Texas judge orders SWA lawyers to take religious liberty training from far-right hate group

[TwiceHorn 31302]

18 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I blame Abilene Christian

I have always thought the Christers were the most dangerous fundagelical denomination (h/t Molly Ivins).

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

How.  How can you possibly say this with a straight face?  Please.  How?  

You think Dems are some fucking beacon unto humanity?

LO-freaking-L.

They are all fucked up.  Period.  We could site examples for days.

I hardly vote for one party.  I'm not a straight ticket dude at all.   The notion that one is better than the other is ludicrous insanity.

 

[Nivek 16864]

Sharia Law!

[South Austin 52158]

53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect the Fifth Circuit will have to reverse this, or risk giving Negroes and icky fags and dykes the ability to win discrimination suits.

Look, we’ll take the Negroes, the icky fags, and the dykes . . .

 

[Nivek 16864]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

You think Dems are some fucking beacon unto humanity?

LO-freaking-L.

They are all fucked up.  Period.  We could site examples for days.

I hardly vote for one party.  I'm not a straight ticket dude at all.   The notion that one is better than the other is ludicrous insanity.

 

So you can't name one then. 

[Zepol87 9172]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

You think Dems are some fucking beacon unto humanity?

LO-freaking-L.

They are all fucked up.  Period.  We could site examples for days.

I hardly vote for one party.  I'm not a straight ticket dude at all.   The notion that one is better than the other is ludicrous insanity.

 

This argument is so god damn stupid and tired

[TwiceHorn 31302]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

According to the judge, he viewed the changing of the wording from the court's injunction to what it said in its memo to employees as willful disobedience.  It was a poor call on their part; they should have just taken the language from the order verbatim.

 

The second memo regarding "don't be a dick" and telling its employees that SW disagreed with the decision and would be appealing in my view shouldn't have been sanctionable; court' s order could be viewed as unconstitutional violation of SW and its lawyers' free speech rights.  Of course the mandated religious re-education/indoctrination appears to me to be absolutely unconstitutional.  I guess we'll see how that moderate, careful thinking Fifth Circuit views it.

Don't you think though, that, while the 5th may be tempted to affirm because Jesus, they would be very wary of risking their carefully calculated impossible-to-get-to-a-jury prima facie burden shifting?

Sending aborted fetus pictures and other outrageous shit she did seems a lot less pretextual as a ground for termination than a lot of shit the Fifth Circuit sustains.

[DDD Dad 14253]

Obligatory:

Slorch'd!

[DDD Dad 14253]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't you think though, that, while the 5th may be tempted to affirm because Jesus, they would be very wary of risking their carefully calculated impossible-to-get-to-a-jury prima facie burden shifting?

Sending aborted fetus pictures and other outrageous shit she did seems a lot less pretextual as a ground for termination than a lot of shit the Fifth Circuit sustains.

Honestly I have no idea how a panel would deal with this.  You've got their traditional pro-employer history clashing with Jesus.

I wouldn't want to lay money on either outcome.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

Anyone who thinks 'both sides' are fucking over people after seeing what's going on over the last several years is either incredibly stupid or, more likely, mentally handicapped.  I guess what I'm trying to say is...take it easy on Slorch.  

[TwiceHorn 31302]

Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

Anyone who thinks 'both sides' are fucking over people after seeing what's going on over the last several years is either incredibly stupid or, more likely, mentally handicapped.  I guess what I'm trying to say is...take it easy on Slorch.  

Yeah, anything the left has done nasty in the last 50 years or so is heavy petting compared to the complete assraping the GQP has been delivering for the last 5-10.

[RDCanecutter 26290]

3 hours ago, Gap03 said:

So orders fucking U.S. District Judge Brantley Starr ...

Yeah, that checks out.  Fuck me.

 

If the judge business ever turns sour, he got a character actor part in a Roots remake sewn up.

"I say I say Y'ONNAH!"

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

2 hours ago, Lidig8r said:

I always feel like I need to take a shower after even looking in the Cloak Room especially since both major political parties long ago diverged from my beliefs. Nonetheless ...

First, court orders, especially on sanctions are always crafted by the Court.

Second, on page 13 - 14, the following language appears: "Carter seeks four  sanctions—attorney fees, a flat fine, a revised notice, and religious-liberty training. The Court considers each in turn." So, without looking at the Motion for Sanctions, it appears as if the plaintiff did seek that type of sanction.

Third, I don't know much about ADF and don't particularly care. But, the following language indicates why this judge chose ADF: "For instance, ADF recently agreed to “conduct a First Amendment training session” for three professors who allegedly discriminated against a student for posting “materials to her social media accounts” and sending “messages to fellow students” containing, among other things, religious views.78 And, in that case, the defendants allegedly cited their school policies as a reason to curtail religious speech.79 Because this case also involves an entity’s citation to its policies in an apparent attempt to end-run legal protections against religious discrimination based on online activities, ADF is particularly well-suited to train Southwest’s employees who are most responsible for the communications at issue here."

Magistrate Judge Starr also cited ADF as follows: "See, e.g., Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colo. Civil Rights Comm’n, 138 S. Ct. 1719, 1722 (2018) (recognizing that ADF was counsel on a successful Supreme Court appeal)."

The 29 page Order entered by the Court outlines some egregious conduct by Southwest Airlines and its inside counsel.

Now, I know this is the "Cloak Room" where all reason, logic, professionalism and mutual respect are not welcome.

As such, proceed with the usual ... "YOU'RE STUPID! NO, YOU'RE STUPID! NUH UH! HUH UH! WELL FUCK YOU! WELL FUCK YOU TOO!

Read this and get back to me about how even handed and reasonable this was 🙄

 

https://open.substack.com/pub/chrisgeidner/p/judge-orders-adf-religious-liberty-training?r=1m2ddv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[sidis 9755]

55 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why is it that every time someone ventures in here (and I assume every other political forum online) and pretends to be smarter than everyone else and above their petty partisan politics, they're actually a reactionary dipshit with the intelligence of a not-particularly-bright high school freshman? Just once I'd like to see one that comes across as possibly interesting.

Truly. Every single fucking time. And every time they’re challenged, they just retreat and act like they were trolling and then go cry all over the board about what a cesspool the forum is. It blows my fucking mind every time. Fucking idiots.

[TwiceHorn 31302]

Motherfucker needs to learn to tie a tie, also.

[DDD Dad 14253]

8 minutes ago, sidis said:

Truly. Every single fucking time. And every time they’re challenged, they just retreat and act like they were trolling and then go cry all over the board about what a cesspool the forum is. It blows my fucking mind every time. Fucking idiots.

I dunno. I’m gonna give lidig8r a pass knowing his personal and professional history. 
 

[Beau Vine 54008]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

Who are the corrupt Democrats?

Spoiler

HUNTER BIDEN!!!!!

 

[TwiceHorn 31302]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I dunno. I’m gonna give lidig8r a pass knowing his personal and professional history. 
 

Same.  And, he didn't quite come with the #bothsides suck schtick, either, although the CR foreword came close.

Maybe #bothsides did suck at one time in the distant past, but one side is now sucking at a much higher and more dangerous rate than the other.  The left is barely pulling a vacuum, these days, the right is in the mTorrs.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

55 minutes ago, slorch said:

You think Dems are some fucking beacon unto humanity?

Yes, you binary hayseed. The CR trope is Democrats are some fucking beacon unto humanity. I have often lamented "Dear Jesus, if I have to read one more post about how Dems are a fucking beacon unto humanity I am going to freak the fuck out". Good call!

[Zepol87 9172]

20 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I dunno. I’m gonna give lidig8r a pass knowing his personal and professional history. 
 

He’s a lawyer we get it.
 

I did meet him at happiest hour in Dallas one day from a shag meetup not a bad dude 

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

2 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Work and paying bills is something people need to do live. Whether it's the Taliban or Pedo evangelicals, work time is not you're goddamn church time. Perhaps religious lunatics should consider why more and more people are finding you repulsive and use their freedom to get away from you. 

ABNH is the best poster on this board.

[jimmyjazz 45565]

40 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Motherfucker needs to learn to tie a tie, also.

This ^^^.  How the hell can a man whose job "requires" a coat and tie most days not know how to tie a tie?  I knew how to do it when I was 10.  I wear a coat and tie approximately once every three years at this point -- funerals and weddings, and unfortunately, more funerals than weddings -- and I can still tie my tie in my sleep.

Plus, get a decent haircut.  I didn't cut my hair for over 2 years because covid and my job lets me work from home in my underwear, but a funeral popped up, and guess what?  Haircut.  Second funeral popped up, and guess what?  Haircut.  Act like a man when you're in court, visiting a client, in church, you name it.  Fucking Starrs.

Edited August 9, 2023 by jimmyjazz

[troph 24573]

4 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

"Don't be a Baylor grad, don't be a Baylor grad, don't be a Baylor grad"

 

Phew, ACU and UT Law

Baylor grad here…

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

13 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

He’s a lawyer we get it.
 

I did meet him at happiest hour in Dallas one day from a shag meetup not a bad dude 

And possibly good at what he does, but I'm willing to bet that far more often than not, he misses the forest for the trees--i.e., a "good lawyer" but not a  particularly great legal mind. NTTAWWT.

[jimmyjazz 45565]

21 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

binary hayseed

Dibs on the name for my new punkgrass band.  Lower case for emphasis.

Edited August 9, 2023 by jimmyjazz

[troph 24573]

2 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

 

That’s his daughter. I wouldn’t quote that if you know the whole story. He’s a good dude, wrong here but a really good dude. Frankly as between this crack pot ADF and him, well he’s the one doing the lord’s work. God love him and his daughter.

[sidis 9755]

38 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I dunno. I’m gonna give lidig8r a pass knowing his personal and professional history. 
 

Cool. I know nothing about him beyond the fact that he apparently enjoys rolling in with an uninformed hot take while laying bare that he doesn’t know anything about the organization that is the centerpiece of why people are expressing objections to the judge’s unprompted order…as well as passive aggressively attempting in vain to insult the intelligence and discourse of an entire forum that he made his unprompted entre preemptively throwing a metric ton of monkey shit against the wall pointlessly.

And that when challenged on it, he just disappears. 

So I don’t really give a shit. I can respect slorch a hell of a lot more than that nonsense. 

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

You think Dems are some fucking beacon unto humanity?

LO-freaking-L.

They are all fucked up.  Period.  We could site examples for days.

I hardly vote for one party.  I'm not a straight ticket dude at all.   The notion that one is better than the other is ludicrous insanity.

 

Bothsiderism nicely encapsulated here. ‘They’re both the same therefore I only vote for one of them’. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

You’re nothing if not entirely predictable. 

Just like Congress and our politicians, right?

When have we been positively surprised in our lifetimes?  Fucking never.

 

You see hope in politics.  I see it in the individual, in the mirror.  I'm never going to control what happens in Washington or Austin.  Never.  I damn sure control what happens in my house, in my family, and influence what kind of community I live in.

We just have different philosophies.  All I have to give are my results. Good husband, good father, good son.  Good citizen.  I'm good with that.  We should be so lucky they everyone did the same.  Instead we are expected to make excuses for their shortcomings.  Meh.  Fuck that.  Fuck the people on surly who get pissy because I don't hate the right person enough.  It's so fucking petty.

I'm no better than the next guy or gal.  I have no illusions otherwise, however, I damned sure don't see politicians as being one ounce better either, regardless of party affiliation.

Edited August 9, 2023 by slorch

[troph 24573]

49 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Same.  And, he didn't quite come with the #bothsides suck schtick, either, although the CR foreword came close.

Maybe #bothsides did suck at one time in the distant past, but one side is now sucking at a much higher and more dangerous rate than the other.  The left is barely pulling a vacuum, these days, the right is in the mTorrs.

To be fair there’s two kinds of sucking kinda like two kinds of fucking, the good kind and the not so good kind. Democrats can blow me anytime. 

7 minutes ago, sidis said:

Cool. I know nothing about him beyond the fact that he apparently enjoys rolling in with an uninformed hot take while laying bare that he doesn’t know anything about the organization that is the centerpiece of why people are expressing objections to the judge’s unprompted order…as well as passive aggressively attempting in vain to insult the intelligence and discourse of an entire forum that he made his unprompted entre preemptively throwing a metric ton of monkey shit against the wall pointlessly.

And that when challenged on it, he just disappears. 

So I don’t really give a shit. I can respect slorch a hell of a lot more than that nonsense. 

And you’d be dead ass wrong. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Motherfucker needs to learn to tie a tie, also.

Most egregious part of the entire deal, imo. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

8 minutes ago, slorch said:

When have we been positively surprised in our lifetimes?

Obamacare. I intentionally held on to the seniority I had accrued at my job after they dropped insurance waiting on the outcome of passage. It passed. I got a Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Texas Silver plan for 101 dollars a month and was able to stay on for years after. I apologize something good happened to me due to government. 

[sidis 9755]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

 

And you’d be dead ass wrong. 

About what?

Everything I said is precisely what happened in this thread. Your obvious personal affections notwithstanding, he came in here with a bunch of preemptive shit throwing in an effort to defend a judge attempting to legitimize and give authoritative deference to an indefensible organization with the sole purpose of making you subhuman for who you are while giving himself the most chickenshit possible cover of claiming to “not know or care about who they are” as if that isn’t the critical variable in the whole scenario.  All while insulting the other participants in the thread unprompted.

And wildcat was exactly right in calling him out for that horseshit…

i understand you are inclined to give him a pass like ddd. That doesn’t make any of the above untrue. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

28 minutes ago, troph said:

That’s his daughter. I wouldn’t quote that if you know the whole story. He’s a good dude, wrong here but a really good dude. Frankly as between this crack pot ADF and him, well he’s the one doing the lord’s work. God love him and his daughter.

Mods can feel free to edit his daughter out, but his decorum implication is MTG-Level. 

[Gatorubet 30121]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

They are both corrupt.  We as a society are brutally corrupt.

One side is NOT going to fix jack shit.

we are averse to accountability.  We live with the results.

[troph 24573]

5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Mods can feel free to edit his daughter out, but his decorum implication is MTG-Level. 

I don’t think he’s a christofacist. I could be wrong but most christofacists think I have cooties. I can confirm he doesn’t think that. 
 

I think he had a hot take, we are all prone to those from time to time and the CR isn’t really the place for them. 
 

ADF is what’s wrong with America as much as anyone or anything else. i think he would see that with some diligence.

[troph 24573]

14 minutes ago, sidis said:

About what?

Everything I said is precisely what happened in this thread. Your obvious personal affections notwithstanding, he came in here with a bunch of preemptive shit throwing in an effort to defend a judge attempting to legitimize and give authoritative deference to an indefensible organization with the sole purpose of making you subhuman for who you are while giving himself the most chickenshit possible cover of claiming to “not know or care about who they are” as if that isn’t the critical variable in the whole scenario.  All while insulting the other participants in the thread unprompted.

And wildcat was exactly right in calling him out for that horseshit…

i understand you are inclined to give him a pass like ddd. That doesn’t make any of the above untrue. 

I’d bet good money it was a hot take by a subject matter expert (litigator) who did not know how fucked up this ruling was. And to be fair it’s beyond the pale - barely believable - and thinking there is sanity here would be the likely starting point but for knowing who ADF is and then putting two and two together.  Again I think the only error (besides the general CR disclaimer) was making a fast conclusion without spending anytime looking at it based on what normally is true - judges don’t order sanctions unless asked for and conduct is egregious.  Fuck man, I’ve done that a few times - stupid conclusions not ask for or be subject to sanctions. It sucks, making stupid conclusion not sanctions I wouldn’t know.

Edited August 9, 2023 by troph

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

8 minutes ago, troph said:

I think he had a hot take, we are all prone to those from time to time and the CR isn’t really the place for them. 

If CR isn't the place for hot takes, then I don't even understand this janked up kooky world. 

[atomheartbevo 89456]

4 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Holy shit this dude was in my law school class.  Fucking hell.   I have never heard of him, though.  Man, Chip Roy and him in succession.  Geez.  

Also a very distant cousin of mine (3rd cousin realm) - never met him.

[atomheartbevo 89456]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

  Hide contents

HUNTER BIDEN!!!!!

 

After the 5th or 6th time of voting for him, I had to stop because i think the feds were getting wise to me.

[Ghost of LL 15493]

I’m still wondering what @Litig8r thinks was “reprehensible conduct” by Southwest.

[troph 24573]

16 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

If CR isn't the place for hot takes, then I don't even understand this janked up kooky world. 

I find the CR to have some of the smartest on this board with some of the most thoughtful analysis - yeah I’m serious. Those who troll and engage in stupidity generally get heckled or run out. Here it was a stupid take not trolling. I think I’m right on this one. 

[TwiceHorn 31302]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

I’m still wondering what @Litig8r thinks was “reprehensible conduct” by Southwest.

Well, it was a little sneaky and kind of shit-eating.  I'm sure SWA vehemently disagrees with the verdict, but that was kind of a foolish thing to do.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

8 minutes ago, troph said:

I find the CR to have some of the smartest on this board with some of the most thoughtful analysis - yeah I’m serious. Those who troll and engage in stupidity generally get heckled or run out. Here it was a stupid take not trolling. I think I’m right on this one. 

You can be short of Christofascist and balls-deep into Wrongsville. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, it was a little sneaky and kind of shit-eating.  I'm sure SWA vehemently disagrees with the verdict, but that was kind of a foolish thing to do.

Wut 

[troph 24573]

2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You can be short of Christofascist and balls-deep into Wrongsville. 

Agreed. ADF can lick my home grown tranny titties. Well actually they can’t they can fuck off and dream about it. 

[Ghost of LL 15493]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, it was a little sneaky and kind of shit-eating.  I'm sure SWA vehemently disagrees with the verdict, but that was kind of a foolish thing to do.

What was “it?” The first communication that used “does” rather than “will?” Because that seems at worst a little sneaky and kinda shit-eating. But probably more likely just a mis-assumption that it was close enough.

Hardly “reprehensible.”

Or was “it” the subsequent communication reminding employees of the Company’s employment policy against being an asshole and expressing disagreement with the Court’s judgment? Because that seems not just non-reprehensible, but constitutionally protected. Southwest Airlines Co., after all, is a person with constitutionally protected free-speech rights. And unless you think questioning the decisions of the Starr Chamber isn’t constitutionally protected speech, that ought not to be the “it” on which the sanctions are based.

But really, it was @Litig8r who deemed something “reprehensible.” And so I’d like to hear from him what he meant.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13551]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I apologize something good happened to me due to government.

Wanna make note that in approximately 3 months slorch will do a "what has government ever done!!!???" drive-by. 

[TwiceHorn 31302]

It hasn't been explicitly mentioned, but ADF is the outfit behind the revocation of FDA approval for mifepristone.

That is one of the most bizarre, outre, and flat-out fucking disturbing lawsuits I have ever seen.  They are Christofascists and they are coming for contraception.

[TwiceHorn 31302]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

What was “it?” The first communication that used “does” rather than “will?” Because that seems at worst a little sneaky and kinda shit-eating. But probably more likely just a mis-assumption that it was close enough.

Hardly “reprehensible.”

Or was “it” the subsequent communication reminding employees of the Company’s employment policy against being an asshole and expressing disagreement with the Court’s judgment? Because that seems not just non-reprehensible, but constitutionally protected. Southwest Airlines Co., after all, is a person with constitutionally protected free-speech rights. And unless you think questioning the decisions of the Starr Chamber isn’t constitutionally protected speech, that ought not to be the “it” on which the sanctions are based.

But really, it was @Litig8r who deemed something “reprehensible.” And so I’d like to hear from him what he meant.

Well the court told them to say they "may not" discriminate.  SWA said it "does not" discriminate, which in addition to mincing the courts words, kind of thumbs its nose at the verdict and the courts orders.

It's not reprehensible.  It is pretty foolish in my opinion.  It is, also, seemingly a weird thing for the court to order in the first place.  Common in your experience?