The Blind Side 2: The search for more money

[TwiceHorn 31448]

Ok, so, looking a little at Tennesee law, the Tuohys and Oher had three potential options to create some kind of parent-child relationship.

• Guardianship, but this is only for minors, and he was 18 before he even came to live with them, according to his own complaint, so that's out
• Adult Adoption, this creates a parent-child relationship in that the child can inherit from the parents as a natural child, but it doesn't create any of the parental rights/reponsibilities, like caring for him, etc., which only exist between minor children and their parents, natural or adoptive
• This Conservatorship thing, although this is a bit weird, they set it up mostly so he could be in school, have the school consult them about medical decisions (he was a football player pretty likely to get injured) and make the kind of decisions that parents make on behalf of their dependent children

Although there's some weirdness here, it is not insane to call this a form of "adoption" whereby the Tuohys became the "parents' of a dependent, but nevertheless adult "child."  This really could be on the up and up.  Technically, though, it's not an adoption, and anything called an adoption, legally was either impossble because he was an adult, or didn't achieve anything they needed while he was a dependent in their household.

The Tuohys seem to have been well compensated for their film rights, there's nothing necessarily wrong about that.

Oher got jack shit for the film rights.  That may be the NCAA's fault and not the Tuohy's.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Parliament 14255]

Thank God we have so many lawyers on this board.  Otherwise we'd hafta discuss football.

[immamac 42839]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ok, so, looking a little at Tennesee law, the Tuohys and Oher had three potential options to create some kind of parent-child relationship.

• Guardianship, but this is only for minors, and he was 18 before he even came to live with them, according to his own complaint, so that's out
• Adult Adoption, this creates a parent-child relationship in that the child can inherit from the parents as a natural child, but it doesn't create any of the parental rights/reponsibilities, like caring for him, etc., which only exist between minor children and their parents, natural or adoptive
• This Conservatorship thing, although this is a bit weird, they set it up mostly so he could be in school, have the school consult them about medical decisions (he was a football player pretty likely to get injured) and make the kind of decisions that parents make on behalf of their dependent children

Although there's some weirdness here, it is not insane to call this a form of "adoption" whereby the Tuohys became the "parents' of a dependent, but nevertheless adult "child."  This really could be on the up and up.  Technically, though, it's not an adoption, and anything called an adoption, legally was either impossble because he was an adult, or didn't achieve anything they needed while he was a dependent in their household.

The Tuohys seem to have been well compensated for their film rights, there's nothing necessarily wrong about that.

Oher got jack shit for the film rights.  That may be the NCAA's fault and not the Tuohy's.

 

They publicly represented him as adopted. This is going to get ugly in a hurry. 

[hpslugga 4058]

29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Oher got jack shit for the film rights.  That may be the NCAA's fault and not the Tuohy's.

Why would it be the NCAA's fault?

[bullet 1596]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's a fair point.  The agent should have been questioning the conservatorship, the need for it, and any income/revenue from the film.   

Most financial affairs conservatorships are premised on the idea that the ward can't handle his business and the conservator needs to handle it for him.  So that would tend to mean not only the film but any NFL related matters a sports agent would handle.

Also, in Texas and most places, an attorney is appointed for the potential ward to evaluate the fundamental fairness and need for a conservatorship, called a guardian ad litem.  In some of these elder abuse scandals, I discovered Nevada, among other places, did not have such a provision.  Tennessee may be or have been another.

May have been why it happened after he was 18.  He wasn't mentally challenged and he wasn't a minor.  So no guardian ad litem.

[BigHorn'13 3363]

9 hours ago, Deej said:

She could stand to clean up those eyebrows a bit. 

Sheeeeit! I'd fuck those, too. 

[FartingMonk 3606]

Those numbers you guys are citing are just box office numbers.  DVDs and TV money should be a few bucks also

[ousux 5597]

Brett Favre is arranging for the state to divert Medicaid funds for a new initiative to create conservatorships where prominent business leaders and former QBs can get involved with mentoring underprivileged young athletes.

Sounds promising, I can't see any way that can go wrong or be anything other than pure benevolence.

[redswingline 1057]

9 hours ago, Davis Lane said:

That face is god damn perfection, gents.

She is very pretty to look at, but too thin.

Nailing her would be like humping a skeleton.

[Zepol87 9185]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

I took a shot at nobody but the reporting.  It doesn't add up. 

Seriously go fuck yourself.
The rich white family won’t get in serious trouble. Normal shit 

[confusingjazz 7]

Are you trying to tell me that this family didn't take in the best lineman in the state of Tennessee out of the goodness of his own hear? Are you also going to tell me that Leigh Anne Tuohy didn't teach a 5 star recruit a thing or two about playing football? Did she or did she not threaten a bunch of "drug dealers" with her NRA memberspt?

I am starting to think the whole story might be hooey!

[TwiceHorn 31448]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Why would it be the NCAA's fault?

It's an NIL deal, which was not permissible in 2007.  Not much different from being forbidden to profit from being on the cover of NCAA Football 2007.

[Satchel 6938]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

He doesn't control his own money. He is under the conservatorship of the tuohey family as an adult man of sound mind. 

Rich white southern family found a way to own a black guy, go figure

Harlan Crow says hi.

[TwiceHorn 31448]

42 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

“We’re going to profit off this movie, but we’re not going to negotiate any payment or royalties for you because NCAA rules” still seems pretty weak.  If that was the issue, it doesn’t seem like there was any effort to make him whole after the fact once his NCAA eligibility expired.  
 

Well, I may be off on NCAA player compensation/eligibility rules circa 2007, but I think such a deal would have jeopardized his eligibility.  Because it's pretty much exactly what O'Bannon was bitching about the NCAA not letting him profit from, to wit, an NIL deal.

He played two more seasons including withdrawing from the draft after his junior year, so it seems like eligibility was important to him.

The conservatorship did make them fiduciaries to him, so things could get wild, but they were ostensibly paid for their own "appearance" in the film, which didn't create any right to be "made whole."

Their involvement, if any, in the 2007 deal is a critical missing fact here.  He claims not to remember the 2007 deal, which is conceivable, but also incredibly convenient.  If he's going to subsequently allege that "oh, now I remember, but the Tuohys fed me a bunch of bullshit about it," that's probably going to create a bit of a credibility problem.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5396]

@TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31448]

39 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Did it say whether the 2.5% was gross or net?  I think the prevailing method for the last few decades is for the royalty to be calculated on the gross because Hollywood screwed over so many people with creative accounting to show “profit” was zero even though plenty of people made money before you got down to that final profit number.  

If it’s calculated off the $300,000,000 gross, plus the DVD, streaming rights, etc., then we’re talking about some real money. 

Another kind of suspect thing, the petition alleges the 2006 Tuohy agreements on information and belief, so you can guess they've not actually seen them.  It does say 2.5% of "Defined Net Proceeds," which is awfully specific for information and belief.

This whole thing is weird as fuck in a lot  of ways.

[Texas Wahoo 3391]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, I may be off on NCAA player compensation/eligibility rules circa 2007, but I think such a deal would have jeopardized his eligibility.  Because it's pretty much exactly what O'Bannon was bitching about the NCAA not letting him profit from, to wit, an NIL deal.

He played two more seasons including withdrawing from the draft after his junior year, so it seems like eligibility was important to him.

The conservatorship did make them fiduciaries to him, so things could get wild, but they were ostensibly paid for their own "appearance" in the film, which didn't create any right to be "made whole."

Their involvement, if any, in the 2007 deal is a critical missing fact here.  He claims not to remember the 2007 deal, which is conceivable, but also incredibly convenient.  If he's going to subsequently allege that "oh, now I remember, but the Tuohys fed me a bunch of bullshit about it," that's probably going to create a bit of a credibility problem.

Regardless of whether he has a legal case, it appears that he was definitely screwed over by these people. Maybe he couldn’t have taken money in 2007 under NCAA rules, but the movie didn’t come out until 2009 after he was done playing football and it’s not like they couldn’t have waited until he was done playing in college. 
 

Instead, they apparently negotiated big deals for the entire family and nothing for the main character. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Seriously go fuck yourself.
The rich white family won’t get in serious trouble. Normal shit 

and fuck you too.

 

The whole thing doesn't add up.  That's all I fucking said, and y'all leap like motherfuckers.

Ever-vigilant warrior of justice, even when there is no fight being picked.  You cannot even deduce that we disagree from my initial post.  There are indeed very critical factors/ details missing from the way the article is written.

Edited August 15, 2023 by slorch

[Guest]

When did America get so mean?

 

When every time something is even remotely approaching the possibility of being different from your politics, it becomes a position of racism.  Doesn't matter that race/ socio-economic status had zero to do with it, that's where some gravitate.  It's sickening.

You don't know, so you make racism your fucking answer( accusation.)  There's no fucking way as an adoptee myself, I'd have questions not answered by the article.  Nope.  Zero.  Then add in the aspects of what Twice Horn listed regarding NCAA eligibility.  Nope.  Some folks decide there's only one answer.  The conclusion they already reached.

Mike Leach locked Adam James in that closet your know.  The media said it.  Had a person ask me that this past week.  They always get it right.

Edited August 15, 2023 by slorch

[hpslugga 4058]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's an NIL deal, which was not permissible in 2007.  Not much different from being forbidden to profit from being on the cover of NCAA Football 2007.

How could it be an NIL deal when the movie wasn’t even filmed, much less released, until after his eligibility was up? 

[Frank Drebin 5662]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

How could it be an NIL deal when the movie wasn’t even filmed, much less released, until after his eligibility was up? 

Because the deal was signed when he was still an athlete.  Movies take at least a couple years to go from development to release.  

[immamac 42839]

3 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Because the deal was signed when he was still an athlete.  Movies take at least a couple years to go from development to release.  

So was the NCAA gonna retroactively take his eligibility away because they are deep in the know of contracts as soon as they are signed? Gtfoh with that shit. Lol. 

[TwiceHorn 31448]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

How could it be an NIL deal when the movie wasn’t even filmed, much less released, until after his eligibility was up? 

It's an agreement for payment.  I suppose they could defer all compensation until his NCAA eligibility is over, but that contract "on the come" is still valuable.  In fact, I think one of the things Ed O'Bannon alleged was that he couldn't retain eligibility while making a deal with EA to compensate him for NCAA Basketball after his eligibility expired.

And, of course, it's Fox that had the incentive to get things as cheap as possible, not the Tuohys.  So Fox may have tried to leverage the NCAA regs to their benefit.

My impression of the Tuohys isn't that great as I always thought their main motivation was to steer him to Ole Miss.  Another thing, though, is Michael Lewis apparently did a deep dive on this thing and, if he thought it exploitative, you'd sure think he'd write about it, he doesn't shy away from that kind of thing.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Frank Drebin 5662]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

So was the NCAA gonna retroactively take his eligibility away because they are deep in the know of contracts as soon as they are signed? Gtfoh with that shit. Lol. 

There were lawyers involved.  And a conservatorship.  I’m guessing they didn’t want to risk his eligibility.  Nor were they going to commit fraud or not disclose the contract.   With the conservatorship it could have even been filed in the public records.  The NCAA was ridiculously strict back then on stuff like this. Ask Jeremy Bloom. 

[TwiceHorn 31448]

11 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

There were lawyers involved.  And a conservatorship.  I’m guessing they didn’t want to risk his eligibility.  Nor were they going to commit fraud or not disclose the contract.   With the conservatorship it could have even been filed in the public records.  The NCAA was ridiculously strict back then on stuff like this. Ask Jeremy Bloom. 

I see no evidence anywhere that the Tuohys acted as conservators once he entered college.  MIght exist, but the evidence is currently lacking.

That conservatorship is technically still ongoing.  They could have been up in his business in every damn thing he's done to date.

But, if they were involved, they better have some rock solid witnesses or videotape or something of what they did.

The petition alleges that the Tuohy's compensation in the 2006 agreements was contingent on securing rights from Oher.  So, that gave them an incentive to be involved, but it also seems like maybe they weren't because it took another six months, according to the petition, to fleece Oher.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[MonkeyDoughnut 10232]

Mr Tuohy explains what happened... seems reasonable from TMZ:

Sean Tuohy is firing back at Michael Oher ... calling BS on all of the former NFL star's "insulting" allegations -- while insisting he and his family made little money off of the success of "The Blind Side."

The 63-year-old -- who was played by Tim McGraw in the 2009 hit movie -- said he was "devastated" to learn that Oher had accused him and his wife, Leigh Anne, of exploiting him for fame and money in a court filing in Tennessee on Monday morning.

Tuohy told the Daily Memphian he never tricked Oher into getting into a conservatorship ... and he certainly didn't make millions off of it either.

Instead, Tuohy said the whole ordeal went down because the NCAA told him if Oher wanted to attend Ole Miss -- he'd have to be considered part of the family due to Touhy's status as a "booster" at the school.

"I sat Michael down and told him, 'If you're planning to go to Ole Miss -- or even considering Ole Miss -- we think you have to be part of the family,'" Tuohy said. "'This would do that, legally.'"

He continued, "We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."

Tuohy then said he'd "of course" end the conservatorship if that's what Oher wanted.

As for the allegations that Tuohy used the conservatorship to negotiate a big movie deal with Fox that netted massive profits for him and his family ... Tuohy said that just simply never happened.

"We didn’t make any money off the movie," Tuohy said. "Well, Michael Lewis ['The Blind Side' book author] gave us half of his share. Everybody in the family got an equal share, including Michael. It was about $14,000, each."

Tuohy says he was in no need of cash after he had sold his fast-food franchises for over $200 million.

"I will say it’s upsetting that people would think I would want to make money off any of my children," he said.

Tuohy also told the outlet his family and Oher had remained very close in the years after the release of "The Blind Side" ... though he began to notice a schism forming about a year and a half ago.

"No question, the allegations are insulting," he said, "but, look, it's a crazy world. You've got to live in it. It's obviously upset everybody."

[Texzilla58 4733]

I think if we were able to get total transparency we’d see lots of similar type relationships out there in high schools to get players into districts or private schools. Many won’t have financial issues. It also points to the bullshit of ncaa rules for years that put by players into bad situations of varying issues because they couldn’t have an agent.

A lot of this conservatorship appears to be driven by trying to maneuver thru intrusive NCAA rules to protect Oher’s eligibility. At the time they had no clue if he’d even pan out as an SEC lineman.

The Touhys are getting pounded by the media because they make the tempting target. It makes a great story to bash a feel good story that had a great message coming from a shithole like Memphis; of course they knew he’d be an nfl starter way back and it would be a bigtime movie. I think we’ll learn the facts aren’t as salacious as the legal-ignorant sports and movie press is making this out to be.

The worst part of the movie was it had no scissoring scenes with Kim Pickens and Sandra Bullock.

[Zeus 6018]

I knew Sandra Bullock was a greedy bitch

[RexWilson 1346]

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3274]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

When did America get so mean?

No CR but sometime between Nixon resigning and the 2nd plane hitting the WTC. Can't tell you exactly when but before that time America was mostly folksy, reasonably nice to one another, pretty racist but at least attempted to hide it except in the Deep South. After that time to the present day full ass tribal politics and "if you aren't with me, you are a Nazi/Commie/Fascist/etc and I hate you and everything you say"

5 hours ago, slorch said:

Mike Leach locked Adam James in that closet your know.  The media said it.  Had a person ask me that this past week.  They always get it right.

Really hope Oher doesn't go to his grave still being screwed by these scumbags the way Mike Leach went to his grave still fighting being screwed over by Tech/Scumbag administration at Tech circa 2009. RIP Mike. CJK5H.

[Zeus 6018]

12 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Mr Tuohy explains what happened... seems reasonable from TMZ:

Sean Tuohy is firing back at Michael Oher ... calling BS on all of the former NFL star's "insulting" allegations -- while insisting he and his family made little money off of the success of "The Blind Side."

The 63-year-old -- who was played by Tim McGraw in the 2009 hit movie -- said he was "devastated" to learn that Oher had accused him and his wife, Leigh Anne, of exploiting him for fame and money in a court filing in Tennessee on Monday morning.

Tuohy told the Daily Memphian he never tricked Oher into getting into a conservatorship ... and he certainly didn't make millions off of it either.

Instead, Tuohy said the whole ordeal went down because the NCAA told him if Oher wanted to attend Ole Miss -- he'd have to be considered part of the family due to Touhy's status as a "booster" at the school.

"I sat Michael down and told him, 'If you're planning to go to Ole Miss -- or even considering Ole Miss -- we think you have to be part of the family,'" Tuohy said. "'This would do that, legally.'"

He continued, "We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."

Tuohy then said he'd "of course" end the conservatorship if that's what Oher wanted.

As for the allegations that Tuohy used the conservatorship to negotiate a big movie deal with Fox that netted massive profits for him and his family ... Tuohy said that just simply never happened.

"We didn’t make any money off the movie," Tuohy said. "Well, Michael Lewis ['The Blind Side' book author] gave us half of his share. Everybody in the family got an equal share, including Michael. It was about $14,000, each."

Tuohy says he was in no need of cash after he had sold his fast-food franchises for over $200 million.

"I will say it’s upsetting that people would think I would want to make money off any of my children," he said.

Tuohy also told the outlet his family and Oher had remained very close in the years after the release of "The Blind Side" ... though he began to notice a schism forming about a year and a half ago.

"No question, the allegations are insulting," he said, "but, look, it's a crazy world. You've got to live in it. It's obviously upset everybody."

Damn, so it's actually some scumbag lawyers trying to scam their family using Oher? 

Yikes

[kevwun 15773]

8 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Did it say whether the 2.5% was gross or net?  I think the prevailing method for the last few decades is for the royalty to be calculated on the gross because Hollywood screwed over so many people with creative accounting to show “profit” was zero even though plenty of people made money before you got down to that final profit number.  

If it’s calculated off the $300,000,000 gross, plus the DVD, streaming rights, etc., then we’re talking about some real money. 

Yeah, the studios are really good at making sure their movies lose money on paper.  Net is worthless like you said.

Edited August 15, 2023 by kevwun

['stache 21802]

"I sat Michael down and told him, 'If you're planning to go to Ole Miss -- or even considering Ole Miss -- we think you have to be part of the family,'" Tuohy said. "'This would do that, legally.'"

He continued, "We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."
 

What does this mean? Ole Miss only takes players if they have families? They didn’t house him because he needed help but to get him into old miss? And as far as I know adult adoptions are legal in every state. What on earth does ole miss care about a conservatorship? If it was to give him a better home life, adult adoption works, or just let him live there and give him a stable home life. Why ole miss would care about adoptions or conservatorship makes no sense. Every year we see a sappy segment on Gameday about a player that overcame homelessness or some other tough circumstance. Funny how conservatorship comes into play when a Hollywood movie is at stake. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by 'stache

[South Austin 52463]

I thought The Blind Side was complete schmaltz, and while I like Sandra and for years she was on my laminated list, I thought her performance in the flick was decent, but not Oscar-worthy. 

csb:  I stood behind her in line at the Starbucks on 5th and Lamar in 2001, and thought she was even more beautiful in real life.

[Brothahorn 10087]

We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."

Surly lawyers, is this true?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

There were a lot of screwy parts of Oher going to Ole Miss. from the Tuoheys looking like they brought Oher into their house to steer him towards Ole Miss to Hugh Freeze (Ohers high school coach) being hired as an ole miss assistant coach and recruiter.  It wouldn’t shock me if someone at Ole Miss wanted paperwork that the Tuoheys had some legal relationship with Oher even if it wasn’t needed. This could have been needed IF they gave him money while he was in college.

I don’t see how Oher could have negotiated a payout from the book or movie given the NCAA rules. Could the family or movie company later on given him a share? I suppose but most people don’t decide to give someone money after the fact or at least not change contracts. Oher has a right to be upset that he was left out but sucks that it sounds like his first inclination was to sue them and write a book. 

[hpslugga 4058]

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Instead, Tuohy said the whole ordeal went down because the NCAA told him if Oher wanted to attend Ole Miss -- he'd have to be considered part of the family due to Touhy's status as a "booster" at the school.

I assume there are people who worked for the NCAA at the time who could verify this. I mean it's easy to say things like this, but without some sort of verification, well...Hitchens' razor.

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

He continued, "We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."

Fine. Why is he still under this conservatorship at the age of 37 when his NFL career is long over?

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Tuohy then said he'd "of course" end the conservatorship if that's what Oher wanted.

The thing is they were counting on the idea that he would never express that because he was, falsely, led to believe this conservatorship made him part of the family. Were they ever counting on the idea that one day he'd show up and say "I want out of the family?"

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

"We didn’t make any money off the movie," Tuohy said.

"According to the legal filing, the movie paid the Tuohys and their two birth children each $225,000, plus 2.5% of the film's "defined net proceeds." 

So someone is lying and it's on Michael to demonstrate it either way. I'm sure if Mr. Tuohy is telling the truth, he'd have no trouble whatsoever with the demand that they produce an accounting.

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

"Well, Michael Lewis ['The Blind Side' book author] gave us half of his share. Everybody in the family got an equal share, including Michael. It was about $14,000, each."

Ok, the book was published when Michael was a sophomore at Ole Miss, so how would this not be a violation of NCAA rules?

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Tuohy says he was in no need of cash after he had sold his fast-food franchises for over $200 million.

Again, why keep Michael under a conservatorship when he's nearing 40?

39 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

"I will say it’s upsetting that people would think I would want to make money off any of my children," he said.

Would Mr. Tuohy say it's less upsetting than, as upsetting as, or more upsetting than Michael finding out after nearly 2 decades that they've been lying both to him and the public about being part of the family when he certainly was not?

[TwiceHorn 31448]

35 minutes ago, 'stache said:

"I sat Michael down and told him, 'If you're planning to go to Ole Miss -- or even considering Ole Miss -- we think you have to be part of the family,'" Tuohy said. "'This would do that, legally.'"

He continued, "We contacted lawyers who had told us that we couldn't adopt over the age of 18; the only thing we could do was to have a conservatorship. We were so concerned it was on the up-and-up that we made sure the biological mother came to court."
 

What does this mean? Ole Miss only takes players if they have families? They didn’t house him because he needed help but to get him into old miss? And as far as I know adult adoptions are legal in every state. What on earth does ole miss care about a conservatorship? If it was to give him a better home life, adult adoption works, or just let him live there and give him a stable home life. Why ole miss would care about adoptions or conservatorship makes no sense. Every year we see a sappy segment on Gameday about a player that overcame homelessness or some other tough circumstance. Funny how conservatorship comes into play when a Hollywood movie is at stake. 

Well, I think it means absent a familial relationship, Oher would have been steered to Ole Miss as a result of having been cared for by boosters, the Tuohys.  And, clearly he was steered to Ole Miss anyway.

That's technical as fuck, but that's the NCAA for you.

And of course the notion of Freeze and Ole Miss being sticklers about the NCAA is kind of ludicrous.

As pointed out, an adult adoption doesn't create a real parent-child relationship whereby the adoptive parent assumes parental obligations and responsibilities and much of that conservatorship order was designed to do just that.  The contract bit may be suspicious or maybe not.

['stache 21802]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Well, I think it means absent a familial relationship, Oher would have been steered to Ole Miss as a result of having been cared for by boosters, the Tuohys.  And, clearly he was steered to Ole Miss anyway.

That's technical as fuck, but that's the NCAA for you.

And of course the notion of Freeze and Ole Miss being sticklers about the NCAA is kind of ludicrous.

As pointed out, an adult adoption doesn't create a real parent-child relationship whereby the adoptive parent assumes parental obligations and responsibilities and much of that conservatorship order was designed to do just that.  The contract bit may be suspicious or maybe not.

What "parental obligations" did they want over an 18 year old, and how does adoption not give them that? The conservatorship was technically booster activity, probably moreso than adoption, because conservatorships in this context are about money (conserving an estate). And you're missing the bigger picture, that they represented adoption to Oher and the public, the movie (as I understand it) is based on a familial relationship, i.e. adoption, when in reality it was purely a financial arrangement re conservatorship. They could have given him housing, food, and guidance without a conservatorship. That's not what they were after though. 

[Longboard Horn 40301]

19 hours ago, Davis Lane said:

[Homesickhorn 2202]

Stache, show us on the doll where Ole Miss touched you in the last five Cotton Bowls our teams have played in.

[TwiceHorn 31448]

16 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

I assume there are people who worked for the NCAA at the time who could verify this. I mean it's easy to say things like this, but without some sort of verification, well...Hitchens' razor.

Fine. Why is he still under this conservatorship at the age of 37 when his NFL career is long over?

Good question, and why not terminate the conservatorship automatically at some point.  There's reference in the petition to it terminating at age 25, but that's not in the conservatorship order.  On the other hand, there's zero evidence at this point of the Tuohys using that conservatorship against him.  They technically could have forced their consent to all of his NFL and every other contract he's entered into in the last 19 years, but no evidence that they did so.  Very curious.

The thing is they were counting on the idea that he would never express that because he was, falsely, led to believe this conservatorship made him part of the family. Were they ever counting on the idea that one day he'd show up and say "I want out of the family?"

"According to the legal filing, the movie paid the Tuohys and their two birth children each $225,000, plus 2.5% of the film's "defined net proceeds." 

As pointed out, the allegations about the Tuohys' 2006 deal are made "upon information and belief."  That's lawyer code for we think, but aren't sure, which indicates that they haven't seen the actual contract.  But the allegations are so specific that that doesn't make sense.  Again very curious.

So someone is lying and it's on Michael to demonstrate it either way. I'm sure if Mr. Tuohy is telling the truth, he'd have no trouble whatsoever with the demand that they produce an accounting.

Yeah, this is true.  They certainly weren't behaving much like there was an actual financial conservatorship going on here, language in the order notwithstanding.  The most salient thing is the Tuohys created a fiduciary relationship with the conservatorship and thus could be on the hook for all manner of things.  There's just not any real specific allegation of wrongdoing at this point.

Ok, the book was published when Michael was a sophomore at Ole Miss, so how would this not be a violation of NCAA rules?

It seems like it might be.  However, Michael didn't have a contract with Lewis or his publisher for compensation, it seems to have been a gratuitous gift to the Tuohys and then in turn to Michael.  A $14,000 handshake?  I dunno.

Again, why keep Michael under a conservatorship when he's nearing 40?

This is one of the weirder things.  Conservatorship should have terminated automatically when he was no longer "a dependent child" of the Tuohys, at whatever point that was.  Having it continue until further court order is bizarre.  On the other hand, there really isn't any evidence thus far that the Tuohys exercised their rights as conservators to consent to his contracts over the last 19 years.

Would Mr. Tuohy say it's less upsetting than, as upsetting as, or more upsetting than Michael finding out after nearly 2 decades that they've been lying both to him and the public about being part of the family when he certainly was not?

The funny thing here is the only available literal "adoption" would not have created any obligation on the Tuohys to feed him, clothe him, house him, or pay any expenses.  It basically just creates a right to inherit and nothing else.  ironically, under this conservatorship, Oher could have demanded that they feed him, clothe him, and pay his expenses for the last 19 years, just as they could have demanded consent to his contracts.  None of that seems to have happened.

 

[Alien Octopus 516]

56 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I thought The Blind Side was complete schmaltz, and while I like Sandra and for years she was on my laminated list, I thought her performance in the flick was decent, but not Oscar-worthy. 

csb:  I stood behind her in line at the Starbucks on 5th and Lamar in 2001, and thought she was even more beautiful in real life.

She was so inspired by the Phooeys that she went out and bought adopted a kid.

[TwiceHorn 31448]

20 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What "parental obligations" did they want over an 18 year old, and how does adoption not give them that? The conservatorship was technically booster activity, probably moreso than adoption, because conservatorships in this context are about money (conserving an estate). And you're missing the bigger picture, that they represented adoption to Oher and the public, the movie (as I understand it) is based on a familial relationship, i.e. adoption, when in reality it was purely a financial arrangement re conservatorship. They could have given him housing, food, and guidance without a conservatorship. That's not what they were after though. 

Read the conservatorship order.  I posted it above.

I know what you're saying, but I've already looked into this.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Longboard Horn 40301]

18 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

I knew this story was bullshit when in the movie Oher didn’t fuck her with Mr. Tuohy in the corner filming. 

This is not "Clowns and Hypocrisy: The Jimbo Fisher Story"

[Best served cold 150]

14 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

In Tennessee, an ad litem is appointed and I think it’s a great thing. 

Ad litems have fucked over plenty of good parents over the years and are just as shitty as any other family lawyer. They should be kept out of all legal proceedings as they do jack shit other than run up the costs of a custody battle.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

On the idea of the conservatorship and maybe why he still had it at 37, I'm reminded that Britney Spears had a conservatorship for years. In the last few years, she went to court and asked the judge to remove it, and the judge told her that she could have removed the conservatorship at any point by just asking. She expressed surprise at that at least towards the media.

[TwiceHorn 31448]

17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

On the idea of the conservatorship and maybe why he still had it at 37, I'm reminded that Britney Spears had a conservatorship for years. In the last few years, she went to court and asked the judge to remove it, and the judge told her that she could have removed the conservatorship at any point by just asking. She expressed surprise at that at least towards the media.

Well, I think that the answer here is that both parties just ignored/forgot about it after a while.  It appears Oher never really appreciated what it meant.  And, if the Tuohys had sinister motives at first, they certainly didn't maintain them for very long and left him alone.

This conservatorship is in pretty stark contrast to Spears' where her father very actively managed every aspect of her personal and financial life until it was terminated.

[ztejas 43418]

I'm guessing there was no reason to terminate the conservatorship because they weren't using it to wield financial power over him and potentially never used it to do that. If they were messing with his NFL money then there's no way he would have let it continue 7 years past his retirement.

Maybe they hosed him out of some of the movie proceeds but I'm not sure what the point of that would be. They were already exceedingly wealthy - the image hit from that would have/potentially will I guess wind up costing them more.

[TwiceHorn 31448]

25 minutes ago, Best served cold said:

Ad litems have fucked over plenty of good parents over the years and are just as shitty as any other family lawyer. They should be kept out of all legal proceedings as they do jack shit other than run up the costs of a custody battle.

Ad litems certainly aren't a perfect solution, but I think what you're saying here is that most often, acting in the interest of the child, they fuck up what good parents want to do.  In this case, the Tuohys would have been the "good parents" (whether actually good or not) and it seems like the ad litem might have challenged this whole thing, for the better.

But, while an ad litem is required by TN law, here it was ordered waived, which is a bit odd.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn