America's Loneliness Epidemic

[Gil Bang 26099]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:29 AM, closetohumping said:

There was a Rolling Stones article about how white males in the mountain west states were more likely to commit suicide. 

I'm trying to figure out whether this article would have been written by Mick, or Keith.  Doesn't sound like something Woody would write. 

[UpperWestside 6216]

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/suicide-rate-america-white-men-841576/amp/
 

 

[Brisketexan 105572]

This para is the summary of that story, and the crappy place where we are these days:

“There’s been an increase in the ‘every-man-for-himself mentality,’ ” says Dr. Craig Bryan, who studies military and rural suicide at the University of Utah. “There doesn’t seem to be as strong a sense of ‘We’re all in this together.’ It’s much more ‘Hey, don’t infringe upon me. You’re on your own, and let me do my own thing.’ ”

[UpperWestside 6216]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This para is the summary of that story, and the crappy place where we are these days:

“There’s been an increase in the ‘every-man-for-himself mentality,’ ” says Dr. Craig Bryan, who studies military and rural suicide at the University of Utah. “There doesn’t seem to be as strong a sense of ‘We’re all in this together.’ It’s much more ‘Hey, don’t infringe upon me. You’re on your own, and let me do my own thing.’ ”

This was the part that stuck out to me the most as well. It is accurate and it is a reason I have advocated a position that every single member of our society should have access to a mental health professional at least twice a month. That does not mean you are getting a 1000 dollar an hour therapist, but you should be able to see someone. Even if you cannot pay we should be working together as a society to ensure that something like this is not only possible, but that we see it happen. 

[Kennythetiger 9497]

11 hours ago, axiom of foundation said:

I'm guessing you weren't a fan of Cheers?

My dad loved Cheers, so by association we kids liked it too. As an adolescent boy, I thought Miss Howe was where it was at. However, as a man with a little experience, I now realize that Lilith’s prowess was probably underestimated. 

[Chopper 17355]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:29 AM, closetohumping said:

There was a Rolling Stones article about how white males in the mountain west states were more likely to commit suicide. 

 

Slight adjustment but mountain west makes me think Colorado but in fact it's certain states, all but one in the mountain time zone, and it doesn't include Colorado.

Quote

Men in the United States average 22 suicides per 100,000 people, with those ages 45 to 64 representing the fastest-growing group, up from 20.8 per 100,000 in 1999 to 30.1 in 2017. The states with the highest rates are Montana, with 28.9 per 100,000 people; Alaska, at 27 per 100,000; and Wyoming, at 26.9 per 100,000 — all roughly double the national rate. New Mexico, Idaho and Utah round out the top six states. All but Alaska fall in the Mountain time zone.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Chopper

[UpperWestside 6216]

It’s raining pretty steadily today so I decided to stay indoors and go to The Met to read and look at a few exhibits. I sit down to read and an older woman asks if her and her husband can sit down at the table. I told her of course and went back to reading. She is attempting to share some stories with her husband about the museum and he has zero interest as he is preoccupied looking at his phone. I felt bad for her so I asked her where they were from (Kansas) and they said this was their 5th or 6th time here in NYC.
 

I made some small talk about having played some college football games in Kansas long ago (Very small school) and proceeded to help them find the exhibit they wanted to see.  I showed the husband how to download the museum app and they were on their way. I told her that her son and grandchildren would be okay when they come to visit for the Macy’s Thanksgiving parade. She was worried about the size of the crowd, but her son is determined to come because it was her dad’s dream to see the parade in person. Her son seems to be going full Clark Griswold on this, but good for him for giving his family the experience his grandfather never had.
 

The main point here is that you can help someone’s day by just noticing what is going on around you. She made my day better by sharing part of her life that really matters to her. She said something to her husband as well while they were sitting down that was awesome and will stick with me. He says “What would you like to see?” She responds “I don’t care. I am just happy to see it with you.” That was just so cool to hear. How much better would our world be if folks genuinely felt that way about more people in their lives?

[NWBuck 8590]

I thought this was interesting... SIAP

The male loneliness epidemic and how it affects fathers

Quote

In the United States, many men have become disconnected from the societal institutions that have anchored dads to each other and our community. Historically, men have made long-term bonds through religious institutions and friendships at work. Our sense of worth derived from what we could provide our families.

Quote

Too often, fathers are portrayed as unnecessary idiots that complicate parenting rather than adding to the family. In movies, TV shows and novels, the father must often be restrained by the mother. Instead of encouraging involved parenting by men, popular culture tends to ridicule it. That messaging has to affect how fathers and others feel about their parenting.

 

[Brisketexan 105572]

10 hours ago, NWBuck said:

I thought this was interesting... SIAP

The male loneliness epidemic and how it affects fathers

 

Yeah.....there's some "yes and no" to that.

My dad's generation never touched a diaper.  They never cooked a meal, unless it was a weekend and they manned the grill.  Today's generation of dads....even the pretty piss-poor dads have changed a diaper, have made a dinner (maybe boxed mac and cheese and hamburger meat, but they still made dinner).

The "blame it on pop culture, because they show dads as doofuses" trope is bullshit in my eyes.  For every goofy dad who doesn't have a clue on some TV show, there are 10 more portrayals where dad is normal, coaches the soccer team, is protective of his family, what have you.

But as to the first point...yes, I think there's something to it.  Not necessarily the single-thought conclusion of "our worth is in what we can provide to our families," but that we learn as dads and get support from a network of other men in institutions, and those institutions are collapsing.  That said...I (and I would think most men on this board) are of a generation and ethos where a great deal of our self-worth and identity comes from "what we can provide to our families."  Most of my peers share my (perhaps unhealthy) approach to life of "my needs come last, the needs of every other member of my family come ahead of mine."  If things are dire, we give our coat to the family for warmth, we skip the meal so they can eat, etc.  Because that's what we're supposed to do.  That's what a man does.  Not saying it's wrong, but it does carry with it the baggage of "I ALWAYS put myself last, and don't tend enough to my own well-being, especially my mental well-being."

I actually found this bit pretty interesting:

Quote

What’s more, men in today’s society may view deep relationships as not masculine, thus further isolating themselves.

I think that's an issue.  In something of a reflexive response to the "softening" of the male image (visualize the "Obamacare pajama boy ad" that we all made fun of), there's a social counter-push back to hyper-masculinity.  Don't be a pussy, be an alpha!  Andrew Tate bullshit, that kind of crap.  That impulse defines male friendships not as one of actual meaningful friendship and support, but more as "fellow warriors, standing beside you as you slay dragons and conquer pussy."  And while standing up to bad shit and chasing girls both have their place in life, to define that as manhood to the exclusion of everything else is toxic as shit.  As you get older, you realize that just from the kicks to the nuts that reality would deliver.  One of my oldest and best friends is a crotchety, conservative Texan of German stock.  He's not a softie by any means.  But a few years ago, as we were parting after some drinks, he hugged me and told me he loved me.  He then explained "I'm telling all my friends that I love them nowadays, because I do, and because we need to hear it."  He ain't wrong.

Shit, maybe all of this comes back to balance.  You can be a man....and change a diaper.  You can have genuine and loving relationships with your male friends....and that doesn't make you less of a man.  You can love hot ass....and still treat women with dignity and respect.  None of these are incompatible with their counterpart.  Men need friends, men need to be good dads.  Those things are at their best when they are balanced.

[CHIEF 5097]

I have about a half dozen friends that I have hugged and told them "I love them" for decades. I was always lucky in that my parents and extended family always hugged, and told each other "I love you." Mrs. CHIEF's family were stodgy old Germans, they even shook hands with their own children, parents, and siblings. I was the one that came in and upset the apple cart. Before she passed, my MIL would get upset if I didn't tell her I loved her, and gave her a hug. I don't know, maybe this is the reason I never feel lonely, I have people that I love, and I know they love me back even when I'm not with them.

CHIEF

Edited September 26, 2023 by CHIEF
too many commas

[G650 14301]

58 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Mrs. CHIEF's family were stodgy old Germans, they even shook hands with their own children, parents, and siblings

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The "blame it on pop culture, because they show dads as doofuses" trope is bullshit in my eyes.  For every goofy dad who doesn't have a clue on some TV show, there are 10 more portrayals where dad is normal, coaches the soccer team, is protective of his family, what have you.

i challenge you to pay attention to this more.  it's particularly easy to see in commercials. find a 30 second spot with a husband and a wife:  who has the good head on shoulders and who is getting in the way?  your 10-1 ratio will get flipped on its head.

[Brisketexan 105572]

2 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

i challenge you to pay attention to this more.  it's particularly easy to see in commercials. find a 30 second spot with a husband and a wife:  who has the good head on shoulders and who is getting in the way?  your 10-1 ratio will get flipped on its head.

I dunno.  I don't watch that many commercials.  When it comes to live TV, I mostly watch sports, so according to those viewing habits, the #1 issue in the US is having a bent dick.

[After irth 1245]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, mchookem said:

17 years. and there's a racial difference, so the two combined often make us really seem like a mismatch 🤨 we have a lot of minor/mundane differences... the type of music we like, movies/tv shows, foods, daily routines. at our current ages there's definitely a difference in energy levels, but that's probably also related to daily routine... he's early to bed/early to rise and takes daily naps, i'm a night owl who sleeps later and runs around during the afternoons.

re: mindset, he's just what i would call 'old school' in many ways. he tells stories about growing up and his father that legit sound like child abuse lol...but he just says 'that's what's wrong with kids today'. he cannot relate at all to things like our niece's eating disorder (not saying i can but i'm a lot closer to empathizing with a 21 yoa anorexic white girl in college than he is 😄) or mental/emotional problems in general. he thinks i overthink things (he's not wrong haha). he worked in HR and had a lot of 'opinions' about millennials' issues in the workforce 😝 

he has mellowed some with age, but also some of the differences have become more pronounced. and of course this is just my perspective... honestly, he doesn't really think about any of these things, he just wants me to be happy...e.g., our move to CO which was 100% just bc of me, he would have stayed in Austin forever. anyways, im pretty lucky in that regard 😊❤️

Thanks for the response.  Was just curious.  We have a 14.5 year difference between us and have been together 12 years.  She's (38) an introverted and nerdy old fart, and I'm (52) an extroverted big kid, so people don't really see the age difference.  

I'm always interested in how other couples with age differences live and manage their lives.  Most of the ones we've encountered seem to be happier, presumably because they probably went into their relationship with some discussion about it, maybe some ground rules, and with eyes kept wide open.  

You keep on being you...!

[InkaUtexas 26353]

Just married. 12 years difference. She makes a major difference in my life. I am 50. 

Has no issues if I need bro time, go to a bar to watch football or baseball. She has her hobbies, I have mine. Puts up with my friends coming over and understands being alone when needed. I am the extrovert. She is the opposite. 

We did talk quite a bit about it. I work remote. She does not. I told her, hey, if I can have my hobbies I will follow you anywhere the State of Texas assigns you. State parks so that is a perk.  I work in solitude and need that time out with humans. When we move it will be a major change for me. Not sure how that is going to work out when we are remote. Guess I can brew beer. 

Age don't mean shit if you are good with each other.

 

 

[After irth 1245]

16 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Just married. 12 years difference. She makes a major difference in my life. I am 50. 

Has no issues if I need bro time, go to a bar to watch football or baseball. She has her hobbies, I have mine. Puts up with my friends coming over and understands being alone when needed. I am the extrovert. She is the opposite. 

We did talk quite a bit about it. I work remote. She does not. I told her, hey, if I can have my hobbies I will follow you anywhere the State of Texas assigns you. State parks so that is a perk.  I work in solitude and need that time out with humans. When we move it will be a major change for me. Not sure how that is going to work out when we are remote. Guess I can brew beer. 

Age don't mean shit if you are good with each other.

 

 

Congratulations on tying that knot, my friend!  And yeah...compatibility means everything regardless of age.  Plus, a willingness to act as a team.  

I follow my wife around as well and actively support her career.  After a lifetime in South & Central Texas, we did 3 years in Fort Myers, FL before coming back to Texas.  Been in Lufkin since 2018.  I can be happy anywhere, but the people here constantly deflate my expectations, and making decent friends has been hard.  Most of the people we associate with are not from here, which speaks volumes. 

She is kicking ass and is gradually traveling more and more.  Gotta be closer to an airport eventually, so we're looking at completely flipping the switch and going full-blown urban in downtown Dallas soon-ish.  Talk about major changes, but she's worth it. 

We do everything as a team with complete transparency.  Our biggest challenge is trying to figure out how our retirement will work (mostly because of the age difference).  If that's our biggest problem, I guess we're blessed.

Just wish we had a few decent friends and/or support system around here.