Why is the Right so Afraid of the Left?

[seven 1367]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

No. We've made the statement as a society that gender doesn't matter.

 

let's go...

Spanky already stated earlier that trans-women should not have access to the same services as "real" women. I'm asking why. 

[David Dennison 18845]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

Bingo.

And that’s illegal immigration: Shouldn’t I get a say so on whether or not I have to pay for a life that I did not want? Abortion is protected by law...and are our immigration policies. You may not agree with them, even from a humanitarian or moral standpoint, but it’s still the fucking law.

You do get a say. That's what voting is. 

[seven 1367]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

I would not deny the rights/ privileges to the trans individual

 

was simply answering your question.

Good! 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You do get a say. That's what voting is. 

we are not enforcing the "say" on the books, so your statement is not entirely true.

[Spankytoes 1739]

2 minutes ago, seven said:

Ok, let's just pretend all of these things are special privileges for women, why would you deny a trans-women care at pp, or family leave, or safe haven at a shelter?

I wouldn’t. They should be treated as equally as a biological man or woman. They are just not a “woman”. Just like acting, dressing and talking in a manner identified with black culture doesn’t make you black. Or dressing up in a cape doesn’t make you Superman. Or in your case, the ability to talk politics on a thread and make up arguments doesn’t make you smart.

[BrazilHorn 6586]

if left ran on:

Marijuana legalization

Getting rid of private prisons and dramatically change asset forfeiture laws

Smart immigration - adding hundreds of thousands of people due to be on federal/state assistance isn't sustainable, but offering work programs (bracero-esque) along with a fixed time to be on assistance could be

equal rights for Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Queer etc

Fixed period food stamps/assistance programs vs perpetual

pro-choice but educate as to alternatives etc

I'd be all in.

Unfortunately what I typically see from the left are posts similar to those from the OP that are hard not to read as being insulting to anyone who doesn't swallow the current agenda.

The narrative of "why are you too stupid to agree with me" that both sides push are part of the problem.

I am a man without a party.

I lean left on many social issues (see those above) yet desire a balanced budget, don't think we need to spend 3x the next country on the military etc. I think both parties are frankly bloated and corrupt.

 

 

 

 

[David Dennison 18845]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

we are not enforcing the "say" on the books, so your statement is not entirely true.

Yes, we are. 

[Guest]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Yes, we are. 

No we are not.  It is the root of the whole debate/ discussion on immigration.

[seven 1367]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I wouldn’t. They should be treated as equally as a biological man or woman. They are just not a “woman”. Just like acting, dressing and talking in a manner identified with black culture doesn’t make you black. Or dressing up in a cape doesn’t make you Superman. Or in your case, the ability to talk politics on a thread and make up arguments doesn’t make you smart.

So now that you've been outted as a bigot and fool you've decided to walk back your earlier statement. I guess that's progress. 

[Guest]

what Brazil said.

[Spankytoes 1739]

2 minutes ago, seven said:

Spanky already stated earlier that trans-women should not have access to the same services as "real" women. I'm asking why. 

Could you quote this? I said that they shouldn’t have the same privledges as women, which I will clarify to mean “biological”. Then I was questioned on what privledges women have.

Now show me where I said they shouldn’t have access to anything you’ve posted about. (Which is a snippet of a singular post about a broader issue that you’ve obsessed over) I know you want me to make an argument I’m not making, so sorry.

[David Dennison 18845]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

No we are not.  It is the root of the whole debate/ discussion on immigration.

What laws are not being enforced?

[David Dennison 18845]

6 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

if left ran on:

Marijuana legalization

Getting rid of private prisons and dramatically change asset forfeiture laws

Smart immigration - adding hundreds of thousands of people due to be on federal/state assistance isn't sustainable, but offering work programs (bracero-esque) along with a fixed time to be on assistance could be

equal rights for Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Queer etc

Fixed period food stamps/assistance programs vs perpetual

pro-choice but educate as to alternatives etc

I'd be all in.

Unfortunately what I typically see from the left are posts similar to those from the OP that are hard not to read as being insulting to anyone who doesn't swallow the current agenda.

The narrative of "why are you too stupid to agree with me" that both sides push are part of the problem.

I am a man without a party.

I lean left on many social issues (see those above) yet desire a balanced budget, don't think we need to spend 3x the next country on the military etc. I think both parties are frankly bloated and corrupt.

Based on this, you should never vote for a Republican ever again.

[Guest]

I would say fiscally, I do have some trepidation over the premise of taxes increasing while a base of DEm voters on gov't assistance continues to grow, thus perpetuating the dependent class with continual growth due to illegal immigration/ wide sweeping amnesty or lax enforcement of current laws.

 

I support LEGAL immigration.  Every single person we as a country determine is sustainable.

I disagree with open borders or lax enforcement of immigration policies.

Edited July 2, 2018 by slorch

[Spankytoes 1739]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You do get a say. That's what voting is. 

And laws are for, right? The person I vote into office swears to uphold the laws.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What laws are not being enforced?

we do not deport all illegals.   Not even close.

[Spankytoes 1739]

4 minutes ago, seven said:

So now that you've been outted as a bigot and fool you've decided to walk back your earlier statement. I guess that's progress. 

The invitation to quote me saying otherwise is still there sweet cheeks. Try your bait on someone less intelligent. 

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

we do not deport all illegals.   Not even close.

Does the law say we have to?

[Spankytoes 1739]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Does the law say we have to?

Yes, it’s does.

[seven 1367]

57 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Lulz. Sure thing.

I’m perfectly fine calling a transgendered woman “she”. But, I don’t view her as a woman. I don’t think she should get the same status or privledges as a woman. I also don’t think government funds should be allocated for her while still recognizing her status as a human and citizen.

Partial credit or full on bigot?

When asked to clarify what status and privileges you're talking about you listed pp, women's shelters, maternity leave, etc. Why would you list those if you thought they were statuses and privileges trans-women should have access to? You were specifically talking about what trans-women shouldn't have access to.

[Goredho 17394]

This should probably be in another thread, but this came to me while sitting on the shitter and pondering the question of this thread.

I'd be curious who views politics as a game that can be ideologically won.  That something like "liberalism" or "conservatism" can and should be vanquished to eliminate its influence on the American continuum.

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

Yes, it’s does.

Are you sure?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Unless his salary would take funds away from hiring the CFO, which is my point. The kitty isn’t unlimited.

Now you're just being ridiculous.  The janitor's status is irrelevant.  If I need someone to clean the shitters, I need a janitor.  If I need someone to manage finances, I need a CFO.  And as a business owner, everyone is taking money from my kitty.  If anything, the CFO takes more from me.  And an illegal janitor is also likely cheaper than a legal one.  But all of them work to free up my time so I can be more productive elsewhere.  None of them are taking funds away from one another.  I see you've spent a lot of time on a sales team.  Sales reps compete with each other.  The rest of the company doesn't work that way.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Does the law say we have to?

Don't do this.

 

Just fucking don't.

 

It's a good discussion.  Don't play stupid.

[Guest]

the law says these folks should be deported:

 

Point #8 hits most of them, regardless of other activities.

 

Classes of Deportable Aliens

Any alien that is in the United States may be subject to deportation or removal if he or she:

• Is an inadmissible alien according to immigration laws in effect at the time of entry to the U.S. or adjustment of nonimmigrant status;
• Is present in the U.S. in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act or any other U.S. law;
• Violated nonimmigrant status or a condition of entry into the U.S.;
• Terminated a conditional permanent residence;
• Encouraged or aided any other alien to enter the U.S. illegally;
• Engaged in marriage fraud to gain admission to the U.S.;
• Was convicted of certain criminal offenses;
• Failed to register or falsified documents relating to entry in to the U.S.;
• Engaged in any activity that endangers public safety or creates a risk of national security; or
• Engaged in unlawful voting.

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

Don't do this.

 

Just fucking don't.

 

It's a good discussion.  Don't play stupid.

Anyone here illegally has a Constitutional right to due process. You are accusing immigration courts of knowingly violating immigration laws. Are you sure that's what's happening?

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

the law says these folks should be deported:

 

Point #8 hits most of them, regardless of other activities.

 

Classes of Deportable Aliens

Any alien that is in the United States may be subject to deportation or removal if he or she:

• Is an inadmissible alien according to immigration laws in effect at the time of entry to the U.S. or adjustment of nonimmigrant status;
• Is present in the U.S. in violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act or any other U.S. law;
• Violated nonimmigrant status or a condition of entry into the U.S.;
• Terminated a conditional permanent residence;
• Encouraged or aided any other alien to enter the U.S. illegally;
• Engaged in marriage fraud to gain admission to the U.S.;
• Was convicted of certain criminal offenses;
• Failed to register or falsified documents relating to entry in to the U.S.;
• Engaged in any activity that endangers public safety or creates a risk of national security; or
• Engaged in unlawful voting.

"May be" is the magic term of art. "Shall be" is what you want.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Anyone here illegally has a Constitutional right to due process. You are accusing immigration courts of knowingly violating immigration laws. Are you sure that's what's happening?

Again.  Don't be a willful idiot.

 

Playing dumb on this horseshit is what drives a lot of the hate.

 

It's deliberate...and then folks act like they didn't know.

 

You fucking know.

Edited July 2, 2018 by slorch

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

Again.  Don't be a willful idiot.

Don't be disingenuous about what's happening. 

[Spankytoes 1739]

19 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

You cant hit a man either. But now you aren't talking about govt at all, but societal norms. Like how you were offered family leave but didn't take it because "men dont do that."

Family leave was not available in Texas in 1998/2000 when I could have used it nor is it available now. It is available in NY, but I don’t plan on having anymore kids. Damn straight I would have taken it, had it been offered. I’m not sure why you’re projecting stereotypes on me. I’m Left-Center with a wife that repaves my driveway while I bake the soufflés. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, seven said:

When asked to clarify what status and privileges you're talking about you listed pp, women's shelters, maternity leave, etc. Why would you list those if you thought they were statuses and privileges trans-women should have access to? You were specifically talking about what trans-women shouldn't have access to.

Not to mention, he started with:

"I’m perfectly fine calling a transgendered woman “she”. But, I don’t view her as a woman. I don’t think she should get the same status or privledges as a woman. I also don’t think government funds should be allocated for her while still recognizing her status as a human and citizen."

But now it's not gov't, and he just wants society to treat them like shit rather than the wonderful way he believes society treats women.  He'll call her "she", but punch "her" in the face because thats okay to do to men, and "she" shouldn't get family leave if "she" has a kid because, as a man, he didn't take his family leave.

I'm not sure what "she" is taking from Planned Parenthood either.  Men can get STD testing and treatment also.  Planned Parenthood doesn't provide hormone replacement therapy.  So that leaves the big "A" that women can get there and spanky can't, abortion.  And really, if a transgendered woman is getting an abortion at Planned Parenthood, even spanky would understand she deserves to be considered a woman.

[David Dennison 18845]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

Family leave was not available in Texas in 1998/2000 when I could have used it nor is it available now. It is available in NY, but I don’t plan on having anymore kids. Damn straight I would have taken it, had it been offered. I’m not sure why you’re projecting stereotypes on me. I’m Left-Center with a wife that repaves my driveway while I bake the soufflés. 

Did you vote for Hillary or Donald?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Don't be disingenuous about what's happening. 

I am not.

 

We are absolutely looking the other way on illegal immigration.

 

Then the bleedin hearts wanna know why anyone is concerned.

 

Enforce the fucking law and stop disenfranchising my vote, as you said was so powerful.

[Whitman 694]

59 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Can you find me a lawsuit that claims discrimination due to being a man?

Hooters Settles Suit By Men Denied Jobs

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESSOCT. 1, 1997

Hooters has agreed to pay $3.75 million to settle a lawsuit filed by men who were denied jobs by the restaurant chain, which is known for its voluptuous and scantily clad female bartenders and servers.

The settlement allows Hooters to continue luring customers with a female staff of Hooters Girls. But the chain also agreed to create a few other support jobs, like bartenders and hosts, that must be filled without regard to sex.

Three men from the Chicago area sued Hooters after being denied employment at an Orland Park, Ill., restaurant. Each of them will get $19,100. Four men who filed a similar lawsuit in Maryland will receive $10,350 each.

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

I am not.

 

We are absolutely looking the other way on illegal immigration.

 

Then the bleedin hearts wanna know why anyone is concerned.

 

Enforce the fucking law and stop disenfranchising my vote, as you said was so powerful.

What do you think happens when an illegal immigrant is apprehended? 

[Spankytoes 1739]

12 minutes ago, seven said:

When asked to clarify what status and privileges you're talking about you listed pp, women's shelters, maternity leave, etc. Why would you list those if you thought they were statuses and privileges trans-women should have access to? You were specifically talking about what trans-women shouldn't have access to.

I see. You have a comprehension issue combing two thoughts into one post. Thanks for clarifying. 

Trans-women can use PP for all the abortion issue she they want. You know, because it’s essential. I gave you too much credit here.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Family leave was not available in Texas in 1998/2000 when I could have used it nor is it available now. It is available in NY, but I don’t plan on having anymore kids. Damn straight I would have taken it, had it been offered. I’m not sure why you’re projecting stereotypes on me. I’m Left-Center with a wife that repaves my driveway while I bake the soufflés. 

Because when the dirty liberal cabal gets in charge of gov't, they mandate benefits that aren't specific to gender.  Like here in NY.  Whatever your Texas employer decided to do was up to them, and not the liberal cabal.  Sounds like your real beef is with your former employer.  The liberal state of NY would have looked out for you and your wife as equals.  And looks out for transgendered people as equals as well.

Edited July 2, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

I see. You have a comprehension issue combing two thoughts into one post. Thanks for clarifying. 

Trans-women can use PP for all the abortion issue she they want. You know, because it’s essential. I gave you too much credit here.

Trans-women most certainly cannot use Planned Parenthood for abortion. It's literally impossible.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What do you think happens when an illegal immigrant is apprehended? 

Most of them are not...yet we know where they are.

 

Why do you choose to play like there is no issue?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Yes, it’s does.

No it doesn't.  Look up the U Visa, for example.

[David Dennison 18845]

Just now, slorch said:

Most of them are not...yet we know where they are.

Why do you choose to play like there is no issue?

Because I don't believe there is one.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

21 minutes ago, slorch said:

I would say fiscally, I do have some trepidation over the premise of taxes increasing while a base of DEm voters on gov't assistance continues to grow, thus perpetuating the dependent class with continual growth due to illegal immigration/ wide sweeping amnesty or lax enforcement of current laws.

 

I support LEGAL immigration.  Every single person we as a country determine is sustainable.

I disagree with open borders or lax enforcement of immigration policies.

Half of Appalachia and the cracker deep south is on disability, but they have convinced themselves that it ain't no welfare so they've earned it. And they don't vote Dem. 

[Spankytoes 1739]

14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Now you're just being ridiculous.  The janitor's status is irrelevant.  If I need someone to clean the shitters, I need a janitor.  If I need someone to manage finances, I need a CFO.  And as a business owner, everyone is taking money from my kitty.  If anything, the CFO takes more from me.  And an illegal janitor is also likely cheaper than a legal one.  But all of them work to free up my time so I can be more productive elsewhere.  None of them are taking funds away from one another.  I see you've spent a lot of time on a sales team.  Sales reps compete with each other.  The rest of the company doesn't work that way.

I think you have me confused with someone else. But, to answer your question:

Tommy has $10. Joe steals $3 from Tommy. Marcus wants $8. In order to pay Marcus, Tommy has to borrow from Sam. Not just the $1, but enough to ensure he doesn’t go broke before giving away all his money because Sally will want $ too.

The janitor matters. If Joe earned the money the right way, Tommy would be better prepared to pay Marcus and Sally. Since he stole, Sally is shit out of luck.

[Spankytoes 1739]

13 minutes ago, Whitman said:

Hooters Settles Suit By Men Denied Jobs

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESSOCT. 1, 1997

Hooters has agreed to pay $3.75 million to settle a lawsuit filed by men who were denied jobs by the restaurant chain, which is known for its voluptuous and scantily clad female bartenders and servers.

The settlement allows Hooters to continue luring customers with a female staff of Hooters Girls. But the chain also agreed to create a few other support jobs, like bartenders and hosts, that must be filled without regard to sex.

Three men from the Chicago area sued Hooters after being denied employment at an Orland Park, Ill., restaurant. Each of them will get $19,100. Four men who filed a similar lawsuit in Maryland will receive $10,350 each.

Completely invalidates my statement. Congrats.

[BrazilHorn 6586]

29 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Based on this, you should never vote for a Republican ever again.

Agree. And I won’t. . However plenty of D candidates aren’t interested at all in ever having a balanced budget. I find both parties bloated and gross. It’s really disappointing to see the lobbyist led politicians we have to settle for. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

They fear permanent minority rule.  

Meanwhile, The Beetus creeps up on them faster than their Rascal scooters can carry them.

Whites have lower obesity rates than Browns and blacks.  So you almost had a really, really good insult. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

mean, ask a stupid, question that stereotypes people, and begs a question, get a stupid answer that does the same.

I know it’s stupid. I wish we were all free thinking individuals that transcend partisan politics with unique ideas and solutions to today’s problems.

But that’s not reality.

We’ve been intentionally polarized into teams designed to fight each other.  My questions are intended to get to what exactly are we fighting about and why?

  Maybe some will question their blind devotion to team and possibly consider pragmatic alternatives that benefit society and improve quality of life.

left vs right was just framing it in current political environment.

Apologies to Gary Johnson voters.

[Spankytoes 1739]

17 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Not to mention, he started with:

"I’m perfectly fine calling a transgendered woman “she”. But, I don’t view her as a woman. I don’t think she should get the same status or privledges as a woman. I also don’t think government funds should be allocated for her while still recognizing her status as a human and citizen."

But now it's not gov't, and he just wants society to treat them like shit rather than the wonderful way he believes society treats women.  He'll call her "she", but punch "her" in the face because thats okay to do to men, and "she" shouldn't get family leave if "she" has a kid because, as a man, he didn't take his family leave.

I'm not sure what "she" is taking from Planned Parenthood either.  Men can get STD testing and treatment also.  Planned Parenthood doesn't provide hormone replacement therapy.  So that leaves the big "A" that women can get there and spanky can't, abortion.  And really, if a transgendered woman is getting an abortion at Planned Parenthood, even spanky would understand she deserves to be considered a woman.

Said they should be treated equally. Said I’d call them “she”. Responded to the ridiculous assertion that they should be denied services at PP. (Even used your exact example) Don’t think that they are a woman.

Guess that last statement invalidates the rest of them. It does validate my original assertion though.

[RandomIdoit 655]

12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Because I don't believe there is one.

Just to clarify, you don't think there is no issues with people being in the US illegally?

[Spankytoes 1739]

19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Did you vote for Hillary or Donald?

I believe you know the answer: Donald

Ok, spring it on me