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Texas judge orders SWA lawyers to take religious liberty training from far-right hate group

Pancho

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wildcat09

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11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You're talking to the kind of people who genuinely think/believe that when driving past a cop, the average black person's asshole doesn't pucker any tighter than the average white person's asshole.  They live in a fantasy land where while people don't have it easier, and black people have nothing to worry about.

That's the lie they tell. They know black people are nervous around cops, they just think that black people should be nervous around cops.

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DDD Dad

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4 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I guess he is black, I didn’t even think about it. It must be terrible to constantly think about one’s race, I’m truly sorry you have to live that way. 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2023/08/04/we-almost-died-arkansas-family-recounts-traumatic-traffic-stop-by-frisco-police/

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I saw a kid celebrating a dream come true with family and friends. I couldn’t even imagine reducing him to his skin color at that moment. I pity people like Pancho, they must live in constant hell. 

 

nandor-fucking-guy.gif

 

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DDD Dad

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3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Ok… what does this have to do with Colin committing to Texas?

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If you can't understand how race affects pretty much every aspect of a black person's life in this country I can't help you.  That incident in Frisco (where a completely innocent family was stopped, held at gunpoint, threatened, and cuffed for being...black in Frisco.

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Poe It Up

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1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

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If you can't understand how race affects pretty much every aspect of a black person's life in this country I can't help you.  That incident in Frisco (where a completely innocent family was stopped, held at gunpoint, threatened, and cuffed for being...black in Frisco.

So you can’t enjoy a commitment ceremony without thinking about the Frisco situation? Like I said, what a nightmare. 

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Pancho

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39 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

You’re taking one of the best days of this kid’s life and making it about his race, that’s what miserable people do. You’ve made a choice to think that way and it has nothing to do with your skin color. It will always taint your enjoyment until you break free from it, but I really think you will one day. 

2 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I saw a kid celebrating a dream come true with family and friends. I couldn’t even imagine reducing him to his skin color at that moment. I pity people like Pancho, they must live in constant hell. 

Poor poe.

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It must be difficult for you to come to terms that you're just proving White Privilege and CRT are actual things. I didn't make it about his race or reduce him to a skin color. I pointed out an fact. 

And congrats for admitting Black people live in hell in America when they have to constantly think about (consciously and subconsciously) their race in everything they do. Good job poe! I proud of you admitting it. But that's not what my argument was about the recruit. You "made a choice" to not look at the context of the argument, which is sad. 

And then poe says he didn't know Simmons was Black but then comes back to the website to say he "saw a kid celebrating a dream come true with his family an friends" which means, yes, you did know he was Black. No one reduced him to his skin color rather I just pointed it out because it's true. Isn't that what you and your people do--"jUsT sTAtingG FaCtS!?!"

No, I don't live in constant hell so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything or where it even comes from. I'm sure you live in constant hell though, you know flipping and flopping and purposely misrepresenting things to bend to your agenda. Right?

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Poe It Up

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10 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Poor poe.

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It must be difficult for you to come to terms that you're just proving White Privilege and CRT are actual things. I didn't make it about his race or reduce him to a skin color. I pointed out an fact. 

And congrats for admitting Black people live in hell in America when they have to constantly think about (consciously and subconsciously) their race in everything they do. Good job poe! I proud of you admitting it. But that's not what my argument was about the recruit. You "made a choice" to not look at the context of the argument, which is sad. 

And then poe says he didn't know Simmons was Black but then comes back to the website to say he "saw a kid celebrating a dream come true with his family an friends" which means, yes, you did know he was Black. No one reduced him to his skin color rather I just pointed it out because it's true. Isn't that what you and your people do--"jUsT sTAtingG FaCtS!?!"

No, I don't live in constant hell so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything or where it even comes from. I'm sure you live in constant hell though, you know flipping and flopping and purposely misrepresenting things to bend to your agenda. Right?

I don’t think black people are miserable, I think you are. Either way, I wish you well. I know you’re involved in education and that’s a profession I respect, even if I disagree with you on everything.

 

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A-Tex Devil

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1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Again, reading is very important in these discussions. That wasn’t said at all. We were discussing this player committing to Texas and Pancho’s need to point out he’s black. It’s sad to me that he looks at Colin and that’s what he sees. 

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Js1

Js1 85121

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

There really is not much better evidence of the existence of white privilege than when a white person says "I've never had to think about my race at all, much less daily, why should you"?

I think about my race every day. That’s bc we live in a place with no clouds and it’s 102 outside and if even look out the window, I start to sunburn 

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DDD Dad

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58 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I don’t think black people are miserable, I think you are. Either way, I wish you well. I know you’re involved in education and that’s a profession I respect, even if I disagree with you on everything.

 

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8064

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On 8/8/2023 at 3:22 PM, SimonBolivar said:

"Don't be a Baylor grad, don't be a Baylor grad, don't be a Baylor grad"

 

Phew, ACU and UT Law

 

On 8/8/2023 at 3:45 PM, Nivek said:

Of course, he is related to Kenn Starr.  I wonder how he feels about rape? 

take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face.

Found your Baylor connection

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Pancho

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3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

I don’t think black people are miserable, I think you are. Either way, I wish you well. I know you’re involved in education and that’s a profession I respect, even if I disagree with you on everything.

 

No poe, I'm not miserable. I know you really, really, really want to be right on that, like all you people do. You're wrong, yet again. I'm currently sitting in a suite at the Cosmopolitan and about to get a steak dinner at Wynn (or a badass Mexican restaurant off strip--can't decide) before free drinks at Resorts World. Why would I be miserable? 

That's the problem with you people--you equate real world problems with minorities as them being miserable. While you want it to be true so badly, it's just not. Just go to any Black cookout. I can enjoy my life and be happy and also fight for justice for what is happening to Blacks as it is wrong and unAmerican. Those things are not mutually exclusive, and communicating to you and your people that yes, this are things that still happen to Black people in America and we need to fix them doesn't mean our lives are miserable. 

I'm so sorry Poe that you had to grow up around people and in a household that taught you that if you aren't grateful for x that must only then mean you are miserable and hate your life. That line of thinking, unfortunately, comes from generations of hurt and trauma that your family and people bestowed upon you that you're now about to bestow upon your own children (which I also feel very sorry for and they'll be on my prayer list).

 

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DDD Dad

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18 minutes ago, Pancho said:

That's the problem with you people--you equate real world problems with minorities as them being miserable. While you want it to be true so badly, it's just not. Just go to any Black cookout. I can enjoy my life and be happy and also fight for justice for what is happening to Blacks as it is wrong and unAmerican. Those things are not mutually exclusive, and communicating to you and your people that yes, this are things that still happen to Black people in America and we need to fix them doesn't mean our lives are miserable. 

 

 

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Nivek

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2 hours ago, Pancho said:

No poe, I'm not miserable. I know you really, really, really want to be right on that, like all you people do. You're wrong, yet again. I'm currently sitting in a suite at the Cosmopolitan and about to get a steak dinner at Wynn (or a badass Mexican restaurant off strip--can't decide) before free drinks at Resorts World. Why would I be miserable? 

That's the problem with you people--you equate real world problems with minorities as them being miserable. While you want it to be true so badly, it's just not. Just go to any Black cookout. I can enjoy my life and be happy and also fight for justice for what is happening to Blacks as it is wrong and unAmerican. Those things are not mutually exclusive, and communicating to you and your people that yes, this are things that still happen to Black people in America and we need to fix them doesn't mean our lives are miserable. 

I'm so sorry Poe that you had to grow up around people and in a household that taught you that if you aren't grateful for x that must only then mean you are miserable and hate your life. That line of thinking, unfortunately, comes from generations of hurt and trauma that your family and people bestowed upon you that you're now about to bestow upon your own children (which I also feel very sorry for and they'll be on my prayer list).

 

I kind of thought it was the opposite.   Maybe the generations of oppression and struggle against injustice allowed people to develop a skill to detach and enjoy life.  

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Beau Vine

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13 hours ago, sidis said:

I can’t believe that no one in this thread has put it together that this guy went to Abeliene Christian for undergrad and UT for law school…precisely the same path as our very own jurist supérieur Johnny Sack. 

Had no idea that Sack went to ACU.  Explains a lot...

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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3424

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On 8/9/2023 at 1:08 PM, Lidig8r said:

Ghost, I will respond later on.  Have been up to my eyeballs today. My statement was based on the reading of the Order, any my interpretation of what SW Airlines was ordered to do and what SW Airlines actually did. It has nothing to do with the merits (or the lack thereof) of the underlying case. And, as I understand it, those actions were dictated by the three in-house counsel.

Hi @Lidig8r - not sure if you're still up to your eyeballs but wondering if you've had a chance to evaluate @Ghost of LL's request for SWA's "reprehensible conduct", the "religious freedom training" that you claimed (in error) to be requested by plaintiff, the ability of ADF to conduct such training you defended (in error), or just had a change to educate yourself on any aspect of ADF in general.

I know we CR'ers tend to be beneath you but was hoping you would have a chance to show us a little reason, logic, professionalism and mutual respect. After all, @TwiceHorn, @DDD Dad, and @troph all suggested you seem like you're a good dude, not an asshole. As is it, is sure does seem like you are up to your eyeballs in something, I'm just not sure that it's not bullshit.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19449

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Maybe Poe is a super nice, non-racist guy IRL.  Who the fuck knows?  I do know that IRL, all of us, regardless of our own skin color or background should try to be more understanding of the just concerns of all people, all around us.  

Having said that, I would fucking love to see Poe at a Black Cookout.  I don't know how he's gonna score the invite to begin with, and I know he'd be treated with hospitality and friendliness.  But I just wanna see him go, "As a 7nth generation Texan who knows how to barbecue, I have tell you that you're charring the hot dogs by cooking them that way.  And why would you wear leather shoes like that?  All that charcoal and ash will ruin 'em."  

 

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Brian Fantana

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On 8/11/2023 at 3:32 PM, Poe It Up said:

I don’t think black people are miserable, I think you are. Either way, I wish you well. I know you’re involved in education and that’s a profession I respect, even if I disagree with you on everything.

 

I hope you keep yourself safe

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Ghost of LL

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Southwest is petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  And they're definitely gearing up to fight on the judgment.

 

My knowledge of the Southwest General Counsel's office is a little out of date.  I still know a handful of the lawyers who are there.  But regardless--my impression is that they don't take shit lying down.  At least historically, they have a culture of litigating pretty aggressively.  

So I'm only mildly surprised that they're petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  But I'm not at all surprised to see them getting ready to take that judgment to SCOTUS.

Edited by Ghost of LL
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Serak The Preparer

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3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Southwest is petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  And they're definitely gearing up to fight on the judgment.

 

My knowledge of the Southwest General Counsel's office is a little out of date.  I still know a handful of the lawyers who are there.  But regardless--my impression is that they don't take shit lying down.  At least historically, they have a culture of litigating pretty aggressively.  

So I'm only mildly surprised that they're petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  But I'm not at all surprised to see them getting ready to take that judgment to SCOTUS.

That's cool and all but I'm gonna go ahead and wait to see what @Lidig8r thinks about this when he gets some spare time.

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TwiceHorn

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4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Southwest is petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  And they're definitely gearing up to fight on the judgment.

 

My knowledge of the Southwest General Counsel's office is a little out of date.  I still know a handful of the lawyers who are there.  But regardless--my impression is that they don't take shit lying down.  At least historically, they have a culture of litigating pretty aggressively.  

So I'm only mildly surprised that they're petitioning for mandamus on the sanctions order.  But I'm not at all surprised to see them getting ready to take that judgment to SCOTUS.

IIRC, mandamus has no further appeal?  They'll just have to eat it until judgment is final and appealable and make it part of that?

Or am I off there?

The point being, I'm not sure they can hope for much relief on this side of a religious liberty issue with the Fifth.  At least they aren't pitting some kind of gay rights against Starr's freedom to be a prig.  That would be a disaster all the way around.

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

Posted
Posted
. Why would I be miserable? 
That's the problem with you people--you equate real world problems with minorities as them being miserable. While you want it to be true so badly, it's just not. Just go to any Black cookout.
 


That’s a great suggestion. I think he should also INSIST on bringing the potato salad.
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Ghost of LL

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12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

IIRC, mandamus has no further appeal?  They'll just have to eat it until judgment is final and appealable and make it part of that?

Or am I off there?

The point being, I'm not sure they can hope for much relief on this side of a religious liberty issue with the Fifth.  At least they aren't pitting some kind of gay rights against Starr's freedom to be a prig.  That would be a disaster all the way around.

So it appears that they're not petitioning for mandamus.  It's just an appeal of the sanctions order.  I'm not exactly sure how that is jurisdictional under Section 1291, which limits appellate jurisdiction to "final orders" of the district court.  But I think it's a separate appeal from their appeal of the judgment under the collateral-order doctrine.

In any event, expect some real strategic action on the part of the Fifth Circuit judges on this.  They don't want this going to SCOTUS, because it's liable to make some real bad law for the Christian Nationalists.  It's going to be real interesting to see how they handle this.

12 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I've been long on LUV stock for a long time.  Skadden Arps is expensive. 

I don't see this exercise as a good use of LUV's money, certainly not a hill to die on. 

Just a weird fact situation -- get it resolved and resume moving folks around the country. 

As I said above, I'm mildly surprised they're appealing.  And as I said further above, the general corporate feel on this would be just to have the lawyers go do their day of religious indoctrination, because we're in the business of flying airplanes, not fighting culture wars.

But I'll also say that Southwest is a bit different from the standard corporate culture.  And the Southwest GC Department has traditionally been part of that.  They take very seriously the idea that "we stand up for our people."  We're not going to allow a nutbar flight attendant cyberbully her coworkers, even if Jesus told her to do so.  And we're not going to let a federal judge impose a plainly unconstitutional and illegal sanction on our in-house lawyers.

And yeah--it costs some money to stick up for your people.  But if you're loyal to your people, then they'll reciprocate.  You have their back--and they know you have their back--and they'll have yours.  But if you don't, then they won't.  

And so yeah--it costs some money.  But it's an investment.  And I think it's an investment that's important to make and that usually pays off.

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TwiceHorn

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19 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

In any event, expect some real strategic action on the part of the Fifth Circuit judges on this.  They don't want this going to SCOTUS, because it's liable to make some real bad law for the Christian Nationalists.  It's going to be real interesting to see how they handle this.

12 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Yeah I kind of bit my tongue on whether SCOTUS would be any better forum than CTA5 here, but despite being highly "shook" in that department, I am less certain of the outcome at SCOTUS than at CTA5.

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9838

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20 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I've been long on LUV stock for a long time.  Skadden Arps is expensive. 

I don't see this exercise as a good use of LUV's money, certainly not a hill to die on. 

Just a weird fact situation -- get it resolved and resume moving folks around the country. 

There could be a benefactor involved.

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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3424

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2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Has @Lidig8r explained what was so reprehensible about Southwest's conduct yet?

No, not his factually incorrect summary of the ruling (while simultaneously holding himself above CR level of reasoning). He has been busy posting in multiple other threads, and in a blog post complaining about "social injustice warriors" and "insipid" use of pronouns. I am beginning to think he is not the genial paragon of insight and wisdom that he makes himself out to be. Still giving him a pass @TwiceHorn and @DDD Dad?

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wildcat09

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36 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

No, not his factually incorrect summary of the ruling (while simultaneously holding himself above CR level of reasoning). He has been busy posting in multiple other threads, and in a blog post complaining about "social injustice warriors" and "insipid" use of pronouns. I am beginning to think he is not the genial paragon of insight and wisdom that he makes himself out to be. Still giving him a pass @TwiceHorn and @DDD Dad?

I have only vague memories of him as a poster from years back, but I remember thinking he was a normal dude. 2020 just absolutely fried some people's brains.

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Brew

Brew 3049

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48 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

No, not his factually incorrect summary of the ruling (while simultaneously holding himself above CR level of reasoning). He has been busy posting in multiple other threads, and in a blog post complaining about "social injustice warriors" and "insipid" use of pronouns. I am beginning to think he is not the genial paragon of insight and wisdom that he makes himself out to be. Still giving him a pass @TwiceHorn and @DDD Dad?

I find it entertaining that you think some random guy you don’t know on the internet owes you an explanation of anything. Agree, disagree, whatever you want to do with his original post, but to still be going on about it this much after the fact is a little ridiculous.

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Horn Dog

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3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Has @Lidig8r explained what was so reprehensible about Southwest's conduct yet?

Look.  He is a small government, freedom loving conservative who just wants the government to mandate religious indoctrination onto private companies and their employees.    Why is this so difficult to understand??

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31302

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1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

No, not his factually incorrect summary of the ruling (while simultaneously holding himself above CR level of reasoning). He has been busy posting in multiple other threads, and in a blog post complaining about "social injustice warriors" and "insipid" use of pronouns. I am beginning to think he is not the genial paragon of insight and wisdom that he makes himself out to be. Still giving him a pass @TwiceHorn and @DDD Dad?

I don't care.  This has gotten oddly obsessive.

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