Surly Political Windsock Poll 2023

[David Dennison 18661]

37 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think it's funny he didn't even include leftist/progressive.

Would check.

[Zepol87 9172]

Lol the fiscally conservative and social liberal line always cracks me up

[Brisketexan 104628]

44 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

My plan is to vote in the Republican primary for reasons discussed by YGifs. What I'm wondering is if I'm going to actually go through with it because it presupposes that there will be a choice between a moderate candidate and a far-right candidate. It's much more likely to be far-right versus farther right. 

For example, if it was Abbott versus Huffines in a primary, I wouldn't vote for either of those guys.

DING DING DING.  There aren't any "good" Republicans on any Texas primary ballots any longer.  Don't get me wrong, there are Republicans who I am rooting for in the current GQP Civil War (doesn't matter, they don't have a chance, team "crazy MAGA" will win)....but I don't actually like them, and don't want to vote for any of them.  I refuse to be an accomplice in the ass-fucking of Texas, and selecting the 10-inch rape stick instead of the 3-foot rape stick is doing just that.  My selection is "fuck you, stop ass-fucking Texas."

34 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

What if we're Stalinists?

I'm not European. I don't plan on being European, so who gives a crap if they're socialists? They could be fascist anarchists - that still wouldn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Lol at having so many “definitely not a Democrat, but will never pull lever for another Pub”.    

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Born and raised south Austin lib

[aggie08 21434]

16 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol at having so many “definitely not a Democrat, but will never pull lever for another Pub”.    

I don't know, man, do you foresee the GOP reversing course on becoming a stochastic terrorism organization sometime in your lifetime? Probably, I'm sure, once that strategy proves to be unwinnable nationally for a few more elections.

But I wouldn't put money on it.

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

I don't know, man, do you foresee the GOP reversing course on becoming a stochastic terrorism organization sometime in your lifetime? Probably, I'm sure, once that strategy proves to be unwinnable nationally for a few more elections.

But I wouldn't put money on it.

Nope. It’s going to be center D vs progressives.   Hopefully this court has another good decade in it but doubt it.  

[aggie08 21434]

5 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Yeah, I'll vote straight-ticket Dem from here to the foreseeable future, but don't consider myself a Democrat. Maybe I am? I just don't get voting for the other guys given... well... *gestures at everything*

I don't want to see kids murdered in school with no changes to ease of getting guns. I don't want to see morally bankrupt people raised to the highest office. I don't want to see constant threats to voting and civil rights. I don't want to see constant culture wars over complete bullshit that doesn't matter. I don't want our leaders to claim global warming isn't real when I just lived through the hottest summer of my life that has me considering leaving the state I've lived in all my life. I don't want to see people undermining democracy and sowing distrust of our system of voting.

On the flipside, I'd like to see real solutions on the border. I'd like to see more control in government spending. But the former issues far outweigh these things.

This is exactly where I'm at, just much more eloquently stated.

I don't know that I would have ever consider myself a Republican being a pretty much life-long agnostic/atheist, but I was sure as shit a hard right lean. It's funny reading posters like fatty make overly-simplistic, uninformed, emotionally-based, pat-yourself-on-the-back arguments because it's like, "Hey! That was me 12 years ago!"

All the issues that I squabble about with Democrats just seem so inconsequential today while the GOP actively pushes hate, violence, conspiracies, climate denial, education "reform", culture wars, division, control over women, and dehumanization. 

[bernorange 8348]

5 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I think your legend is dated. ...

I started doing these polls circa 2007 or so.  I've kept the poll answers the same to allow for direct comparisons to previous results.  It's not a perfect poll, but you are getting what you have paid for.  

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I think it's funny he didn't even include leftist/progressive.

I think those would commonly be understood as in the same family as "liberal".  Also, see my comment above.  I'm not trying to disenfranchise you.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It's funny reading posters like fatty make overly-simplistic, uninformed, emotionally-based, pat-yourself-on-the-back arguments because it's like, "Hey! That was me 12 years ago!"

Over simplistic?  I’m assured here constantly that the decision isn’t difficult. And I don’t disagree. 

[aggie08 21434]

Find me a conservative that decries the MAGA movement, acknowledges climate change and election results, supports uncensored education, doesn't want to make purchasing a gun even easier, realizes that forcing women to give birth isn't sustainable, isn't demonizing the LGTBQ community, and doesn't parrot the word woke like they get paid by the mention, and you'd have my attention.

But that hypothetical candidate just got primaried 80/20, and one of their constituents is parked down their street with guns and a half-assed manifesto.

[Brisketexan 104628]

Find me a conservative that decries the MAGA movement, acknowledges climate change and election results, supports uncensored education, doesn't want to make purchasing a gun even easier, realizes that forcing women to give birth isn't sustainable, isn't demonizing the LGTBQ community, and doesn't parrot the word woke like they get paid by the mention, and you'd have my attention.
But that hypothetical candidate just got primaried 80/20, and one of their constituents is parked down their street with guns and a half-assed manifesto.

This post SHOULD be satire.
Instead, it’s rock-solid truth.
Sigh.

[Neonmoon 38127]

My problem with “fiscal conservatives” is that there hasn’t been a Republican fiscal conservative since Eisenhower. And in general, most “fiscal conservatives” don’t even know what being fiscally conservative means, much less what policies it would entail. Most people think fiscal conservative equals less spending, which is potentially true, but in reality it means more taxes. I am for more taxes. 

 

[TeeDubya 3358]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Find me a conservative that decries the MAGA movement, acknowledges climate change and election results, supports uncensored education, doesn't want to make purchasing a gun even easier, realizes that forcing women to give birth isn't sustainable, isn't demonizing the LGTBQ community, and doesn't parrot the word woke like they get paid by the mention, and you'd have my attention.

But that hypothetical candidate just got primaried 80/20, and one of their constituents is parked down their street with guns and a half-assed manifesto.

Damn good points.

I wonder if ONE of the big flaws in a primary system of picking a candidate is the extremes of the party are much more likely to be involved (voting and financially) than the vast, uninterested middle, and the more fringe the candidate, the more successful that candidate would be in  the primary process.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by TeeDubya

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

3 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Lol the fiscally conservative and social liberal line always cracks me up

I used to be that guy, then even before the GOP went MAGA, my dumb ass realized both sides spent like drunken sailors so who is spending on more worthy causes?  Dems by a mile imo.  

[956 Worldwide 34444]

16 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I'm an independent (socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not a libertarian) who would consider voting for a moderate Republican, if such a thing existed, and if the entire GOP hadn't permanently stained itself from 2015 to today.  So, in practice, I guess I'm a Democrat for the next 40 years.  Good job, GOP.

I responded “independent/moderate” because thats the ideal, but the reality is that voting for anything other than a Democrat in most elections now means that you support the destruction of our democratic and constitutional order. Or you are fine with it happening so long as you get to cast a meaningless ideologically motivated protest ballot. 

[956 Worldwide 34444]

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol at having so many “definitely not a Democrat, but will never pull lever for another Pub”.    

Democrat: “I believe in democratic elections and if I win them I may raise taxes and spend them on some things you may not like.”

Republican: “People voting is what’s wrong with this country. Also, don’t get your kids vaccinated and maybe there is a pedophile cabal we must defeat. But you can keep your guns.” 
 

WhY wOn’T yOu CoNsIdEr ThE gOp? 

[babysdaddy 2718]

12 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

My problem with “fiscal conservatives” is that there hasn’t been a Republican fiscal conservative since Eisenhower. And in general, most “fiscal conservatives” don’t even know what being fiscally conservative means, much less what policies it would entail. Most people think fiscal conservative equals less spending, which is potentially true, but in reality it means more taxes. I am for more taxes. 

 

Why are you for more taxes?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Why are you for more taxes?

I'd be for more taxes if it were dedicated to go directly to retiring the national debt until it's at 50% of current GDP.

Having it at 120% is dangerous.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

11 hours ago, TeeDubya said:

Damn good points.

I wonder if ONE of the big flaws in a primary system of picking a candidate is the extremes of the party are much more likely to be involved (voting and financially) than the vast, uninterested middle, and the more fringe the candidate, the more successful that candidate would be in  the primary process.

 

This is fixed with ranked choice voting, especially in the general. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

Antipapist.

[bolverk 29405]

16 hours ago, bernorange said:

I started doing these polls circa 2007 or so.  I've kept the poll answers the same to allow for direct comparisons to previous results.  It's not a perfect poll, but you are getting what you have paid for.  

I think those would commonly be understood as in the same family as "liberal".  Also, see my comment above.  I'm not trying to disenfranchise you.  

Do you happen to have the results of previous polls? It'd be interesting to see the change in participation/results over time.

When I first joined Shaggy in 2010, the CR was comprised of mostly very, very conservative posters. I tried to participate a little bit in discussions (but mostly avoided) because all I'd get in response were memes and dumb gifs. It seems like the turning point began in 2016 when others became engaged, and then most conservatives bailed out during the switch to Surly. 

[bernorange 8348]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Do you happen to have the results of previous polls? It'd be interesting to see the change in participation/results over time.

When I first joined Shaggy in 2010, the CR was comprised of mostly very, very conservative posters. ...

1. Not handy.  Unfortunately, shaggy is no more and I doubt the wayback machine archived the poll threads,  Previous results are mostly in my head FWIW.  2018 poll was linked in the OP.

2. Poll results from shaggy consistently showed a very even left-right distribution.  There was a very strong correlation with which side was more vocal/active in the CR and which side currently occupied the POTUS.  The opposite side was always more vocal.

[bolverk 29405]

5 minutes ago, bernorange said:

1. Not handy.  Unfortunately, shaggy is no more and I doubt the wayback machine archived the poll threads,  Previous results are mostly in my head FWIW.  2018 poll was linked in the OP.

2. Poll results from shaggy consistently showed a very even left-right distribution.  There was a very strong correlation with which side was more vocal/active in the CR and which side currently occupied the POTUS.  The opposite side was always more vocal.

Thanks.

1) I guess I just skimmed the OP and missed the link to the last one, which I have zero memory of participating in.

2) I suppose that makes sense. Any speculation for why that truism isn't holding now? You'd think the conservatives/Republicans would be all over this board with Biden as president.

[bernorange 8348]

17 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Any speculation for why that truism isn't holding now?

Trump broke the Republican party/conservative coalition.

[bolverk 29405]

3 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Trump broke the Republican party/conservative coalition.

I think that's true. After posting above, I went to compare the results from 2018. It looks like at least one poster went from conservative to libertarian -- though you libertarians are also down some. At least one of the Republicans died (RIP to that troubled soul), but the conservatives overall have simply abandoned the board or are refusing to self-ID.

Obviously, the most striking result is a consolidation of all the others under the general Democratic Party umbrella.

[DixonHur 11228]

5 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

Why are you for more taxes?

For me it's not about how much we pay in taxes, but rather what we get for them.  

Right now I feel like we're just paying money into a black hole.  What are we getting for our taxes?  The infrastructure is a mess, the healthcare system is a mess, the education system is a mess, the social safety net has almost completely disappeared leading to a homelessness epidemic, and the list goes on.

Instead we have military spending that outpaces the next 10 countries combined, militarized police, and a government run by big money special interests.

'Merca!

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

I dig our highway systems and the fact that Huns are unlikely to attack us.  Everything else is gravy. 

I don't care what our government does as long as they do it decently and as long as it's paid for (taxes). 

I see the problems you listed above as simply a matter of appropriate funding and priority.  Which has nothing to do with the basic structure of government and necessary government revenue. 

Me bitching about not getting what we deserve for the amount of taxes is a waste of time.  I either work within that system or I blow it up.  Or I should  STFU.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2799]

Also Go Liberals.  Go to Hell, Dems.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Do you happen to have the results of previous polls? It'd be interesting to see the change in participation/results over time.

When I first joined Shaggy in 2010, the CR was comprised of mostly very, very conservative posters. I tried to participate a little bit in discussions (but mostly avoided) because all I'd get in response were memes and dumb gifs. It seems like the turning point began in 2016 when others became engaged, and then most conservatives bailed out during the switch to Surly. 

I went to HornFans the other day -- it actually still exists. That political forum, albeit not very active, was very hard right.

[hobbes2702 12847]

23 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I think it's funny he didn't even include leftist/progressive.

Yup. I’m not sure what to pick in this poll.

[Neonmoon 38127]

7 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Why are you for more taxes?

I assume this question was directed at me. I didn't see it.

Why am I for more taxes? 

I believe in helping people. I was blessed to be born in the United States. I am one of the luckiest people on earth because I was born in the United States. I don't fear bombs exploding down the street. I don't fear cartels kidnapping my children. I don't fear famine or disease. I don't fear banks losing my money. I don't fear a lack of food, energy, or medicine. I am by no means "rich" compared to many on this board or in our society, but I am blessed. 

If I have to contribute more so others have access to medicine, education, or security.

I am fine with that.

I am fine with receiving less so others can have more. 

The more everyone contributes, the more everyone receives. More healthcare, more education, more roads, more advancements. 

 

[babysdaddy 2718]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

For me it's not about how much we pay in taxes, but rather what we get for them.  

Right now I feel like we're just paying money into a black hole.  What are we getting for our taxes?  The infrastructure is a mess, the healthcare system is a mess, the education system is a mess, the social safety net has almost completely disappeared leading to a homelessness epidemic, and the list goes on.

Instead we have military spending that outpaces the next 10 countries combined, militarized police, and a government run by big money special interests.

'Merca!

 

Totally agree.  Plus they (all of government) are so wheels off on spending and running such massive deficits I don't see the point of throwing more into the blackhole.  I mean this year the annual deficit is approaching $2 trillion and the economy has, thus far, massively outperformed expectations.  

[hobbes2702 12847]

22 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Lol the fiscally conservative and social liberal line always cracks me up

Fiscally conservative means we ignore the problems that got us here.

It takes money to fix issues guys. 

21 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol at having so many “definitely not a Democrat, but will never pull lever for another Pub”.    

Nuance is hard.

[Zepol87 9172]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Fiscally conservative means we ignore the problems that got us here.

It takes money to fix issues guys. 

Nuance is hard.

I just hear I still want to be republican but I don’t like being associated with trumpers now, that’s always been the Republican Party those dipshits just got louder 

[wildcat09 29260]

17 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

I just hear I still want to be republican but I don’t like being associated with trumpers now, that’s always been the Republican Party those dipshits just got louder 

To be fair, looking around at the state of the Democratic party in Texas...I get not wanting to be associated with Democrats either.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I don't fear bombs exploding down the street. I don't fear cartels kidnapping my children. I don't fear famine or disease. I don't fear banks losing my money. I don't fear a lack of food, energy, or medicine.

By definition, you aren't allowed to be a conservative.

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Fiscally conservative means we ignore the problems that got us here.

It takes money to fix issues guys. 

Nuance is hard.

Tables are hard, nuance can be difficult.  
 

But in this case, it’s not.  I’m betting it’s people that are embarrassed of others that wear the same badge.   No difference than the R’s that don’t want to be associated with the fringe.  I know… but I think there’s like 7 of them that aren’t nazi fascist puppy killers.