Jim Jordan

[sheeeit 129]

I have debated commenting on this thread because of the predictable nature of the responses.  It represents everything that is bad with todays journalism/twitter/political world.  No one cares for the actual facts and by the time the twitter world and non reputable journalists and message board dolts are done the actual truth is long gone.

Obviously, any type of sexual abuse is bad and the perps deserve punishment.  

As best I can tell, there are 2 former wrestlers that say that they voiced their concerns with a group that included Jordan and the Head Coach.  No one has said that anyone went one on one with Jordan about the abuse and that Jordan did nothing.  Both of the wrestlers that have come out in public have specifically said that they never had any direct conversations with Jordan.  In fact, the Head Coach did contact the Dr. involved according to his testimony.  And, from that time, there were not any other complaints from the wrestlers.  So  2 wrestlers come forward and the Head Coach takes action and then no other complaints were made by wrestlers.  What exactly should Jordan have done?  He was the assistant coach and his head coach addressed the issue.

From the Perkins Coie report, they estimate that there were potentially 1500 athletes across 14 different sports that were affected.  But the biggest and certainly most public blame is going towards the assistant wrestling coach.

It is also worth noting that just as many wrestlers say Jordan probably did not know of the abuse as there are those that say he did know.  Also, the head coach and all of the other assistant coaches have declared that Jordan was not aware of abuse.

Certainly an investigation into the whole escapade is warranted.  And certainly Jordan needs to be part of that investigation.  If there is actual proof that he knew of the abuse and did nothing about it, then he deserves to be punished and should resign.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

7 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

 

It is also worth noting that just as many wrestlers say Jordan probably did not know of the abuse as there are those that say he did know.  Also, the head coach and all of the other assistant coaches have declared that Jordan was not aware of abuse.

 

Actually its not worth noting at all.   Let's say that 100 wrestlers knew this doc was doing something wrong and only 1 of the wrestlers took it to the asst coach, who did nothing.   Do we declare the asst to be in a good position since 99 wrestlers didn't tell him anything?   If 1 out of a 1000 told Jordan, he should have acted.  He's not a court of law that requires 50% +1 in order to act.

Finally how would any other wrestler be able to comment on what someone else told Jordan.   I can't make a statement claiming I know what Person A told Person B or what Person B knows or doesn't know.    People can only comment on what they know or saw occur.  Otherwise it's only an opinion.   

Jordan may very well have had zero knowledge.  I always agree that the past was a different time and it can be unfair to judge someone based on today's social rules from actions of decades ago.   Sexual abuse isn't a grey area but I also don't know if Jordan was specially told that this doc was abusing people.   

In today's world, Jordan very well could be guilty of a crime as an educator that failed to report abuse or suspected abuse.  However I assume it wasn't a crime at that time.  Morally he's in a bad position and there's no disputing that.

[Fozzz 152]

 

lmao.  With people like Gaetz holding office, why doesn't Alex Jones run for congress?

[Js1 85121]

Oh Matt Gaetz, you silly alcoholic. Any other DUIs your father paid off to go away?

[sheeeit 129]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Actually its not worth noting at all.   Let's say that 100 wrestlers knew this doc was doing something wrong and only 1 of the wrestlers took it to the asst coach, who did nothing.   Do we declare the asst to be in a good position since 99 wrestlers didn't tell him anything?   If 1 out of a 1000 told Jordan, he should have acted.  He's not a court of law that requires 50% +1 in order to act

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Actually its not worth noting at all.   Let's say that 100 wrestlers knew this doc was doing something wrong and only 1 of the wrestlers took it to the asst coach, who did nothing.   Do we declare the asst to be in a good position since 99 wrestlers didn't tell him anything?   If 1 out of a 1000 told Jordan, he should have acted.  He's not a court of law that requires 50% +1 in order to act.

Finally how would any other wrestler be able to comment on what someone else told Jordan.   I can't make a statement claiming I know what Person A told Person B or what Person B knows or doesn't know.    People can only comment on what they know or saw occur.  Otherwise it's only an opinion.   

Jordan may very well have had zero knowledge.  I always agree that the past was a different time and it can be unfair to judge someone based on today's social rules from actions of decades ago.   Sexual abuse isn't a grey area but I also don't know if Jordan was specially told that this doc was abusing people.   

In today's world, Jordan very well could be guilty of a crime as an educator that failed to report abuse or suspected abuse.  However I assume it wasn't a crime at that time.  Morally he's in a bad position and there's no disputing that.

 

This is my basic problem with this post and, to me, represents what I have been talking about.  You fully admit that "Jordan may very well have had zero knowledge.".  I agree with this and I also agree that he might have known about it.  But you then post that "Morally he's in a bad position and there's no disputing that.".  How can you say there is no disputing that he is in a morally bad position and also say he may not have known?  

The way this story has been told and then exaggerated by twitter and posts and everything else, the vast majority of people are convinced that Jordan knew of sexual abuse and did not report it.  I am not even sure what was purported to have happened is actually sexual abuse.  Exactly ZERO wrestlers have said they said something about the issue directly to Jordan.  All they have said is that Jordan, to the best of their memories from 27 years ago, was in a group of people that were discussing it.

My pure opinion is that it is hard to believe that Jordan was not aware that there was a creepy Dr. hanging around and that members of the team talked about it in a joking manner.  But if no one came forward to make a complaint against the Dr. I am not sure what people are expecting Jordan to have done.  Especially as an assistant wrestling coach.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

1 minute ago, sheeeit said:

My pure opinion is that it is hard to believe that Jordan was not aware that there was a creepy Dr. hanging around and that members of the team talked about it in a joking manner.  But if no one came forward to make a complaint against the Dr. I am not sure what people are expecting Jordan to have done.  Especially as an assistant wrestling coach.

The additional wrestlers have only come forward AFTER Jordan denied any knowledge of the abuse.

I don't think any of them have any issues with how he handled himself 30 years ago.  It's the shit he's pulling now that is pissing them off.

A simple "I wish I had done more, but I will do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again" would have squashed this controversy in 24 hours.  

[sheeeit 129]

5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The additional wrestlers have only come forward AFTER Jordan denied any knowledge of the abuse.

I don't think any of them have any issues with how he handled himself 30 years ago.  It's the shit he's pulling now that is pissing them off.

A simple "I wish I had done more, but I will do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again" would have squashed this controversy in 24 hours.  

I can agree he should have released a better statement but releasing your statement would have ruined him by people just like you.  By saying "wish I had done more" admits that he knew there was an issue worth doing something about.

He probably just should have said " while i personally was never made aware of abuse by the Dr. it appears that there were issues and i welcome an investigation into the matter and I will cooperate in any way I can".  However, I think only an extremely naive person would think that would actually end it.  As soon as there was a whiff of sexual abuse and Jordan's name then it was out of control.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

3 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I can agree he should have released a better statement but releasing your statement would have ruined him by people just like you.  By saying "wish I had done more" admits that he knew there was an issue worth doing something about.

He probably just should have said " while i personally was never made aware of abuse by the Dr. it appears that there were issues and i welcome an investigation into the matter and I will cooperate in any way I can".  However, I think only an extremely naive person would think that would actually end it.  As soon as there was a whiff of sexual abuse and Jordan's name then it was out of control.

Personally, that statement would have been enough for me, but I do agree that there are some who would have still jumped all over it, because of who he is.  

I guess the lesson is that when you spend your entire political career making outrageous accusations and investigating every little detail about your political opponents, you better be damned sure your closet is empty of skeletons.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Chuckie Finster

[Huckleberry 32704]

4 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I can agree he should have released a better statement but releasing your statement would have ruined him by people just like you.  By saying "wish I had done more" admits that he knew there was an issue worth doing something about.

He probably just should have said " while i personally was never made aware of abuse by the Dr. it appears that there were issues and i welcome an investigation into the matter and I will cooperate in any way I can".  However, I think only an extremely naive person would think that would actually end it.  As soon as there was a whiff of sexual abuse and Jordan's name then it was out of control.

Can you think of any other reason why he wouldn't say he welcomes an investigation in his statement? Any other reason at all? Let's brainstorm together.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

9 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Can you think of any other reason why he wouldn't say he welcomes an investigation in his statement? Any other reason at all? Let's brainstorm together.

I wasn't going to go this far, but it is the obvious first thought when someone categorically denies something that everyone else acknowledges to be true.

[sheeeit 129]

7 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Personally, that statement would have been enough for me, but I do agree that there are some who would have still jumped all over it, because of who he is.  

I guess the lesson is that when you spend your entire political career making outrageous accusations and investigating every little detail about your political opponents, you better be damned sure your closet is empty of skeletons.

Agreed.  And if we take it further, do any of us actually want to elect a person that has zero skeletons?  I actually like the fact that Obama smoked a little and maybe tried coke.  I can not imagine the crazy that would exist in my mind if I never did things I wasn't always proud of.

[sheeeit 129]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Can you think of any other reason why he wouldn't say he welcomes an investigation in his statement? Any other reason at all? Let's brainstorm together.

Well since you clearly have not researched anything I am not surprised by this post.  If you had done 2 minutes of research you would have learned that Jordan was receiving constant emails from a former wrestler claiming that Jordan knew of the "abuse" and Jordan turned those emails over to the capital police.  Great strategy to cover up something by alerting the police about it.

Also, his office put out a statement weeks ago saying that Jordan has not been questioned or requested at all by the investigators and would be happy to cooperate and assist in any he can.  But your take is probably better.

[Huckleberry 32704]

I agree I haven't researched anything, but that's mostly because I don't consider reading news stories on current events to be research.

I'm well aware of what's gone on with this story. I was merely commenting on your repeated tendency to interpret everything as rosily as possible for one side and as nefariously as possible for the other. It's actually humorous to watch in action so don't think I'm upset about it. It's entertaining.

[sheeeit 129]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I agree I haven't researched anything, but that's mostly because I don't consider reading news stories on current events to be research.

I'm well aware of what's gone on with this story. I was merely commenting on your repeated tendency to interpret everything as rosily as possible for one side and as nefariously as possible for the other. It's actually humorous to watch in action so don't think I'm upset about it. It's entertaining.

Gotcha.  So when you speculated that there might be reasons that Jordan would not welcome an investigation when you obviously knew that he had already welcomed the investigation and volunteered to assist in any way he could (I mean you had to know that since you are "well aware of what's gone on with this story") you were just being a disingenuous asshole?  That does sound entertaining.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

53 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

This is my basic problem with this post and, to me, represents what I have been talking about.  You fully admit that "Jordan may very well have had zero knowledge.".  I agree with this and I also agree that he might have known about it.  But you then post that "Morally he's in a bad position and there's no disputing that.".  How can you say there is no disputing that he is in a morally bad position and also say he may not have known?  

The way this story has been told and then exaggerated by twitter and posts and everything else, the vast majority of people are convinced that Jordan knew of sexual abuse and did not report it.  I am not even sure what was purported to have happened is actually sexual abuse.  Exactly ZERO wrestlers have said they said something about the issue directly to Jordan.  All they have said is that Jordan, to the best of their memories from 27 years ago, was in a group of people that were discussing it.

My pure opinion is that it is hard to believe that Jordan was not aware that there was a creepy Dr. hanging around and that members of the team talked about it in a joking manner.  But if no one came forward to make a complaint against the Dr. I am not sure what people are expecting Jordan to have done.  Especially as an assistant wrestling coach.

I saw one of wrestlers TV interviewed that said Jordan knew about it, and was listening to conversations when wrestlers were discussing it.  And no, I'm not going to find the link.  Look for it yourself.

[wildcat09 29266]

41 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I can agree he should have released a better statement but releasing your statement would have ruined him by people just like you.  By saying "wish I had done more" admits that he knew there was an issue worth doing something about.

He probably just should have said " while i personally was never made aware of abuse by the Dr. it appears that there were issues and i welcome an investigation into the matter and I will cooperate in any way I can".  However, I think only an extremely naive person would think that would actually end it.  As soon as there was a whiff of sexual abuse and Jordan's name then it was out of control.

Obviously the better response was to slander the victims.

[atomheartbevo 89455]

Memories do admittedly get hazy. I’m sure plenty of guys here got thoroughly checked for prostate cancer every month or two when they were in high school.  Ask them about it now, and they may start thinking that those exams were odd and they may get a fuzzy feeling in their head and that maybe the doctor had both hands on their hips when they were being examined. 

[Pods 7530]

Why are y'all arguing with sheeeit, rather than ignoring him and waiting for him to log in as one of his socks to explain what he meant and try to get discussion going that way?

I'm disappointed guys. sheeeit is only entertaining when you make him work a bit.  

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Memories do admittedly get hazy. I’m sure plenty of guys here got thoroughly checked for prostate cancer every month or two when they were in high school.  Ask them about it now, and they may start thinking that those exams were odd and they may get a fuzzy feeling in their head and that maybe the doctor had both hands on their hips when they were being examined. 

Sounds like you had a hell of a high school experience.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Chuckie Finster

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Memories do admittedly get hazy. I’m sure plenty of guys here got thoroughly checked for prostate cancer every month or two when they were in high school.  Ask them about it now, and they may start thinking that those exams were odd and they may get a fuzzy feeling in their head and that maybe the doctor had both hands on their hips when they were being examined. 

I can confirm this. I was the equipment manager for my high school wrestling team and I would personally check every wrestler's prostate each month. Prostate health is not a joke. 

[NWBuck 8548]

Great article on the investigation into this situation, specifically about the whistleblower who's brought it forward:

11W: Them Too

[sheeeit 129]

19 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I saw one of wrestlers TV interviewed that said Jordan knew about it, and was listening to conversations when wrestlers were discussing it.  And no, I'm not going to find the link.  Look for it yourself.

OK.  Just be clear.  If you watched wrestlers talking about it on TV and believe them (nothing wrong with that) then just say that.  But you can not say you accept that there is a chance Jordan knew nothing but then assert there is no chance he is not in a morally bad position.   

[jimmyjazz 45565]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:03 PM, Hank Scorpio said:

I can confirm this. I was the equipment manager for my high school wrestling team and I would personally check every wrestler's prostate each month. Prostate health is not a joke. 

I was on the high school wrestling team and we hated the equipment manager, precisely for this very reason.  Coach was obsessed about prostrate health.  Sometimes he videotaped the exams.  I don't remember him being actually involved in the exams themselves, but there was one time when the equipment manager's finger got a lot bigger and everything went hazy.  I just thought it was his class ring, but maybe not?

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

Good lord why didn't my high school have a wresting team?  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

 

[yaqdum 182]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

hmm . . . lessee.  al franken has to go and jim jordan gets to stay.  yeah, right.

[The People’s Elbow 707]

Didn’t Franken — a fucking senator, no less — get pushed to resign for something pretty equivalent? 

[Chad Fuck 17568]

He was forced to resign because the Dems have higher standards in this regard.  

R - turn the other way while kids get diddled, no problem.

D - Do a comedy bit that was not cool in retrospect, resign as Senator.  

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

6 minutes ago, The People’s Elbow said:

Didn’t Franken — a fucking senator, no less — get pushed to resign for something pretty equivalent? 

Franken was pushed for making unwanted passes at women.  Mostly trying to get to first base.  It was bad behavior and he was prepared to be investigated and held accountable.

But the “zero tolerance” (the irony now) democrats calculated if Franken resigned and Roy Moore won, it would force the republicans to push him out.

It was nothing like this Jim Jordan scandal.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Farenthold was allowed to hang around forever before they finally decided to drop him as dead weight. (Pun intended). And that fucker was using taxpayer money to pay off his sex harassment victims. And then he promised to repay it out of his own funds, and then said "psych." So we are still stuck with the tab.  

[David Dennison 18661]

Republicans understand that politics is about power. They will excuse nearly anything to protect that power.

 

[SizzleChest 8275]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Farenthold was allowed to hang around forever before they finally decided to drop him as dead weight. (Pun intended). And that fucker was using taxpayer money to pay off his sex harassment victims. And then he promised to repay it out of his own funds, and then said "psych." So we are still stuck with the tab.  

Well, ol' Blake got a shitload of love bumps on his ding-dong, so he got that out of it too.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

10 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Well, ol' Blake got a shitload of love bumps on his ding-dong, so he got that out of it too.

First dude whose venereal warts were somehow larger than his micro-talliwhacker

[Fozzz 152]

hahaha

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20714]

 

[Fozzz 152]

At least he only enabled sexual abuse...unlike that other GOP Speaker.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Fozzz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23362]

The best people 

[retread 2951]

Who does he think he is? Trump?

[swraith 336]

Even with Ryan retiring, this seems premature.

[yaqdum 182]

31 minutes ago, swraith said:

premature

dude likes it premature.

[Chooky 13302]

Jim Jordan's statement this evening:

Quote

I've wrestled and wrestled with this decision.  And I've decided it's best for me to insert myself and push through.  That's why I've decided to put it all on the table and just lay back and let whatever happens happen.

 

[zork 629]

9 hours ago, Fozzz said:

At least he only enabled sexual abuse...unlike that other GOP Speaker.

Jordan was 23 when he took the job at Ohio State.  The Dr had been there for many years before Jordan arrived.  The head coach, who hired Jordan, talked to the Dr. since he was the head coach.  

The head coach is where the blame lies and the Dr who was doing the dirty deeds of course is the ultimate blamed.  Maybe Jordan could have done more as a beginning assistant head coach but it was not his duty since the head coach did take care of it. 

Jordan is not being accused of diddling/abusing anyone AFAIK.

[Ted Lange 16054]

Art Briles isn’t being accused of raping anyone. #CAB

 

/Baylor Fans

[zork 629]

8 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Art Briles isn’t being accused of raping anyone. #CAB

 

/Baylor Fans

Right, Art Briles was the head coach.

[David Dennison 18661]

43 minutes ago, zork said:

Jordan was 23 when he took the job at Ohio State.  The Dr had been there for many years before Jordan arrived.  The head coach, who hired Jordan, talked to the Dr. since he was the head coach.  

The head coach is where the blame lies and the Dr who was doing the dirty deeds of course is the ultimate blamed.  Maybe Jordan could have done more as a beginning assistant head coach but it was not his duty since the head coach did take care of it. 

Jordan is not being accused of diddling/abusing anyone AFAIK.

Amazing.

[Js1 85121]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

As Speaker, as in life, Jordan promises to always follow the Hastert Rule. 

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

I’m confused. Doesn’t GOP have to win a majority of house seats before they can elect a speaker?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

 

I didn't know he was the kid from Growing Pains 

[retread 2951]

What the hell, I'm being accused by numerous OSU exes indicting my behavior. I'll double down just like my orange hero.