Top 50 Metro Areas by Electric Vehicle Registrations:

[Dahobbs 18181]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

The iX isn't really that at all, even comparing to the X5M, it wouldn't hold a candle. But the EV part of it is really irrelevant, it's the platform design.

Eh, I think battery weight and heat management partly dictate those design decisions. There are some trade offs that need to be made to make EVs work well on the track right now. Outside of the super cars, if you're looking for a fun track vehicle, I think ICEs are going to be the better options. 

[G650 14421]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Eh, I think battery weight and heat management partly dictate those design decisions. There are some trade offs that need to be made to make EVs work well on the track right now. Outside of the super cars, if you're looking for a fun track vehicle, I think ICEs are going to be the better options. 

As I said, the X5 and iX are about the same weight. And the iX has a lower COG

[Dahobbs 18181]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It wasn't just having a car you can track, it was the "visceral" (his words) feeling/sound/experience of an M car.  He also bounces around with cars.  He also had a 6.7 Tremor, then realized in the city they suck ass, and dropped back to a 150.  

Assuming the platform can manage the significantly increased weight

Oh, I got it. Look, sometimes you want to hear the rumble of a V-8 or a V-10 screaming. And sometimes you want your car to be a little lively and dangerous. Those sort of fun cars just aren't where EVs are right now. 

[Dahobbs 18181]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

As I said, the X5 and iX are about the same weight. And the iX has a lower COG

Maybe they'll make a proper M variant. 

[G650 14421]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Maybe they'll make a proper M variant. 

[BabaYaga 15532]

14 minutes ago, G650 said:

I don't think an M3 really qualifies. As I mentioned my personal car is a DBX 707

His first was a tuned M5 that was pushing well north of 700hp.  If you really want visceral, I have another old friend that has a replica Shelby that was clocked at 720hp on the dyno.  JFC, that thing is obnoxiously loud and fast.  And watch yourself getting in/out on those giant side pipes.  But it's nothing close to a comfortable DD.  It beats the crap out of you and you have to practically run slicks to keep it on the road.  Wife likes the X5, so we'll look at those and the X6.  550i with xDrive if I have a say.  

That being said, I drive a truck, so the little Kia Forte rental I had seemed quick top me....

[G650 14421]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

His first was a tuned M5 that was pushing well north of 700hp.  If you really want visceral, I have another old friend that has a replica Shelby that was clocked at 720hp on the dyno.  JFC, that thing is obnoxiously loud and fast.  And watch yourself getting in/out on those giant side pipes.  But it's nothing close to a comfortable DD.  It beats the crap out of you and you have to practically run slicks to keep it on the road.  Wife likes the X5, so we'll look at those and the X6.  550i with xDrive if I have a say.  

That being said, I drive a truck, so the little Kia Forte rental I had seemed quick top me....

 

Yeah my old man has a '67 Vette. As a teen I coveted it, but to be honest, I have almost no interest in really driving it anymore. It's super cool, but I'm a bigger fan of brakes and suspension these days. And body material other than fiberglass.

[MoJames 8258]

It's amazing how quickly those working in O&G came to this thread.

[BabaYaga 15532]

8 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Yeah my old man has a '67 Vette. As a teen I coveted it, but to be honest, I have almost no interest in really driving it anymore. It's super cool, but I'm a bigger fan of brakes and suspension these days. And body material other than fiberglass.

Resto-mods are the ticket

[Schulz2.0 29241]

53 minutes ago, MoJames said:

It's amazing how quickly those working in O&G came to this thread.

I work at a refinery, but I'm definitely an exception overall.

[Anwar Namtut 344]

59 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Yeah my old man has a '67 Vette. As a teen I coveted it, but to be honest, I have almost no interest in really driving it anymore. It's super cool, but I'm a bigger fan of brakes and suspension these days. And body material other than fiberglass.

Same - I got it when he passed away and finally sold my half to my sister because I couldn't stand driving the thing. I'm sure it was great when new, but no power steering, no power brakes, etc. made it terrible to drive. Cool to look at, though.

To add to this thread, though I skipped a couple of pages, my daughter bought a Kia EV6 last year. It might be the fastest car (at least in a straight line) I've ever driven.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

In your earlier post you said you traded commodities, that's all I was referencing. As to the rest of your post, I have no idea why you're trying to fight about this. I don't care what you call things. 

I'm very familiar with externalities that distort the S&D curve (e.g., costs associated with CO2 emissions). But he was suggesting that there are externalities that affect prices but not the S&D curve. I was just trying to figure out what he was talking about. 

I don’t think we’re fighting. I think we’re arguing and both losing steam. You think it’s semantics, I know it’s not, and you’re now making defeatist comments like “I don’t care what you call things,” even though I said about a dozen posts ago that I didn’t care how YOU categorized things. 

2nd paragraph: that’s because there are such externalities. I listed several and you retreated to a textbook to tell you they’re still related to S&D when they’re clearly not. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MoJames said:

It's amazing how quickly those working in O&G came to this thread.

Not at all. Demand will only increase for at least the next 10 years. 

[MoJames 8258]

7 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Not at all. Demand will only increase for at least the next 10 years. 

Oh I'm not sure what is going to happen in 10 years, just like you. That being said, you are often the to quickest to come shit on anything that suggests your way of life is going to change and/or be threatened. 

The loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Oh I'm not sure what is going to happen in 10 years, just like you. That being said, you are often the to quickest to come shit on anything that suggests your way of life is going to change and/or be threatened. 

The loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room.

It’s clear renewables and EVs aren’t going away. I’m not shitting on them. Well, I shit on renewables for specific reasons. Call me loud all you want, it’s a message board. 83% of people live in non-OECD countries and will start to use much more oil that will outstrip the 17% that is actually getting more efficient and whose oil consumption is actually shrinking. You know crude is a global commodity, and we never consider poor countries. Demand will increase significantly over the next 10 years, even with a proliferation of EVs, and I absolutely know this, and am putting my money where my loud mouth is. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

16 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Oh I'm not sure what is going to happen in 10 years, just like you. That being said, you are often the to quickest to come shit on anything that suggests your way of life is going to change and/or be threatened. 

The loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room.

I don’t think anyone is threatened.  You’re talking <15 years for most of the O&G folks on this board to be retired.  Things are going to change.  ICE vehicles will still be around (even at 50%) when my grandkids are driving.  There will be more EVs.  Right now Texas can barely keep its lights on thru the year.   I can easily see EV taking off, then getting set back another decade after a few more snopocalypse type no power events.  

[MoJames 8258]

14 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

It’s clear renewables and EVs aren’t going away. I’m not shitting on them. Well, I shit on renewables for specific reasons. Call me loud all you want, it’s a message board. 83% of people live in non-OECD countries and will start to use much more oil that will outstrip the 17% that is actually getting more efficient and whose oil consumption is actually shrinking. You know crude is a global commodity, and we never consider poor countries. Demand will increase significantly over the next 10 years, even with a proliferation of EVs, and I absolutely know this, and am putting my money where my loud mouth is. 

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t think anyone is threatened.  You’re talking <15 years for most of the O&G folks on this board to be retired.  Things are going to change.  ICE vehicles will still be around (even at 50%) when my grandkids are driving.  There will be more EVs.  Right now Texas can barely keep its lights on thru the year.   I can easily see EV taking off, then getting set back another decade after a few more snopocalypse type no power events.  

Yet here you both are, putting up walls of texts, after a post regarding what towns have the most EVs. Not sure anyone here cares what you guys forecast in regards to Energy use globally over the next 10-20 years. 

[MoJames 8258]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Right now Texas can barely keep its lights on thru the year.   I can easily see EV taking off, then getting set back another decade after a few more snopocalypse type no power events.  

Anecdotally, Colorado with record snow falls this year had no issues at all keeping the lights on. Sounds like it's a Texas problem, not an America problem.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Yet here you both are, putting up walls of texts, after a post regarding what towns have the most EVs. Not sure anyone here cares what you guys forecast in regards to Energy use globally over the next 10-20 years. 

It’s relevant and you care enough to respond. 

8 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Anecdotally, Colorado with record snow falls this year had no issues at all keeping the lights on. Sounds like it's a Texas problem, not an America problem.

It was a mild winter, Colorado is part of a multi-state grid, and fucking awesome bro. 

[Biff Tannen 46060]

1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

You know crude is a global commodity, and we never consider poor countries. Demand will increase significantly over the next 10 years, even with a proliferation of EVs, and I absolutely know this, and am putting my money where my loud mouth is. 

What happens if there's a global movement to combat climate change and oil is restricted in some way.  Long shot, I know, but who's to say that couldn't happen?

[Dahobbs 18181]

21 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I don’t think we’re fighting. I think we’re arguing and both losing steam. You think it’s semantics, I know it’s not, and you’re now making defeatist comments like “I don’t care what you call things,” even though I said about a dozen posts ago that I didn’t care how YOU categorized things. 

2nd paragraph: that’s because there are such externalities. I listed several and you retreated to a textbook to tell you they’re still related to S&D when they’re clearly not. 

Guy, everything you listed is connected to supply and demand. Yes, I'm giving you the text book answer, because those text books are where the very concepts come from. An externality is a negative or positive effect on a third-party that isn't accounted for in the cost of the good/service. Because it distorts costs, it distorts the supply and demand relationship. But the things you listed aren't really externalities under the text book definition. Some of them are other examples of market failures. Some of them are just the result of our complex web of interconnected markets. 

Here is your list:

1) SPR releases are artificial. Biden releasing was successful to keeping the price down. It has fooled the market into keeping crude artificially low. Just wait. Crude will go back up very high, because those barrels aren’t organic. 

Government or private hoarding causes an "artificial" decrease in supply. Similarly, the sudden release of a hoarded supply will, in the short term, increase supply. The timing of releases may be artificial. But ultimately the increase in supply is what causes the price decrease. 

2) There is some geopolitical bullshit that can manifest itself in countless ways. Around ‘05-‘10, the Iranians would bomb either Saudis or Israelis. The scare would send crude up $5 in a day. The price would not go back down until ‘08, even when there was no supply disruption. For example, Israel has no oil. 

The supply didn't change, the demand did. A scare causes hoarding. Hoarding means increased demand. Increased demand means increased prices.

3) Goldman announces it forecasts crude to be $200 in the coming year or years. It sends crude up. There’s no reason for it, except they’re probably on the other side of a big position. 

Goldman's announcement either causes people to value crude more or identifies information that would cause others to value crude more. When people value crude more, they want to buy more of it. This is increased demand. Increased demand, results in increased prices. It doesn't really matter whether the increase in demand is rational or not. The increase occurs nonetheless. 

4) Berkshire Hathaway quietly amassed more Oxy and Chevron stock. People notice. Sends crude up. 

Berkshire's purchase causes people to value O&G stocks (and their commodities) more. Or perhaps its purchase was caused by some factor that other buyers also noticed. Whatever way the causality chain flows, people value crude more. When they value it more, they want to buy more of it. This is increased demand. Again, it doesn't matter whether it is rational, irrational, or speculative. It is still increased demand. And it still results in higher prices.  

5) Crude is down 2% on a particular week with nothing but tight inventory news. Alternative explanations are given. Chinese demand down, but most people don’t buy that because evidence is to the contrary. Traders explain it away as a stronger dollar and the generic profit taking, which can actually be true. 

Demand for crude was down. Why it was down, I can't tell, and neither can you. Maybe it was exchange rates. Maybe it was weakened demand from China. Maybe it was something completely irrational. It doesn't really matter. I don't try to understand every move the market makes or why it makes it. But I do know that in a market, price ultimately comes down to the interaction between supply and demand. 

[MoJames 8258]

15 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

It was a mild winter, Colorado is part of a multi-state grid, and fucking awesome bro. 

Also, thanks you the ineptitude of the Texas state grid, Colorado is looking to further improve their situation and continue to be able to have their residents not freeze to death.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/03/29/colorado-lawmakers-want-to-expand-electric-grid/

 

[BabaYaga 15532]

20 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What happens if there's a global movement to combat climate change and oil is restricted in some way.  Long shot, I know, but who's to say that couldn't happen?

Would that also include all the extensive mining needed to extract minerals to make all the batteries, solar panels, and other assorted materials needed for this energy source?  

[MoJames 8258]

26 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

It’s relevant and you care enough to respond. 

Oh I'm just a troll. I enjoy pointing out the obvious seeing your walls get larger and larger. You are like the Derka of Oil and Gas.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What happens if there's a global movement to combat climate change and oil is restricted in some way.  Long shot, I know, but who's to say that couldn't happen?

Impossible unless we want to go back to the 1800s. It’s literally impossible and not worth having the discussion. I guarantee you some western country would’ve tried this if this utopia were even somewhat doable. 

35 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Guy, everything you listed is connected to supply and demand. Yes, I'm giving you the text book answer, because those text books are where the very concepts come from. An externality is a negative or positive effect on a third-party that isn't accounted for in the cost of the good/service. Because it distorts costs, it distorts the supply and demand relationship. But the things you listed aren't really externalities under the text book definition. Some of them are other examples of market failures. Some of them are just the result of our complex web of interconnected markets. 

Here is your list:

1) SPR releases are artificial. Biden releasing was successful to keeping the price down. It has fooled the market into keeping crude artificially low. Just wait. Crude will go back up very high, because those barrels aren’t organic. 

Government or private hoarding causes an "artificial" decrease in supply. Similarly, the sudden release of a hoarded supply will, in the short term, increase supply. The timing of releases may be artificial. But ultimately the increase in supply is what causes the price decrease. 

2) There is some geopolitical bullshit that can manifest itself in countless ways. Around ‘05-‘10, the Iranians would bomb either Saudis or Israelis. The scare would send crude up $5 in a day. The price would not go back down until ‘08, even when there was no supply disruption. For example, Israel has no oil. 

The supply didn't change, the demand did. A scare causes hoarding. Hoarding means increased demand. Increased demand means increased prices.

3) Goldman announces it forecasts crude to be $200 in the coming year or years. It sends crude up. There’s no reason for it, except they’re probably on the other side of a big position. 

Goldman's announcement either causes people to value crude more or identifies information that would cause others to value crude more. When people value crude more, they want to buy more of it. This is increased demand. Increased demand, results in increased prices. It doesn't really matter whether the increase in demand is rational or not. The increase occurs nonetheless. 

4) Berkshire Hathaway quietly amassed more Oxy and Chevron stock. People notice. Sends crude up. 

Berkshire's purchase causes people to value O&G stocks (and their commodities) more. Or perhaps its purchase was caused by some factor that other buyers also noticed. Whatever way the causality chain flows, people value crude more. When they value it more, they want to buy more of it. This is increased demand. Again, it doesn't matter whether it is rational, irrational, or speculative. It is still increased demand. And it still results in higher prices.  

5) Crude is down 2% on a particular week with nothing but tight inventory news. Alternative explanations are given. Chinese demand down, but most people don’t buy that because evidence is to the contrary. Traders explain it away as a stronger dollar and the generic profit taking, which can actually be true. 

Demand for crude was down. Why it was down, I can't tell, and neither can you. Maybe it was exchange rates. Maybe it was weakened demand from China. Maybe it was something completely irrational. It doesn't really matter. I don't try to understand every move the market makes or why it makes it. But I do know that in a market, price ultimately comes down to the interaction between supply and demand. 

I’m not talking about the supply and demand (your rebuttal above deals mainly with demand) of oil as an investor asset class. I’m literally speaking about barrels produced and consumed. Consumption (demand) generally always increases except during the pandemic. None of the factors hurt demand, or consumption. I’m speaking of situations when there’s a glut of barrels available because of US Shale development success that outstrips consumption that hasn’t grown at the same pace equating to downward pressure on oil price, and a glaring lack of supply outstripped by a growing consumption need equating to upward pressure (as exists now).   Now, I thought you were comingling actual barrels available and consumption need with the above noise/external/artificial factors. And they are simply not the same. 

18 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Also, thanks you the ineptitude of the Texas state grid, Colorado is looking to further improve their situation and continue to be able to have their residents not freeze to death.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/03/29/colorado-lawmakers-want-to-expand-electric-grid/

 

They should. To repeat, 2022-2023 was an extremely warm winter, and while 2021 highlighted issues with Colorado’s electricity, it isn’t like ERCOT. 

11 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Oh I'm just a troll. I enjoy pointing out the obvious seeing your walls get larger and larger. You are like the Derka of Oil and Gas.

Two responses to one post. 

[Biff Tannen 46060]

35 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Would that also include all the extensive mining needed to extract minerals to make all the batteries, solar panels, and other assorted materials needed for this energy source?  

This is a dumb argument. It’s like having your ear and your leg cut off, but instead of trying to fix the leg, you’re screaming about the ear. 
 

And cmon, a man can dream right?

[Dahobbs 18181]

45 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m not talking about the supply and demand (your rebuttal above deals mainly with demand) of oil as an investor asset class. I’m literally speaking about barrels produced and consumed.

* * * 

Now, I thought you were comingling actual barrels available and consumption need with the above noise/external/artificial factors

Yes, I know. That's what I was trying to say below.

23 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I get it now. You make a distinction between supply/demand market fundamentals and other issues that affect supply/demand, but are separate from the actual availability and consumption of oil and gas (or presumably any other commodity).  

Edited August 25, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 18181]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Would that also include all the extensive mining needed to extract minerals to make all the batteries, solar panels, and other assorted materials needed for this energy source?  

Yes? Complete life cycle CO2 emissions on these projects have been well studied. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, I know. That's why I was trying to say below.

So I’m confused. Have I been talking past you?

[Dahobbs 18181]

Just now, Porterhouse said:

So I’m confused. Have I been talking past you?

I think we were talking past each other. No worries. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I think we were talking past each other. No worries. 

[G650 14421]

I think we can all agree on how shitty Texas' power grid is

[royiv 9675]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

I think we can all agree on how shitty Texas' power grid is

Feature, not a bug.

[MoJames 8258]

1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

To repeat, 2022-2023 was an extremely warm winter

Do you just post shit and hope it's right?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Do you just post shit and hope it's right?

No. I know this because I study heating days above normal in the winter and it was a very warm winter. It may have been cooler for Colorado, but again, CO isn’t saddled with ERCOT. It is also a grid very much accustomed to colder weather. 

[MoJames 8258]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

No. I know this because I study heating days above normal in the winter and it was a very warm winter. It may have been cooler for Colorado, but again, CO isn’t saddled with ERCOT. It is also a grid very much accustomed to colder weather. 

It's raining at my house, glad I have a intact roof

Porter's logic
Most places it isn't raining

Yeah but it is raining at my house, glad I give a shit about my roof

Porter's logic
Yeah but I study rain, and it's been down, so no need for a secure roof

[Guest]

6 hours ago, MoJames said:

It's raining at my house, glad I have a intact roof

Porter's logic
Most places it isn't raining

Yeah but it is raining at my house, glad I give a shit about my roof

Porter's logic
Yeah but I study rain, and it's been down, so no need for a secure roof

I understand what you’re saying. Perhaps you don’t understand your grid. Can’t help you with that. 

[closetohumping 17776]

16 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I understand what you’re saying. Perhaps you don’t understand your grid. Can’t help you with that. N

not all states have their own grid 

[MoJames 8258]

19 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I understand what you’re saying. Perhaps you don’t understand your grid. Can’t help you with that. 

Oh God your dense.

[fattyflattie 4640]

7 hours ago, G650 said:

I think we can all agree on how shitty Texas' power grid is

*can be.
 

I think 13 years in I’ve lost power less than 2 hours aside from one single 11 hour stint on the last day of snowpocalypse. 11 hours to the minute in a “rolling blackout”, when temps were back above freezing.  

[Guest]

11 hours ago, MoJames said:

Oh God your dense.

I understand exactly what you’re saying. It was a cold winter for large part of Colorado last year, or at least had much more snowfall. Regardless, in North America and Europe it was one of the warmest winters on record.

Colorado is not in “grid jail” like Texas is. In addition, the generation for its grid is accustomed to much colder weather than Texas. This is all pretty simple buddy.  If you’re not dense. 

11 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

*can be.
 

I think 13 years in I’ve lost power less than 2 hours aside from one single 11 hour stint on the last day of snowpocalypse. 11 hours to the minute in a “rolling blackout”, when temps were back above freezing.  

I lost power for 5 hours during Snowmageddon. Only time I’ve ever lost it. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, closetohumping said:

not all states have their own grid 

Thanks pal. 

[closetohumping 17776]

19 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Thanks pal. 

I’m not your pal, buddy

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I’m not your pal, buddy

Then stop offering unsolicited advice of obvious shit. 

[closetohumping 17776]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

Then stop offering unsolicited advice of obvious shit. 

Did I offer you advice, friend?

[closetohumping 17776]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:10 AM, RPM said:

I like Ford, but their EV game is all fucked up. That "Mustang" Mach E is an insult to any Mustang fan. The F150 Lightning is severely underperforming at work (gets around 30% range towing or loaded). They need better batteries.

[Homercles 10206]

That’s cool and all but…Porterhouse Lobo’d out?

[RDCanecutter 26851]

8 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

That thing's gonna get knocked over before the driver can even close Instagram.

Edited March 12 by RDCanecutter

[RPM 26557]

Let me guess, there's one at participating Ford dealers.

[closetohumping 17776]

33 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

That thing's gonna get knocked over before the driver can even close Instagram.

Ford basically ripped off teslas design.  Tesla has the big oval in the middle to hold the cord, Fords appears to be for aesthetic purposes

Edited March 12 by closetohumping