Surly kids who can't get into UT

[boilerhorn 1371]

For my older kids, we started "informal" college visits after 8th grade year.  In most/all cases, the younger ones tagged along.  As a consequence, all of them got to see/feel/etc. the environments of places like Texas, Texas A&M, SMU, TCU, UTD, etc.  I recommend gettning started before junior year.

My youngest graduated HS in 2023.  Because of COVID, we did not (or could not) visit any colleges from Mar'20 - May'22.  As a result, he did not have a really good feel for any of the places - and a 2-day whirlwind visit of colleges will not often do the trick.  He narrowed his selections to Texas A&M, Purdue, and RPI, wanting to major in CS.  He did not want to go to UT.  Narrowed further to Purdue and RPI (because of the way A&M handles "freshman engineering") and ultimately chose Purdue.  We'll see how he likes that decision in February...

We were tried to nudge a little toward SMU (closer to home, smaller school, decent ECE program, strong Dallas area internships, etc), but he did not have the same feeling.  Did not want ECE and the SMU CS dept has been a little disorganized as of late.  Also, he was turned off by the fact that some of the less capable, more foolish kids from his school were going to SMU.

[boilerhorn 1371]

On 9/28/2023 at 3:22 PM, Samson's Wig said:

The only thing to understand is that we have a lot of engineers who post here, and like most engineers, they can't fathom that any other educational path has any merit. It's fucking weird, frankly, but myopia can impact anyone even if it seems like an engineer-specific trait.   The fact that 99.9% of engineers work for someone who is not an engineer has never dawned on them for some reason.

You had already received many kudos for this post, but I wanted to reinforce this.  And to say, "guilty as charged."  

There are many contributions to this.  First, engineers make decent money right out of college.  Second, most employers have very good benefits.  Third, engineering professions have relatively low unemployment rates.  Fourth, most have parents w/ technical backgrounds and we nudge them in a direction we understand.  Yes, myopia.  Edited to add: for the most part, there is a clear and calculable ROI on the cost of college.

Also, more than most other disciplines, classes in HS and college (esp. in programming) give someone a feel for what they will be doing at age 25.  High school (or even lower division college) econ, history, and english classes do not do that for a business, psych, or econ profession.  The programming and intro engineering classes do (Calc classes notwithstanding.)

Edited October 2, 2023 by boilerhorn

[texasdago 7562]

8 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Do schools still do things like "Round Up Weekend" that UT used to do (and still might do, for all I know)? I remember being 17 years old, driving to Austin with friends and no parent supervision, and partying in West Campus and sleeping on the floor of my brothers friend at Towers to get the feel for UT. And that was a common thing as a sort of pre-rush and get a feel for the campus before orientation.

That feels like an impossible thing these days, with liabilities and underage issues and how parents are much more protective. Heck, I wouldn't let my 17 year old do that.

I have great memories of my college years and, yeah, I wouldn't let my kids do half that stuff either.

[52-80 19142]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:22 PM, Samson's Wig said:

The fact that 99.9% of engineers work for someone who is not an engineer has never dawned on them for some reason.

Was this fact-checked by a liberal arts major?

[Samson's Wig 3189]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Was this fact-checked by a liberal arts major?

Nope. It was your mom.

[jimmyjazz 45877]

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

[TwiceHorn 31434]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

Yeah, I don't really agree with that post.  I'm fairly proud of the engineering degree, it was fucking hard work.  Like harder than most UT undergrads put in, by a substantial measure.

And yeah, engineers get jobs that pay well off the bat.  But it's not for everyone and I don't mean just smart/dumb.  It takes a particular aptitude to survive an engineering curriculum.

And, I recognized that I probably didn't love the engineering career path, which is why I went to law school.  I didn't think I was cut out for a technical ladder and didn't want to go into management.  What I failed to realize is that everyone is in management, regardless of job title.  And as a sort of 50/50 left/right brain person, that combination is sufficiently rare that I probably would have done pretty well as an engineer.

 

[jimmyjazz 45877]

I climbed the technical ladder essentially as far as possible, making it clear that I didn't want to go into management . . . and then I got put into management.  I probably should have just angled for the higher payday from the jump.

[52-80 19142]

10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

The aggregate mid-career earnings of engineering is still the top of the majors list. 

I get that there's variance in individual outcomes, and an engineering degree is not a guaranteed ticket to the beach earning 20%, and exaggerating things for effect.... but engineers report to engineering leads/managers, who report to directors of engineering, and so on in a cushy corporate chain.  It was a terrible attempt at a slam dunk.

[South Austin 52431]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

Not the lawyers.  There's nothing mythological about our superiority.  

10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I climbed the technical ladder essentially as far as possible, making it clear that I didn't want to go into management . . . and then I got put into management.  

So you're on the Peter Gibbons plan?

[jimmyjazz 45877]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

So you're on the Peter Gibbons plan?

Except I have people skills.  I just hate people.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:13 AM, boilerhorn said:

For my older kids, we started "informal" college visits after 8th grade year.  In most/all cases, the younger ones tagged along.  As a consequence, all of them got to see/feel/etc. the environments of places like Texas, Texas A&M, SMU, TCU, UTD, etc.  I recommend gettning started before junior year.

My youngest graduated HS in 2023.  Because of COVID, we did not (or could not) visit any colleges from Mar'20 - May'22.  As a result, he did not have a really good feel for any of the places - and a 2-day whirlwind visit of colleges will not often do the trick.  He narrowed his selections to Texas A&M, Purdue, and RPI, wanting to major in CS.  He did not want to go to UT.  Narrowed further to Purdue and RPI (because of the way A&M handles "freshman engineering") and ultimately chose Purdue.  We'll see how he likes that decision in February...

We were tried to nudge a little toward SMU (closer to home, smaller school, decent ECE program, strong Dallas area internships, etc), but he did not have the same feeling.  Did not want ECE and the SMU CS dept has been a little disorganized as of late.  Also, he was turned off by the fact that some of the less capable, more foolish kids from his school were going to SMU.

I'm not sure you are, but I wouldn't be rolling my eyes at the bolded part above. I wasn't sure I was even going to go to college. My mom was by herself, working two jobs, and I honestly wasn't sure I wanted to leave here to be on her own, regardless of the fact I knew she wanted and expected me to go to college. I rushed to apply to college, and UT was the only one I applied to...because I knew that every dumb, stupid, hateable piece of shit at my HS that I held with the utmost contempt fucking LOVED aTm. Espescially the ones that would probably never go there. And I knew I never wanted to be associated with a club that would admit idiots like them. Sometimes instincts work in your favor in that regard, well ahead of you understanding all of the ramifications. 

[BabaYaga 15286]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I climbed the technical ladder essentially as far as possible, making it clear that I didn't want to go into management . . . and then I got put into management.  I probably should have just angled for the higher payday from the jump.

[Samson's Wig 3189]

That so many engineers here can't recognize the use of hyperbole in my post to dramatize the point is a prime example of why every college student should be forced to take some liberal arts courses. It's like talking to Data from Star Trek with you people.

 

[52-80 19142]

2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I think what he was trying to say is that in most organizations, the technical and engineering minds are the coal that powers the locomotive, but rarely is a pure play engineering/technical leader going to be on the executive leadership team or board of directors (without first pivoting to a more business and management track first). The only exceptions being engineering firms, probably.

No other major has a meaningfully shorter track to BoD/CS. Each tribe have their own reporting chain to climb through. So the obvious fact that engineers power the eng train isnt some demeaning revelation.

His point was terribly made, no matter how generously interpreted.

(im not an eng)

 

[52-80 19142]

13 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

That so many engineers here can't recognize the use of hyperbole in my post to dramatize the point is a prime example of why every college student should be forced to take some liberal arts courses. It's like talking to Data from Star Trek with you people.

 

Hyperboles are built on exaggerations, which is a stretching of the truth. 

Saying something utterly dumb and obtuse does not in itself qualify as a hyperbole. 
 

[Samson's Wig 3189]

Jesus fucking Christ. I give up.

[South Austin 52431]

2 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Jesus fucking Christ. I give up.

Being a quitter is no example to set for your children.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

I'm shocked that a bunch of easily offended engineers are shitting on liberal arts classes and engaging to verbal minutia like a badger with grudge. 

If we don't get some Wapner in here soon there's going to be a bunch of actuarial hobbyists going apeshit. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[jimmyjazz 45877]

28 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

That so many engineers here can't recognize the use of hyperbole in my post to dramatize the point is a prime example of why every college student should be forced to take some liberal arts courses. It's like talking to Data from Star Trek with you people.

Yes, I never took any liberal arts courses.  Or fine arts.  You really nailed my mindset.

[Dnaguy 11912]

I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dnaguy

[Samson's Wig 3189]

2 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Thank you for both undermining the stereotype and showing those sentient bowls of pudding how to properly respond around here.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Samson's Wig

[Hefeweizen 5308]

3 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

Same except civil.  
 

Who am I kidding, I’m too dumb for thermodynamics.

[South Austin 52431]

40 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Thank you for both undermining the stereotype and showing those sentient bowls of pudding how to properly respond around here.

Sentient Bowls of Pudding is my garage band name.

[52-80 19142]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes, I never took any liberal arts courses.  Or fine arts.  You really nailed my mindset.

He’s being rhetorical. But only people with an MFA level of sophistication would get it. 

[High Plains Drifter 11024]

 

8th grade daughter informed me two years ago she will be attending Columbia. Because its the best school in NYC, and she wants to live in NYC.

 

 

[Dnaguy 11912]

3 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

8th grade daughter informed me two years ago she will be attending Columbia. Because its the best school in NYC, and she wants to live in NYC.

 

 

[Texas Jeff 1942]

14 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I think what he was trying to say is that in most organizations, the technical and engineering minds are the coal that powers the locomotive, but rarely is a pure play engineering/technical leader going to be on the executive leadership team or board of directors (without first pivoting to a more business and management track first). The only exceptions being engineering firms, probably.

I used to work for a chip company with about 3000 employees, at a satellite office.  Our CEO would visit about two times a year and give a little talk.  The best one was him describing his path from new hire engineer to CEO.

He put up an org chart of our company with all the departments and said "This is what I *thought* I was supposed to do" ... and highlighted a line going directly from the bottom to the top.

Then he said "This is what I actually did" and the next slide showed him going all over the company.  Engineering, marketing, working in the factory, supply chain, sales, back to engineering, across to marketing again, and so on.  Everything except the cafeteria.

The rest of the talk was about his different experiences with the company, but he said he could never have been CEO without first having the experience of being in all parts of the company, to see how it fit together.  If your goal is to make it to the top, it helps to have a breadth of experience, wherever you start.

[Bateshorn 9927]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:07 AM, fattyflattie said:

Had a couple of kids from my high school do that to get into UT back when it was still 10%. Thought they fixed that loophole.  The 3 closest high schools to ours were all pretty big and very poor.  Walked right into the top 10 by renting an apt. 

I’m pretty sure they fixed it. My mom’s realtor said she knew at least two families about 10-15 years ago in Westlake who basically decamped to the hunting lease in South Texas for their senior year to avoid the bloodbath for UT admissions on Westbank Drive.  At least one wasn’t much more than deer camp.  
 

That probably sounds like Heaven to half of you.  Not my bougie East Coast ass. 

[South Austin 52431]

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10226]

7 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

I used to work for a chip company with about 3000 employees, at a satellite office.  Our CEO would visit about two times a year and give a little talk.  The best one was him describing his path from new hire engineer to CEO.

He put up an org chart of our company with all the departments and said "This is what I *thought* I was supposed to do" ... and highlighted a line going directly from the bottom to the top.

Then he said "This is what I actually did" and the next slide showed him going all over the company.  Engineering, marketing, working in the factory, supply chain, sales, back to engineering, across to marketing again, and so on.  Everything except the cafeteria.

The rest of the talk was about his different experiences with the company, but he said he could never have been CEO without first having the experience of being in all parts of the company, to see how it fit together.  If your goal is to make it to the top, it helps to have a breadth of experience, wherever you start.

That or a parent who owns the company

[SydneyCarton 48051]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

I selfishly want my son to seriouisly consider UC San Diego. I don't even know what the specialize in, I assume some kind of marine stuff. Doesn't really matter. Just move to San Diego kid. 

As it relates to your post, sounds like you should move to Santa Cruz. 

[South Austin 52431]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

I selfishly want my son to seriouisly consider UC San Diego.

I was pushing UC San Diego hard, and it was on her list for a while, but for some reason has dropped off.  I have family in San Diego and I love that town.  And it's an easy direct flight on SWA.

[SydneyCarton 48051]

51 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Interestingly enough, as my family is from San Diego, my folks were telling me the stats say that inverse of what happens to cool cities is happening in San Diego. All the cultural and tastemakers and the younger demographic (18-30) are moving OUT of SD and the influx is middle aged and older. I guess it makes sense from a cost of living and real estate perspective, but that's how you turn a cool city into something like Jupiter, FL quick.

Yeah, except Florida fucking sucks, and Jupiter doesn't have La Jolla, Coronado Beach, perpetually 60-70 degree weather, and is a good school. 

I realize this is a thread about our kids, but I'm talking about my own fucking wants and desires here, sir. 

[yoladu 4090]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

pretty part of the world. Back in the 80s/90s I always knew UC Santa Cruz as the hippie school, with no grades, a banana slug for a mascot, and everyone looked like a member of Camper Van Beethoven -  Which you know, seemed pretty cool to me when i was younger.

I know a lot has changed since then. The admission standards are not outrageous, but i have no idea what the University's strengths are  or what kind of weight a degree from UC Santa Cruz has.

They break the campus into 10 distinct Colleges and as a student you associate yourself with one of them, which gives me the Hogwarts vibe.. Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Slytherin, etc.

Edited October 4, 2023 by yoladu

[yoladu 4090]

59 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Interestingly enough, as my family is from San Diego, my folks were telling me the stats say that inverse of what happens to cool cities is happening in San Diego. All the cultural and tastemakers and the younger demographic (18-30) are moving OUT of SD and the influx is middle aged and older. I guess it makes sense from a cost of living and real estate perspective, but that's how you turn a cool city into something like Jupiter, FL quick.

La Jolla is pretty distinct from San Diego itself, so hard to know how much of an impact there would be to a UCSD student there is.

UCSD is not easy to get into. San Diego St Univ would be the alternate.

[Bateshorn 9927]

39 minutes ago, yoladu said:

La Jolla is pretty distinct from San Diego itself, so hard to know how much of an impact there would be to a UCSD student there is.

UCSD is not easy to get into. San Diego St Univ would be the alternate.

University of San Diego, as I recall, has one of the prettiest campuses in the country and will offer a top student pretty good merit. 

[South Austin 52431]

26 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

University of San Diego, as I recall, has one of the prettiest campuses in the country and will offer a top student pretty good merit. 

If you're talking nonresident student, and if by "top" student you mean the valedictorian at reputable high school who invented a cure for pancreatic cancer, then yes, I think UC San Diego will offer that kid some pretty decent merit aid.

From everything I've read, UC San Diego is like the other schools in the UC system (all of which are excellent to quite good in most nationwide rankings) in that they can offer generous merit and other financial aid to California residents, but it's extremely hard for nonresidents to get that money, and most are paying full freight for nonresident tuition.  

Say what you want about California, but that state has one of best (if not the best) state university systems, and they take care of their own.  

[Dnaguy 11912]

1 hour ago, yoladu said:

pretty part of the world. Back in the 80s/90s I always knew UC Santa Cruz as the hippie school, with no grades, a banana slug for a mascot, and everyone looked like a member of Camper Van Beethoven -  Which you know, seemed pretty cool to me when i was younger.

I know a lot has changed since then. The admission standards are not outrageous, but i have no idea what the University's strengths are  or what kind of weight a degree from UC Santa Cruz has.

They break the campus into 10 distinct Colleges and as a student you associate yourself with one of them, which gives me the Hogwarts vibe.. Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Slytherin, etc.

I believe Rice does something similar as well, no?

[Ollie Slatt 289]

4 hours ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I used to fish on a river near Santa Cruz and would occasionally encounter what appeared to be UCSC students.  Based on those experiences, my impression is that UCSC students really like to do psychedelics in the woods.  

[Bateshorn 9927]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

If you're talking nonresident student, and if by "top" student you mean the valedictorian at reputable high school who invented a cure for pancreatic cancer, then yes, I think UC San Diego will offer that kid some pretty decent merit aid.

From everything I've read, UC San Diego is like the other schools in the UC system (all of which are excellent to quite good in most nationwide rankings) in that they can offer generous merit and other financial aid to California residents, but it's extremely hard for nonresidents to get that money, and most are paying full freight for nonresident tuition.  

Say what you want about California, but that state has one of best (if not the best) state university systems, and they take care of their own.  

Not UC San Diego. University of San Diego.  Private Catholic College. 

[South Austin 52431]

16 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Not UC San Diego. University of San Diego.  Private Catholic College. 

Ah, misread. My bad.

[JesusSweatDuck 17781]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:15 AM, jimmyjazz said:

Well, I have two engineering degrees and worked 20 hrs/wk on average, although most of the time it was on campus in pretty cushy jobs.  As far as my contributions, I always told them I'd pay for most of their college.  I'm not going back on my word.

Got an EE degree and worked full time as a waiter.  Was able to graduate with no debt while paying for school myself but severely sleep deprived.  I don't think that's possible now with the additional cost.

[Mantis Toboggan, MD 1501]

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 
I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.
I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

Good school, pretty area, hippy vibe. But Santa Cruz is a shithole of a city. Lots of homeless/hobos riding around on bicycles grimacing at you waiting to break into your car.

[Mantis Toboggan, MD 1501]

Anyone have any experience with LSU? Do they have any tuition discounts for Texas students? Thoughts on LSU as a school? My kids are years away, so m just curious.

[BabaYaga 15286]

The boy was already accepted to Ok State.  Just got the green light from Arkansas.  Now we have options.  Now he gets to pick one.  For the record, I think that little shit's going to be a pig.  Good for him.  Fun town.  Damn nice campus tucked away in the hills.   

[BabaYaga 15286]

1 hour ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

Anyone have any experience with LSU? Do they have any tuition discounts for Texas students? Thoughts on LSU as a school? My kids are years away, so m just curious.

Don't know any recent alums.  Seems a damn fun school.  For my likes, maybe a little "too" fun.  I'd have been a mess there.  I don't think they have tuition reciprocity like AR does?  

[Grimas 669]

Doing a trip to Ole Miss this weekend for a tour.

[tx 3 putt 76861]

4 hours ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

Anyone have any experience with LSU? Do they have any tuition discounts for Texas students? Thoughts on LSU as a school? My kids are years away, so m just curious.

Marry a Golden Girl 

[South Austin 52431]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Good for him.  Fun town.  Damn nice campus tucked away in the hills.   

Agree with this.  

Maybe we're too far removed from the old SWC rivalry, which ended shortly before my time as a Longhorn fan, but I won't have a problem if my son wants to go to Arkansas.  I'd give him up for adoption if he went to OU or aggy.