Who Do You Want Facing Russia?

[troph 24,563]

I vehemently support my tax dollars going to the war effort. My after tax dollars have been spent on several humanitarian efforts in Ukraine. I think both are needed.

(I also give to several local causes that touch me and we all should. It’s our civic duty to give time and money to causes that matter to us at levels that are meaningful to us under our individual circumstances)

Edited April 2 by troph

[Js1 85,115]

15 minutes ago, troph said:

several local causes that touch me

[troph 24,563]

Just now, Js1 said:

What can I say, cute lesbians who need a little financial support in exchange for admiration and affection touches me.

[SydneyCarton 47,885]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

"I've seen enough, and am calling this one for Biden."

Even if this poll had been posted in the DT, and not removed, I'm guessing most posters wouldn't have had the balls to vote for Trump. They just wouldn't have voted. 

[Captainant 27,468]

1 hour ago, troph said:

What can I say, cute lesbians who need a little financial support in exchange for admiration and affection touches me.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

wtf. Trump was the one who formally recognized Israel's sovereignty of the Golan Heights and Morocco's sovereignty over the western Sahara but somehow that is evidence that Biden is a hypocrite in his support for Ukraine. Make it make sense.

this doesn't make sense to you i guess:
 

Quote

 

In addition, Biden’s claim that the United States “always stands up to bullies” would be news to the Yemenis, Lebanese, Palestinians, and others who have been subjected to massive military attacks by U.S.-armed allies. His insistence that “we stand for freedom” is contradicted by his administration’s support for brutal dictatorships in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, and elsewhere. Criticism of Russia’s veto of the U.N. Security Council resolution condemning the invasion rings hollow in light of successive U.S. vetoes of resolutions challenging the U.S. invasions of Grenada and Panama, U.S. attacks on Nicaragua, and Israel’s invasions of Lebanon.

And, of course, Biden’s insistence that countries must not invade other nations on false pretenses is incredibly hypocritical considering his strident support as a Senator for the U.S. invasion of Iraq on the deceptive grounds that Saddam Hussein had somehow amassed vast arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, a nuclear program, and sophisticated delivery systems.

 

Then there is this, which I think only 3 of us on this board disagree with:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-signed-off-more-bombs-warplanes-israel-washington-post-reports-2024-03-29/

 

Quote

 

WASHINGTON, March 29 (Reuters) - The U.S. in recent days authorized the transfer of billions of dollars worth of bombs and fighter jets to Israel, two sources familiar with the effort said on Friday, even as Washington publicly expresses concerns about an anticipated Israeli military offensive in Rafah.

The new arms packages include more than 1,800 MK84 2,000-pound bombs and 500 MK82 500-pound bombs, said the sources, who confirmed a report in the Washington Post.

Washington gives $3.8 billion in annual military assistance to Israel, its longtime ally.

The package comes as Israel faces strong international criticism over its continued bombing campaign and ground offensive in Gaza and as some members of President Joe Biden's party call for him to cut U.S. military aid.

The United States has been rushing air defenses and munitions to Israel, but some Democrats and Arab American groups have criticized the Biden administration's steadfast support of Israel, which they say provides it with a sense of impunity.

 

Take care.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Even if this poll had been posted in the DT, and not removed, I'm guessing most posters wouldn't have had the balls to vote for Trump. They just wouldn't have voted. 

let's hope that's a harbinger for November

[GW Hayduke 1,952]

7 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

this doesn't make sense to you i guess:
 

Then there is this, which I think only 3 of us on this board disagree with:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-signed-off-more-bombs-warplanes-israel-washington-post-reports-2024-03-29/

 

Take care.

Spreading misinformation doesn't make sense to me. 

Biden didn't formally recognize Israel's hold of the Golan Heights or Morocco's hold of western Sahara.  Trump did.  The fact Trump did all of that isn't an indication Biden is a hypocrite for supporting Ukraine.

Don't spread misinformation.   

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

32 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Spreading misinformation doesn't make sense to me. 

Biden didn't formally recognize Israel's hold of the Golan Heights or Morocco's hold of western Sahara.  Trump did.  The fact Trump did all of that isn't an indication Biden is a hypocrite for supporting Ukraine.

Don't spread misinformation.   

Show me the quote that said Biden did that.  Maybe carefully re-read a sentence or two before going off on your high horse.  Edit: While I'm at it, why are you digging up your misinterpretation of what I posted in August of 2023?  Could you not have gone off in the wrong direction, oh I dunno, maybe within 3 to 4 months of me posting it?  Or are you incapable of reading dates as well? 
 

 

 

Edited April 2 by MC Fresh Breath

[956 Worldwide 34,444]

We talking about Grenada man. Grenada. Was this copy that Jacobin rejected for too-blatant Whataboutism? 

Never mind that it’s a really shitty entry in the classic genre, “someone did a Bad Thing once, which means he loses the right to do a Good Thing.” 
 

 

[GW Hayduke 1,952]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Show me the quote that said Biden did that.  Maybe carefully re-read a sentence or two before going off on your high horse.  Edit: While I'm at it, why are you digging up your misinterpretation of what I posted in August of 2023?  Could you not have gone off in the wrong direction, oh I dunno, maybe within 3 to 4 months of me posting it?  Or are you incapable of reading dates as well? 
 

 

 

I get that you are sensitive that I pointed out your misinformation. Be better.

Quote

For example, President Joe Biden has correctly asserted that “nations have a right to sovereignty and territorial integrity.” The United States, however, has been the only government in the world to formally recognize Israel’s illegal annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights and Morocco’s annexation of the entire nation of Western Sahara, both seized by force in defiance of the United Nations.

Because Trump formally recognized Israel's take of the Golan Heights and Morocco's take of western Sahara, isn't evidence Biden is a hypocrite for supporting Ukraine. You should acknowledge and apologize. Be better.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

I get that you are sensitive that I pointed out your misinformation. Be better.

Because Trump formally recognized Israel's take of the Golan Heights and Morocco's take of western Sahara, isn't evidence Biden is a hypocrite for supporting Ukraine. You should acknowledge and apologize. Be better.

wow.  OK.  guess I will bold it out for you:
 

Quote

For example, President Joe Biden has correctly asserted that “nations have a right to sovereignty and territorial integrity.” The United States, however, has...

This is obviously difficult for you.  That particular quote is saying that it is rich saying "nations have this right" when the US very selectively "cares" about said right.  The quote never once said Biden caused those issues. The quote about Biden being a hypocrite very rightfully dealt with his utter war mongering regarding Iraq. 

See?  Let me know if you need help dissecting other paragraphs of "misinformation." 

Quote

Be better.

I quite obviously already am. Your lack of reading comprehension doesn't require apologies from me.  But I will accept them from you if and when you have that moment of clarity.

 

[GW Hayduke 1,952]

8 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

wow.  OK.  guess I will bold it out for you:
 

This is obviously difficult for you.  That particular quote is saying that it is rich saying "nations have this right" when the US very selectively "cares" about said right.  The quote never once said Biden caused those issues. The quote about Biden being a hypocrite very rightfully dealt with his utter war mongering regarding Iraq. 

See?  Let me know if you need help dissecting other paragraphs of "misinformation." 

I quite obviously already am. Your lack of reading comprehension doesn't require apologies from me.  But I will accept them from you if and when you have that moment of clarity.

 

Suggest you not be so sensitive when folks call out your misinformation. Be better. If it wasn’t intentional, you should still be better and shouldn’t just blindly quote from weird sources to support your positions.

What Trump did isn’t evidence of anything about Biden - and pretending it does say anything about Biden is misinformation. 

[Dahobbs 17,449]

9 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

wow.  OK.  guess I will bold it out for you:
 

This is obviously difficult for you.  That particular quote is saying that it is rich saying "nations have this right" when the US very selectively "cares" about said right.  The quote never once said Biden caused those issues. The quote about Biden being a hypocrite very rightfully dealt with his utter war mongering regarding Iraq. 

See?  Let me know if you need help dissecting other paragraphs of "misinformation." 

I quite obviously already am. Your lack of reading comprehension doesn't require apologies from me.  But I will accept them from you if and when you have that moment of clarity.

 

We get it, you support Russia invading Ukraine and killing its people. 

As to whether the US's past wrong actions means it is wrong to support Ukraine: it doesn't. We can have been wrong before and right now. Ukraine deserves to have its freedom. Russia is undeniably a bad actor here. The fact that the US hasn't been perfect in the past is completely fucking irrelevant. 

[atomheartbevo 89,452]

37 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Ukraine deserves to have its freedom. Russia is undeniably a bad actor here. The fact that the US hasn't been perfect in the past is completely fucking irrelevant. 

Hell, you could even argue that if we were trying to right past wrongs, and actually stand up for democracies, helping Ukraine is a good start.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

We get it, you support Russia invading Ukraine and killing its people. 

 

So stupid. Holy shit.

Edited April 3 by MC Fresh Breath

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Suggest you not be so sensitive when folks call out your misinformation. Be better. If it wasn’t intentional, you should still be better and shouldn’t just blindly quote from weird sources to support your positions.

 

You keep doing your thing apparently.  If you keep repeating falsehoods it makes thing true. Accept you were wrong.  I'm done with this stupidity. 

[Dahobbs 17,449]

22 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

So stupid. Holy shit.

Yes, I agree, you are stupid. But, maybe you can explain how not providing military aid to Ukraine isn't in Russia's interest and doesn't indirectly support its invasion against Ukraine. For bonus points, explain why the US having done bad things in the past is at all relevant to this discussion. 

Edited April 3 by Dahobbs

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, I agree, you are stupid. But, maybe you can explain how not providing military aid to Ukraine isn't in Russia's interest and doesn't indirectly support its invasion against Ukraine.

because that's exactly what the original post I wrote said.  right?  so many of you on this board ironically exemplify everything you (rightfully) decry about maga.  Including, apparently, a real inability to read. good day.

[956 Worldwide 34,444]

25 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

because that's exactly what the original post I wrote said.  right?  so many of you on this board ironically exemplify everything you (rightfully) decry about maga.  Including, apparently, a real inability to read. good day.

You got people irritated by expressing your disapproval with the “bloodlust” of people who might want to fund some arms for Ukraine and listed a litany of things that better deserves our attention. 
 

But here’s what’s happening— a bunch of thugs are carrying shit out of your neighbors’ home.  They’re raping the women in the house and beating the shit out of the men.  They are shoving the kids in a truck to hold them hostage.

  And you agree it’s awful but just abhor violence. So you’ll be ready to maybe help buy a new refrigerator or to donate to a rape crisis center.

Which is fine! Good on you. The world needs those things. 

But don’t shout from your fainting couch that you are disgusted with those of us ready to hand our neighbor a gun. Don’t ask us why we are doing that instead of running to donate to the homeless shelter or UNICEF.  If you want to do that, go ahead but don’t shit-talk people who are ready to help solve the immediate problem.
 

Because the ethical short-circuit is on your end and not ours. You have a weak stomach and not a higher developed sense of ethics. Disgust is the right word, it’s an irrational emotional reaction that is not tied to right and wrong.  

Edited April 3 by 956 Worldwide

[Dahobbs 17,449]

32 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

because that's exactly what the original post I wrote said.  right?  so many of you on this board ironically exemplify everything you (rightfully) decry about maga.  Including, apparently, a real inability to read. good day.

Oh, so your post expressing disgust at those of us you want to use our own money to send weapons to Ukraine doesn't also imply that the US government shouldn't be sending military aid? Is there some moral distinction between individuals doing it and the government doing it? And your subsequent posts deriding the US government for supporting others militarily and committing wrongful acts in the past weren't meant to suggest that US shouldn't provide military aid to Ukraine? If your point wasn't that we shouldn't be spending money helping Ukraine militarily, then I honestly have no idea what idea you were attempting to express. Whatever it was, you did a horrible job mate. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

dafuq is going on in here?

Any American upset over the PENNIES we are spending to support Ukraine absolutely pants Russia is either an idiot or a traitor. 

[Dahobbs 17,449]

12 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

dafuq is going on in here?

Any American upset over the PENNIES we are spending to support Ukraine absolutely pants Russia is either an idiot or a traitor. 

And those pennies are mostly being spent with US companies. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

And those pennies are mostly being spent with US companies. 

yeah, that's how that works. we give them money to send their old shit to Ukraine to make way for new shit for us. what's the problem here?

[DigglerontheHoof 21,065]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, that's how that works. we give them money to send their old shit to Ukraine to make way for new shit for us. what's the problem here?

I think we're "blood lusting", but fuck if I know. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

I think we're "blood lusting", but fuck if I know. 

'splain. I don't want war - ever. I'm a pacifist at heart. And spare me the "the US isn't innocent" bullshit, but Russia openly attacked and plans to completely consume an ally and now member of NATO. we are compelled to do something and I am in favor of doing everything short of sending our men and women over there. So fuck yeah, throw money at the problem because if there is any nation in the world that can afford it, it's us. but quit with the piecemeal shit - send everything Ukraine needs to win and send it now. we could literally see Putin's regime toppled in our lifetimes if we armed Ukraine (and maybe a few other territories wanting independence) properly. Give them our toys and let them go to town. I simply don't see how any of that is bad for us. Quite the opposite from everything I can tell.