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Abilene prison guard not allowed breaks, gives birth to stillborn; State of Texas says "No, your fetus had no rights"

Pancho

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Pancho

Pancho 44766

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On a warm November night, Salia Issa had just begun her shift as an Abilene prison officer when she felt the intense pain of what she believed was a contraction.

Seven months pregnant, Issa said she quickly alerted her supervisors. She told them she needed to go to the hospital but knew prison policy wouldn’t allow her to leave her post until someone could replace her.

No one came for hours.

Issa kept calling for relief, but her supervisor repeatedly refused her, even telling her she was lying, according to a federal lawsuit filed against the Texas Department of Criminal Justice and prison officials.

“You just want to go home,” the supervisor allegedly told her.

Eventually, two and a half hours after the pain started, the expectant mother said she was allowed to leave the Middleton Unit. As quickly as the pain would allow her, Issa drove to a nearby hospital, where doctors rushed her into emergency surgery after being unable to find a fetal heartbeat. The baby was delivered stillborn.

If Issa had gotten to the hospital sooner, medical personnel told her, the baby would have survived, the lawsuit claims.

Nearly a year later, Issa and her husband, Fiston Rukengeza, on behalf of themselves and their unborn child, sued TDCJ and three of Issa’s supervisors — Brandy Hooper, Desmond Thompson and Alonzo Hammond. They argue the state caused the death of their child by violating state and federal laws as well as the U.S. Constitution, and they are seeking money to cover medical costs and funeral expenses and to compensate for pain and suffering.

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But the prison agency and the Texas attorney general’s office, which has staked its reputation on “defending the unborn” all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, are arguing the agency shouldn’t be held responsible for the stillbirth because staff didn’t break the law. Plus, they said, it’s not clear that Issa’s fetus had rights as a person.

“Just because several statutes define an individual to include an unborn child does not mean that the Fourteenth Amendment does the same,” the Texas attorney general’s office wrote in a March footnote, referring to the constitutional right to life.

 

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Js1

Js1 85318

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Is there a GQP infographic explaining when fetuses do and don't have rights?  Asking for a friend.

Whenever they say it does and whenever they say it doesn’t. Why is that so hard?

Edited by Js1
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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76928

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1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

If a prisoner had bonked her in the stomach with a broom and the fetus came out stillborn, they'd be tacking decades onto the sentence for killing an unborn child.

Well which is it, baboon Texas lawmen, do I freeze, or do I hit the floor?


had she googled how to self abort, and made an attempt, she’d be facing criminal charges 

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Cap33

Cap33 384

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I wonder if she filed a workers' comp claim? Even if she did not, her individual damages claims for physical injury and resulting mental trauma are barred because workers' comp benefits are her exclusive remedy for OTJ injuries. (All state agencies have workers' comp.) The husband's claims are likely similarly barred. The only cause of action she and the husband might have left is that the employer intentionally caused her injury. That kind of claim isn't barred by workers' comp, but it's also really hard to prove.

All that aside, the dumbfucks who continue to support and elect these assholes won't care a lick about the hypocrisy and instead will just blame the woman for not doing enough to save her child.

Edited by Cap33
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Cap33

Cap33 384

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And not trying to diminish their loss at all. What a terrible, tragic situation. Working in the Texas prison system has got to be one of the worst jobs imaginable, particularly for women. I hope they find a way to hold TDCJ accountable.

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7039

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2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Cracking Up Lol GIF by HULU 

Also, this thread should be in Daily Texan.

It is. 

Another example to toss on the pile of the regression of worker protections back to barbaric industrial revolution levels. Going to need to union up and start attacking corporate executives and their families again

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Captainant

Captainant 27660

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5 minutes ago, GoPokes83 said:

Why didn’t she just clock out and leave? Not excusing the lady’s bosses at all, but if I’m having a stroke or heart attack I’m not going to finish my shift just because some Lumbergh tells me it’d be great if I stuck around.

Because in a world where your employer controls how much healthcare you have access to, workers have been conditioned to kowtow to every demand their employers throw at them. Even to their immediate detriment.

And an almost due mother in Texas definitely has good reason to fear losing her healthcare.

God bless America. May our costs be forever down and profits forever up. 

Edited by Captainant
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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9829

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22 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So can she sue Abbott, her bosses, her bosses, and every member of the legislature for the abortion bounty and collect?   Can I?

Now we are fuckin talking!  Maybe we can energize the Surly legal team and file a class action lawsuit representing every surly user for around $2 trillion dollars and upgrade the lounge room.

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Captain Ron

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1 hour ago, GoPokes83 said:

Why didn’t she just clock out and leave? Not excusing the lady’s bosses at all, but if I’m having a stroke or heart attack I’m not going to finish my shift just because some Lumbergh tells me it’d be great if I stuck around.

Spoken like someone that doesn’t have to work as a prison guard 7 months pregnant. 

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Because in a world where your employer controls how much healthcare you have access to, workers have been conditioned to kowtow to every demand their employers throw at them. Even to their immediate detriment.

And an almost due mother in Texas definitely has good reason to fear losing her healthcare.

God bless America. May our costs be forever down and profits forever up. 

My sister was a first year teacher when she had her kid and the way that ended up in the school year she had to go back 5 days after having the kid or she would've lost healthcare.

Edited by SimonBolivar
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Js1

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1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

Now we are fuckin talking!  Maybe we can energize the Surly legal team and file a class action lawsuit representing every surly user for around $2 trillion dollars and upgrade the lounge room.

Texas Football sponsored by Surly Horns once we win that lawsuit 

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txhorns

txhorns 2409

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1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

My sister was a first year teacher when she had her kid and the way that ended up in the school year she had to go back 5 days after having the kid or she would've lost healthcare.

My wife had one of our children as a first year teacher in Texas and did not lose healthcare despite staying on maternity leave for 6 weeks.

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Scheiss Meister

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4 hours ago, GoPokes83 said:

Why didn’t she just clock out and leave? Not excusing the lady’s bosses at all, but if I’m having a stroke or heart attack I’m not going to finish my shift just because some Lumbergh tells me it’d be great if I stuck around.

First, even as a guard, you aren't just walking your happy ass out of a prison.  There is a process, at any point of which her supervisor can turn her around.  Second, do you want prison guards just leaving their posts without relief?  That seems like a bad precedent to me.  Last, as has been pointed out, if she just walks out, she loses her job and healthcare.  If she had done as you suggest and successfully given birth, as a newly fired new mother, what do you think her chances of getting another job with healthcare coverage are?  If she had great job prospects, she wouldn't be working as an underpaid prison guard in a chronically understaffed prison system.

Not all jobs are jobs that you can just walk out of, and not everyone has the prospects to just walk off of even the jobs where that's possible.

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Captainant

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6 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

Not all jobs are jobs that you can just walk out of, and not everyone has the prospects to just walk off of even the jobs where that's possible.

For anyone not catching on: it is a massive privilege to be able to just leave a job you don't like. For many, probably the vast majority of people, that option simply doesn't exist. Life for most is too uncertain and unstable to elect to just quit a shitty and dangerous job if they don't have something else lined up immediately 

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BLKNSTY

BLKNSTY 289

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Why didn’t she just clock out and leave? Not excusing the lady’s bosses at all, but if I’m having a stroke or heart attack I’m not going to finish my shift just because some Lumbergh tells me it’d be great if I stuck around.

pretty sure they’re immigrants. no way an American-born wouldn’t just leave.
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Stilicho

Stilicho 1397

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2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We are so incredibly cruel as a nation, as a state. Needlessly so.  We are so wealthy and so blessed and yet cruel. I’m just trying to process all that happened to get here, for this to happen to a woman working for our government.  

Power and fear, in all directions.

Fear that if they lose power, they will be the subject to the same treatment they have perpetrated for... the last 400ish years?

Power to ensure that those fears never come to pass, regardless of how much hypocrisy, blood, and cruelty are required.

If things start to slide the other direction, the carnival barkers whip them back up into a frenzy and the process repeats.

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Gatorubet

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Under Louisiana law, a baby that never takes a breath, regardless of age of the fetus, is not a person who can make a claim for their never having lived.   If the baby dies two minutes later, then you can bring a wrongful death and/or survival action against the people responsible for the baby not living…. But only after they drew one breath first.

So we can charge a physician criminally who aborted a first term fetus, but you can’t sue that same physician who’s malpractice caused the death of that same infant at nine months if they were stillborn due to physician negligence. ‘Cause laws. 

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Rudiger

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20 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

If a prisoner had bonked her in the stomach with a broom and the fetus came out stillborn, they'd be tacking decades onto the sentence for killing an unborn child.

Well which is it, baboon Texas lawmen, do I freeze, or do I hit the floor?

Friday Movie GIF

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Bullneck

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21 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

If a prisoner had bonked her in the stomach with a broom and the fetus came out stillborn, they'd be tacking decades onto the sentence for killing an unborn child.

Well which is it, baboon Texas lawmen, do I freeze, or do I hit the floor?

 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6685

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7 hours ago, GoPokes83 said:

Why didn’t she just clock out and leave? Not excusing the lady’s bosses at all, but if I’m having a stroke or heart attack I’m not going to finish my shift just because some Lumbergh tells me it’d be great if I stuck around.

How can you possibly be this fucking stupid?

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BLKNSTY

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I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or not.

not at all. the prison system and meat processing (especially in the panhandle) are notorious for exploiting immigrants by taking advantage of their green card status. shut up do your job or the various agencies we have connections with will hold your path to citizenship hostage. the 102 children as young as 13 working hazardous overnight jobs cleaning slaughterhouses is another example.
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956 Worldwide

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8 hours ago, Captainant said:

Because in a world where your employer controls how much healthcare you have access to, workers have been conditioned to kowtow to every demand their employers throw at them. Even to their immediate detriment.

And an almost due mother in Texas definitely has good reason to fear losing her healthcare.

God bless America. May our costs be forever down and profits forever up. 

Not only is fear of losing healthcare a major tool for exploitative practices, it’s a serious brake on creativity, entrepreneurship, and labor mobility. The number of people who never start a business or never take a chance on new jobs because of the rational fear of losing healthcare is astounding.

Our current system has nothing to do with the market or capitalism or socialism. It has everything to do with privileging the insurance and Big Health over almost every other industry or sector. Not only is profit driven health care morally grotesque, it’s a huge economic drag. 

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austingirl

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1 hour ago, BLKNSTY said:


not at all. the prison system and meat processing (especially in the panhandle) are notorious for exploiting immigrants by taking advantage of their green card status. shut up do your job or the various agencies we have connections with will hold your path to citizenship hostage. the 102 children as young as 13 working hazardous overnight jobs cleaning slaughterhouses is another example.

Sure, I'm not contesting that point; I'm contesting the idea that no American citizen would've stayed at their post. There are plenty of Americans who can't just leave their jobs without supervisor permission, even in dire situations.

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Brisketexan

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Whenever they say it does and whenever they say it doesn’t. Why is that so hard?

Because the “pro life” movement isn’t about life, never has been. It’s about control, period. The “conservatives” want laws that they can use to control others, not laws that control THEM.
Stop complicating this. It’s very simple. It’s fascism.
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wild_turkey

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not at all. the prison system and meat processing (especially in the panhandle) are notorious for exploiting immigrants by taking advantage of their green card status.


Is this even true? If so, what is your source?

I have done extensive contract work for 2 different Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities in Texas, and at no time did I encounter guards who I would think are non-U.S. citizens. On top of that, the security check to become a BOP employee (or contractor, in my case) is fairly rigorous.
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TwiceHorn

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8 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Is this even true? If so, what is your source?

I have done extensive contract work for 2 different Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities in Texas, and at no time did I encounter guards who I would think are non-U.S. citizens. On top of that, the security check to become a BOP employee (or contractor, in my case) is fairly rigorous.

 

I don't know that TDCJ is as rigorous as FBOP, but I'm not sure that lack of rigor extends to hiring non-citizens as guards.

But it does:

  • You must be a U.S. citizen or an immigrant with lawful status, who is authorized to work in the U.S.

https://www.tdcj.texas.gov/divisions/hr/coinfo/emp-co.html

Edited by TwiceHorn
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GoPokes83

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First, even as a guard, you aren't just walking your happy ass out of a prison.  There is a process, at any point of which her supervisor can turn her around.  Second, do you want prison guards just leaving their posts without relief?  That seems like a bad precedent to me.  Last, as has been pointed out, if she just walks out, she loses her job and healthcare.  If she had done as you suggest and successfully given birth, as a newly fired new mother, what do you think her chances of getting another job with healthcare coverage are?  If she had great job prospects, she wouldn't be working as an underpaid prison guard in a chronically understaffed prison system.
Not all jobs are jobs that you can just walk out of, and not everyone has the prospects to just walk off of even the jobs where that's possible.

There are zero State of Texas jobs where you go to your boss and say “I’m having a medical emergency and I need to go to the hospital” and they won’t let you go, and unless you’re already on some type of disciplinary probation there’s also no way you’d be fired and it’s doubtful you would even be then. It’s not much of a Union, but it’s still a Union job. Unfortunately with her symptoms the miscarriage was probably going to happen either way, and I’m sure that will play into the state’s defense and how much she ultimately gets as a settlement.
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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

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It's pretty sick how the state is treating her. As a tax payer, I would much rather the state admit they were wrong and pay her, not that any sort of financial compensation can make her whole again.

This could be an interesting case to keep an eye on, however. I'm not up to date on what the status of cases like this are nationwide, but we as a society clearly need to flesh out exactly how fetal rights work post Dobbs.

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