Israel-Hamas war thread

[NoName 16,354]

26 minutes ago, NoName said:

 

that evacuation tweet got deleted

 

[GabrielsHorn 2,186]

 

[Ted Lange 16,110]

4 minutes ago, Viper said:

Why not include his other reply?

 

 

1 he says it's anecdotal.  2 he doesn't say how that person acquired the badge, was real, was it forged.  We nor he knows.   I'd bet there is a good probability what he originally posted is true.   But again, why not wait until you actually know to put that out there?   

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,793]

37 minutes ago, NoName said:

Lebanon

 

Time to send in Tom Bishop 

[MissingInAction 25,106]

So the reports of terrorists with visas is not true and probably meant to get the entire world shitting themselves over the same in their own back yard?

Fuck it

I'm locking down the '52.

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

 

 

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

 

Time to send Frank back in

 

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

And he is being protected by Qatar. 

And guess who just happens to, conveniently, have a campus in Qatar?

[Macklemore 2,872]

 

[TexasEd 8,067]

19 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm not sure about that.

For one thing, I don't think it's at all clear that Iran is coordinating this.  Iran supports Hamas; that's apparent.  But I don't know that Iran put Hamas up to this.

If Iran were coordinating this, it seems to me that you'd also have Hizbullah also attacking Israel from the north.  The fact that you don't see anything more than a handful of rocket attacks--something that could be put together on a very spur-of-the-moment basis--indicates to me that Hamas may have completely Leroy Jenkinsed this shit.

But for another, Israel has its hands full right now.  It still has infiltrators trying to kill Israelis in Israel. It doesn't yet have its defenses fully manned in the north.  I don't think it really wants to bite off a full-scale war against a major regional power without first securing its own situation.

 

16 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

“But what was the strategic motivation?  What’s the next move?”  As if we’re talking about Gary Kasparov and not terrorists mass murdering civilians of a country that has a million times more military might than they do.

I don’t think this was the first shoe to drop in their master plan.  They sought vengeance on people they hate, and they’re going to get wiped out now.  It wouldn’t exactly be a new paradigm for how these things go.

I think this is a larger movement led by Russian-Iranian alliance to distract and destabilize, create chaos that rogue states can take advantage of.  I think it serves Russian interests and that it could expand wider I would watch for other shoes to fall including possibly:

• Iran exerting more influence in Iraq and Syria
• Yemen and Saudi Arabia intensifying
• North Korea doing missile tests near Japan
• China demanding more control over the South China Sea

 

[Ted Lange 16,110]

6 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

 

[Viper 12,109]

More fake news being put out there

 

 

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

16 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

 

I think this is a larger movement led by Russian-Iranian alliance to distract and destabilize, create chaos that rogue states can take advantage of.  I think it serves Russian interests and that it could expand wider I would watch for other shoes to fall including possibly:

• Iran exerting more influence in Iraq and Syria
• Yemen and Saudi Arabia intensifying
• North Korea doing missile tests near Japan
• China demanding more control over the South China Sea

 

Or maybe it is just genocidal terrorists being genocidal terrorists.

[Schulz2.0 28,960]

 

[Storm the Field 5,295]

46 minutes ago, NoName said:

that evacuation tweet got deleted

 

 

[rpspeed 1,394]

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28,960]

3 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

 

 

[bolverk 29,684]

Tons and tons of disinfo swirling around Twitter. I think we should probably stick with "BREAKING NEWS" from sources who are verified journalists from reputable outlets.

 

Anyway, here's a really excellent piece discussing how Israel's security services failed on Saturday. It goes into a good amount of detail and reinforces much of the discussion in the Ukraine thread about how drones are a game changer.

Spoilering to avoid longcatting this page:

Spoiler

How Israel’s Feared Security Services Failed to Stop Hamas’s Attack
Israel’s military and espionage services are considered among the world’s best, but on Saturday, operational and intelligence failures led to the worst breach of Israeli defenses in half a century. 

Shortly before attackers from Gaza poured into Israel at dawn on Saturday, Israeli intelligence detected a surge in activity on some of the Gazan militant networks it monitors. Realizing something unusual was happening, they sent an alert to the Israeli soldiers guarding the Gazan border, according to two senior Israeli security officials.

But the warning wasn’t acted upon, either because the soldiers didn’t get it or the soldiers didn’t read it.

Shortly afterward, Hamas, the group that controls Gaza, sent drones to disable some of the Israeli military’s cellular communications stations and surveillance towers along the border, preventing the duty officers from monitoring the area remotely with video cameras. The drones also destroyed remote-controlled machine guns that Israel had installed on its border fortifications, removing a key means of combating a ground attack.

That made it easier for Hamas assailants to approach and blow up parts of the border fence and bulldoze it in several places with surprising ease, allowing thousands of Palestinians to walk through the gaps.

These operational failures and weaknesses were among a wide array of logistical and intelligence lapses by the Israeli security services that paved the way for the Gazan incursion into southern Israel, according to four senior Israeli security officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss a sensitive matter and their early assessment of what went wrong.

The brazen infiltration of more than 20 Israeli towns and army bases in that raid was the worst breach of Israel’s defenses in 50 years and shattered the nation’s sense of security. For hours, the strongest military in the Middle East was rendered powerless to fight back against a far weaker enemy, leaving villages defenseless for most of the day against squads of terrorists who killed more than 1,000 Israelis, including soldiers in their underwear; abducted at least 150 people; overran at least four military camps; and spread out across more than 30 square miles of Israeli territory.

The four officials said the success of the attack, based on their early assessment, was rooted in a slew of security failures by Israel’s intelligence community and military, including:

• Failure by intelligence officers to monitor key communication channels used by Palestinian attackers;
• Overreliance on border surveillance equipment that was easily shut down by attackers, allowing them to raid military bases and slay soldiers in their beds;
• Clustering of commanders in a single border base that was overrun in the opening phase of the incursion, preventing communication with the rest of the armed forces;
• And a willingness to accept at face value assertions by Gazan military leaders, made on private channels that the Palestinians knew were being monitored by Israel, that they were not preparing for battle.

“We spend billions and billions on gathering intelligence on Hamas,” said Yoel Guzansky, a former senior official at Israel’s National Security Council. “Then, in a second,” he added, “everything collapsed like dominoes.”

The first failure took root months before the attack, as Israeli security chiefs made incorrect assumptions about the extent of the threat that Hamas posed to Israel from Gaza.

Hamas stayed out of two fights in the past year, allowing Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller armed group in Gaza, to take on Israel alone. Last month, Hamas leadership also ended a period of rioting along the border, in an agreement brokered by Qatar, giving the impression that it was not looking for an escalation.

“Hamas is very, very restrained and understands the implications of further defiance,” said Tzachi Hanegbi, Israel’s national security adviser, in a radio interview six days before the assault.

When Israeli intelligence officials briefed senior security chiefs last week about the most urgent threats to the country’s defenses, they focused on the dangers posed by Lebanese militants along Israel’s northern border.

The challenge posed by Hamas was barely mentioned.

Hamas is deterred, the briefers said, according to one of the security officials.

In calls, Hamas operatives, who talked to one another when tapped by Israeli intelligence agents, also gave the sense that they sought to avoid another war with Israel so soon after a damaging two-week conflict in May 2021, according to two of the Israeli officials. Israeli intelligence, they said, is now looking into whether those calls were real or staged.

The next failure was operational.

Two of the officials said that the Israeli border surveillance system was almost entirely reliant on cameras, sensors and machine guns that are operated remotely.

Israeli commanders had grown overly confident in the system’s impregnability. They thought that the combination of remote surveillance and arms, barriers above ground and a subterranean wall to block Hamas from digging tunnels into Israel made mass infiltration unlikely, reducing the need for significant numbers of soldiers to be physically stationed along the border line itself.

With the system in place, the military started reducing the number of troops there, moving them to other areas of concern, including the West Bank, according to Israel Ziv, a retired major general who commanded ground forces in the south for many years, served as the head of the Israel Defense Forces’ Operations Division from 2003 to 2005 and was recently recruited into the reserves again because of the war.

“The thinning of the forces seemed reasonable because of the construction of the fence and the aura they created around it, as if it were invincible, that nothing would be able to pass it,” he said.

But the remote-control system had a vulnerability: It could also be destroyed remotely.

Hamas took advantage of that weakness by sending aerial drones to attack the cellular towers that transmitted signals to and from the surveillance system, according to the officials and also drone footage circulated by Hamas on Saturday and analyzed by The New York Times.

Without cellular signals, the system was useless. Soldiers stationed in control rooms behind the front lines did not receive alarms that the fence separating Gaza and Israel had been breached, and could not watch video showing them where the Hamas attackers were bulldozing the barricades. In addition, the barrier turned out to be easier to break through than Israeli officials had expected.

That allowed more than 1,500 Gazan fighters to surge through nearly 30 points along the border, some of them in hang-gliders that flew over the top of the barricades, and reach at least four Israeli military bases without being intercepted.

Photos shared by one of the Israeli officials showed that scores of Israeli soldiers were then shot as they slept in their dorms. Some were still wearing their underclothes.

The second operational failure was the clustering of leaders from the army’s Gaza division in a single location along the border. Once the base was overrun, most of the senior officers were killed, injured or taken hostage, according to two of the Israeli officials.

That situation, combined with the communication problems caused by the drone strikes, prevented a coordinated response. This kept anyone along the border from grasping the full breadth of the assault, including the commanders who rushed from elsewhere in Israel to launch a counterattack.

“Understanding what the picture was of the different terrorist attacks was very difficult,” said Brig. Gen. Dan Goldfuss, an Israeli commander who helped lead the counterattack.

At one point on the ground, the general encountered — by chance — a commander from another brigade. There and then, the two men decided on an ad hoc basis which villages their respective units would try to retake.

“We decided just between ourselves,” the general said. “And that’s how we went by, from one village to another.”

All of this meant it was hard, especially in the early stages, to communicate the gravity of the situation to the military high command in Tel Aviv.

As a result, no one there sensed the immediate need for a massive, rapid air cover, even as social media emerged with reports of attacks in many communities. It took hours for the air force to arrive over much of the area, even though it has bases just minutes away in flying time, according to two of the Israeli officials and survivors of the attacks.

The fallout has been catastrophic for Israel’s security, as well as potentially damaging to its reputation in the region as a reliable military partner.

Before Saturday, “Israel was an asset to many countries in the region on security issues,” Mr. Guzansky said. “The image now is that Israel is not an asset.”

The Israeli security services do not dispute the scale of their initial failure. But they say that it can be investigated only after the war ends.

“We’ll finish this,” said Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, a military spokesman, as the army attempted to regain control of the communities on Saturday.

But, he said, “You know that this will be investigated.”

 

[Ted Lange 16,110]

13 minutes ago, Viper said:

More fake news being put out there

 

 

 

Shit like that should get you de-platformed, but I doubt that troll/weirdo Elon will do it.

[wildcat09 29,355]

1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

 

Shit like that should get you de-platformed, but I doubt that troll/weirdo Elon will do it.

He pays them to do precisely that kind of shit.

[MissingInAction 25,106]

4 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Religion of peace

Poster of dumb ass shit.

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3,023]

2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Poster of dumb ass shit.

C'mon dude. Really?

I stand with Israel- what about you?

[troph 24,851]

35 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Or maybe it is just genocidal terrorists being genocidal terrorists.

maybe but the level of training, scale and coordination seems odd for hamas doing hamas things independently. and again, they knew it was a death sentence when they attacked, I get they aren't rational but this is a stretch.

 

it could be though, it could be due to saudi / israeli relations talks or it could be Russia / Iran / Hamas. I suspect it's broader than the first though the first could clearly be part of it. I just don't see Hamas doing anything without Iranian sign off which then gets it into the Russian/Iranian alliance.

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

maybe but the level of training, scale and coordination seems odd for hamas doing hamas things independently. and again, they knew it was a death sentence when they attacked, I get they aren't rational but this is a stretch.

 

it could be though, it could be due to saudi / israeli relations talks or it could be Russia / Iran / Hamas. I suspect it's broader than the first though the first could clearly be part of it. I just don't see Hamas doing anything without Iranian sign off which then gets it into the Russian/Iranian alliance.

I would not be surprised either way.

[NoName 16,354]

so much fake news out there, be careful y'all. some of it's much better than others.

+

 

[MissingInAction 25,106]

The mods are doing a great job dealing with the dumb fucks. 

Keep reporting the stupidity.

Edited October 11, 2023 by MissingInAction

[Parliament 14,260]

Does a Carrier Group have a hospital ship?  Seems Israel is gonna need that kinda help.

[Chopper 17,238]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

SIAP:

Early Intelligence Shows Iranian Leaders Surprised by Hamas Attack, U.S. Says

I was unfamiliar with the site you linked, dnyuz, so I looked it up.

Quote

Dnyuz is an Armenia-based website that rips off articles from American news outlets (including the NYT) without permission...Some 89% of Dnyuz’s 2 million monthly total visits are from referrals, over 96% of which come from Drudge, according to the analytics website SimilarWeb.

It was extremely easy to locate the original source. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html

If you don't subscribe to the NYT or don't bother to get a free sub through your library, you can easily find licensed versions of the same article and link those instead of outlaw sites linked by Drudge. Example https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-intel-indicates-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-on-israel/ar-AA1i3v5f

Still, despite the headline, the culpability of Iran comes down to whether they were directly involved in planning this particular attack, or whether they are "merely" broadly complicit.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Chopper
hopefully less bitchy

[Trey3216 15,347]

12 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Just dawned on me that if Generative AI and deepfakes needed a Proof of Concept Use Case, this is a perfect one. We are already seeing the chaos of mis/disinformation.

We've been seeing that for more than a decade.  

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3,023]

4 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Poster of dumb ass shit.

Mostly just tired of the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism running rampant in the world right now. 

It's honestly disgusting and I'm fucking sick of it. I'm not Jewish but my wife's family is.

I'm gonna call a spade a spade, these are fucking evil terrorists. Sorry if that's too brutal and honest for some.

I'll check out of this thread before I get fucking crowdsourced for supporting Israel. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Wilcox Cummingtonite

[Viper 12,109]

 

 

[Da Fino 2,783]

3 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Mostly just tired of the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism running rampant in the world right now. 

It's honestly disgusting and I'm fucking sick of it. I'm not Jewish but my wife's family is.

I'm gonna call a spade a spade, these are fucking evil terrorists. Sorry if that's too brutal and honest for some.

Can you go brave-post somewhere else? This is the news thread. Try CR, they will be impressed by your brutality and honesty. 

[DDD Dad 14,339]

16 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Mostly just tired of the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism running rampant in the world right now. 

It's honestly disgusting and I'm fucking sick of it. I'm not Jewish but my wife's family is.

I'm gonna call a spade a spade, these are fucking evil terrorists. Sorry if that's too brutal and honest for some.

I'll check out of this thread before I get fucking crowdsourced for supporting Israel. 

You won't get crowdsourced for supporting Israel.  You will if you shit post like the one that got deleted.

[InkaUtexas 25,983]

Not really news, but I did laugh. FAFO. Burning anyones flag is bitchassness. (Is that a word? Should be) 

 

[Nicole44 22,061]

This is a hard one for me to share any more thoughts outside of this post. I’m part Jewish and Lebanese on my dad’s side/English on mom’s. I like many others understand the plight of the Palestinian people and their suffering. I also understand where Israel is coming from as well. I’m not going to mess up this thread nor the one in the CR (since y’all are all busy solving world problems and pretty much mostly told me to fuck off in the Ukraine thread) but it is personal to me. It’s one thing when a government shoots off missiles or air strikes etc…and we’ve seen the tragic footage of that. It is quite another to see the bodies of murdered naked women being paraded around and spat on. I understand how people who have been oppressed will eventually fight back and with a vengeance but this other stuff is up close and personal and hard for me to process. I hurt for the innocents caught up in the middle of all this. I’m not trying to throw around judgment, btw, so I don’t need a GD lecture on Hamas Or anything else. As far as I am concerned, from articles I have read, they appeared to have been working with the Israeli government or have the appearances of doing so while all the whole time planning these attacks (yahoo and AP news were the articles I read.) I hope we learn more as to the why, what, how stuff as time goes on. hamas  may or may not have had help from many countries or may or may not have been working with a faction of Bibi’s  Israeli government or May or may not have been helped by Iran and so forth…but fuck Hamas. Period. 

my two cents isn’t really worth anything and like I said I’m not posting again in either thread so I don’t need a lecture. I don’t need a history of the shit explained to me. I read. AP, yahoo, the Guardian, Slate, so forth. Anyway, won’t post again since y’all are capable of solving all this shit like the bang up job in the Ukraine thread. Just very sad about all of this and wish there was something more I could do. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Nicole44

[Trey3216 15,347]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Not really news, but I did laugh. FAFO. Burning anyones flag is bitchassness. (Is that a word? Should be) 

 

[Hagbard Celine 10,871]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

 

I think this is a larger movement led by Russian-Iranian alliance to distract and destabilize, create chaos that rogue states can take advantage of.  I think it serves Russian interests and that it could expand wider I would watch for other shoes to fall including possibly:

• Iran exerting more influence in Iraq and Syria
• Yemen and Saudi Arabia intensifying
• North Korea doing missile tests near Japan
• China demanding more control over the South China Sea

 

the massive protests over the past several months against the neteayahu government caused hamas to miscalculate they had a perceived opening to launch an unprecdented type of attack

that was the wedge

[NoName 16,354]

22 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Mostly just tired of the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism running rampant in the world right now. 

It's honestly disgusting and I'm fucking sick of it. I'm not Jewish but my wife's family is.

I'm gonna call a spade a spade, these are fucking evil terrorists. Sorry if that's too brutal and honest for some.

I'll check out of this thread before I get fucking crowdsourced for supporting Israel. 

people are saying that this thread, in this forum, is not the place for that discussion.

instead, there is a thread in the CR is the place for it. just go to that thread instead...

 

 

[MissingInAction 25,106]

Bitchassedness is the preferred nomenclature. 

[Hagbard Celine 10,871]

welp, it was like pearl harbor.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

[statsman 5,472]

29 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I was unfamiliar with the site you linked, dnyuz, so I looked it up.

It was extremely easy to locate the original source. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html

If you don't subscribe to the NYT or don't bother to get a free sub through your library, you can easily find licensed versions of the same article and link those instead of outlaw sites linked by Drudge. Example https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-intel-indicates-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-on-israel/ar-AA1i3v5f

Still, despite the headline, the culpability of Iran comes down to whether they were directly involved in planning this particular attack, or whether they are "merely" broadly complicit.

I think it is very possible that both

-Iranian military and leadership helped plan and supported the Hamas attack

 

-There are Iranian leaders that had no idea it was going on

 that’s not a hard one to figure out, right?

[NoName 16,354]

 

[Chopper 17,238]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

I think it is very possible that both

-Iranian military and leadership helped plan and supported the Hamas attack

 

-There are Iranian leaders that had no idea it was going on

 that’s not a hard one to figure out, right?

If Iranian military helped plan and support that would most certainly be direct involvement. How is that difficult to figure out? 

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

41 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Does a Carrier Group have a hospital ship?  Seems Israel is gonna need that kinda help.

Not typically.  We only have two hospital ships.  

I have long argued that we ought to have far more.  They're former oil tankers that only cost about $200M to convert to hospital ships.  And for the most part, they go around the world providing medical services to people in areas that have suffered natural disasters or other catastrophes.  Aside from there being an obvious need for such vessels, they are hugely effective at bringing goodwill to the United States and increasing our soft power abroad.

[Ted Lange 16,110]

 

 

[NorthLoop 14,215]

How effective are those rockets? Do they have guidance on them or do they just aim them in a general direction and yell out PEW PEW! 

[texasdago 7,575]

Good God, looking at some of the past few posts about Twatter... Elon straight up ruined that platform.  What a joke.  This should accelerate the demise of the current iteration.  You simply cannot trust it.

[immamac 42,864]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

This whole DT shit is getting out of hand.

How about this mods:

In DT, you designate a thread a “news thread” and then only allow links to articles, tweets, etc. no discussion at all. Only a thread to aggregate news. Any other comments get nuked and the poster gets banned from the thread?

Y’all just want the news. Literally EVERYTHING about this situation is political. Yet I don’t see most of y’all in CR.

Amusing.

No. 

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

19 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Does anyone think his statement was unreasonable? If so, what specifically do you take issue with?

It is clearly not a prison: Israel isn’t trying to keep them in Gaza, Israel is trying to keep them out of Israel. I mean Gaza was not blockaded for at least 2 years after Israel withdrew from the land, the blockade was in response to Hamas.

2005 - disengagement leaving an open Ggaza with infrastructures to accelerate economical success, 2007 fences to protect against crazy fundamentalists.

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Or maybe it is just genocidal terrorists being genocidal terrorists.

With all due respect I think it's more than that.