Generators - regular and inverter

[AUinHsv 579]

Looking to get one for power outages. The inverter (not inverted :)) have dropped enough to look at. Not trying to do the whole house - just refrigerator and various electronics. Inverters are supposed to be better for electronics. Looking for opinions on around 4000 watt. Sams has a nice Champion dual fuel for under 500 bucks. If you have a traditional generator can you add an inline UPS to help prevent damage to phone/computers etc.

[utee94 15804]

Honda and Yamaha have traditionally been the cream of the crop.

HOWEVER

In recent years, the off-brands are really coming into their own.  I've had a Champion 3200 for about 6 years, absolutely no issues.  And believe it or not, the Harbor Freight 3500 I bought last-minute two years ago (because I forgot that I'd loaned out my Champion), has been great.  It successfully runs all the 30A requirements on my RV, and during Icepocalypse 2023, my SIL lost power for almost a week, and it ran pretty much non-stop that entire time, with no issues at all.

Anyway, I wouldn't shy away from the Champion or some of the other off-brands, just because they're not Hondas and Yamahas.  Ten years ago I wouldn't have said that, but I've had really good experiences with the Champion and the Predator (Harbor Freight).

Just one thing to note-- to hit that <$500 price point on a Champion 4000W dual fuel, you're looking at what they're calling an "inverter open frame."  I don't have any experience with that.  The standard open frame ones, are incredibly loud and will make you hate your life.  Standard inverter ones, are all closed-in and don't have that open frame, and they're much quieter.  But an "inverter open frame" is something I've never used and don't know anything about.  Definitely worth checking its specs and if possible listening to one in real time.

Good luck!

 

[davidg 4036]

I have an open frame 4kw Ryobi inverter generator. Have put 50-60 hrs on it over a couple years boondocking with the rv. Happy with its performance but would probably look at the HF u it’s if buying today.

[markstanco 12570]

I wish I had a generator about 10-30 hours a year here in north texas. But I don’t get my coastal buddies that don’t have one.

[Catpfish 618]

Had the Champion 7200w open frame inverter and it's pretty loud.  I gave it to my mom after I had a Generac installed.  It works for them since they can put it outside the garage and they don't hear it much (helps being hard of hearing), but I'm not sure about their neighbors (they live in a one acre lot subdivision).  It handled 3 refrigerator/freezers, coffee maker , phone charging, TV and satellite receiver and portable lamp for several days without any issues.

[utee94 15804]

Yeah a pure open frame is really, really loud.

Just looked and it looks like the standard Champion open frame runs around 68 dBA.  The quietest inverter generators run between 58-60 dBA.  And the Champion "inverter open frame" mentioned above, is about 64dBA.

Keep in mind that decibel scale is logarithmic and not linear, so the difference from that quiet generator at 58 dBA, and the loud open-frame at 68 dBA, is 10X.  The loud one is 10X louder.  

So the "inverter open frame" is somewhere in between those two.

 

[Armybrat 40821]

My brother is having one of these 48 KW Generacs installed this week. It is replacing the 18 KW Generac that he’s had behind his house for 20 years. 
His son took the old one to his Hill Country house.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-Protector-RG04845ANAC-Standby-Generator/p106946.html

[EdTomBell 31]

Have had a good experience with a champion dual fuel 4500w.  Pretty quiet, plus electric start. Enclosed variety. Price appears to have gone up on Amazon though…>$1k. 

[66BUFF 2562]

Odd fucking hobby.

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

32 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

Odd fucking hobby.

thatsmyfetish.gif ?

I just have a 2K Honda to run a few things if the grid goes down.  Should probably get another one to run in parallel.  I converted to to run on LP as I don't want to mess with keeping gas, rotating said gas, etc... bought a big ass propane tank (you can refill them at Uhaul rent centers) and keep a few of the smaller 20lb tanks around as well.  I've run fridge, fans, TV/internet and some lamps.  

 

 

[royiv 9246]

19 hours ago, Armybrat said:

My brother is having one of these 48 KW Generacs installed this week. It is replacing the 18 KW Generac that he’s had behind his house for 20 years. 
His son took the old one to his Hill Country house.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-Protector-RG04845ANAC-Standby-Generator/p106946.html

Does your brother live in the White House? That's a lot of power. I live in a 3500sf house and have a 26kw Kohler that easily powers my entire home.

[Armybrat 40821]

He lives in the 20 year old very well insulated custom built 3,200 sq/ft house below.

His old Generac is visible below.

A 1,000 gallon propane tank is buried underground off to the left of the photo.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Armybrat

[Your Mom 4805]

Things like generators are the perfect reason to be a member of Consumer Reports.  The level of short term and long term testing they do is impressive. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/home-garden/generators/best-and-worst-inverter-generators-a9189700579/

[Post Oak 20205]

Do you have the article?

[Parliament 14232]

Honda inverter; don't be a troglodyte.  And one that's for sure big enough.

[AUinHsv 579]

Unless someone talks me out of it - this is on sale for 699.00 in store at Costco.

https://www.costco.com/firman-3200w-running--4000w-peak-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.100843922.html

Another question - I need some sort of cable/gender bender etc to allow me to attach 110 volt cords to the generator's RV port. Any recommendations here?

 

[utee94 15804]

4 hours ago, AUinHsv said:

Unless someone talks me out of it - this is on sale for 699.00 in store at Costco.

https://www.costco.com/firman-3200w-running--4000w-peak-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.100843922.html

Another question - I need some sort of cable/gender bender etc to allow me to attach 110 volt cords to the generator's RV port. Any recommendations here?

 

That unit already has two standard 20A 120VAC outlets, is there a reason you'd want to connect to the RV outlet instead?

Anyway, in RV parlance what you're looking for is called a "dogbone" and this one would do the trick:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone-Electrical-Innovative-PowerGrip/dp/B000BUQOG8/ref=asc_df_B000BUQOG8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309819400004&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13553166532755230565&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-448728765006&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60510211606&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309819400004&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13553166532755230565&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-448728765006

Overall that looks like a solid unit, assuming it works okay.  57dB is about as quiet as the best Honda, assuming it's as advertised. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by utee94

[AUinHsv 579]

9 hours ago, utee94 said:

That unit already has two standard 20A 120VAC outlets, is there a reason you'd want to connect to the RV outlet instead?

Anyway, in RV parlance what you're looking for is called a "dogbone" and this one would do the trick:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone-Electrical-Innovative-PowerGrip/dp/B000BUQOG8/ref=asc_df_B000BUQOG8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309819400004&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13553166532755230565&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-448728765006&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60510211606&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309819400004&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13553166532755230565&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-448728765006

Overall that looks like a solid unit, assuming it works okay.  57dB is about as quiet as the best Honda, assuming it's as advertised. 

yeah i want more cords going into the house. The thought is to split the 30 amp two ways - one to refrig and one for microwave/coffee maker. That leaves 2 other cords for lights, computers etc

[davidg 4036]

yeah i want more cords going into the house. The thought is to split the 30 amp two ways - one to refrig and one for microwave/coffee maker. That leaves 2 other cords for lights, computers etc

Ideally, you’d need to make a small portable sub panel to break the 30A circuit out to 15/20a loads, similar to what’s done for the 15a circuits on your genset.

An better way is to get a 50A generator inlet wired into your breaker panel through a 50 a breaker and mains interlock. Then use a 30A to 50a dogbone to your genset. This will work for that 4kw genset up to a 12kw.

Check out the What are you buying for the next grid failure? Thread had a lot of movement after the 2021 ice storm.

[AUinHsv 579]

Fortunately Huntsville, Al is not on ERCOT's grid. I am not planning for 10 days but want to keep the TV and refrig working for 1-2. I can't do anything thru the breaker box. I am in a historic/older neighborhood and my breaker box is early 1970's. Perfectly legal but wiring anything into it will probably require a new box. I priced that out at 10 grand a couple of years ago because I still have a few older circuits that don't meet new codes.

[Paul Wesley 3278]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, utee94 said:

 

Keep in mind that decibel scale is logarithmic and not linear, so the difference from that quiet generator at 58 dBA, and the loud open-frame at 68 dBA, is 10X.  The loud one is 10X louder.  

 

Username checks out.

[Jkwellborn 6686]

yeah i want more cords going into the house. The thought is to split the 30 amp two ways - one to refrig and one for microwave/coffee maker. That leaves 2 other cords for lights, computers etc

You can buy plugs/adapters/cords that break the cords off on each leg of power.

[utee94 15804]

 

On 8/21/2023 at 5:16 AM, AUinHsv said:

yeah i want more cords going into the house. The thought is to split the 30 amp two ways - one to refrig and one for microwave/coffee maker. That leaves 2 other cords for lights, computers etc

OK...

On 8/21/2023 at 10:42 AM, davidg said:

Ideally, you’d need to make a small portable sub panel to break the 30A circuit out to 15/20a loads, similar to what’s done for the 15a circuits on your genset.
 

Yes.

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

You can buy plugs/adapters/cords that break the cords off on each leg of power.

It's what davidg said above, he'd really need to run the 30A service into a small breakerbox that drives a couple of 15A/20A circuits.

But now I'm worried about how much power he thinks he can actually draw from that genny?  It's not going to magically deliver more than  3200W steady state no matter how many cords you plug into it.  At 120V, that 3200W represents ~27A.  Your two 120V outlets can already provide up to 20A of that, so you're not going to get a ton more out of the 30A, or vice versa.

Anyway, something like the panel below  would cover what you're thinking about.  You drive the 30A service into it (be sure you're using 10/2 or better) and then split with 15A/20A breakers inside that box, to drive the new legs of the circuit. 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PowerMark-Gold-40-Amp-2-Space-4-Circuit-Indoor-Single-Phase-Main-Lug-Circuit-Breaker-Panel-TL240SCUP/202978667#overlay

 

 

[AUinHsv 579]

I think what i wanted got over complicated. By splitting the 30 amp I just meant two lines - not 15/15. This actually did it perfectly and 3 ways

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Voltec-Generator-Adapter-04-00215/206699604

Tested over the weekend. Ran refridg on one line, washer on another and some small stuff on third line. No issues. Only issue was the instructions - I hate the "idiot proof" instructions that are drawings with no words. A picture of a funnel means to put oil in etc.  Only thing I would improve would be a power guage to show how much power is being used. No idea if I was pulling 1000 watts or 2000. Pretty sure it wasn't more than that with only a few items but would like to know

 

[Jkwellborn 6686]

I think what i wanted got over complicated. By splitting the 30 amp I just meant two lines - not 15/15. This actually did it perfectly and 3 ways
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Voltec-Generator-Adapter-04-00215/206699604
Tested over the weekend. Ran refridg on one line, washer on another and some small stuff on third line. No issues. Only issue was the instructions - I hate the "idiot proof" instructions that are drawings with no words. A picture of a funnel means to put oil in etc.  Only thing I would improve would be a power guage to show how much power is being used. No idea if I was pulling 1000 watts or 2000. Pretty sure it wasn't more than that with only a few items but would like to know
 

I’ve got one at the house that has something like you want on it. I’ve never messed with it. My step dad used to.

[davidg 4036]

Not over complicated, it’s just that the splitter you bought doesn’t have any internal fusing to limit the 5-15R receptacles to 20A. In an overload situation, you could drawn all of your generators 27A through one receptacle which might start burning wires on the splitter or whatever cords you have plugged into it. All you extension cord are outdoor rated 10 or 12 AWG (depending on distance), right?

That’s why I commented about having a sub panel system. If you correctly wire in a generator inlet to your existing panel, you already have all the fusing/circuit breakers in place to protect that wiring.

[utee94 15804]

5 minutes ago, davidg said:

Not over complicated, it’s just that the splitter you bought doesn’t have any internal fusing to limit the 5-15R receptacles to 20A. In an overload situation, you could drawn all of your generators 27A through one receptacle which might start burning wires on the splitter or whatever cords you have plugged into it. All you extension cord are outdoor rated 10 or 12 AWG (depending on distance), right?

That’s why I commented about having a sub panel system. If you correctly wire in a generator inlet to your existing panel, you already have all the fusing/circuit breakers in place to protect that wiring.

I get why he doesn't want to wire into his main home panel-- on an old house, bringing everything up to code can get expensive quick.

But that doesn't mean he can't wire up a small portable panel like the one I linked.  Then he'd have circuit protection on all legs of the distribution.

I agree that the 3-way dogbone without any fused protection, could be problematic.

[AUinHsv 579]

15 minutes ago, davidg said:

Not over complicated, it’s just that the splitter you bought doesn’t have any internal fusing to limit the 5-15R receptacles to 20A. In an overload situation, you could drawn all of your generators 27A through one receptacle which might start burning wires on the splitter or whatever cords you have plugged into it. All you extension cord are outdoor rated 10 or 12 AWG (depending on distance), right?

That’s why I commented about having a sub panel system. If you correctly wire in a generator inlet to your existing panel, you already have all the fusing/circuit breakers in place to protect that wiring.

I am following your logic but here goes..  I absoutely have outdoor rated cords. I can't see anything drawing that many amps. The splitter will have a single line going to the refrig. The second line off the splitter goes to my cable modem, router etc.  Thats is it for the splitter. The TV and any other stuff uses the two standard 3 prong ports. That still leaves me a thrid unused connection off the splitter. What condition would cause more than 20A?