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America's Loneliness Epidemic

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G650

G650 14263

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17 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Another thing is to consider is that loneliness may be partly about options.

When you feel like you're alone, you don't have any friends, you don't have a spouse/partner, you don't have the skills to meet new people, you don't know how to form new friendships, you don't know how to interact socially...you feel alone. And trapped. And depressed. 

When you know that you have friends, either close or acquaintances, that you can call for a beer; when you've generally had sex picking up men/women when you want to try or have had a lot of long term relationships and are confident you could find another one; when you know you CAN go to a socail event and strike up and carry a conversation with anyone...then you have options. You feel like you can change your circumstances. Which means coming home, drawing the curtains, and reading a book or cocktail simply becomes your choice or preference. And man, that is not the same thing, the same ballpark, as feeling like you're just stuck at home alone, forever. And that is the biggest part where I think the phone is dangerous. Because lots of folks never learn those skills, so their default is to feel completely isolated.

Oh for sure.

 

And tagging on my earlier post about being introverted, I think people misconstrue introversion with social awkwardness, which is not remotely the same, though they can exist concurrently.  I can fall in with just about anyone and I'm generally a pretty agreeable sort. The difference is it's a net energy expenditure for me, where extroverts get energy from social interaction.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head though.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48109

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Just now, G650 said:

Oh for sure.

 

And tagging on my earlier post about being introverted, I think people misconstrue introversion with social awkwardness, which is not remotely the same, though they can exist concurrently.  I can fall in with just about anyone and I'm generally a pretty agreeable sort. The difference is it's a net energy expenditure for me, where extroverts get energy from social interaction.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head though.

I also agree with your assesment of introverts. I can be an outgoing motherfucker. I can carry the conversation, I can carry multple people through conversations. I can ask questions, I can make a crowd all feel invovled, and at this point I can do it relatively effortlessly. Hell, public speaking doesn't even bother me all that much. 

But man oh man, would I rather just sit at home with my wife watching television. 

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5092

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4 hours ago, axiom of foundation said:

Anecdotal from my experiences and don’t have any data to support it, but when I was young many of our family friends and networks were made through and around the kids.  Parents would meet at ball games, PTA meetings, etc and would become friends.  Then we’d get together on weekends, go camping, back yard BBQs, and so on. 
 

With my peers, one of the top reasons given for why people can’t get together is activities and commitments associated with their kids.  I’ve heard friends say that they don’t have time for their peers anymore after having kids. 

When I was a kid, there were no "travel teams" in my area. Pee Wee football and Lil' Dribblers was it. One or two games for about a 6-8 week period, and that was it. You made friends with teammates from kids in other areas of town that you maybe didn't go to school or church with. But you had all the time in the world to go camping, bike riding, fishing, and other things kids are supposed to do.

The reason people can't do anything social anymore, is because every parent's kid is special, and needs to be on a competitive travel team instead of a rec team. CHIEF Jr. was on one for exactly one summer, and we told him it was only rec teams after that. Four games throughout the week, and tournaments all day on Saturday and Sunday is just too much. Kids are over scheduled, and the only socializing the parents have time for is talking with the other parents the other 30 hours of the week they are at the ballpark or court. I know people that have two or three kids of different ages, all on travel teams, many struggle with the financial obligations (ask grandparents to help), and if they are not at home, they are at one of the kid's sporting event. The financial part of it caused my BIL's divorce. You can't have a conversation with them, because it all evolves around their kid's sports, because that is all they have to talk about.

CHIEF

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G650

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1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

I also agree with your assesment of introverts. I can be an outgoing motherfucker. I can carry the conversation, I can carry multple people through conversations. I can ask questions, I can make a crowd all feel invovled, and at this point I can do it relatively effortlessly. Hell, public speaking doesn't even bother me all that much. 

But man oh man, would I rather just sit at home with my wife watching television. 

Praise The Lord Applause GIF

 

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105154

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

When I was a kid, there were no "travel teams" in my area. Pee Wee football and Lil' Dribblers was it. One or two games for about a 6-8 week period, and that was it. You made friends with teammates from kids in other areas of town that you maybe didn't go to school or church with. But you had all the time in the world to go camping, bike riding, fishing, and other things kids are supposed to do.

The reason people can't do anything social anymore, is because every parent's kid is special, and needs to be on a competitive travel team instead of a rec team. CHIEF Jr. was on one for exactly one summer, and we told him it was only rec teams after that. Four games throughout the week, and tournaments all day on Saturday and Sunday is just too much. Kids are over scheduled, and the only socializing the parents have time for is talking with the other parents the other 30 hours of the week they are at the ballpark or court. I know people that have two or three kids of different ages, all on travel teams, many struggle with the financial obligations (ask grandparents to help), and if they are not at home, they are at one of the kid's sporting event. The financial part of it caused my BIL's divorce. You can't have a conversation with them, because it all evolves around their kid's sports, because that is all they have to talk about.

CHIEF

Yep.  Travel/elite sports sucks.  We didn't have that experience with either of our kids, but are having some of it with our current kinda foster kid (who's next-level good at soccer).  It can suck up a huge amount of time and money.*

* BUT...maybe here's the wholesome and encouraging part.  The foster kiddo is on scholarship with his club, so he (meaning we) doesn't have to pay for his regular stuff -- fees, uniform, etc.  They have travel tournaments.  When they are tournaments that require flying, we buy his ticket.  When they require driving, without fail one of the other families finds a place for him in their car.  And as for hotels, we've never had to pay for a night, because one of the other families ALSO always finds extra space for him in their room.  We send him with money for food and spending money, but his teammates' families are kind and generous, and a kid who came from literally nothing is able to participate with everyone else.  It's a good thing, and really encouraging to see. 

An interesting story on the travel team stuff: older friend of mine had kids the same age as Drew Brees.  They were on multiple youth sports teams together and it didn't matter what it is -- coulda been Albanian blindfolded Badminton -- Drew was always the best athlete on the field.  Drew actually wanted to play summer travel league baseball when he was a kid.  Coaches REALLY wanted him to play.  His parents said "nope," at least not until he got to high school age.  Because summers were family time, for vacation, time at the beach, etc.  That really struck me as a really good priority decision they made.  And obviously, it didn't hold the future Super Bowl MVP back.

Edited by Brisketexan
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Kennythetiger

Kennythetiger 9389

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5 hours ago, CHIEF said:

I don't ever feel lonely, as I live in a community with a lot of work from home folks, and retirees. All I have to do is go to the clubhouse and there are multiple groups of people to talk to. The problem I have, is no one knows how to carry on a conversation anymore. No one is listening to one another, they are just thinking about the next thing they are going to say, interrupting each other, and then going down a boring rabbit hole. There is also a lot of "one upmanship." Gone are the days of the good storyteller, someone will interrupt and they never get to finish the story.

At least, on Surly, you can lay out a whole conversation, or idea, and have it agreed with, or criticized. It sucks, but it is the reality I have come to realize.

CHIEF

A friend of mine calls this “listening to respond” instead of “listening to listen”. It’s a very, very bad habit of mine. Being trained in law, I listen to respond for 10-12 hours a day, and it’s very hard to keep that training isolated at my job and not bring it home with me. 

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Samson's Wig

Samson's Wig 3192

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On 9/19/2023 at 11:16 AM, Brisketexan said:

Because "the cross" has been coopted as a political symbol by a movement that is so far removed from the Gospels (cough cough, Matthew 25) that they are utterly disgusted.

 

I always make a point to keep ten oily virgins at the ready, personally.  I haven't got over burying my money in the backyard, though.  One step at a time.

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CHIEF

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7 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Why does Gen X seem to be forgotten so often?  I know we're a small generation, relatively speaking, but wtf?

Because we don't bitch much, don't give a shit about polls, and are keeping our nose to the grindstone during our best earning years.

CHIEF-Gen X

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MissingInAction

MissingInAction 25106

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Because we don't bitch much, don't give a shit about polls, and are keeping our nose to the grindstone during our best earning years.

CHIEF-Gen X

Truth. Which is why many if us single Gen X men are out kicking our coverage. Gen z and millennial women have told me straight up they can't find men their age with any stability to their lives.

A couple of my friends have kids in their mid 20s post college still living at home with no prospects.

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mchookem

mchookem 16336

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16 hours ago, elfenix said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

Why does Gen X seem to be forgotten so often?  I know we're a small generation, relatively speaking, but wtf?

 

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

Because we don't bitch much, don't give a shit about polls, and are keeping our nose to the grindstone during our best earning years.

CHIEF-Gen X

dc73d828b83f5279cd8b8dd67df9f9d7fa5a2e07.gif.ca8982fae70c2d85d2f7eecebc92f7bd.gif

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ABSR

ABSR 5315

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5 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:


We are the middle child of the generations that are running things right now.

Because someone has to actually do and accomplish things instead of just complaining and talking about what we “deserve” without doing anything to earn it.

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Js1

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46 minutes ago, ABSR said:

Because someone has to actually do and accomplish things instead of just complaining and talking about what we “deserve” without doing anything to earn it.

Y’all never stop complaining about being ignored and left out!

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CHIEF

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Y’all never stop complaining about being ignored and left out!

It’s not complaining, I couldn’t give a single shit. I take it as a badge of honor. My grandparents were the Greatest Generation. We are the “Just Keep Your Trap Shut” generation. Social media became a thing after we were grown, and out of college. We are too busy raising families with kids in college to give a fuck. 
 

CHIEF

Edited by CHIEF
College expenses
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31495

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2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Not this one. I was shamed off my soccer team at age 12 for sucking. So I played football so I could knock the shit out of anyone who made fun of me.

Waterboy GIF

I have like two trophies.  Because I was on exactly two teams that ever won anything.

We had cuts in all high school sports.

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CHIEF

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30 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Wasn't Gen X the first everyone gets a trophy generation?

I was born in 1968. My Little League team was just like The Bad News Bears without the winning. We all sucked except Mario Rodriguez. That kid could ball. He never dissed the rest of us six year olds and had every right to. Was one of my true first best friends. 
 

CHIEF

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Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Wasn't Gen X the first everyone gets a trophy generation?

No.  We kept score and if you didn't win, you didn't get jack shit.  That's the way it should be, and not just in sports.

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Kennythetiger

Kennythetiger 9389

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8 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Not this one. I was shamed off my soccer team at age 12 for sucking. So I played football so I could knock the shit out of anyone who made fun of me.

Waterboy GIF

My high school basketball coach called me into his office after practice one evening. He asked me to quit the team so that it would open up a spot on the bench for an underclassman. I was fucking terrible, but after that request I stuck my ass there. 

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BearSchlong

BearSchlong 8098

Posted
Posted
I was listening to this Huberman Labs podcast the other day and his guest was talking about how to be happy.
His formula was really simple: Agency + Gratitude = Happiness.
As I was listening, I sort of struggled with the idea of agency, but as I read more about it, I think it perfectly describes my experience with/without my iPhone. This notion that we ultimately have control over our decisions and our actions, and that being intentional about those things allows us to create the life we want.
My phone made it easy for me to live with very little intentionality. But that left me feeling really empty. I've heard others here describe reasons for feeling lonely, sad, etc. But I think ultimately we have the agency to affect change and ultimately create the life we want. 

And today is World Gratitude Day.


2292ccbec0e34d076b4ef339f66195e6.jpg
I was listening to this Huberman Labs podcast the other day and his guest was talking about how to be happy.
His formula was really simple: Agency + Gratitude = Happiness.
As I was listening, I sort of struggled with the idea of agency, but as I read more about it, I think it perfectly describes my experience with/without my iPhone. This notion that we ultimately have control over our decisions and our actions, and that being intentional about those things allows us to create the life we want.
My phone made it easy for me to live with very little intentionality. But that left me feeling really empty. I've heard others here describe reasons for feeling lonely, sad, etc. But I think ultimately we have the agency to affect change and ultimately create the life we want. 

And today is World Gratitude Day.


2292ccbec0e34d076b4ef339f66195e6.jpg
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105154

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4 hours ago, G650 said:

Not in my experience, and I was born late 70s. I started seeing it with my little brother's generation.

Yep.  We got a little "trophy" for our very first soccer season....in which we sucked, and lost a lot of games.  At the end of year pizza party, we got trophies, and even though we were just 6, we were confused, because we knew we sucked.  After that, we only got a trophy/ribbon when we won stuff.

But who cares, our generation doesn't matter.  Whatever, nevermind.

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G650

G650 14263

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Not a subscriber -- can you steal/copy-paste?

Quote

Loneliness crushes the soul, but researchers are finding it does far more damage than that. It is linked to strokes, heart disease, dementia, inflammation and suicide; it breaks the heart literally as well as figuratively.

Loneliness is as deadly as smoking 15 cigarettes a day and more lethal than consuming six alcoholic drinks a day, according to the surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Loneliness is more dangerous for health than obesity, he says — and, alas, we have been growing more lonely. A majority of Americans now report experiencing loneliness, based on a widely used scale that asks questions such as whether people lack companionship or feel left out.

Yet there are solutions as well, approaches that build connections and bind us together. Britain is the pioneer of these efforts, having established the post of minister for loneliness in 2018. Britain oversees public-private partnerships that collectively knit millions of people together with programs like nature walks, songwriting workshops and community litter pickups.

A minister for loneliness is a less obvious need than a defense minister or a foreign minister. But other countries are paying attention: Japan has also appointed a minister for loneliness, Sweden has a minister for social affairs who has tackled the issue aggressively, and there have been calls in Australia and other countries for such a post.

 
 

That’s because if the researchers are correct, social isolation probably kills far more people in the West each year than terrorists and murderers, and it costs the public enormous sums in unnecessary health costs. Countermeasures can make a huge difference: One review of 148 studies concluded that social connections increase the odds of an individual’s surviving over roughly the next seven years by about 50 percent.

This article is the fourth in an occasional series about how to fix the problems that have left so many people behind in America. The genesis for the series is the troubles I’ve witnessed: As I’ve written, more than one-quarter of the children who rode the No. 6 school bus with me in Yamhill, Ore., have died from drugs, alcohol, suicide and other so-called deaths of despair.

These pathologies are linked to social isolation. I’ve seen how old friends self-medicated with meth or alcohol in part because they were disconnected from the community, and then addiction and criminal records left them even more stigmatized and isolated.

The Great Depression was economically devastating, and yet mortality then didn’t rise but actually fell. Why didn’t we have more deaths of despair in the 1930s? I think in part because in the 1930s there were community institutions — churches, men’s clubs, women’s associations, bridge clubs, bowling leagues, extended families — that buffered the pain and humiliation of unemployment and economic distress, and in some cases these groups actually stepped up and became more active during times of distress.

   
 

Those community institutions have frayed. Now we’re on our own, and perhaps that’s why so many are also dying alone.

 
 
 
 

It’s not easy to rebuild networks. I’ve seen how drug addiction destroys trust and social capital, making it even more difficult to knit people together and help those who are most vulnerable. But we can do better in addressing the challenges around us, and this series is an attempt to show how.

Social isolation is the rare malady whose cure is fully known and costs relatively little, yet is still so difficult to achieve. In the 21st century, we are a social species living atomized lives; even when living in a high-rise apartment building in a densely inhabited city, surrounded by people in every direction, we can easily feel bereft and melancholy.

Stuart Andrew, the British minister for loneliness, told me that one of the challenges of loneliness is the stigma that surrounds it. We’re embarrassed that we’re lonely and slow to seek help — so he has been sharing stories of his own lonely childhood.

 

“I realized that I was gay in my teens,” he said. “I felt isolated because of where I lived, in rural, rural Wales. And I didn’t know anybody else who’s gay. So that was a bit of a struggle trying to come to terms with that.”

 
 

The steps to tackle loneliness aren’t grand, high-tech or expensive. In fact, one of the strategies is simply to get people back into old-fashioned patterns like eating meals together, holding parties and volunteering to help one another out.

 

How America Heals

A series in which Nicholas Kristof is examining the interwoven crises
devastating parts of America and exploring paths to recovery.

 
 
 

The British ministry has parceled out some $100 million to address loneliness since 2018, often to support local initiatives. In the working-class neighborhood of Acton in London, I dropped in on a neighborhood center that was hosting a weekly family-style luncheon for women and children in the area, many of them immigrants who struggle with English. It’s a chance for them to get out of the house and make friends.

“We’re all about community building,” said Sophie Tebbetts of FoodCycle, a nonprofit that runs the lunches and has recruited 5,000 volunteers to help with this and other programs.

“You come to mix with people of different generations,” said Nigel Rock, 71, a retiree who was helping prepare the food for the Acton lunch. “You do the work, you chat and you have a good time.” This was his first day volunteering there, but he said he expected to continue to come each week.

 
 

Traditionally, this role of community building was often filled in America or Europe by a local church or other faith institution, but the decline of religious attendance has left a gap. Because church buildings often have unused space, secular community events are now held in them; they still provide the physical architecture for connections, even if the faith architecture has eroded.

For King Charles’s coronation in May, Britain organized a day of “The Big Help-Out” to encourage people to come together and volunteer, and an astonishing six million people did so. The response was so impressive that this may become an annual event.

 
 

Britain’s anti-loneliness efforts revved up in June, with Loneliness Awareness Week and “Great Get-Together” events across the country to coincide with the birthday of a British member of Parliament and friend of mine, Jo Cox, who helped lead efforts to address loneliness before she was murdered in 2016. Programs ranged from poetry workshops to book discussions and litter pickups, followed by a free drink at the pub.

In Brighton, more than 100 people nibbled on sandwiches and joined a singalong organized by two local charities. “Once you get humans in the room, talking together, the magic happens,” said April Baker of Together Co, one of the nonprofit organizers.

 
 

The other organizer was the Glamour Club, founded five years ago to bring people together.

“We’re on a mission to establish a Glamour Club in every village, town and city in the U.K.,” said Janice Moth, its founder. The club, which started in the English town of Worthing, holds meetings that people attend in their most glamorous clothing.

“We’re not meant to be lonely as a species,” said Paul Dolan, a professor of behavioral sciences at the London School of Economics who attended the Brighton event. “If you were to think of the most significant interventions to improve life expectancy, after quitting smoking, it’s: Don’t be lonely.”

One of the paradoxes of humanity is that while we (along with other primates) evolved to be social creatures, wealth drives us toward solitude. When we have the resources, we stop sleeping eight to a hut and build a big house with high walls, and each family member has a private bedroom and bathroom — and then to afford the mortgage we work so hard that we never manage to have meals together.

Early on, some thought that Facebook and other social media would bind us together, but many experts now think these platforms have instead made us more lonely. People look at Instagram feeds and conclude that everyone else is having fun. Meanwhile, time with screens substitutes for time with human beings. All this may help account for the crisis in mental health of young people over the last dozen years. We often think that older people are most lonely, but polls find that young adults are twice as likely as seniors to report loneliness.

As a dog lover, I think of pets as providing a natural solution to loneliness, but the evidence of that isn’t clear. Likewise, there’s talk that robots or artificial intelligence bots may engage us and lure us out of social isolation, but that’s also uncertain. It seems that there’s something to be said for friends who are living, breathing human beings.

 
 

One milestone in addressing America’s loneliness challenge came this spring with an 81-page report by the surgeon general, Dr. Murthy, “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.” In 1964, the surgeon general at the time issued a landmark warning about the dangers of cigarette smoking, helping lay the groundwork for a long decline in tobacco use that by one estimate saved eight million lives. I suspect that this report on loneliness will also be remembered as one of historic significance.

“Loneliness is far more than just a bad feeling,” Murthy wrote. He compared it to tobacco, obesity and addiction. Unless we take serious steps to address it, he warned, “we will further retreat to our corners — angry, sick and alone.”

 
 
 

Murthy offers a strategy to address loneliness that begins with building up the infrastructure that enables social connection. That includes physical infrastructure, such as parks and libraries, and also social infrastructure to weave together volunteers or enthusiasts with similar interests. Once again, Britain provides a model.

The English town of Frome, which has fewer than 30,000 people, has trained more than 1,100 volunteers to be “community connectors.” They engage people and encourage them to join events or participate in programs.

 
 

As for physical infrastructure to address loneliness, one example is the “chatty bench,” adopted in the United Kingdom, Sweden and Australia. This is a park bench with a sign encouraging strangers sitting there to chat with each other; in a Northern Ireland town, the sign says: “Sit here if you are happy to chat with passers-by.”

There are also “talking cafes,” where people are encouraged to gab with other coffee drinkers. There are “libraries of things,” where you can mingle with neighbors to borrow camping equipment or a carpet cleaner or lend out your own gear.

Solutions to loneliness are like that — little nudges to encourage us to mingle the way we evolved to. They’re so easy, and loneliness seems so debilitating, that we should be doing more.

So, President Biden, how about creating a senior government post analogous to a minister for loneliness? And mayors and governors, how about some chatty benches in American parks, along with volunteers deputized to bring us out for nature walks and singalongs?

We Americans, atomized and polarized, addicted and distressed, are a lonely crowd. Overwhelming evidence suggests that for the sake of our happiness and well-being, we need one another.

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105154

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19 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Thanks for sharing.  Some snippets that just jumped out at me:

Quote

In the 21st century, we are a social species living atomized lives

Traditionally, this role of community building was often filled in America or Europe by a local church or other faith institution, but the decline of religious attendance has left a gap. Because church buildings often have unused space, secular community events are now held in them; they still provide the physical architecture for connections, even if the faith architecture has eroded.

“We’re not meant to be lonely as a species,” said Paul Dolan, a professor of behavioral sciences at the London School of Economics who attended the Brighton event. “If you were to think of the most significant interventions to improve life expectancy, after quitting smoking, it’s: Don’t be lonely.”

One of the paradoxes of humanity is that while we (along with other primates) evolved to be social creatures, wealth drives us toward solitude. When we have the resources, we stop sleeping eight to a hut and build a big house with high walls, and each family member has a private bedroom and bathroom — and then to afford the mortgage we work so hard that we never manage to have meals together.

We Americans, atomized and polarized, addicted and distressed, are a lonely crowd. Overwhelming evidence suggests that for the sake of our happiness and well-being, we need one another.

Bolded the last part for heart-breaking emphasis.  We.  Fucking.  Need.  Each other.  It is the core truth, the essence of our being.  

There's some interesting thoughts in there, too -- especially the one that wealth drives us toward solitude.  Big, separate houses.  All-consuming work to get there.  And hell, the strong social trend to champion "work from home" one of the big reasons I don't like it is because it makes us even further isolated, and is bad for us as a society and species.  I remember getting together with our local court administrator for a drink after the worst of COVID, when we were just starting to go back to in-person court proceedings.  One of the first things he said about the process, with a bit of a choked up voice, was "man....I miss seeing my friends."  And by "friends," he meant all of us in the legal community who would stop by his office and shoot the shit, ask for a favor, run a problem by him, what have you.  We'd bullshit, tell hunting stories, or share woman troubles, or whatnot.  He IS my friend.  And there are lots of others like me.  

I suspect that loneliness is not as big a problem in rural and poor Bangladesh as it is here in prosperous Austin.  As we get richer, we get poorer.  The things I most treasure, and even look back on with fondness, are things that were available to me when I/we didn't have much.  Backyard barbecues, riding bikes with friends, tailgating with a diverse group, church get-togethers, etc.  Now that I have much more money....I have less time, and less social wealth.  It's bassackwards.

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