NFLPA Calls for Natural Grass in all NFL Stadiums

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

MLS uses artificial turf,

MLS is a joke of a soccer league 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

52 minutes ago, lilMAC25 said:

The 2021 study showed something like 0.01 increase per 100 plays in chance of injury for FT vs grass.

The next year “rocketed” up to 0.013 greater chance of injury over 100 plays.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nflpa-says-new-data-shows-turf-fields-still-cause-more-injuries-than-natural-surfaces-171352790.html

Thats a small number.

 

 

Any increase is significant. 

[tx 3 putt 77201]

3 hours ago, cmontexas said:

How much time did Aaron Rodgers spend in the weight room this off-season?

did he even stretch pre game ?

all this because an old douche got hurt

[pops 7005]

Plastic grass sucks. It's certainly gotten better but it just can nene react the way real turf does. That being said there are some shit turf managers out there that continually put out a shitty product. Hire someone better. Alabama,  the chiefs,  green bay,  the raiders and many othets...all have great superintendents that get it and put out a great product 

Arizona usually has really good turf. The NFL fucked up the superbowl with their people. They Overseedeed and overseeded and overseeded with rye to get a nice bright green field and it produced a slick shitty product with no root depth. But I'd still take it over so-fi where obj blows his knee on a non contact play. And that's really the key. Soft tissue injuries on non contact plays are significantly higher on plastic than grass. 

Csb, but I actually work with the raiders on their practice fields. I'm not allowed to touch the stadium field,  but neither is anyone else. Any college or high school games played at allegiant are on the plastic field that sits underneath the tray the real field is on. I dont know why any team would allow any activities on their field other than their games. There is just too much at stake. 

I dont know if Rodgers pops his Achilles on the exact same play in green Bay or not. But plastic simply doesn't release like grass and your foot gets stuck in the ground and that isn't good. 

If the nflpa wasn't the weakest union in pro sports plastic would have been outlawed long ago. It's an inferior product for the best players in the world to be playing on. 

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

The reality is that even if they switched to grass across the league there’d be stadiums that do it shitty and even well maintained fields would get ruined by bad weather days like the rain on Sunday night or snow in the winter. isn’t Pittsburgh infamous for bad grass?  Let’s not pretend that just switching to grass in of itself will stop lower leg injuries or would have saved Aaron Rodgers’ achilles tendon 

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

10 minutes ago, pops said:

Arizona usually has really good turf. The NFL fucked up the superbowl with their people.

This is exactly my point. “We want grass.” “No, no - not like that”

[Kennythetiger 9404]

4 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

It's now getting a lot more traction

Nice. 

[Welch 635]

40 minutes ago, pops said:

Plastic grass sucks. It's certainly gotten better but it just can nene react the way real turf does. That being said there are some shit turf managers out there that continually put out a shitty product. Hire someone better. Alabama,  the chiefs,  green bay,  the raiders and many othets...all have great superintendents that get it and put out a great product 

[The Ace of Aces 5192]

The elephant in the room for grass fields is the lack of water sustainability in the south, southwest and west. 

[pops 7005]

2 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

The elephant in the room for grass fields is the lack of water sustainability in the south, southwest and west. 

Roughly 40 acres of grass for the entire NFL is not going to exacerbate a water crisis anywhere. 

[Jkwellborn 6713]

did he even stretch pre game ?
all this because an old douche got hurt

They made it illegal to hit the qb below the waist because Tom Brady’s bitch ass blew his knee out.

No one cares about player safety, but they’re worried about high profile attractions going out.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I'm of the opinion that playing on grass is better. That said, i don't see how it is feasible.

 

When football players get injured, how about we attribute it to the fact that they are playing football instead of blaming grass.

I don’t want the change. Cowboys D flies, and so does the Horns’. I don’t want either slowed down because of that fucking weirdo crybaby. Fuck him and every ding dong Jets fan. 

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

If the NFL starts pulling out artificial turf, there is bound to be a trickle down to the college level.  But does it stop there?   If the removal of turf is driven by verifiable evidence down to the hIgh school level showing increases in certain leg injuries, will the high schools start doing the same?   

I’m kind of 50/50 with the issue.   I see the cost savings with turf along with water savings    But damn the stuff is like playing on an oven surface during day games in August and September and even into early October.   And I must say I admire many of the SEC stadiums surfaces who chose to stick with grass as it seems to be the standard.  

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Nueces River Rat

[hobbes2702 13049]

Always loved the grassy turf for football. Nice tight cuts. I hated it for baseball. That said, I loved the old turf on the disch for baseball. Never a bad hop.

[HOOKEM4 5039]

If you have ever sat there at 3rd base coaching waiting for the kid to throw a strike for 30 min in 108 degree temps while your feet burned, you would be on team grass. Those plastic fields are brutal in Texas. I wish we had grass only fields in Texas.  99% of the big complexes can get reuse water to irrigate based on their locations.

[Texzilla58 4740]

Bad grass is worse than good turf, and vice versa. I played on Astro turf back when it was just laid on asphalt and it was hard, horrible and hot. But I also played on hard pan, baseball diamonds, and really shitty turf.

The NFLPA’s new ED is just trolling to make some hype and show off for his membership. Did it before we even know the specifics of what caused his injury, but Achilles are generally noncontact and suffered by speedy dudes like wrs and dbs. I don’t think turf had shit to do with it.

The league isn’t going to move exclusively to grass. Grass in Giants Stadium is not in a climate to support 20 or so games a year.

[Tex Pete 20405]

5 hours ago, futureman said:

as long as we’re on the subject can we talk about why DKR doesn’t have natural grass? 

Because our last grass field was absolute shit. Once they lowered the field, that iteration of our grass was horrid. The original grass when we went from turf to grass at the onset of the Big 12 was fantastic. Not sure what they got wrong in the re-do, whether it was drainage or just bad grass, but it got torn up so badly each year. That kind of poor surface is bad for everyone. It’s too much of a variable. 
 

I played and have been to hundreds of football games at all levels of football. Grass is best, but shitty grass is not better than modern turf. And I do not believe modern turf causes more knee injuries (don’t know about other lower extremity injuries) than grass. I read a study on it one time. Old Astroturf definitely caused injuries. 

[Tex Pete 20405]

5 hours ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

No reason for DKR not to be natural grass by next year. This shit is a problem.

Alabama's bermuda field looked absolutely perfect. I was shocked at how great it looked- even in 4k.

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2023/08/bryant-denny-stadiums-new-grass-surface-earns-positive-reviews-from-alabama-football-players.html#:~:text=The new surface has some,sidelines are now artificial turf.

How would that work out during an intense drought and water rationing?

[MrBig 5423]

Why do players wear cleats on turf? They should wear turf shoes without the spikes. 

[Deej 76855]

Back in my day, we played on asphalt and we liked it!

[Hermanator 7120]

Are there more turf related injuries now on turf fields than on grass fields? Should have several years of data to go over from NFL games. 

[Vermin 3055]

Turf sucks because it has less give. Playing pickup soccer on it, your knees and ankles will be much more sore than on grass.

[pops 7005]

30 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Are there more turf related injuries now on turf fields than on grass fields? Should have several years of data to go over from NFL games. 

Yes. 

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

How would that work out during an intense drought and water rationing?

We can paint it green. Which is what many do to make it look fantastic on TV.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

Why do players wear cleats on turf? They should wear turf shoes without the spikes. 

80’s vintage for $22.95 on eBay.

[hobbes2702 13049]

9 hours ago, MrBig said:

Why do players wear cleats on turf? They should wear turf shoes without the spikes. 

[TexArcher 37989]

9 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

The league isn’t going to move exclusively to grass. Grass in Giants Stadium is not in a climate to support 20 or so games a year.

This is true, but just because we can't completely correct a problem doesn't mean we shouldn't correct as much of it as possible.  It's a percentages game, and if 75% (or 60%, or whatever) of the articifical turf in college and pro stadiums can be replaced, and that reduces the risk of injury proportionally, then it's worth doing.

And, if places like Michigan, Ohio St, and Penn St can't grow grass year-round and it hurts their recruiting, that's a side effect that the rest of us will just have to live with.  Maybe we expand the scholarship limit or something.

Edited September 14, 2023 by TexArcher

[Texzilla58 4740]

Modern turf with the rubber flakes doesn’t have the issues old turf had. I think the data on modern turf vs grass is a wash.

[alincoln 2381]

13 hours ago, JBJ said:

MLS uses artificial turf, but it isn't the type that NFLPA is trying to ban. It kind of important to note that NY(J) doesn't either.

Almost exclusively the teams that play in NFL stadiums

[Pam Cummings 9646]

There's also the issue that you just straight up shouldn't trust the NFL to properly maintain a grass field. They cheap out whenever possible, why would this be different.

[BabaYaga 15302]

16 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

And you could resod, but it takes time for those roots to get in there. You'd have a really slippery surface every week if you did that. It was, IIRC, what players complained about in the super bowl.

And the Rodgers injury just didnt have anything to do with field surface imo. He got tackled in a weird way and his ankle planted in the wrong direction. I just dont see how the turf made a difference there.

Turf "grabs" better than grass.  AR slipping had zero to do with the field and everything to do with how he planted his foot.  As stated, see the SB fiasco.  I have two HS athletes that play field sports.  In soccer specifically, turf destroys knees like no other.  There is not as much "give" with cleats on turf as there is on grass.  When you plant wrong, knees get messed up.  

Edited September 14, 2023 by BabaYaga

['stache 21825]

I’ve read references to the studies but haven’t seen the actual study. Seems to me if it was that big a difference owners would pay for grass to avoid losing their investments into players. Also, don’t players wear longer cleats on grass to avoid the turf giving way from under them? Turf shoes are supposed to give way too but injuries will still happen. Either way, no way it’s feasible for most domes. I also know I wouldn’t be making this decision based on the opinion of some European soccer snobs.

[cmontexas 3272]

40 year old dudes that don't take care of their body have no business on an NFL field unless its to kick the ball then get out of the way. Brady was the exception because he maintained his body and probably consumed an amazon village worth of adrenochrome

[Guest]

16 hours ago, cmontexas said:

How much time did Aaron Rodgers spend in the weight room this off-season?

The unbearable weight of his own confidence in the abyss?

[Magus Ossis 2813]

Quote

Conclusion: The available body of literature suggests a higher rate of foot and ankle injuries on artificial turf, both old-generation and new-generation turf, compared with natural grass. High-quality studies also suggest that the rates of knee injuries and hip injuries are similar between playing surfaces, although elite-level football athletes may be more predisposed to knee injuries on artificial turf compared with natural grass. Only a few articles in the literature reported a higher overall injury rate on natural grass compared with artificial turf, and all of these studies received financial support from the artificial turf industry.

Abstract link

What this literature does not even address is the cumulative wear the higher impact surface causes in joints. If you live long enough, your knees will eventually wear out and you will need them replaced. Major factors that affect just how long that is include your genes, your BMI, and whether you spend your days inflicting high impacts on your knees. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, pops said:

Roughly 40 acres of grass for the entire NFL is not going to exacerbate a water crisis anywhere. 

Well neither are 3 handed gascans gonna solve for the hole in the ozone, yet here they are.

It would hardly be the first negligible stake in the ground on that front.

Edited September 14, 2023 by slorch

[JBJ 3662]

35 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I’ve read references to the studies but haven’t seen the actual study. Seems to me if it was that big a difference owners would pay for grass to avoid losing their investments into players. Also, don’t players wear longer cleats on grass to avoid the turf giving way from under them? Turf shoes are supposed to give way too but injuries will still happen. Either way, no way it’s feasible for most domes. I also know I wouldn’t be making this decision based on the opinion of some European soccer snobs.

The soccer issue is entirely different.  The ball doesn't play the same on each surface.  It's closer to when tennis pros refuse to play on clay (the French Open).

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3028]

IMO artificial turf is not only poor from a player safety perspective, but it is honestly not good for the environment at all. The sharp temperature rise alone should be enough to deter its use in modern college/NFL football these days. It was 164 fucking degrees on the field during the Rice game.

Well-maintained, tightly mown, well-drained bermudagrass is the way (in the south). Before you water nazis get after me, there's plenty of rainwater/greywater reuse options these days that makes even the most rural/dry sites feasible for decent bermudagrass in the south. I'm sure UT can come up with some cool environmentally-friendly rainwater catch system at DKR to water the new grass field.

Get the soil and drainage right, hire the Alabama groundskeeper, and profit.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Wilcox Cummingtonite

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

14 hours ago, lilMAC25 said:

The 2021 study showed something like 0.01 increase per 100 plays in chance of injury for FT vs grass.

The next year “rocketed” up to 0.013 greater chance of injury over 100 plays.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nflpa-says-new-data-shows-turf-fields-still-cause-more-injuries-than-natural-surfaces-171352790.html

Thats a small number.

 

 

What does that convert to as a probability? The number of injuries per 100 plays may be small but still double in terms of probability. 

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3028]

11 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

How would that work out during an intense drought and water rationing?

UT could easily design some type of rainwater catchment system in and around DKR to supply irrigation. In addition, on site campus greywater could easily be treated and reused. I'm fairly certain both rainwater collection and greywater treatment/irrigation are already in use on campus anyway.

Not to mention we still have the Denius practice fields (natural grass) which are already being irrigated and look great.

Grass might be a soulless monoculture but it sure beats plastic impervious cover that literally melts your shoes off and does absolutely nothing for the environment but contribute to the urban heat island effect.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Wilcox Cummingtonite

[TreatyOak 16369]

23 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

IMO artificial turf is not only poor from a player safety perspective, but it is honestly not good for the environment at all. The sharp temperature rise alone should be enough to deter its use in modern college/NFL football these days. It was 164 fucking degrees on the field during the Rice game.

Well-maintained, tightly mown, well-drained bermudagrass is the way (in the south). Before you water nazis get after me, there's plenty of rainwater/greywater reuse options these days that makes even the most rural/dry sites feasible for decent bermudagrass in the south. I'm sure UT can come up with some cool environmentally-friendly rainwater catch system at DKR to water the new grass field.

Get the soil and drainage right, hire the Alabama groundskeeper, and profit.

Westlake High School installed a new system of field turf this summer (Matrix Helix synthetic turf installed by Hellas and Ecotherm® infill,) which keeps field temperatures about 30 degrees cooler than traditional infill products. Not sure how it works but it feels great on the turf even on the hottest days. 

[Js1 85447]

1 hour ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

rainwater

[NeverMarryAStripper 21912]

1 hour ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

UT could easily design some type of rainwater catchment system in and around DKR to supply irrigation. In addition, on site campus greywater could easily be treated and reused. I'm fairly certain both rainwater collection and greywater treatment/irrigation are already in use on campus anyway.

Not to mention we still have the Denius practice fields (natural grass) which are already being irrigated and look great.

Grass might be a soulless monoculture but it sure beats plastic impervious cover that literally melts your shoes off and does absolutely nothing for the environment but contribute to the urban heat island effect.

Just have the stadium toilets flush directly onto the field.  Water and fertilizer all at once.

[JBJ 3662]

Y'all acting like DKR wasn't just grass recently and most of UT doesn't have grass everywhere.  I think the artificial turf went in with Godzillatron.

If there was a big injury difference, you'd think that injuries would be much more prominent than they are considering almost everyone practices on artificial turf even if they play on grass.

There are already less hard, cooler artificial turf products and everything new turf is permeable.

I think grass is nicer.  I'd rather play around poorer weather on artificial turf, but I don't really care either way.

[lilMAC25 3801]

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

What does that convert to as a probability? The number of injuries per 100 plays may be small but still double in terms of probability. 

🤷🏼‍♂️ I gots no clue 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

While we're on the topic, the fucking baseball field needs to be grass and dirt, the way baseball is meant to be played.

[hobbes2702 13049]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

While we're on the topic, the fucking baseball field needs to be grass and dirt, the way baseball is meant to be played.

Not unless we are getting a practice field it doesn’t.

['stache 21825]

2 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

Abstract link

What this literature does not even address is the cumulative wear the higher impact surface causes in joints. If you live long enough, your knees will eventually wear out and you will need them replaced. Major factors that affect just how long that is include your genes, your BMI, and whether you spend your days inflicting high impacts on your knees. 

Not exactly a slam dunk. I believe it's likely that more injuries happen on turf than grass, but I suspect it's not nearly a large enough margin to make domes consider massive investments in ways to grow grass indoors and to forego revenues of non sports events. I also think turf will continue getting better and better. I can't believe that carpet on concrete was allowable for so long. I do think that more colleges (cough, cough, OKST) should go to grass for football, especially when the turf in August and September is like 150 degrees. Gundy mentioned it a number of times how hot it is 4-5 feet above the turf.

[Texas Jeff 1945]

How would that work out during an intense drought and water rationing?

I told my kids during COVID vaccinations that when the university decides to do something, they drop the hammer. Just watch. The city of Austin will be talking forever about who gets in line first and where we can equitably and sustainably have COVID shots. The website will suck.

And UT will have eight lines moving swiftly with phone apps, good signage, and cheerful folks helping out.

I was right. CoA eventually figured it out, but UT was a vaccination machine.

If UT wants to water a field, watered it will be.

Having said that, the previous grass sucked by the end of the season. We probably needed 2-3 more Aggies to tell us what was wrong. But I’m confident that if Texas decides to do it, it will eventually be done well.

['stache 21825]

I would add that I think the NFLPA knows it's not a massive deal but want it out there for the next CBA negotiations.