Israel-Hamas war thread

[Viper 12108]

Just to be fair, it's not just the Hamas side spreading fake images (though an Israeli also debunked it)

 

 

[InkaUtexas 25907]

Well this won't end well. Turkey is one of the few countries that have a semblance of relations with Israel. 

 

[atomheartbevo 89649]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

another thread of fake images/videos

Yeah, if US Army Special Forces units (and I won't get into the whole Delta/CAG thing) were operating in Gaza, nobody would know it.  US Navy SEALs?  Sure, easy as hell to spot, just look for publishers and agents standing around looking to sign book deals with them.

[InkaUtexas 25907]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, if US Army Special Forces units (and I won't get into the whole Delta/CAG thing) were operating in Gaza, nobody would know it.  US Navy SEALs?  Sure, easy as hell to spot, just look for publishers and agents standing around looking to sign book deals with them.

And a run on Hair Gel plus slicks in the water from their insertion. 

[Parliament 14255]

And Dan Bilzerian somewhere.

[FartingMonk 3606]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, if US Army Special Forces units (and I won't get into the whole Delta/CAG thing) were operating in Gaza, nobody would know it.  US Navy SEALs?  Sure, easy as hell to spot, just look for publishers and agents standing around looking to sign book deals with them.

They went out with us on the submarine a few times.  Back then, they all wanted to join Blackwater.  Now the cool thing is book deals

[atomheartbevo 89649]

8 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Well this won't end well. Turkey is one of the few countries that have a semblance of relations with Israel. 

 

They are missing a golden opportunity to see Iran have its power diminished a great deal.  For a while they tried to both-sides the Russia/Ukraine stuff as well.

 

[Viper 12108]

29 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Well this won't end well. Turkey is one of the few countries that have a semblance of relations with Israel. 

 

Erdogan also threatened to pretty much invade Gaza and go to war with Israel

 

[atomheartbevo 89649]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I really believe there is a window of people who just started to use the internet when they were in high school or college and grad school whose teachers and profs wouldn’t accept online sources because they didn’t trust them back then and “anyone can write anything.” And there is a measurable difference in susceptibility to total online bullshit in that group as opposed to either older or younger (who grew up with the internet as the only research tool).

There's a serious problem of people who are very easy to fool, and it's hard to convince them that they've been fooled.

It's worthy of its own thread, and worthy of a very long discussion, because there's a lot going on.  It's one of those things that, if I were a sociology major, I'd want to get some grants and really dig into it (and I'm sure some have).

I've got relatives and friends that buy into stupid shit on the internet all the time, and I've thought about it, and the major factors seem to fall into these categories:

• Mental health issues (really prevalent among the Qanon crowd)
• How long they've been using the internet
  • What age did they start using the internet
• What do they use the internet for (entertainment, business/work, etc.)
• Who their friends are and what their friends send them
  • Do they actually have friends that they interact with outside of the internet, i.e. are they isolated from the real world.
• Age, education and financial status
  • Counterpoint: I know plenty of college-educated, well-off types who get sucked into stupid shit
• Where do they get their news from

It's confounding.  I know boomers who retired from the military, so much/most of their service was during the Cold War, and they will hem and haw about Ukraine, and hem and haw about Israel, even though I can tell they know that the Russians and Hamas are fucking evil as shit.  There's some "I have to be a contrarian to everybody else" bullshit going on.

Edited October 28, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Viper 12108]

Is this some kind of war crime?

 

 

[SL Xpress 7513]

7 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I really believe there is a window of people who just started to use the internet when they were in high school or college and grad school whose teachers and profs wouldn’t accept online sources because they didn’t trust them back then and “anyone can write anything.” And there is a measurable difference in susceptibility to total online bullshit in that group as opposed to either older or younger (who grew up with the internet as the only research tool).

I also think there is the very human tendency to believe what we want to believe and look for information to confirm what we "know to be true" that has nothing to do with what generation you were a part of.  

The point of propaganda is not truth. It's to put out information that buttresses the belief structure of people who want to believe in the first place, and to confuse the information space to where everything is questioned. 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

9 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

I also think there is the very human tendency to believe what we want to believe and look for information to confirm what we "know to be true" that has nothing to do with what generation you were a part of.  

The point of propaganda is not truth. It's to put out information that buttresses the belief structure of people who want to believe in the first place, and to confuse the information space to where everything is questioned. 

Confirmation bias

[statsman 5457]

I definitely have opinions, but this is a complex and awful situation with lots of conflicting angles. This is not an opinion post, but a difficult news story.  

Ramped up Israeli bombing is jeopardizing efforts to evacuate the hundreds of American citizens stranded in Gaza
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/americans-stuck-in-gaza-are-we-u-s-citizens-or-not-ffdb4ee9?st=xos4nk6m90qurzr&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

Edited October 28, 2023 by statsman

[Viper 12108]

Interesting podcast with Elan Journo on the history of the conflict

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer-show/elan-journo-america-and-israeli-palestinian-conflict/

 

 

Not sure how they intend to do this

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Viper

[atomheartbevo 89649]

7 minutes ago, Viper said:

Not sure how they intend to do this

Since Elmo is involved, it’s going to involve a partition.

[Viper 12108]

 

 

I am pro-Palestinian. Some might be surprised by this due to my recent advocacy on @X for Israel, but you shouldn’t be. 

I am anti-terrorist, not anti-Palestinian. It is not inconsistent to be pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. And my pro-Palestinian viewpoint is not a new one. My pro-Palestinian perspective began more than 30 years ago when I was introduced to the Palestinian community and their plight in the early 1990s.

I have invested millions in helping promote Palestinian economic development and peaceful coexistence. We would do a lot more if we could be confident that the funds would be used productively. 

The crisis in Gaza is largely due to a failure of leadership. The Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006 after Israel withdrew and evicted 9,000 of its own citizens from their Gazan homes. Israel withdrew from Gaza for peace. It was a small scale test of a two-state solution. 

Rather than building the Singapore of the Middle East over the last 18 years, Hamas diverted funding to build tunnels, rockets and munitions to wage terror and war in an effort to eliminate Israel and kill Jews. 

Like the Israelis, the vast majority of Palestinians want peace. They want opportunities for employment so they can earn a living wage to support and educate their families so the next generation can build a better life. 

They want peace, beauty, happiness, health and prosperity as we all do. All of that would have been possible with Gazan leadership which focused on economic development rather than terrorism. Israel and (most of) the world wanted the Gazan experiment to succeed. 

Israel simply wanted peace. Israel built a fence and created checkpoints to protect its citizens from suicide bombers and other forms of terror. The Egyptians built a concrete wall at their border with Gaza for the same reasons. The need for a fence and checkpoints is made self-evident by the catastrophic impact on Israel when the fence was breached on Oct. 7th. 

Hamas is in the business of terrorism. Hamas makes money with grift, corruption, and funding from Israel’s enemies who support Hamas to achieve their own anti-Israel objectives.  Hamas and those that support it don’t care about the Palestinians. The Palestinians are simply a tool to implement their anti-Israel and/or anti-Jew objectives. 

Like other businesses, Hamas has a corporate hierarchy where those at the top make thousands of times more than the ‘workers’ at the bottom. Hamas’ leaders have put aside hundreds of millions and even billions for themselves. 

Hamas uses their ‘culture’ of terrorism, cash, and other incentives to motivate young, brainwashed —often from youth—, radicalised militants to implement death, torture and destruction. Their ‘success’ at terrorism attracts more funding, amplifies Israel’s response, and the cycle continues. 

Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people. Hamas knew with certainty how Israel would respond to the torture, rape, beheading, and slaughter of Israeli women, children, seniors and infants on Oct. 7th. 

Hamas’ plan was to hide out in their tunnels and headquarters built under major hospitals, limit evacuations so that Palestinian citizens are exposed to the inevitable Israeli military response, and then rally the world against Israel in a globally coordinated response as innocent civilians die. 

Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas. It cannot allow its survival, as Hamas’ existence remains an existential threat. If ISIS invaded our southern border, we would do the same. We would warn civilians to evacuate and then we would go in and destroy the terrorists. We wouldn’t cease fire until they were obliterated. 

The whole situation is an incredible tragedy. While I have always hoped for a viable and peaceful two-state solution, the Gaza experiment has been an abject failure. Future efforts for statehood for the Palestinians must learn from this catastrophe. 

As always, I welcome your input, critiques and rebuttal. 

What did I get wrong?

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Send any pro Palestine idiot over seas so their voices can be heard

[Zhorn96 1773]

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

Send any pro Palestine idiot over seas so their voices can be heard

 

misreported.  It wasnt a pro-Palestine protest.  Was a protest by students of a professor who is accusing another professor of sexual harassment but also admits to keying his car, posting threatening messages online and calling him 10+ times after a court order.

 

So a he said she said clusterfuck with some psychosis involved

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

misreported.  It wasnt a pro-Palestine protest.  Was a protest by students of a professor who is accusing another professor of sexual harassment but also admits to keying his car, posting threatening messages online and calling him 10+ times after a court order.
 
So a he said she said clusterfuck with some psychosis involved

[Deej 76759]

18 minutes ago, Zhorn96 said:

So a he said she said clusterfuck with some psychosis involved

What does Tom Herman and his wife have to do with USC?

[atomheartbevo 89649]

49 minutes ago, Zhorn96 said:

but also admits to keying his car, posting threatening messages online and calling him 10+ times after a court order.

[Brisketexan 105095]

misreported.  It wasnt a pro-Palestine protest.  Was a protest by students of a professor who is accusing another professor of sexual harassment but also admits to keying his car, posting threatening messages online and calling him 10+ times after a court order.
 
So a he said she said clusterfuck with some psychosis involved

Hawt.

[TKthunder2 4989]

1 hour ago, Zhorn96 said:

misreported.  It wasnt a pro-Palestine protest.  Was a protest by students of a professor who is accusing another professor of sexual harassment but also admits to keying his car, posting threatening messages online and calling him 10+ times after a court order.

 

So a he said she said clusterfuck with some psychosis involved

That doesn’t seem like it’s worth interrupting a football game for. I could at least understand (not agree) the point of a pro Palestine protest, but this just seems odd.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

Interesting podcast with Elan Journo on the history of the conflict

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer-show/elan-journo-america-and-israeli-palestinian-conflict/

 

 

Not sure how they intend to do this

 

 

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

 

 

I am pro-Palestinian. Some might be surprised by this due to my recent advocacy on @X for Israel, but you shouldn’t be. 

I am anti-terrorist, not anti-Palestinian. It is not inconsistent to be pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. And my pro-Palestinian viewpoint is not a new one. My pro-Palestinian perspective began more than 30 years ago when I was introduced to the Palestinian community and their plight in the early 1990s.

I have invested millions in helping promote Palestinian economic development and peaceful coexistence. We would do a lot more if we could be confident that the funds would be used productively. 

The crisis in Gaza is largely due to a failure of leadership. The Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006 after Israel withdrew and evicted 9,000 of its own citizens from their Gazan homes. Israel withdrew from Gaza for peace. It was a small scale test of a two-state solution. 

Rather than building the Singapore of the Middle East over the last 18 years, Hamas diverted funding to build tunnels, rockets and munitions to wage terror and war in an effort to eliminate Israel and kill Jews. 

Like the Israelis, the vast majority of Palestinians want peace. They want opportunities for employment so they can earn a living wage to support and educate their families so the next generation can build a better life. 

They want peace, beauty, happiness, health and prosperity as we all do. All of that would have been possible with Gazan leadership which focused on economic development rather than terrorism. Israel and (most of) the world wanted the Gazan experiment to succeed. 

Israel simply wanted peace. Israel built a fence and created checkpoints to protect its citizens from suicide bombers and other forms of terror. The Egyptians built a concrete wall at their border with Gaza for the same reasons. The need for a fence and checkpoints is made self-evident by the catastrophic impact on Israel when the fence was breached on Oct. 7th. 

Hamas is in the business of terrorism. Hamas makes money with grift, corruption, and funding from Israel’s enemies who support Hamas to achieve their own anti-Israel objectives.  Hamas and those that support it don’t care about the Palestinians. The Palestinians are simply a tool to implement their anti-Israel and/or anti-Jew objectives. 

Like other businesses, Hamas has a corporate hierarchy where those at the top make thousands of times more than the ‘workers’ at the bottom. Hamas’ leaders have put aside hundreds of millions and even billions for themselves. 

Hamas uses their ‘culture’ of terrorism, cash, and other incentives to motivate young, brainwashed —often from youth—, radicalised militants to implement death, torture and destruction. Their ‘success’ at terrorism attracts more funding, amplifies Israel’s response, and the cycle continues. 

Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people. Hamas knew with certainty how Israel would respond to the torture, rape, beheading, and slaughter of Israeli women, children, seniors and infants on Oct. 7th. 

Hamas’ plan was to hide out in their tunnels and headquarters built under major hospitals, limit evacuations so that Palestinian citizens are exposed to the inevitable Israeli military response, and then rally the world against Israel in a globally coordinated response as innocent civilians die. 

Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas. It cannot allow its survival, as Hamas’ existence remains an existential threat. If ISIS invaded our southern border, we would do the same. We would warn civilians to evacuate and then we would go in and destroy the terrorists. We wouldn’t cease fire until they were obliterated. 

The whole situation is an incredible tragedy. While I have always hoped for a viable and peaceful two-state solution, the Gaza experiment has been an abject failure. Future efforts for statehood for the Palestinians must learn from this catastrophe. 

As always, I welcome your input, critiques and rebuttal. 

What did I get wrong?

 

 

So all that area is just a fucking strip of desert.  It's unlivable land unless you spend a lot of fucking money to build up the infrastructure.  The humanitarian crisis in Gaza that is happening.  It already has been happening.  The gulf oil states send them billions of dollars a year.  The money does not go to the Palestinians.  It goes directly to the same spoiled bastards the enrich themselves in the name of Allah, while they are living in mansions and banging western prostitutes and using drugs.  When Yassar Arafat died, you know the dude who was the head of the PLA.  His estimated wealth was over 50 billion dollars.  They are still trying to track where that money went.  People can blame Israel all they want for cutting off access and supplies.  But if you have 50 billion dollars and you get paid a ton of money in aid of year.  It's like 5-10 billion.  How can you not bring a strip on the coast with a border to Egypt back into the modern world.  It's simple.  Because the dudes in charge don't want to.  The leaders of Hamas live in Qatar in luxury mansions.  If the Palestinian cause went away, their money would go away.  It's just like the homeless epidemic in America.  Why would the director of Homeless services who gets paid 5 million dollars a year want to solve the homeless crisis.  If that happens, then their money goes away.

[Viper 12108]

4 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

So all that area is just a fucking strip of desert.  It's unlivable land unless you spend a lot of fucking money to build up the infrastructure.  The humanitarian crisis in Gaza that is happening.  It already has been happening.  The gulf oil states send them billions of dollars a year.  The money does not go to the Palestinians.  It goes directly to the same spoiled bastards the enrich themselves in the name of Allah, while they are living in mansions and banging western prostitutes and using drugs.  When Yassar Arafat died, you know the dude who was the head of the PLA.  His estimated wealth was over 50 billion dollars.  They are still trying to track where that money went.  People can blame Israel all they want for cutting off access and supplies.  But if you have 50 billion dollars and you get paid a ton of money in aid of year.  It's like 5-10 billion.  How can you not bring a strip on the coast with a border to Egypt back into the modern world.  It's simple.  Because the dudes in charge don't want to.  The leaders of Hamas live in Qatar in luxury mansions.  If the Palestinian cause went away, their money would go away.  It's just like the homeless epidemic in America.  Why would the director of Homeless services who gets paid 5 million dollars a year want to solve the homeless crisis.  If that happens, then their money goes away.

 

 

[BachelorTrek 2967]

8 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

So all that area is just a fucking strip of desert.  It's unlivable land unless you spend a lot of fucking money to build up the infrastructure.  The humanitarian crisis in Gaza that is happening.  It already has been happening.  The gulf oil states send them billions of dollars a year.  The money does not go to the Palestinians.  It goes directly to the same spoiled bastards the enrich themselves in the name of Allah, while they are living in mansions and banging western prostitutes and using drugs.  When Yassar Arafat died, you know the dude who was the head of the PLA.  His estimated wealth was over 50 billion dollars.  They are still trying to track where that money went.  People can blame Israel all they want for cutting off access and supplies.  But if you have 50 billion dollars and you get paid a ton of money in aid of year.  It's like 5-10 billion.  How can you not bring a strip on the coast with a border to Egypt back into the modern world.  It's simple.  Because the dudes in charge don't want to.  The leaders of Hamas live in Qatar in luxury mansions.  If the Palestinian cause went away, their money would go away.  It's just like the homeless epidemic in America.  Why would the director of Homeless services who gets paid 5 million dollars a year want to solve the homeless crisis.  If that happens, then their money goes away.

Arafat's widow & daughter live the life of luxury from those billions in Paris, France. 

[Pods 7552]

26 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

Arafat's widow & daughter live the life of luxury from those billions in Paris, France. 

I'm glad you added France to the end of that. We all would have been confused, thinking Arafat's widow and daughter live in Paris, TX.

I'm not sure you're right though.

Paris, TX would actually make more sense, since it's only about 2.5 hours from Palestine. 

[Viper 12108]

8 hours ago, Pods said:

I'm glad you added France to the end of that. We all would have been confused, thinking Arafat's widow and daughter live in Paris, TX.

I'm not sure you're right though.

Paris, TX would actually make more sense, since it's only about 2.5 hours from Palestine. 

Nah, too close to Israel. 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

 

[rpspeed 1363]

 

 

 

 

[Ted Lange 16084]

But Putin is trying to de-nazifi Ukrainian.  Imagine how stupid you have to be to believe that.  

[956 Worldwide 34705]

North Caucuses gonna North Caucuses. 
 

Dagestan has a small indigenous population of Mountain Jews (many have left to Israel).  They will likely get to experience some *Legitimate Criticism of the State of Israel* soon. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by 956 Worldwide

[956 Worldwide 34705]

Also a good reminder of how much of today’s modern political (as opposed to religious blood libel type stuff) oriented anti-semitism has its origins in Russia. Got its start at tsarist-era agitprop and has deep roots anywhere Russia has had influence.  

[Welshy 907]

[Viper 12108]

Some stuff from a nyt article

 

 

 

 

[Viper 12108]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

But Putin is trying to de-nazifi Ukrainian.  Imagine how stupid you have to be to believe that.  

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89649]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

But Putin is trying to de-nazifi Ukrainian.  Imagine how stupid you have to be to believe that.  

The people who believe it think in terms of World War II German Nazis, and not Ukrainian nationalists who believe that Ukraine is a nation, which is what Putin wants stamped out. 

That stuff in Dagestan is going to get out of control, and then 30 years from now, they'll have the Running of the Jew through their streets.

[Viper 12108]

 

 

[956 Worldwide 34705]

“Protest….” If only there existed some Russian loan word to describe an angry mob looking for Jews to kill.

[Welshy 907]

12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“Protest….” If only there existed some Russian loan word to describe an angry mob looking for Jews to kill.

Protest? Wow. 

[TKthunder2 4989]

10 minutes ago, Welshy said:

Protest? Wow. 

Seriously this is some 1984 bullshit reframing

[Newdoc 3439]

24 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“Protest….” If only there existed some Russian loan word to describe an angry mob looking for Jews to kill.

Interesting enough, the new Washington Post international news editor is some guy named Joseph Goebbels.

[Viper 12108]

Some good Twitter/Musk news

 

 

 

 

[Da Fino 2780]

56 minutes ago, Welshy said:

Protest? Wow. 

A beautiful, peaceful protest. /s

[atomheartbevo 89649]

35 minutes ago, Viper said:

Some good Twitter/Musk news

 

This could be where the SpaceX CEO is telling Musk "hey, you're fucking around and if Israel bans us, we might find out that the bans don't stop there - the US government is spending a lot of money on us and if they think we are unreliable, or worse actively helping Hamas, a group they put on the same level with ISIS, your dreams of Mars will go poof."

[Viper 12108]

Didn't know this, anyone confirm it's true?

 

 

 

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

“Protest….” If only there existed some Russian loan word to describe an angry mob looking for Jews to kill.

Arrest, and send them back to front lines on the same plane

[Hermanator 7039]

38 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Arrest, and send them back to front lines on the same plane

Why would Putin do that? He's the one brainwashing the Russians against the Jews