NFL Week 4

[Dahobbs 17,095]

1 minute ago, PittsburghTiger said:

10 sacks in one night. That’s crazy. 

I have never seen an offensive line play worse. And I remember Suh vs:

[Nicole44 21,941]

Jeez been sacked ten times also. I mean it’s a nightmare scenario. 

[Horn80 5,978]

Worst prime time game of year, so far?

[PittsburghTiger 6,049]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I have never seen an offensive line play worse. And I remember Suh vs:

Too soon?

[PittsburghTiger 6,049]

1 minute ago, Horn80 said:

Worst prime time game of year, so far?

In the running for sure.

[Nicole44 21,941]

4 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

10 sacks in one night. That’s crazy. 

David Carr is still processing his time with the Texans. I think he was sacked 76 times his rookie year in 2002. I mean…I think Moon and McNabb are still the clubhouse leaders tied for getting sacked 12 times in one game. Jones has a shot here…

[PittsburghTiger 6,049]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

David Carr is still processing his time with the Texans. I think he was sacked 76 times his rookie year in 2002. I mean…I think Moon and McNabb are still the clubhouse leaders tied for getting sacked 12 times in one game. Jones has a shot here…

The beating these guys take is incredible. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,049]

That game made me sleepy.

[Texzilla58 4,683]

It’s always fun to see teams truly fuck themselves with stupid contracts especially the fucking Giants. Daniel Jones $160m 4yr contract only has $81m guaranteed so it’s cheap to get out of the last two years. However if they cut him after this season he’s a devastating $69m dead cap hit in 24. Or more likely he dies on the field after taking his 138th sack. Bad place to be when your QB is having his coach throw his Surface at him on the bench after throwing a 97 yard pick six.

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

Yeah he gets sacked a lot but the great ones can make it work behind patchwork OLs. The guy isnt good. The playcalling reflects that. Lots of one read throws, dink and dunk, hey lets get some easy completions and yards so we dont look like idiots for paying this guy top dollar because he had one semi-decent season.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

8 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah he gets sacked a lot but the great ones can make it work behind patchwork OLs. The guy isnt good. The playcalling reflects that. Lots of one read throws, dink and dunk, hey lets get some easy completions and yards so we dont look like idiots for paying this guy top dollar because he had one semi-decent season.

That's ridiculous. There is no QB that would have been successful behind that line in that game. There was A gap pressure almost immediately several times. And his receivers were never open anyway. A genetic mashup of Tom Brady and Michael Vick would have still struggled. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Braff Zacklin 13,284]

10 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah he gets sacked a lot but the great ones can make it work behind patchwork OLs. The guy isnt good. The playcalling reflects that. Lots of one read throws, dink and dunk, hey lets get some easy completions and yards so we dont look like idiots for paying this guy top dollar because he had one semi-decent season.

Disagree. Very, very few QBs can operate behind patchwork OLs for extended periods.

Montana, Aikman, Manning (both but especially Peyton) and even Brady the Goat could not. However, Rodgers did for a large part of his career until it ultimately ruined him (imo) as he became a "checkdown Charlie." Same for Russell Wilson--few handled pressure better but we all see what he's become now that he's no longer quite as mobile.

I don't think Daniel Jones is very good, but it's impossible to judge him objectively because he has absolutely nothing in front of him for blocking. He is a surprisingly graceful runner but that's obviously not enough.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Braff Zacklin

[Juicy 719]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's ridiculous. There is no QB that would have been successful behind that line in that game. There was A gap pressure almost immediately several times. And his receivers were never open anyway. A genetic mashup of Tom Brady and Michael Vick would have still struggled. 

100% this. There was a MSU vs Michigan game a few years ago. Up here is is called the "please sir no more" game. Michigan had Devin Gardner at QB who was mobile, but MSU had so much pressure right up the gut there was nothing he could do. After about a quarter and a half he would just crumple to the ground before taking the hit. It was absolutely brutal to watch a QB take pressure like that. Jones took that pressure last night. 

Quote

Gardner finished 14-of-27 passing for 210 yards with an interception, and he was credited with 18 carries for minus-46 yards.

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2013/11/michigan_state_sacks_michigan_1.html

Edited October 3, 2023 by Juicy

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

4 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Disagree. Very, very few QBs can operate behind patchwork OLs for extended periods.

Montana, Aikman, Manning (both but especially Peyton) and even Brady the Goat could not. However, Rodgers did for a large part of his career until it ultimately ruined him (imo) as he became a "checkdown Charlie." Same for Russell Wilson--few handled pressure better but we all see what he's become now that he's no longer quite as mobile.

I don't think Daniel Jones is very good, but it's impossible to judge him objectively because he has absolutely nothing in front of him for blocking. He is a surprisingly graceful runner but that's obviously not enough.

I seem to remember early in Brady's career they had a lot of great line play from great players, then as the years went on you would kinda be like "who are these guys" to start the year, and they would really gel and play well together as the season went on. I look at what the Texans are currently doing with their oline issues and CJ Stroud took zero sacks on Sunday. It's probably coaching too, but i just think it helps when you have a great QB that is a great communicator and can get the line playing together.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

6 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I seem to remember early in Brady's career they had a lot of great line play from great players, then as the years went on you would kinda be like "who are these guys" to start the year, and they would really gel and play well together as the season went on. I look at what the Texans are currently doing with their oline issues and CJ Stroud took zero sacks on Sunday. It's probably coaching too, but i just think it helps when you have a great QB that is a great communicator and can get the line playing together.

If the line is "playing together," then you're not seeing what Jones saw yesterday, which is entirely the point. He had no time to throw, no open receivers, and no run game to rely upon. It doesn't matter how great the QB is or isn't, no one is succeeding in that situation.  

[Vic Mackey 46,586]

It’s always fun to see teams truly fuck themselves with stupid contracts especially the fucking Giants. Daniel Jones $160m 4yr contract only has $81m guaranteed so it’s cheap to get out of the last two years. However if they cut him after this season he’s a devastating $69m dead cap hit in 24. Or more likely he dies on the field after taking his 138th sack. Bad place to be when your QB is having his coach throw his Surface at him on the bench after throwing a 97 yard pick six.

They also tied themselves to Barkley, who is seemingly injured every year. Yes, their offense is different when he plays but that's the point. You can't count on him. The rest of the East was excited when they went all in on that average roster. You can thank Cousins and the Vikings for that. Made them think they were actually close to competing.

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

If the line is "playing together," then you're not seeing what Jones saw yesterday, which is entirely the point. He had no time to throw, no open receivers, and no run game to rely upon. It doesn't matter how great the QB is or isn't, no one is succeeding in that situation.  

So you don't think that the QB being good at reading the defense, being an elite communicator, calling out blitzers, and getting into the right plays against the correct looks has anything to do with that? Because i'm just saying, i expect that stuff from a $40m player.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Vic Mackey 46,586]

Lol

[Dahobbs 17,095]

36 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

So you don't think that the QB being good at reading the defense, being an elite communicator, calling out blitzers, and getting into the right plays against the correct looks has anything to do with that? Because i'm just saying, i expect that stuff from a $40m player.

Seattle was just beating the Giants upfront.  QBs can't magically fix that. This is just a fucking stupid take. 

 

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Seattle was just beating the Giants upfront.  QBs can't magically fix that. This is just a fucking stupid take. 

 

TIL that it's a stupid take to think a guy making $40m shouldn't suck. Let's just blame the anyone other than the guy who touches the ball on every play. Lets not read into the coach throwing his tablet at the guy. Keep dying on that Danny Dimes hill, brah.

 

This isn't Kansas. These are pro football players. You don't get to just blame the level of talent around the guy.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Dahobbs 17,095]

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

TIL that it's a stupid take to think a guy making $40m shouldn't suck. Let's just blame the anyone other than the guy who touches the ball on every play. Lets not read into the coach throwing his tablet at the guy. Keep dying on that Danny Dimes hill, brah.

 

This isn't Kansas. These are pro football players. You don't get to just blame the level of talent around the guy.

Yes, they are all pro football players and professional coaches. I'm not sure why you're giving everyone else a pass and lumping everything on the QB. He is one guy. In that game, he wasn't even close to the biggest problem the Giants had. I mean fuck, you must think Brady sucks because of his 2013 game against the Bengals. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/331006004 

or is 2010 playoff game against the Ravens

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/300110017

or 2005 vs the Chiefs

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/251127012

or 2006 vs the Dolphins

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/261210015

Or, maybe you can see the common dominator in all those games is sacks and pressure on the QB. And maybe, as someone who occasionally watches football, you'd realize that even the best QBs can't do it all without support. 

So yes, yes, your take is still stupid. Really fucking stupid. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, they are all pro football players and professional coaches. I'm not sure why you're giving everyone else a pass and lumping everything on the QB. He is one guy. In that game, he wasn't even close to the biggest problem the Giants had. I mean fuck, you must think Brady sucks because of his 2013 game against the Bengals. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/331006004 

or is 2010 playoff game against the Ravens

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/300110017

or 2005 vs the Chiefs

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/251127012

or 2006 vs the Dolphins

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/261210015

Or, maybe you can see the common dominator in all those games is sacks and pressure on the QB. And maybe, as someone who occasionally watches football, you'd realize that even the best QBs can't do it all without support. 

So yes, yes, your take is still stupid. Really fucking stupid. 

Hey dumbass. I mentioned Brady. Don't know if you noticed but he's won a lot of games with a lot of jags on his oline. Daniel Jones is a fucking jag. Stop making excuses.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

6 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Hey dumbass. I mentioned Brady. Don't know if you noticed but he's won a lot of games with a lot of jags on his oline. Daniel Jones is a fucking jag. Stop making excuses.

Jones isn't very good. Doesn't make your post any less idiotic. If the oline is playing that badly, there isn't much a QB can do. 

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Jones isn't very good. Doesn't make your post any less idiotic. If the oline is playing that badly, there isn't much a QB can do. 

Weird how the fucking Houston Texans can have a bunch of backup OL in against the Pittsburgh defense and allow zero sacks. I wonder what the difference there could be. Probably some coaching(apparently Daboll sucks at coaching now in your world), but i'll bet the fact that they have an actual NFL QB under center that knows what the fuck he is doing has a lot to do with it as well.

[Had Enough 2,021]

No way you can judge Jones after that last night.

Slide out of the pocket and hit Breida. He falls on his ass. He picks one snap off his shoes then immediately has pressure off his left side. Dodge 3 rushers, scrambles for 10+ plus and first. Holding. The pick was bad, but he and Campbell have only played 4 games together. It looked as though they weren’t on the same page. It was a bad decision no doubt.

The pressure came off the edge. It came up the middle. It was consistent and constant.

He was their leading rusher and 27-34. The RBs were 18-39.

Towards the end of the game, it may have been Aikman that said the WRs don’t even routes at full speed. That’s very odd. Never heard that said in a broadcast.

[Vic Mackey 46,586]

Seattle was just beating the Giants upfront.  QBs can't magically fix that. This is just a fucking stupid take. 
 

Except Daniel Jones has never been that good his entire NFL career. His ceiling is being extremely average at best. This isn't about one game. He's not good. He's also 1-12 in primetime games. Even Kirk Cousins laughs at that.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

14 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Seattle was just beating the Giants upfront.  QBs can't magically fix that. This is just a fucking stupid take. 
 

Except Daniel Jones has never been that good his entire NFL career. His ceiling is being extremely average at best. This isn't about one game. He's not good. He's also 1-12 in primetime games. Even Kirk Cousins laughs at that.

I never said he was good. He isn't. I don't give a shit about him. I'm just saying the problems last night weren't mainly about Jones, and the idea that a QB can just magically adjust for a terrible oline performance is laughable. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 17,095]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Weird how the fucking Houston Texans can have a bunch of backup OL in against the Pittsburgh defense and allow zero sacks. I wonder what the difference there could be. Probably some coaching(apparently Daboll sucks at coaching now in your world), but i'll bet the fact that they have an actual NFL QB under center that knows what the fuck he is doing has a lot to do with it as well.

Maybe Houston's backup OL is better? That thought occur to you? At the very least, Houston's backup oline matches up better with the Steelers than the Giants' backup oline matches up with the Seahawks. Also, yes, that was terrible coaching by the Giants. The game plan was stupid. The oline had no idea who to block. And when the oline knew who to block, it couldn't do it. A great QB wasn't going to make up for that. You're delusional if you think otherwise. 

[SpiralOut 1,787]

I don't think Jones is phenomenal or anything, but that O-line fucking sucks.  

And it ain't like Jones was being a little bitch about it.  Dude was running for first downs, not sliding, diving for extra yards.  He was out there playing to win.  

The Giants have a whole host of problems and Jones is somewhere near the bottom of that list.  Off the top of my head: missing Saquon, an O-line failing worse than Aggy under Jimbo, and receivers that look like they belong in the XFL.

[Vic Mackey 46,586]

I never said he was good. He isn't. I don't give a shit about him. I'm just saying the problems last night weren't mainly about Jones, and the idea that a QB can just magically adjust for a terrible oline performance is laughable. 

Fair enough. But i didn't really watch the game much as neither of those teams really move the needle for me. I'm curious how many of those sacks were because he didn't make quick enough reads or know where he was going with the ball.

While Jones might not have the problem last night, he's a huge problem at QB and they are going nowhere with him.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

17 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Fair enough. But i didn't really watch the game much as neither of those teams really move the needle for me. I'm curious how many of those sacks were because he didn't make quick enough reads or know where he was going with the ball.

While Jones might not have the problem last night, he's a huge problem at QB and they are going nowhere with him.

I told you what happened. His line got beat. It was instant pressure each time. No one was open. You could actually argue he was the very best player on the Giants' offense that day. 

[Brew 2,917]

21 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Fair enough. But i didn't really watch the game much as neither of those teams really move the needle for me. I'm curious how many of those sacks were because he didn't make quick enough reads or know where he was going with the ball.

While Jones might not have the problem last night, he's a huge problem at QB and they are going nowhere with him.

He was getting hit before anyone would have had a chance to make a read. When he wasn’t hit immediately, it was because he had moved out of the pocket and hadn’t been caught yet. It was terrible blocking from the line, the backs, the TE’s, etc. it wasn’t all on them though. The D gave up long plays down the sidelines that should have been stopped as well. The TD from the backup QB should have easily been stopped. The DB’s had some absolutely terrible fouls. No one on that team wanted to play by the looks of it other than DJ who isn’t good enough to carry a team anywhere. Plus, that fumble he had completely took the wind out of what little they wanted to play.

17 hours ago, Horn80 said:

Worst prime time game of year, so far?

This week may top it unless Justin Fields decides to start playing better.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

44 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Fair enough. But i didn't really watch the game much as neither of those teams really move the needle for me. I'm curious how many of those sacks were because he didn't make quick enough reads or know where he was going with the ball.

Here are a few examples below. I don't care who you have at a QB, no one would be successful under that pressure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Had Enough 2,021]

On that fumble, if they get the backside blocked, he’s making a positive play out of it. Most of the time it was the 2nd or 3rd guy that got him.

I’ll say it. There’s something there to work with. He’s had nothing but poor structure and poor Oline play since his arrival.

[Texzilla58 4,683]

Yeah he gets sacked a lot but the great ones can make it work behind patchwork OLs. The guy isnt good. The playcalling reflects that. Lots of one read throws, dink and dunk, hey lets get some easy completions and yards so we dont look like idiots for paying this guy top dollar because he had one semi-decent season.

Wrong. Seattle was pressuring from both edges and thru the inside gaps. There were no TEs or RBs chipping much so he was swamped immediately. He was rolling out some but couldn’t find receivers. We’re he a pure drop back qb he would have been sacked 20 times. The key to getting to Brady was pressure up the middle; he became pedestrian with a rush straight in his face.

[Deej 76,085]

I think Jones is mediocre at best, but that wasn't on him last night. 

[Texzilla58 4,683]

TIL that it's a stupid take to think a guy making $40m shouldn't suck. Let's just blame the anyone other than the guy who touches the ball on every play. Lets not read into the coach throwing his tablet at the guy. Keep dying on that Danny Dimes hill, brah.
 
This isn't Kansas. These are pro football players. You don't get to just blame the level of talent around the guy.

Uhh if you knew anything about football, especially in the NFL, an offense is only as good as it’s offensive line. The key to a great defense is the ability to pressure the passer with four defenders. A great o line forces a blitz which a great qb can exploit with a hot read (or in Brady’s case a unusually quick release). Seattle last night faced a shitty Oline of backups with a rotten QB who had no run game to keep them honest. Total disaster.

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

Just now, Texzilla58 said:

Uhh if you knew anything about football, especially in the NFL, an offense is only as good as it’s offensive line. The key to a great defense is the ability to pressure the passer with four defenders. A great o line forces a blitz which a great qb can exploit with a hot read (or in Brady’s case a unusually quick release). Seattle last night faced a shitty Oline of backups with a rotten QB who had no run game to keep them honest. Total disaster.

You dont get sacked 11 times and its all the fault of the OL. The dude has no awareness. You cant teach that.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

49 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

You dont get sacked 11 times and its all the fault of the OL. The dude has no awareness. You cant teach that.

You didn't watch the game. Yes, almost all of those sacks were on the oline. He avoided about 10 more and turned them into something positive. Stop being a fucking idiot. 

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

I don't get sports fans. We nitpick the greatest athletes to ever live for being scared of a moment or struggling in a certain situation. But god forbid you speak the truth about a guy who just isn't a good player. It's bad football. People are gonna be critical.

[Dahobbs 17,095]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't get sports fans. We nitpick the greatest athletes to ever live for being scared of a moment or struggling in a certain situation. But god forbid you speak the truth about a guy who just isn't a good player. It's bad football. People are gonna be critical.

No one cares that you think he sucks. He probably does. But your opinion about that game and about a QB's ability to adapt to terrible offensive line play is just objectively wrong. A different QB would not have mattered that game. A QB can't make his tackles hold up for longer than 1 seconds or make his center and guards actually block someone. Go watch those highlights. QB play wasn't the problem. 

[cmontexas 3,207]

Jones was on the sideline looking like he came out of the Bastogne Forest. His team and oline were complete trash but he wasn't able to do himself any favors either.

If he was a hockey goalie or baseball pitcher he would have been pulled and saved for a better day. I guess The Giants strategy for dealing with sports PTSD is to subject him to even more trauma. Bold strategy not sure it's going to pay off. If Eli hadnt dragged them to two lucky Super Bowls the Giants would be in the conversation with the Bears and Browns as worst NFL franchise

[SpiralOut 1,787]

4 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

You dont get sacked 11 times and its all the fault of the OL. The dude has no awareness. You cant teach that.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by SpiralOut

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

7 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

 

And? He also threw a pick 6 at the 5 yard line where if he threw the ball literally anywhere else its not a pick 6. What an inspiring guy to block for.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

11 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

No one cares that you think he sucks. He probably does. But your opinion about that game and about a QB's ability to adapt to terrible offensive line play is just objectively wrong. A different QB would not have mattered that game. A QB can't make his tackles hold up for longer than 1 seconds or make his center and guards actually block someone. Go watch those highlights. QB play wasn't the problem. 

Outside of one half of football against the Cardinals they've been outscored 114-15. QB play is absolutely the problem. And your opinion that a great QB doesn't elevate the play of those around him is objectively wrong, and is quite frankly fucking dumb. We hear athletes talk about it all the time. The great ones make everyone around them better.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Juicy 719]

It was everyone's fault. Mostly the O-Line and coaches though. When you are getting housed every fucking snap you don't run 6 step drops and long developing routes. You do a 3 step drop, or on a shotgun a throw that comes out in less than a second. Short out, slant, WR screen. Daboll and the OC hung Jones out to dry. At some point Jones should have just started throwing the ball into the feet of the OL to prevent all the negative yardage but there wasn't much else he could do but throw a long hang time hail mary as soon as he catches the snap and hoping that the WR is the one who comes down with it. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Juicy

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

 

 

 

[Texzilla58 4,683]

 
 
 

This has zero to do with anything in the game Monday night. Daniel Jones is not a good qb but his o line’s performance was as atrocious as I’ve seen in a long time. They made Seattle look like the 85 Bears. You didn’t watch the game. Fucking move on.

[Pam Cummings 9,409]

46 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

This has zero to do with anything in the game Monday night. Daniel Jones is not a good qb but his o line’s performance was as atrocious as I’ve seen in a long time. They made Seattle look like the 85 Bears. You didn’t watch the game. Fucking move on.

"Daniel Jones isnt good, but the fact that he isn't good has nothing to do with the fact that the offense he leads and is supposed to be in charge of was abysmal on monday night and plays uninspiring football in general". OK then.

[Vic Mackey 46,586]

.