Surly Political Windsock Poll 2023

[bernorange 8348]

It's been a few years since the last one.

A legend for folks who haven't seen my previous polls:

Republican = Party partisan
Democrat = Party partisan
Libertarian (big L) = Party partisan

conservative = ideologue generally aligned with GOP
liberal = ideologue generally aligned with Dems
libertarian (small l - classical liberal) = ideologue that has liberty issues as paramount (could vote any party)

moderate/independent = undefined - if you self identify as this, please tell us what it means to you

 

[TexArcher 37521]

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

This.  For the time being...and for a long time to come, I suspect, I'm a single-issue voter: pro-continuing the Republic, anti-violent insurrection to install an authoritarian state (that's the national manifestation...the state version has signed on for the same approach, but they don't need the insurrection, as they've snowed enough voters).

I mean, maybe beyond that, I'm a secondary issue voter: I'm anti-cruelty for the sake of cruelty.  I understand that in any policy debate, some eggs will get broken, there are often only "bad choices."  But I'll never vote for a political party or movement that revels in and celebrates their cruelty.

So, for now, that means I am a 100% Dem voter.  I've never been a 100% one party voter in my life until the last 7-8 years.  And I suspect I'll only vote for Dems for the rest of my life, because the opposition party is only going further down the crazytown trail.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

15 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

that has never existed

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

39 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

 

33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  For the time being...and for a long time to come, I suspect, I'm a single-issue voter: pro-continuing the Republic, anti-violent insurrection to install an authoritarian state (that's the national manifestation...the state version has signed on for the same approach, but they don't need the insurrection, as they've snowed enough voters).

I mean, maybe beyond that, I'm a secondary issue voter: I'm anti-cruelty for the sake of cruelty.  I understand that in any policy debate, some eggs will get broken, there are often only "bad choices."  But I'll never vote for a political party or movement that revels in and celebrates their cruelty.

So, for now, that means I am a 100% Dem voter.  I've never been a 100% one party voter in my life until the last 7-8 years.  And I suspect I'll only vote for Dems for the rest of my life, because the opposition party is only going further down the crazytown trail.

This.  The Republican Party had declared war against women, and the Libertarians are nuts.  Democrat all the way at this point.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'll vote straight-ticket Dem from here to the foreseeable future, but don't consider myself a Democrat. Maybe I am? I just don't get voting for the other guys given... well... *gestures at everything*

I don't want to see kids murdered in school with no changes to ease of getting guns. I don't want to see morally bankrupt people raised to the highest office. I don't want to see constant threats to voting and civil rights. I don't want to see constant culture wars over complete bullshit that doesn't matter. I don't want our leaders to claim global warming isn't real when I just lived through the hottest summer of my life that has me considering leaving the state I've lived in all my life. I don't want to see people undermining democracy and sowing distrust of our system of voting.

On the flipside, I'd like to see real solutions on the border. I'd like to see more control in government spending. But the former issues far outweigh these things.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

funny no one yet has self-identified as a Republican. and yet those people still somehow win elections. hmmm

[RomaVicta 29794]

1 hour ago, bernorange said:

It's been a few years since the last one.

A legend for folks who haven't seen my previous polls:

Republican = Party partisan
Democrat = Party partisan
Libertarian (big L) = Party partisan

conservative = ideologue generally aligned with GOP
liberal = ideologue generally aligned with Dems
libertarian (small l - classical liberal) = ideologue that has liberty issues as paramount (could vote any party)

moderate/independent = undefined - if you self identify as this, please tell us what it means to you

 

I think your legend is dated. Five years ago, I described myself as someone who votes Dem without much joy. That's back when I didn't realize the republic was in danger. You know, the days were partisan politics were remotely attached to policy preference.

In this poll, today, I definitely identify as Dem because they are the only thing preserving the republic.

[YChang 3431]

Hard to imagine I'll ever vote Republican again in the near future. 

[Da Fino 2740]

I've always been kind of a pacifist.

[Js1 85114]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

that has never existed

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

Quote

Remember when you first learned of oxymorons in grade school, and you sat in class for the rest of the day thinking of new ones? They’re kind of funny, the irony that exists in a few simple words. Jumbo shrimp. Bittersweet. Deafening silence. Clearly misunderstood. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Identifying as socially liberal and fiscally conservative tells the world “I care about people but not enough to see them cared for on a systemic level.” The key thing that socially liberal, fiscally conservative supporters fail to see is that, in this capitalist global economy, money is the materialization of care. Empathy can only go so far when there are lives at stake, and empathy needs the funding to turn into comprehensive action.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Js1

[TwiceHorn 31283]

40 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

 

Respectfully disagree.  Although the "fiscally conservative" part, as far as government spending and deficits go, is utter bullshit as a practical matter, a certain level of skepticism toward government solutions for every problem and the cost thereof is a valid policy position and one that I expect to maintain for the remainder of my life.  That doesn't mean burn it all down or anything of the sort.

At least going forward. Recent history says that you are dead on. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[mr.goodkat 464]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

 

this shit right here is 100% bullshit . i consider myself independent . i have voted republican before do not see me doing so  again . i have not been the most political person and i do not force my agnostic views on others but the spiritual / moral brigade pushing the bible laws on this state is infuriating . if you think for one fucking second that because i don't like the way i'm taxed that i'm ok with burning down a drag show then you can fuck right off 

[Beau Vine 54004]

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

This.  I'm more comfortable categorizing myself by what I am not than by what I am.  

Fuck the GOP.

 

[RomaVicta 29794]

14 minutes ago, mr.goodkat said:

this shit right here is 100% bullshit . i consider myself independent . i have voted republican before do not see me doing so  again . i have not been the most political person and i do not force my agnostic views on others but the spiritual / moral brigade pushing the bible laws on this state is infuriating . if you think for one fucking second that because i don't like the way i'm taxed that i'm ok with burning down a drag show then you can fuck right off 

Respectfully, if you look back on the history of someone claiming to be fiscally conservative/socially liberal, I think @Js1's comment and quote are apt. The GOP/right wing hate engine has been running for more than 40 years if you go back to Reagan and Limbaugh. Some may say it starts earlier.

Voting GOP endorsed that hate even if many of those voters didn't want to believe it did. I believe the sentiment in "socially liberal" as meaning you don't want to remove all safety nets and believe in tolerance. But in effect, casting a fiscally conservative/socially liberal vote for the GOP meant the same thing as voting for what has become MAGA.

The GOP did a great job in making persons such as yourself believe otherwise, but the peeking in windows to see who was having sex with whom and fairly open racism goes back to the Reagan years.

One story that broke at the time was how Martin Luther King was referred to as Martin Lucifer Coon in White House meetings when they were resisting the creation of an MLK holiday. Reagan joked about welfare queens and people using foodstamps to buy one lime and then using the change for liquor to try to cut sustenance support for the poor. 

But he smiled and seemed like a very nice uncle. It was a charade from those days way back.

Welcome to the world of non-GOPs. I hope former GOPs like you find a home where the fiscal conservative battle can be waged in good faith. The country will need it should we ever return to policy debate.

Edited September 25, 2023 by RomaVicta

[Willfully Horn 7916]

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

Close. If fiscally conservative were to mean graduated tax brackets that continue upwards the more money you make, and tighter regulations on banking and the market, as it ought to, then that’s me.

I used to be left of center. Since the center disintegrated, I have been moving left.

I am a patriot and I love what this country claims to stand for.

I

[Biff Tannen 45499]

6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Close. If fiscally conservative were to mean graduated tax brackets that continue upwards the more money you make, and tighter regulations on banking and the market, as it ought to, then that’s me.

I used to be left of center. Since the center disintegrated, I have been moving left.

I am a patriot and I love what this country claims to stand for.

I

[Celery Man 20886]

other - I don't vote for every democrat, I vote against every traitor

[babysdaddy 2718]

3 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

 

2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

that has never existed

 

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

 

I guess I am your poster boy Js1.  To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT, I think the practice of abortion is abhorrent but understand that the availability or lack thereof impacts lower socioeconomic folks more than rich folks but believe there should be limits and Dems haven't given an actual "up to x weeks" and so if the range is up 6 weeks or 8 or whatever versus all the way up to birth then I'll go with the smaller week number, and agree whole heartedly about religion and the GOP (personal opinion but super religious 'shove it down your throat' folks don't really have that much dough). 

So in practice, I'll abstain from voting in certain races (i.e. if it is Trump v Biden again), and in general will vote for the least crazy option in any other race regardless of party affiliation.

 

[TxEx84 375]

7 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

I guess I am your poster boy Js1.  To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT, I think the practice of abortion is abhorrent but understand that the availability or lack thereof impacts lower socioeconomic folks more than rich folks but believe there should be limits and Dems haven't given an actual "up to x weeks" and so if the range is up 6 weeks or 8 or whatever versus all the way up to birth then I'll go with the smaller week number, and agree whole heartedly about religion and the GOP (personal opinion but super religious 'shove it down your throat' folks don't really have that much dough). 

 

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!😀

I used to consider myself a moderate Republican.  Fiscal conservative (less government/lower taxes) but pro-environment and social causes (just thought the majority of funding should be from individuals and not taxpayer funded). But now the Republican party has gone bat-shit crazy.  The party of Trump, Dan Patrick, Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, Ken Paxton, etc. is not my party.  The party left me.  So now I vote straight Democrat until something changes.

[babysdaddy 2718]

3 minutes ago, TxEx84 said:

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!😀

I used to consider myself a moderate Republican.  Fiscal conservative (less government/lower taxes) but pro-environment and social causes (just thought the majority of funding should be from individuals and not taxpayer funded). But now the Republican party has gone bat-shit crazy.  The party of Trump, Dan Patrick, Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, Ken Paxton, etc. is not my party.  The party left me.  So now I vote straight Democrat until something changes.

yeah I know.  I just started typing

[aggie08 21434]

20 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT

Is this a bit?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

20 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

I guess I am your poster boy Js1.  To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT, I think the practice of abortion is abhorrent but understand that the availability or lack thereof impacts lower socioeconomic folks more than rich folks but believe there should be limits and Dems haven't given an actual "up to x weeks" and so if the range is up 6 weeks or 8 or whatever versus all the way up to birth then I'll go with the smaller week number, and agree whole heartedly about religion and the GOP (personal opinion but super religious 'shove it down your throat' folks don't really have that much dough). 

So in practice, I'll abstain from voting in certain races (i.e. if it is Trump v Biden again), and in general will vote for the least crazy option in any other race regardless of party affiliation.

 

Seriously?  Are you really this dumb?

[David Dennison 18661]

21 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

I guess I am your poster boy Js1.  To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT, I think the practice of abortion is abhorrent but understand that the availability or lack thereof impacts lower socioeconomic folks more than rich folks but believe there should be limits and Dems haven't given an actual "up to x weeks" and so if the range is up 6 weeks or 8 or whatever versus all the way up to birth then I'll go with the smaller week number, and agree whole heartedly about religion and the GOP (personal opinion but super religious 'shove it down your throat' folks don't really have that much dough). 

So in practice, I'll abstain from voting in certain races (i.e. if it is Trump v Biden again), and in general will vote for the least crazy option in any other race regardless of party affiliation.

 

[aggie08 21434]

Also, I fully understand not liking Biden as a President or a candidate. I get it. But what about his platform, specifically, makes you abstain from voting for him over Trump, essentially conflating them as equal evils?

[royiv 9164]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Also, I fully understand not liking Biden as a President or a candidate. I get it. But what about his platform, specifically, makes you abstain from voting for him over Trump, essentially conflating them as equal evils?

Well, one is old and has a stutter and the other is old and tried to overturn an election. Samesies.

[TeeDubya 3358]

small ell liberarian.

Financially conservative, socially liberal (as in, the government shouldn't be legislating lifestyle choices---leave people the fuck alone).

But in the big dilemma between raising taxes and not being a cruel bastard to disenfranchised groups, I'll side with kindness every time. 
And no tolerance for traitors like the MAGA group.

We have more than enough money to make sure every school kid is fed, and fuck vouchers using public money for private schools.

Edited September 25, 2023 by TeeDubya

[royiv 9164]

1 minute ago, TeeDubya said:

Financially conservative, socially liberal (as in, leave people the fuck alone).

I've seen this sentiment posted a couple of times and I identified this way in my early voting years, but I struggled with it in a practical sense.

Yes, I want people to be left the fuck alone in the sense of being able to live their life without the government meddling in their bedroom, what they can read, politicians not being religious ideologues. At the same time, I think we have an obligation as a society to protect the disenfranchised, provide high quality public education, create social safety nets, etc. 

It sounds like you acknowledge some of what I'm saying when you said you err on the side of kindness. As far as being fiscally conservative, if we would fix our broken tax code that benefits the ultrawealthy and corporations, I think most would be happier about paying their fair share.

[Sbbruin 21738]

I was a lifelong registered Republican, but the catastrophe that started (for me) in 2016 and the radically growing divide between what this new GOP had become and where i was aligned were becoming almost diametrically opposed.  Around 2018 re-registered independent and haven't looked back.

[TeeDubya 3358]

I get so disillusioned at the blatant pandering the MAGA/GOP does to the bigoted, misogynistic, racist, undereducated people to stoke fear that brown-skinned, atheist, drag queens are after their kids and jobs.

And @royiv, 100% fix the tax code loopholes that only mega rich and corporations seem to be able to use.

Edited September 25, 2023 by TeeDubya

[immamac 42521]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_conservatism

Spoiler

Progressive conservatism is a political ideology that attempts to combine conservative and progressive policies. While still supportive of capitalist society, it stresses the importance of government intervention in order to improve human and environmental conditions.

Progressive conservatism first arose in Germany and the United Kingdom in the 1870s and 1880s under Chancellor Otto Von Bismarck and Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli respectively. Disraeli's 'One Nation' Toryism has since become the central progressive conservative tradition in the UK.

In the UK, the Prime Ministers Disraeli, Stanley Baldwin, Neville Chamberlain, Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan,^[1] David Cameron and Theresa May have been described as progressive conservatives.^[2][3] The Catholic Church's Rerum Novarum (1891) advocates a progressive conservative doctrine known as social Catholicism.^[4]

In the United States, Theodore Roosevelt has been the principal figure identified with progressive conservatism as a political tradition. Roosevelt stated that he had "always believed that wise progressivism and wise conservatism go hand in hand".^[5] The administration of President William Howard Taft was considered by some to be progressive conservative. Various European leaders such as Angela Merkel have also aligned themselves with progressive conservative politics.^[6]

I am this. 

 

[wildcat09 29260]

I think it's funny he didn't even include leftist/progressive.

[Guest]

What party am I if I can't stand Donald Trump or Greg Casar?

[wildcat09 29260]

57 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

I guess I am your poster boy Js1.  To be honest, I don't think the GOP demonizes the LGBT community and think certain segments of the Dem base are WAY more anti LBGT, I think the practice of abortion is abhorrent but understand that the availability or lack thereof impacts lower socioeconomic folks more than rich folks but believe there should be limits and Dems haven't given an actual "up to x weeks" and so if the range is up 6 weeks or 8 or whatever versus all the way up to birth then I'll go with the smaller week number, and agree whole heartedly about religion and the GOP (personal opinion but super religious 'shove it down your throat' folks don't really have that much dough). 

So in practice, I'll abstain from voting in certain races (i.e. if it is Trump v Biden again), and in general will vote for the least crazy option in any other race regardless of party affiliation.

 

This might be my least favorite type of political person in America. A fairly strong anti-abortion view that is absolutely, completely fucking uninformed about anything having to do with the issue. 

Oh, you think we should be more permissive of abortion earlier in pregnancy and get more restrictive later in pregnancy, so we can prohibit late-term abortions except when the life of the mother is at stake? You colossal fucking idiot, what the fuck do you think Roe was?!

[babysdaddy 2718]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This might be my least favorite type of political person in America. A fairly strong anti-abortion view that is absolutely, completely fucking uninformed about anything having to do with the issue. 

Oh, you think we should be more permissive of abortion earlier in pregnancy and get more restrictive later in pregnancy, so we can prohibit late-term abortions except when the life of the mother is at stake? You colossal fucking idiot, what the fuck do you think Roe was?!

 I was just addressing what Js1 said.

Edited September 25, 2023 by babysdaddy
trying to avoid personal attacks

[YGIFS 19449]

It's curious that 35% of the nation's voting population is socially conservative, fiscally liberal...but less than 5% of them self-identify as that.  

It's also curious that we live in an open-primary state where a couple hundred thousand Democrats could easily pull GOP ballots to vote for the lesser of two insane primary candidates, and still vote straight ticket Democrat (and even if the GOP candidate wins, at least it'd be the non-batshit MAGA asshat), and completely change the political landscape in Texas forever.  But they choose to Rock the Vote or Turn out the Blue or whatever childish effort y'all have up your sleeves in the 2024/26 cycle.  Not saying it's your responsibility to rescue the Republican Party from itself, but a few hundred thousand of you could easily save the Republic of Texas if you could manage the Herculean effort of grabbing a different colored piece of paper in March.  I know, I know...you gotta weigh in on that congressional race that your side has zero fucking chance of winning in a general.  So keep at it.  Maybe get some block-walking in while you're at it.  Really shake things up.  Keep the stupids at home by defeating them before their candidate of choice makes it out of a primary.  Our system is just sitting there waiting to be exploited.  But yeah, some bumper stickers and a free concert should do it.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

It's curious that 35% of the nation's voting population is socially conservative, fiscally liberal...but less than 5% of them self-identify as that.  

It's also curious that we live in an open-primary state where a couple hundred thousand Democrats could easily pull GOP ballots to vote for the lesser of two insane primary candidates, and still vote straight ticket Democrat (and even if the GOP candidate wins, at least it'd be the non-batshit MAGA asshat), and completely change the political landscape in Texas forever.  But they choose to Rock the Vote or Turn out the Blue or whatever childish effort y'all have up your sleeves in the 2024/26 cycle.  Not saying it's your responsibility to rescue the Republican Party from itself, but a few hundred thousand of you could easily save the Republic of Texas if you could manage the Herculean effort of grabbing a different colored piece of paper in March.  I know, I know...you gotta weigh in on that congressional race that your side has zero fucking chance of winning in a general.  So keep at it.  Maybe get some block-walking in while you're at it.  Really shake things up.  Keep the stupids at home by defeating them before their candidate of choice makes it out of a primary.  Our system is just sitting there waiting to be exploited.  But yeah, some bumper stickers and a free concert should do it.

Depends.

Who's playing at the concert?

Because if it's that Susanna Hoffs - Belinda Carlisle - Sheena Easton combo gig I've been pulling for.....IN.

[wildcat09 29260]

5 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

It's curious that 35% of the nation's voting population is socially conservative, fiscally liberal...but less than 5% of them self-identify as that.  

It's also curious that we live in an open-primary state where a couple hundred thousand Democrats could easily pull GOP ballots to vote for the lesser of two insane primary candidates, and still vote straight ticket Democrat (and even if the GOP candidate wins, at least it'd be the non-batshit MAGA asshat), and completely change the political landscape in Texas forever.  But they choose to Rock the Vote or Turn out the Blue or whatever childish effort y'all have up your sleeves in the 2024/26 cycle.  Not saying it's your responsibility to rescue the Republican Party from itself, but a few hundred thousand of you could easily save the Republic of Texas if you could manage the Herculean effort of grabbing a different colored piece of paper in March.  I know, I know...you gotta weigh in on that congressional race that your side has zero fucking chance of winning in a general.  So keep at it.  Maybe get some block-walking in while you're at it.  Really shake things up.  Keep the stupids at home by defeating them before their candidate of choice makes it out of a primary.  Our system is just sitting there waiting to be exploited.  But yeah, some bumper stickers and a free concert should do it.

Oh fuck off.  Most Democratic voters in Texas are currently represented in Congress by Democrats. We like to have a say in which Democrat that will be.  The only remotely intelligent thing in that post is your acknowledgement that it's not our fucking responsibility to fix the Republican party.  Stop trying to blame others for what you and your friends overlooked and failed to stop until it was too late.

[C-Man 27058]

4 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

 

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  For the time being...and for a long time to come, I suspect, I'm a single-issue voter: pro-continuing the Republic, anti-violent insurrection to install an authoritarian state (that's the national manifestation...the state version has signed on for the same approach, but they don't need the insurrection, as they've snowed enough voters).

I mean, maybe beyond that, I'm a secondary issue voter: I'm anti-cruelty for the sake of cruelty.  I understand that in any policy debate, some eggs will get broken, there are often only "bad choices."  But I'll never vote for a political party or movement that revels in and celebrates their cruelty.

So, for now, that means I am a 100% Dem voter.  I've never been a 100% one party voter in my life until the last 7-8 years.  And I suspect I'll only vote for Dems for the rest of my life, because the opposition party is only going further down the crazytown trail.

Pretty much where I fall so I chose "Democrat."

[Rimbo 25785]

I don't align myself with any set of beliefs beyond "ou sucks; hook em."

I prefer the freedom to adapt my beliefs as I learn new things, to the comfort of isn't a label to associate with "like-minded" people. My political beliefs are more or less constantly changing and adaptive.

That said, there are some general principles at work. The principles are more like guidelines than rules, though.

I generally believe in regulated capitalism, social services, freedom of speech, religious freedom, and democracy as a check against power. I think education is the most powerful political weapon. Foreign policy is complicated and should be treated as such; there's times to intervene and times not to, but I generally want policy to help more people, even outside of our own country, when we can get away with it. And currently I support open immigration. I don't believe all people are equally treated by the law, and they should be; however, I don't think all people are equal.

All of the above subject to change without warning or notice.

[Guest]

Fiscal conservative.- doesn't exist in any political reality.

Socially libertarian.  Lots of allies out there who don't understand why I can't discard the fiscal part.

It's frustrating AF.  Not because I want to identify with anyone else, but wholly fok, I've never voted FOR a presidential candidate in my adult lifetime- since '92.

It sucks.

Edited September 25, 2023 by slorch

[Guest]

My plan is to vote in the Republican primary for reasons discussed by YGifs. What I'm wondering is if I'm going to actually go through with it because it presupposes that there will be a choice between a moderate candidate and a far-right candidate. It's much more likely to be far-right versus farther right. 

For example, if it was Abbott versus Huffines in a primary, I wouldn't vote for either of those guys.

[TexArcher 37521]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

 

Yeah, that isn't at all what I mean when I say that I am socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian.

I am actually more socially liberal than most liberals, in that I believe all drugs should be legal, and so should prostitution, and online poker, and just about anything else a person wants to do in the confines of his/her home that isn't hurting anybody else.  It isn't the government's job to legislate any type of morality, including infringing on any type of person's individual rights, and that includes body sovereignty, marrying whomever the fuck they want, etc.

But, it is important to stop spending more than we bring in, or at least to massively close the gap.  The reason I say that I'm not a libertarian is that their idea of fiscal conservatism seems to involve cutting all the social programs.  My answer is to cut military spending something like 20-25%, and use that surplus to make college free for everyone who can get in, and socialize our healthcare system like every other civilized, industrialized nation.  Basically, admit for one second that we're not the only country that's ever had a good idea and go on the European model that's working right in front of us.

So, yes, some people mis-use the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" label as you describe, but it is still a perfectly valid position for many of us.  Some might even argue that it's the only position that makes any god damned sense.

Edited September 25, 2023 by TexArcher

[YGIFS 19449]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh fuck off.  Most Democratic voters in Texas are currently represented in Congress by Democrats. We like to have a say in which Democrat that will be.  The only remotely intelligent thing in that post is your acknowledgement that it's not our fucking responsibility to fix the Republican party.  Stop trying to blame others for what you and your friends overlooked and failed to stop until it was too late.

Most Democratic voters in Texas are currently represented by a Democrat in Congress?  You absolutely sure on those maths?  I'm looking at 47% for Biden in Texas.  With only 34% of Congressional districts being represented by a Democrat.  That's not a 13% discrepancy.  

[ztejas 43266]

4 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

funny no one yet has self-identified as a Republican. and yet those people still somehow win elections. hmmm

There are also democrats in here identifying as moderates. 

[David Dennison 18661]

35 minutes ago, immamac said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_conservatism

  Hide contents

Progressive conservatism is a political ideology that attempts to combine conservative and progressive policies. While still supportive of capitalist society, it stresses the importance of government intervention in order to improve human and environmental conditions.

Progressive conservatism first arose in Germany and the United Kingdom in the 1870s and 1880s under Chancellor Otto Von Bismarck and Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli respectively. Disraeli's 'One Nation' Toryism has since become the central progressive conservative tradition in the UK.

In the UK, the Prime Ministers Disraeli, Stanley Baldwin, Neville Chamberlain, Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan,^[1] David Cameron and Theresa May have been described as progressive conservatives.^[2][3] The Catholic Church's Rerum Novarum (1891) advocates a progressive conservative doctrine known as social Catholicism.^[4]

In the United States, Theodore Roosevelt has been the principal figure identified with progressive conservatism as a political tradition. Roosevelt stated that he had "always believed that wise progressivism and wise conservatism go hand in hand".^[5] The administration of President William Howard Taft was considered by some to be progressive conservative. Various European leaders such as Angela Merkel have also aligned themselves with progressive conservative politics.^[6]

I am this. 

 

The Oxymoron Party.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Also socially liberal, fiscally conservative is just code for "I vote/voted Republican because I hate taxes, but I have no real issue with the part of the party that demonizes the LGBT community, abortion rights, and forces their religion down everyone's throat, because I care about taxes"

 

False.

I actively support LGBTQ issues on a personal level, both at work and in real life.  You can't write off the fiscal responsibilities either.

There are literally no candidates who match up with my beliefs. Neither the GOP, nor the Democratic party candidate are auto votes or auto- no-votes for me.

Edited September 25, 2023 by slorch

[TexArcher 37521]

4 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

funny no one yet has self-identified as a Republican. and yet those people still somehow win elections. hmmm

Are you familiar with texags.com?

[Sbbruin 21738]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

There are also democrats in here identifying as moderates. 

No such thing.  Any democrat is a Marxist radical.  That messaging has been made clear.

[SimonBolivar 10932]

What if we're Stalinists?