America's Loneliness Epidemic

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

No doubt this correlates with our mass shooting epidemic.

I think there is a lot here.

[BabaYaga 15301]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

I'm married with a teen and a pre-teen.  I love my alone time.

Same.  My favorite vacation is when the rib takes one of them on the road for sports tournaments.  

[FartingMonk 3608]

Me and my navy buddies get together once a year.  The wives are cool with it.  We used to do destination travel.  Now we fly to San Antonio and go to our buddies million dollar house.  We sit there and just bullshit.  It's one of the most rewarding trips every year.  Life is tough.  Life sucks sometimes.  

[Sawbonz 27566]

I heard somewhere that one is the loneliest number

[MonkeyDoughnut 10275]

50 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Communication as a whole is down for so many reasons. One that I refuse to do is wear headphones or a Bluetooth. I see this so much. You never know who you will pass by when you are out and intentionally isolating yourself is not good for your mental health. Take the time to say hi to a random person or help someone that needs it. Just talk to people. I am naturally reserved, but if I can push myself out of just observing society and actively taking part so can most everyone else.

Used to be you would talk with people while waiting everywhere, now you try that and you are some creep. Everyone is on their phones acting like I'm interrupting them solving cancer or something just trying to converse.  

Remember when coffee shops were about the conversation, hell they put your name on the cup for god sakes. Now people order on their app, show up to the pickup line and just nod when their name is called.

[UpperWestside 6169]

12 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Me and my navy buddies get together once a year.  The wives are cool with it.  We used to do destination travel.  Now we fly to San Antonio and go to our buddies million dollar house.  We sit there and just bullshit.  It's one of the most rewarding trips every year.  Life is tough.  Life sucks sometimes.  

One of the things I do is try and regularly call friends that do not live near me, especially the ones that are married and need a break to just shoot the breeze about sports or life in general. Sometimes I just sit and listen and give friends some free therapy. Stay in contact with as many folks as you can. You never know whose lifeline you are securing just by speaking to them. You can’t just say you support more engagement with people unless you are actively doing it. Humans are naturally prone to wanting to talk to each other. It is when we get isolated from people that things often go sideways. 

[UpperWestside 6169]

Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Used to be you would talk with people while waiting everywhere, now you try that and you are some creep. Everyone is on their phones acting like I'm interrupting them solving cancer or something just trying to converse.  

Remember when coffee shops were about the conversation, hell they put your name on the cup for god sakes. Now people order on their app, show up to the pickup line and just nod when their name is called.

Oh I agree with everything you are saying. I have the advantage of being a server so I can have an effect on several dozen people a day and I am paid well to do that. Part of why I love the job. 
 

When I am not working I am sitting in the park sometimes and will comment on someone’s dog when they walk past. Giving their best friend a compliment makes their day better. Recently I was coming back from the beach and a guy that turned out to be from Acapulco was standing by his friends tattoo shop a couple of avenues over from where I live. He made a comment to me about my bodyboard and then talked about surfing. He said to stop in anytime just to hangout and talk. Random encounters like that are sorely needed by so many people.

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

Agree with everything posted here about it being a problem and some of the suggestions.

However, you have to put yourself out there.  People are not going to beat a path to your door.  This applies to friendships as well as possible romantic relationships as well.  I hear men complain about not being able to meet women.  Go to where the women are.  Same with friends.  Whatever you like to do, there's likely a group for it.  Go there and do that with them.  Find your tribe.

 

[InkaUtexas 25955]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I spent a few weeks hiking in southern california this spring and this was the one absolute thing I learned about myself.

Yep, it can be rough. We think it is fun until the sunset hits and we realize there are critters out there that will eat your ass. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yep, it can be rough. We think it is fun until the sunset hits and we realize there are critters out there that will eat your ass. 

 

Haha, I actually never felt unsafe out there ever.  But hiking alone all day with my thoughts and then getting to camp by myself, not knowing if I would ever see my previous trail buddies again was mentally taxing.  Not being able to share my experience with people was hard.  I met some of the most wonderful souls out there.  We all had similar goals of what we were trying to get out of the experience and it restored my faith in humanity immediately.  The internet can take you to some dark places in that regard.  The anonymity is a horrible thing and brings out the worst in us.  As much as I love the shaggy community, in reality, we all should spend less time here and more in the real world with real people.  

Of course, football season starts tomorrow, so that's a great way to do it!

[MissingInAction 25105]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Naw, it’s remarkably easy to stop giving a shit when your team is horrendous every year.

You don't say...

[locodos 5387]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Odd way to describe your freaky threesomes, but you do you and you and you.

fifyayay

[Brisketexan 105154]

14 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Oh I agree with everything you are saying. I have the advantage of being a server so I can have an effect on several dozen people a day and I am paid well to do that. Part of why I love the job. 
 

When I am not working I am sitting in the park sometimes and will comment on someone’s dog when they walk past. Giving their best friend a compliment makes their day better. Recently I was coming back from the beach and a guy that turned out to be from Acapulco was standing by his friends tattoo shop a couple of avenues over from where I live. He made a comment to me about my bodyboard and then talked about surfing. He said to stop in anytime just to hangout and talk. Random encounters like that are sorely needed by so many people.

 

9 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Agree with everything posted here about it being a problem and some of the suggestions.

However, you have to put yourself out there.  People are not going to beat a path to your door.  This applies to friendships as well as possible romantic relationships as well.  I hear men complain about not being able to meet women.  Go to where the women are.  Same with friends.  Whatever you like to do, there's likely a group for it.  Go there and do that with them.  Find your tribe.

 

Y'all are talking about "weak ties."  And they are hugely important: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200701-why-your-weak-tie-friendships-may-mean-more-than-you-think

As posted above, humans are not meant to be alone.  Man is a social animal.  We are better when we are together.  Yes, among your loved ones.  Yes, among your close friends.  But also among humanity in the broader sense.

Some of the most profound, meaningful, and memorable moments of my life have been encounters with strangers.  We walk together for a while, share an experience, and move on.  But our worlds intersected, and we are both enriched by it.  And I also am fed emotionally by the weak relationships I have with the regular checker at my HEB, a barista I see often, the building security guard, any number of people whose paths cross mine regularly.  We know a bit about each other.  We each might wonder if the other person is absent for a while, and actually ask about them.  We all need that.  We need a LOT of it.

Used to be that if Jane didn't show up at church on 3 consecutive Sundays, several people would call her.  If Bob missed bowling league night, people would reach out.  Now, people don't go to church.  They aren't in a bowling league.  We are depriving ourselves of something our soul needs as nourishment, and we're poorer for it.  And any broader efforts to express an ethos behind it -- we're all in this together, we're a community, it takes a village, are actively vilified and demonized by society's loudest mouthpieces.  We're in a death spiral, and we're pushing forward on the throttle.

[InkaUtexas 25955]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Haha, I actually never felt unsafe out there ever.  But hiking alone all day with my thoughts and then getting to camp by myself, not knowing if I would ever see my previous trail buddies again was mentally taxing.  Not being able to share my experience with people was hard.  I met some of the most wonderful souls out there.  We all had similar goals of what we were trying to get out of the experience and it restored my faith in humanity immediately.  The internet can take you to some dark places in that regard.  The anonymity is a horrible thing and brings out the worst in us.  As much as I love the shaggy community, in reality, we all should spend less time here and more in the real world with real people.  

Of course, football season starts tomorrow, so that's a great way to do it!

I am supposed to walk the Camino Real next year. French friend wants to do it as well. We decided we would go together for this reason. I have walked a lot around Europe and always with a partner. Just to sit at the end of the day, set up camp and make dinner. Again, we are not a species that was designed to be alone. 

Had a talk with my son's boss a few days ago. Explained to him that this recent group of college and high school grads lost two years of socialization. They learned via Zoom and did not have the benefit I did of being able to go to lunch with my boss and ask him off work questions. It has an impact. Will be interesting to see the long term. 

On another side, work with a client, large Houston firm, that is still 75% remote. They fly in their Business Development team every few months. Team Meetings, they go to the Astros game and a team dinner. Their leadership saw the importance of human connection. 

I applaud that attitude. 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I am supposed to walk the Camino Real next year. French friend wants to do it as well. We decided we would go together for this reason. I have walked a lot around Europe and always with a partner. Just to sit at the end of the day, set up camp and make dinner. Again, we are not a species that was designed to be alone. 

Had a talk with my son's boss a few days ago. Explained to him that this recent group of college and high school grads lost two years of socialization. They learned via Zoom and did not have the benefit I did of being able to go to lunch with my boss and ask him off work questions. It has an impact. Will be interesting to see the long term. 

On another side, work with a client, large Houston firm, that is still 75% remote. They fly in their Business Development team every few months. Team Meetings, they go to the Astros game and a team dinner. Their leadership saw the importance of human connection. 

I applaud that attitude. 

I don't think it matters as much in a work environment.  Depending on the job of course, but if your entire job is in front of a computer and/or on the phone/zoom, without any team collaboration, full time remote is perfectly fine.

That said, I also keep my work life and regular life extremely separate.

[InkaUtexas 25955]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't think it matters as much in a work environment.  Depending on the job of course, but if your entire job is in front of a computer and/or on the phone/zoom, without any team collaboration, full time remote is perfectly fine.

That said, I also keep my work life and regular life extremely separate.

Agree, except we do a lot of team planning and being able to tell Bob he is wrong and prove it on a whiteboard is priceless. Coordination on massive, global projects is so damn important. I want to know the person. The other author on this project is cool. Got to have a beer with her and learned a lot from that 30 minute one on one. Helps me frame my approach. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10275]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't think it matters as much in a work environment.  Depending on the job of course, but if your entire job is in front of a computer and/or on the phone/zoom, without any team collaboration, full time remote is perfectly fine.

That said, I also keep my work life and regular life extremely separate.

I do just that and am going to have to disagree a bit, for myself at least. Work is what people spend the majority of their time in life doing. I don't think long term separation from interaction even if forced is a good thing. IMO It's good in chunks but not as a "norm".  There is definitely a "disconnected" feeling the longer you do it.

[Brisketexan 105154]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Agree, except we do a lot of team planning and being able to tell Bob he is wrong and prove it on a whiteboard is priceless. Coordination on massive, global projects is so damn important. I want to know the person. The other author on this project is cool. Got to have a beer with her and learned a lot from that 30 minute one on one. Helps me frame my approach. 

100000000000X this.

At least in my business, there's a shitload of strategic vision and planning (including pivots from same), task management and timelines, etc.  Collaboration is a central element of that.  Did we prove during the pandemic that we could get by on Zoom and such if we had to?  Sure.  But even since we've been back, have we seen how our performance and quality has improved by those EXACT kind of "everyone in a room with a white board and brainstorming" sessions?  Yep.

Learning how your team members tick, what their strengths and weaknesses are, how they perform in certain situations is both wildly important for us AND better for our clients.  But that seems like I'm making it all about work.  It's not.  It's about a lot more than that. 

Even if your job was to go pick fruit or chop cotton in a field all day, you built meaningful ties with the people picking fruit around you.  They made your day livable.  You laughed when someone picked a peach that had a spider on it and they screamed, whatever.  It was a HUMAN connection.  We need human connection.  If we work 8+ hours a day, then yes, we need it at work too.

[Felix 607]

 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

I keep trying, but that guy is just not funny.

[Snake Diggity 4625]

21 minutes ago, Felix said:

 

That was so unfunny it made me mad.

[Macanudo 12988]

4 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

I guess I am fortunate. Lived alone since the kiddos went off to college three years ago. This year invited a good friend to live at my place in the separate wing of the house. We are working on a screenplay and just made sense with the logistics. Work from home and taking care of dogs was getting old. Another friend got divorced and had no where to go. He is an Artist and this place allows him the space to paint. Plus they both get along well with my fiancé. 

So basically I set up an artist colony without realizing. We rotate cooking duties and it is a lot of time shooting the shit over a few beers in the kitchen. Sports rule the TV and the library has expanded. 

I am very happy my dad (Widower, 83) got involved with Civil Air Patrol. Gives him some people to hang out with and share their military experience. He has lunch with a few friends twice a week. 

Humans are not supposed to be alone.

@ztejas Tell us more about this tailgate. 

We found another gay guy!

[troph 24821]

4 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

I'm married with a teen and a pre-teen.  I love my alone time.

Same. Tonight (Friday) going to watch a BJJ fight with my wife and business partner at his house, then pick up my son from marching band at 11pm. All I want to do is put my feet up on the couch until bedtime.

Edited September 1, 2023 by troph

[WhatTheBuck 28786]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I heard somewhere that one is the loneliest number

It’s been said that two can be as bad as one. It’s like the second loneliest number. 

[UpperWestside 6169]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Agree, except we do a lot of team planning and being able to tell Bob he is wrong and prove it on a whiteboard is priceless. Coordination on massive, global projects is so damn important. I want to know the person. The other author on this project is cool. Got to have a beer with her and learned a lot from that 30 minute one on one. Helps me frame my approach. 

Next time Bob is wrong see if y’all can fly in Katie Porter for a Whiteboard Demonstration. That would be quite the meeting.

[Kennythetiger 9389]

29 minutes ago, troph said:

Same. Tonight (Friday) going to watch a BJJ fight with my wife and business partner at his house, then pick up my son from marching band at 11pm. All I want to do is put my feet up on the couch until bedtime.

If you read your post quickly and miss that second “J”, your story is a lot more intriguing. 

[Underdog 28709]

 

[troph 24821]

14 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

If you read your post quickly and miss that second “J”, your story is a lot more intriguing. 

I fully appreciate the importance of a Friday night BJ. Totally your ally on that. The world would be a safer, calmer, kinder, milder world if dudes all got Friday night blow jobs and then a tasty sandwich after.

[troph 24821]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Same.  My favorite vacation is when the rib takes one of them on the road for sports tournaments.  

Did you just call your wife a rib? 

[Wiler77 1566]

First, we all know Brisket is the Frasier of the Scot bar.  He is way too analytical to simply full of useless facts.

Second, I was in a customer meeting last week that I can stop thinking about. I work in tech. I have since I graduated. The idea of an 8 hour work day or a 40 hour week is a pipe dream. I've never really thought much about it and I assumed anyone that wasn't paid hourly or work for the government worked >40 hours a week because there is always more work to do.

This customer works for a multinational energy company and said they get every other Friday off. 9 days/80 hours was how he described it.  I laughed and made a comment that it sounds nice but "when was the last time you worked only 80 hours over 2 weeks." He looked at me like I was nuts and said "why do you think I got out of Tech.  The quality of life sucks."  This guy was a VP and his boss was sitting next to him and said "we want our workers to have a life out of work. It makes them more effective at work."  I was floored.

At New Years, my wife and I talk about resolutions. Mine is always, "I want to do more things with friends". Human interaction is so important. But every year it's the same--3 kids in school and activities, I work long hours and travel for work, and we also like family time. Shooting the shit with friends just doesn't happen. 9 days/80 hours, huh? Yes please.

[Brisketexan 105154]

14 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

First, we all know Brisket is the Frasier of the Scot bar.  He is way too analytical to simply full of useless facts.

Wait.... I get to be Frasier?  Does that include the Lilith package?  Because....I'm in.

[dcbc 14487]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Some of the most profound, meaningful, and memorable moments of my life have been encounters with strangers. 

I went to that Soulhat show last weekend.  There was an old biker dude next to me.  I made a little small talk about how we needed to be strong to keep the crowd for using us as a walkway.  Later, he asked me what the line was like at the bar (how would I know where the bar was?).  By the end of the night, he was buying me beers.  As my wife reminded me later, his name was "Cornbread."  He was a righteous dude.  I likely will never see him again, but that was fun.

 

/why didn't I get a picture?

[dcbc 14487]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Tonight (Friday) going to watch a BJJ fight with my wife and business partner at his house,

The business partner is going to have a BJJ fight with your wife at his house?

[dcbc 14487]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait.... I get to be Frasier?  Does that include the Lilith package?  Because....I'm in.

Sorry.  Best we can do is George.

 

[Brisketexan 105154]

3 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I went to that Soulhat show last weekend.  There was an old biker dude next to me.  I made a little small talk about how we needed to be strong to keep the crowd for using us as a walkway.  Later, he asked me what the line was like at the bar (how would I know where the bar was?).  By the end of the night, he was buying me beers.  As my wife reminded me later, his name was "Cornbread."  He was a righteous dude.  I likely will never see him again, but that was fun.

 

/why didn't I get a picture?

Love it.

Like the biker couple next to us at U2 at the Rose Bowl 6 years ago -- they were cool as shit, we drank and sang together.  They invited us to go hit the bars with them afterwards (yeah....it may have been that kind of invitation).  Whatever, they made the night more fun.

Or the newlywed couple next to us at the Killers show at MSG in New York last fall.  Young, cute and funny.  AND, she said just finished working on a documentary on the yogurt shop murders, so we talked about Austin.  And we gave our advice on being young and married.  Then we enjoyed the hell out of the show together.

Or the museum docent at the abandoned large manor in the middle of ass-nowhere in Estonia we met this last spring.  She was the only person there (we thought the museum was closed when we went in).  The three of us walked around, and she explained the museum, and life in that area in her broken english.  We helped fill in the blanks for words she couldn't come up with.  She told us about her life.  She was one of the best parts of the entire trip.

We all need more "Cornbreads" in our lives, man.

[Deej 76820]

That first year of COVID made me realize Im much happier when I don't have to go out and socialize. 

 

[RPM 26322]

 

[dcbc 14487]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We all need more "Cornbreads" in our lives, man.

In more ways than one, my man.  Those are great stories.  Concerts are great.  Meet those people around you.  I've met more strangers at concerts than I can recall.  The gal at the Rolling Stones (1989) in front of us at the Astrodome, who looked at the flag shirt I'd just bought with the "big lips/tongue" emblem as the stars 16-year-old DCBC just bought and said, "I hope those tongues don't come over here and start licking me during the show."  Then, she and her old-man each swallowed a handful of pills and started making out with each other (lots of tongue).  I don't think I ever got her name.

 

That was my first concert without my parents.  I still have the shirt.

 

You're going to do great as our man in Scotland. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by dcbc

[Js1 85372]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Love it.

Like the biker couple next to us at U2 at the Rose Bowl 6 years ago -- they were cool as shit, we drank and sang together.  They invited us to go hit the bars with them afterwards (yeah....it may have been that kind of invitation).  Whatever, they made the night more fun.

Or the newlywed couple next to us at the Killers show at MSG in New York last fall.  Young, cute and funny.  AND, she said just finished working on a documentary on the yogurt shop murders, so we talked about Austin.  And we gave our advice on being young and married.  Then we enjoyed the hell out of the show together.

Or the museum docent at the abandoned large manor in the middle of ass-nowhere in Estonia we met this last spring.  She was the only person there (we thought the museum was closed when we went in).  The three of us walked around, and she explained the museum, and life in that area in her broken english.  We helped fill in the blanks for words she couldn't come up with.  She told us about her life.  She was one of the best parts of the entire trip.

We all need more "Cornbreads" in our lives, man.

Damn, does everyone try to pick up you and your wife?

[Brisketexan 105154]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Damn, does everyone try to pick up you and your wife?

There's one member of the duo who rightly draws more attention.  And that member ain't me.  Even though I AM a charming SOB.

[Deej 76820]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

she said just finished working on a documentary on the yogurt shop murders

"We have a woman on our board who is the Town Lake Dumper. Small world."

[Sandman 3403]

32 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

But every year it's the same--3 kids in school and activities, I work long hours and travel for work, and we also like family time.

My friend has three kids and the youngest is now a senior. Me and our other friend, our kids are all out of school. I thought it would be easier for us to all get together once all the kids were driving and working or had graduated, but my one friend with the 3 kids just can't seem to make it happen. He denies it but we all know his wife keeps him on a short leash, and he doesn't seem willing or able to loosen it up. It's a real shame. 

A couple of weeks ago, I texted him a meme or something funny, he replied in 5 mins. I then follow up with "hey what are you doing this weekend?" and got nothing. 

[hookemATL 11742]

4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I heard somewhere that one is the loneliest number

You should spend some time in Shambala. Great place. Everyone is helpful. Everyone is kind. 

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

You should spend some time in Shambala. Great place. Everyone is helpful. Everyone is kind. 

I would but Mama Told Me Not to Come

[Pancho 44856]

8 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Very old Harvard study started 60-70  years ago followed hundreds of males throughout their lives.  As the men aged in to their 70's+, the one common theme among those that lived the fullest, happiest lives, was the existence of male/male (no gay) relationships.  In other words, guys need their guy time.  Whatever it is, poker night, beers, ball games, running, hunting club (which is really drinking and poker at my place), etc..

This is getting into my major and what I teach at the college level.

That study being 60-70 years is out of date but still hits on the main argument today--it's not that guys need guy time rather people need social interaction and social bonds. We call this the Need to Belong Theory. We are all born with this drive to seek, form, and maintain strong relationships regardless of who that person is, what sex they are, or where we form them (work, school, church, neighborhood, Surly, tailgates, etc.) The reason we seek these relationships is because it makes us feel like we aren't alone because we belong to a social community.  

Getting a little further in, the theory argues that these relationships need to be interactive and emotionally close. If we feel they aren't interactive and emotionally close, they have an impact on our physical and psychological well being. 

 

[Kennythetiger 9389]

26 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Damn, does everyone try to pick up you and your wife?

They’re not after him. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

This thread hits very close to home for me

[Sawbonz 27566]

Rediscovering old truths

 

No man is an island

Entire of itself;

Every man is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main;

 

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less,

As well as if a promontory were,

As well as any manor of thy friend’s 

Or of thine own were;

 

Any man's death diminishes me,

Because I am involved in mankind.

And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;

It tolls for thee.

[Horn Dog 9875]

9 hours ago, Js1 said:

That is interesting.  As a gay man, I have close male friends across the spectrum - straight married men I have known since we were 13/14, gay married men I have known since college, and committed and single gay men I have known in the last 8-10 years. 

With the straight married men, we game together, play fantasy football, do some traveling, meet up for lunch with their young kids, play tennis, etc. Pretty regularly. 

I apologize in advance for this reply …

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Horn Dog

[Dbeasy 15067]

This thread struck a nerve. I left Dallas a few years ago and moved back to Austin for early “retirement”. 

I left behind regular golf partners, a Texas Hold’em poker group, Texas sports friends, and other friends.

When I got back to Austin, I’d lost the relationships with a lot of the guys I’d grown up with.

There are still a few I’m close to, but they all work, and strangely they don’t play golf much and no one plays poker. I also live out on the edge of town in an area where the bars and coffee shops aren’t a great fit. To top it all off I moved back here during Covid so meeting new people was tough. And church is not for me.