onward, once the collective is fully functional and relationships are established with recruits/HS coaches and other programs can no longer negatively recruit using Helton's reign of failure and USC is 1 of 2 programs west of the Rockies in a super conference, I expect top 5 yearly.

Sark is an amazing recruiter, but he won't win anything of note with the classes he signs.  The good news is if you nail the next hire you can expect instant success because the cupboard will be fully stocked.  If we replaced Sark with an average coach instead of the most clueless dipshit in college football USC makes at least 1 CFP appearance in 2016-17.  Thanks to Sark those teams were loaded with NFLers on both sides of the ball, but shitty coaching and a dash of Pac 12 schedulers fucking us over prevented any CFP berths.

Fuck OU

Fuck Lincoln Riley 

and

 

image.gif.48837f32862c241d50bb58bb4e5817a8.gif

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14,805

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On 8/14/2022 at 11:10 PM, Trojan Man said:

There's some revisionist history in here.  Riley was Stoops' OC for a couple years before he took over.  OU went from 8-5 the year before hiring Riley as OC to 11-2 in the two years he was OC.  He played a major part in having a strong program to run.  If you want to discredit what Riley did because of what he inherited from Stoops the same thing applies to anything Venables accomplishes in the next couple years, but somehow I doubt all the asshurt Sooner fans now claiming Bob Stoops was personally responsible for every achievement over the last 5 years will give any credit to their former coach if Oklahoma does well this fall.  Before Riley coached them, Tech didn't think Mayfield was worth a scholarship and everybody thought Murray's future was in MLB instead of the NFL.  Neither of those guys were considered locks for winning the Heisman and going first overall in the draft pre-Riley.  Same with Jalen Hurts.  If he stayed at Alabama he goes pro in something other than sports rather than becoming a starter in the NFL.  Rattler was a bust, but those 3 plus Caleb Williams are all the real deal.  80% hit rate on QBs will get the job done.

As for recruiting, I was only bringing up defense because that's what we're discussing.  Unsurprisingly, offensive recruiting is going better.  For 2023 USC has commitments from the #2 QB (per 247), the #1 WR, a very high 4* WR who could be bumped up to 5* and a couple 4* RBs.  USC is the favorite to land the #1 TE.  Riley also brought in a borderline 5* RB and a high 4* WR in his transitional class last year.  This is all without throwing wads of cash around as USC just started its collective (sanction PTSD has caused USC to be overly cautious on NIL), another reason for optimism.  I expect USC's 2023 recruiting class to finish in the 8-12 range.  Currently it's 13th, but like I've said there are numerous elite targets still out there USC is favored to land.  9-10 wins this season and Riley is flipping some blue chips this fall.  2024 onward, once the collective is fully functional and relationships are established with recruits/HS coaches and other programs can no longer negatively recruit using Helton's reign of failure and USC is 1 of 2 programs west of the Rockies in a super conference, I expect top 5 yearly.

Sark is an amazing recruiter, but he won't win anything of note with the classes he signs.  The good news is if you nail the next hire you can expect instant success because the cupboard will be fully stocked.  If we replaced Sark with an average coach instead of the most clueless dipshit in college football USC makes at least 1 CFP appearance in 2016-17.  Thanks to Sark those teams were loaded with NFLers on both sides of the ball, but shitty coaching and a dash of Pac 12 schedulers fucking us over prevented any CFP berths.

Your post and the post above are both accurate and fair but Riley's biggest blind spot is S&C and for some reason, he brought the S&C guy with him.  OU regressed every year in regards to S&C to the point last season, they were getting pushed around by Tulane and Kansas.  His players also significantly underwhelmed at the combine.  I can't imagine SC's S&C is good and to expect Riley to build that up is something he's never done.  It's unlikely his SC teams will ever be elite unless he fixes that.

He's a good play caller but gets a little too cute sometimes.  His run game has been pretty much exposed at this point, too.

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Longboard Horn

Longboard Horn 41,350

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21 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Your post and the post above are both accurate and fair but Riley's biggest blind spot is S&C and for some reason, he brought the S&C guy with him.  OU regressed every year in regards to S&C to the point last season, they were getting pushed around by Tulane and Kansas.  His players also significantly underwhelmed at the combine.  I can't imagine SC's S&C is good and to expect Riley to build that up is something he's never done.  It's unlikely his SC teams will ever be elite unless he fixes that.

He's a good play caller but gets a little too cute sometimes.  His run game has been pretty much exposed at this point, too.

So by bringing the S&C guy with him to USC, does this mean the Trojans are gonna get pushed around by Oregon State and Arizona?

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21,345

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9 hours ago, 'stache said:

Riley's a good coach, he'll do fine. Venables sucks, they're gonna implode.

If only the power of positive thinking worked like that…Riley develops soft ass teams.  Have been saying it for years right here.  Will be fun to watch.  Season can’t get here fast enough.  
On the off chance you’re serious, lmk if you wanna bet on the implosion.  Name the dollar amount.  Free money.  

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