Israel-Hamas war thread

[Anastasis 23,475]

18 minutes ago, Bevo said:

those mostly have Western values as well. So, you can imagine that most Israelis wouldn't stand for genocide.

Clearly. 

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Are you saying Western values are inherently anti-genocide because uh

Just layered absurdity. 

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

43 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Well see. It’s kinda complicated. First you have to have the proper complexion and western orientation. 

Nah, the requirements are rather simple. You’ve got to be able to live your life without wanting to exterminate your neighbor. And you cannot elect genocidal, warring leadership. 

[Poester 109]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Not about race at all.  What have they done to deserve their own country and what kind of country would it be?

It’s easy! All you need is a defined territory, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states. Oops. Yeah, they’re fucked. 

[Brisketexan 105,154]

Nah, the requirements are rather simple. You’ve got to be able to live your life without wanting to exterminate your neighbor. And you cannot elect genocidal, warring leadership. 

1) generally true.
2) that this was posted without any irony is outstanding. Truly.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

What would the economy of a Palestinian state look like?  What would be their chief export?  Whose currency would they use?  How would they import their own food?  They've had 50 some odd years to work on these things so they shouldn't be starting from scratch.

[Hank_Hill 18,877]

40 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Nah, the requirements are rather simple. You’ve got to be able to live your life without wanting to exterminate your neighbor. And you cannot elect genocidal, warring leadership. 

Welp that rules out Israel. How many other countries we deleting today?

Edited June 8 by Hank_Hill

[Anastasis 23,475]

43 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

What would the economy of a Palestinian state look like?  What would be their chief export?  Whose currency would they use?  How would they import their own food?

You only deserve human rights if you can answer these four questions!

Try them out on the cul de sac for lulz. 

[Hank_Hill 18,877]

56 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

What would the economy of a Palestinian state look like?  What would be their chief export?  Whose currency would they use?  How would they import their own food?  They've had 50 some odd years to work on these things so they shouldn't be starting from scratch.

Agreed, Israel decimating their infrastructure and eradicating their work force would certainly make this difficult. Just like they planned it.

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You only deserve human rights if you can answer these four questions!

Try them out on the cul de sac for lulz. 

You’re right. ISIS deserves human rights. Let’s grant them statehood. 

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

Just now, Hank_Hill said:

Agreed, Israel decimating their infrastructure and eradicating their work force would certainly make this difficult. Just like they planned it.

Starting to change my mind on you. You’re less like a futureman and more like Fantana. 

[Anastasis 23,475]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

You’re right. ISIS deserves human rights. Let’s grant them statehood. 

I know it is hard. They all look alike. 

[Hank_Hill 18,877]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Starting to change my mind on you. 

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

 You’re less like a futureman and more like Fantana. 

Are you coming on to me, Rexy??

[bolverk 29,684]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

With regard to settlers, I would expect that there is a big difference between West Bank and East Jerusalem settlers - and neither group would I likely speak with or even encounter because those areas are dangerous. Also, I wouldn't interact with the religious right as I have nothing in common with them. Who I have spoken with is the mainstream population. There are supposedly 700K settlers out of 7M which is 10% of the population and IMO a fairly sizeable chunk. And you have Russian Jews and Middle Eastern Jews and African Jews who didn't grow up with our values. But most of the population, 22%, is from Western Civilization, especially the US. 2/3rds of the population is Israeli born and those mostly have Western values as well. So, you can imagine that most Israelis wouldn't stand for genocide. Now if things were peaceful that is how things would play out. But with the constant threat of violence, there is a sizeable population who would want to move the Palestinians to Egypt. But your mileage may vary on whether that is genocide.

I appreciate your thoughtful response and hope the two camps can someday live side-by-side as peaceful neighbors. You clearly would know more than me about the sentiments of everyday Jewish Israelis. But I was also talking about ethnic cleansing (not genocide) as defined by the UN.

A United Nations Commission of Experts mandated to look into violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia defined ethnic cleansing in its interim report S/25274 as "… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area." In its final report S/1994/674, the same Commission described ethnic cleansing as “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”

The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others.

The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.”

Delving into the composition of the Knesset to try and ascertain where the representatives stand (and, thus, the people's sentiments), here's the best I could come up with on the positions of the various parties, and it looks like about 50% of Israeli voters are happy with being complete dickheads to Palestinians and another 6% just want the Jewish religion to be prominent in government and/or everyday life so they ally with the dickheads.

SUPPORTS ETHNIC CLEANSING: 14.16%

• Mafdal–Religious Zionism, led by Smotrich (born in Israel), supports Palestinian expulsion. 7 seats (5.83%).
• Otzma Yehudit, led by Ben-Gvir (born in Israel), supports Palestinian expulsion. 6 seats (5.00%).
• New Hope, led by Sa'ar (born in Israel), supports Palestinian expulsion. 4 seats (3.33%).

ARGUABLY SUPPORTS ETHNIC CLEANSING (OR IS OKAY WITH IT); DEFINITELY SUPPORTS OPPRESSION: 26.66%

• Likud, led by Netanyahu (born in Israel), supports expanding settlements and opposes a two-state solution. It also promotes annexing large portions of the West Bank. 32 seats (26.66%).

SUPPORTS OPPRESSION: 9.16%

• Shas, led by Deri (born in Morocco), opposes a settlement freeze. Couldn't find a position on the two-state solution or annexation. 11 seats. (9.16%)

MOSTLY STAYS OUT OF IT BECAUSE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGIOUS STUFF BUT ALIGNS WITH FAR-RIGHT TO HOLD POWER: 5.83%

• Agudat Yisrael, led by Goldknopf (born in Israel), is sympathetic to the settlement movement. 4 seats (3.33%).
• Degel HaTorah, led by Gafni (born in Israel), has no policy on the settlement movement. 3 seats (2.50%).

 

WISHY-WASHY ON CURRENT OPPRESSION BUT ULTIMATELY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING: 42.50%

• Yesh Atid, led by Lapid (born in Israel), supports maintaining settlements but promotes a two-state solution. 24 seats (25.00%).
• Israel Resilience Party, led by Gantz (born in Israel), supports expanding settlements but supports a two-state solution. 6 seats (5.00%).
• Yisrael Beiteinu, led by Lieberman (born in the USSR), supports maintaining settlements but promotes a two-state solution with a land swap. 6 seats (5.00%).
• United Arab List, led by Abbas (born in Israel), is silent on settlements but promotes a two-state solution. 5 seats (4.17%).
• Labor, led by Golan (born in Israel), doesn't have a coherent policy on the settlements, opposes the annexation of the West Bank, and promotes a two-state solution. 4 seats (3.33%)

ARAB PARTIES THAT WANT FULL PALESTINIAN INDEPENDENCE AT 1967 BORDERS: 6.66%

• Hadash, led by Odeh (born in Israel), supports the evacuation of the settlements and promotes a two-state solution at the 1967 borders. 4 seats (3.33%).
• Ta'al, led by Tibi (born in Israel), supports the evacuation of the settlements and promotes a two-state solution at the 1967 borders. 4 seats (3.33%).

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

1 hour ago, Hank_Hill said:

Agreed, Israel decimating their infrastructure and eradicating their work force would certainly make this difficult. Just like they planned it.

 

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

You only deserve human rights if you can answer these four questions!

Try them out on the cul de sac for lulz. 

I asked a serious question.  Is there an actual answer to it?  We're not talking about human rights.  Of course they deserve that.  We're talking about statehood.  If they're going to be a country, what does their economy look like?  How are they going to run that country?  What should Israel do if another country (Palestine in this case) launches an attack on them?

This is a serious question.  If you don't have an answer, that's troubling considering they've supposedly wanted their own country for decades.  If you don't have an answer, just say so.

Edited June 9 by Aqua Buddha

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

A United Nations Commission of Experts mandated to look into violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia defined ethnic cleansing in its interim report S/25274 as "… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area." In its final report S/1994/674, the same Commission described ethnic cleansing as “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”

Do you realize the irony of you posting this quote?  First, I don’t give a shit about the UN. They’re worthless as tits on a boar. Second, I’d like you to explain how a group should react to a group like Hamas and other preceding Palestinian groups that have “a purposeful policy designed to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group (Jews) from certain geographic areas (Israel).”  

The entire debate staggers the fucking imagination. 

[Hank_Hill 18,877]

12 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

I asked a serious question.  Is there an actual answer to it?  We're not talking about human rights.  Of course they deserve that.  We're talking about statehood.  If they're going to be a country, what does their economy look like?  How are they going to run that country?  What should Israel do if another country (Palestine in this case) launches an attack on them?

This is a serious question.  If you don't have an answer, that's troubling considering they've supposedly wanted their own country for decades.  If you don't have an answer, just say so.

It isn’t Surlys job to figure out the geopolitical and economic intricacies of maintaining a small country, so actually the answer potentially not showing up here in this thread means fuck all. What a laughable argument. 

Edited June 9 by Hank_Hill

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

I asked a serious question.  Is there an actual answer to it?  We're not talking about human rights.  Of course they deserve that.  We're talking about statehood.  If they're going to be a country, what does their economy look like?  How are they going to run that country?  What should Israel do if another country (Palestine in this case) launches an attack on them?

This is a serious question.  If you don't have an answer, that's troubling considering they've supposedly wanted their own country for decades.  If you don't have an answer, just say so.

They don’t have an answer that won’t make them look foolish. That “Palestine” is going to Little Red Riding Hood itself into statehood after committing an atrocious act and starting all of this shit is fucking so braindead it’s not worth discussion. 

Edited June 9 by Rex Kramer

[Hank_Hill 18,877]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

statehood after committing an atrocious act and starting all of this shit is fucking so braindead it’s not worth discussion. 

Israel maintains statehood after committing atrocious acts and starting shit all the time? Can’t be that hard.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

17 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

It isn’t Surlys job to figure out the geopolitical and economic intricacies of maintaining a small country, so actually the answer potentially not showing up here in this thread means fuck all. What a laughable argument. 

No, I'm asking you.  You're saying they should have a country.  Fine.  What does that country look like?  How do they keep the lights on?  Keep people fed?  If you don't know, that means you're just spitting out talking points without thinking about thinking about the next step.  

"FREE PALESTINE!!!!"  Ok, they're free.  Now what?

Having your own country actually means something.  

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

1 hour ago, Hank_Hill said:

Agreed, Israel decimating their infrastructure and eradicating their work force would certainly make this difficult. Just like they planned it.

Oh, and this is a complete nonsense answer.  We literally bombed Germany and Japan to the ground.  Germany literally bombed Russia to the ground.  All three of those countries had actual economies within 10-20 years.  "Palestine" has been an imaginary thing since 1948 and what have they done?

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

15 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Israel maintains statehood after committing atrocious acts and starting shit all the time? Can’t be that hard.

You need to retake history, or just fucking watch the news, and stop hanging out with idiot college protestors. I cannot argue with this idiotic equivalency. 

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Oh, and this is a complete nonsense answer.  We literally bombed Germany and Japan to the ground.  Germany literally bombed Russia to the ground.  All three of those countries had actual economies within 10-20 years.  "Palestine" has been an imaginary thing since 1948 and what have they done?

Palestine is only interested in killing Jews. Countries from time to time capitulate and you know, do mature country-type things. 

[DixonHur 11,338]

22 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

They don’t have an answer that won’t make them look foolish. That “Palestine” is going to Little Red Riding Hood itself into statehood after committing an atrocious act and starting all of this shit is fucking so braindead it’s not worth discussion. 

Please name a country whose statehood was not the result of committing atrocities?

[Zepol87 9,188]

4 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

War. And the Hamas tactics employed when countered. What do you think is going on?  

I don’t know shit about fuck this ain’t war man. 

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

12 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Please name a country whose statehood was not the result of committing atrocities?

Please name a group whose statehood wasn’t even really on the table because of past atrocities, then commits the worst terror act in their modern history, then gets their ass whipped in a war, which’ll destroy all “leadership” personnel and gets granted statehood by a feeble-minded UN and other countries. It’s absurd. It’s not worth discussion. 

Edited June 9 by Rex Kramer

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

Just now, Zepol87 said:

I don’t know shit about fuck this ain’t war man. 

Huh. Well, maybe Hamas should surrender?  No?  Then call it whatever you like, war, annilihation, whatever. It’s justified, and there will be collateral damage, particularly with its opponent.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Huh. Well, maybe Hamas should surrender?  No?  Then call it whatever you like, war, annilihation, whatever. It’s justified, and there will be collateral damage, particularly with its opponent.

Yes, if the war is going to badly and it's "genocide," then why don't Palestine and Hamas simply surrender and end it?

[bolverk 29,684]

36 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I asked a serious question.  Is there an actual answer to it?  We're not talking about human rights.  Of course they deserve that.  We're talking about statehood.  If they're going to be a country, what does their economy look like?  How are they going to run that country?  What should Israel do if another country (Palestine in this case) launches an attack on them?

This is a serious question.  If you don't have an answer, that's troubling considering they've supposedly wanted their own country for decades.  If you don't have an answer, just say so.

Well, let's see:

Gaza's agricultural production has traditionally been based on strawberries, olives, cotton, vegetables, and dates. Israeli-imposed water restrictions have limited its production over the last 20 years. Unfortunately, the Israelis have also bulldozed innumerable olive groves.

It's located on the Mediterranean and used to have a decent port that provided access throughout the eastern Mediterranean. It has a large urban, low-wage workforce and is close to the Suez Canal, so manufacturing or final assembly of products makes sense. Unfortunately, the Israeli-imposed blockade has limited this development.

The beaches are reportedly nice, so tourism also makes some sense. Israeli-imposed travel restrictions haven't helped them develop much of a tourism sector. Lifting the land, air, and sea blockade would help.

Offshore, fishing and known oil and gas fields could be exploited within their territorial waters, but the Israelis don't allow Gazans to access those resources.

The West Bank offers numerous tourist attractions, but roadblocks and other travel restrictions don't help. It also reportedly has a surprisingly well-educated population for the Middle East. Like Gaza, agriculture has long been in its wheelhouse, with olives being its chief export. Raising livestock has also been a thing for them. Obviously, Israeli-imposed water restrictions and land seizures haven't been good for agriculture there. There are reportedly over a billion barrels of oil under the West Bank.

In sum, I'd say they have some potential to develop a relatively decent economy if conditions were to allow it. However, a 50+ year military occupation in the West Bank and a 20-year blockade of the Gaza Strip don't seem like they'd be conducive to developing a flourishing economy.

Of course, neither would having absolute fuckhead extremists in charge in Gaza that don't know how to govern. The Palestinian Authority is also corrupt as hell, but they've been able to keep the peace for the most part in the West Bank. Help them establish a government with strong institutions, and maybe they'd do alright.

[bolverk 29,684]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Do you realize the irony of you posting this quote?  First, I don’t give a shit about the UN. They’re worthless as tits on a boar. Second, I’d like you to explain how a group should react to a group like Hamas and other preceding Palestinian groups that have “a purposeful policy designed to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group (Jews) from certain geographic areas (Israel).”  

The entire debate staggers the fucking imagination. 

Have you already forgotten that the chief prosecutor for ICC is recommending the court issue an arrest warrant for Hamas's leadership for war crimes and crimes against humanity? So, yeah, no irony. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Well, let's see:

Gaza's agricultural production has traditionally been based on strawberries, olives, cotton, vegetables, and dates. Israeli-imposed water restrictions have limited its production over the last 20 years. Unfortunately, the Israelis have also bulldozed innumerable olive groves.

It's located on the Mediterranean and used to have a decent port that provided access throughout the eastern Mediterranean. It has a large urban, low-wage workforce and is close to the Suez Canal, so manufacturing or final assembly of products makes sense. Unfortunately, the Israeli-imposed blockade has limited this development.

The beaches are reportedly nice, so tourism also makes some sense. Israeli-imposed travel restrictions haven't helped them develop much of a tourism sector. Lifting the land, air, and sea blockade would help.

Offshore, fishing and known oil and gas fields could be exploited within their territorial waters, but the Israelis don't allow Gazans to access those resources.

The West Bank offers numerous tourist attractions, but roadblocks and other travel restrictions don't help. It also reportedly has a surprisingly well-educated population for the Middle East. Like Gaza, agriculture has long been in its wheelhouse, with olives being its chief export. Raising livestock has also been a thing for them. Obviously, Israeli-imposed water restrictions and land seizures haven't been good for agriculture there. There are reportedly over a billion barrels of oil under the West Bank.

In sum, I'd say they have some potential to develop a relatively decent economy if conditions were to allow it. However, a 50+ year military occupation in the West Bank and a 20-year blockade of the Gaza Strip don't seem like they'd be conducive to developing a flourishing economy.

Of course, neither would having absolute fuckhead extremists in charge in Gaza that don't know how to govern. The Palestinian Authority is also corrupt as hell, but they've been able to keep the peace for the most part in the West Bank. Help them establish a government with strong institutions, and maybe they'd do alright.

So, if Israel lifted all of those restrictions, they could have a reasonably self sufficient economy without any outside help?  (Thanks for the answer, BTW.  I didn't know most of that.)

That leads to me second question.  If they're an independent state that later attacks Israel, what should Israel do?

[Anastasis 23,475]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I asked a serious question.  Is there an actual answer to it?

...

No, I'm asking you.  You're saying they should have a country.  Fine.  What does that country look like?  How do they keep the lights on?  Keep people fed?  If you don't know, that means you're just spitting out talking points without thinking about thinking about the next step.  

For starters, under the "humanitarian pier" we rigged up sits a large natural gas reserve, Gaza marine. Time is a fucking flat circle. 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,400]

They could definitely be self sufficient if they were allowed to export production from their burgeoning defense industry. 

[bolverk 29,684]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, if Israel lifted all of those restrictions, they could have a reasonably self sufficient economy without any outside help?  (Thanks for the answer, BTW.  I didn't know most of that.)

That leads to me second question.  If they're an independent state that later attacks Israel, what should Israel do?

They'll absolutely need help, especially in rebuilding a completely demolished Gaza. I think the typical foreign aid you see going to developing countries would probably be enough in the West Bank.

If attacked, Israel should, of course, defend itself within the bounds of international law.

[Anastasis 23,475]

1 hour ago, Hank_Hill said:

Israel maintains statehood after committing atrocious acts and starting shit all the time? Can’t be that hard.

 

54 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You need to retake history, or just fucking watch the news, and stop hanging out with idiot college protestors. I cannot argue with this idiotic equivalency. 

 

The zionist movement deployed terrorism and atrocities, largely directed at the British but also towards the arab population, when it suited their geopolitical interests. It is pretty clear here who needs to retake their history coursework. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

They'll absolutely need help, especially in rebuilding a completely demolished Gaza. I think the typical foreign aid you see going to developing countries would probably be enough in the West Bank.

If attacked, Israel should, of course, defend itself within the bounds of international law.

So, they were more than able to have a fully functioning economy this time last year?

You can't say that they don't have an economy because of damage resulting from a war that they started.

Edited June 9 by Aqua Buddha

[PRONG HORN 3,146]

[Anastasis 23,475]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Oh, and this is a complete nonsense answer.  We literally bombed Germany and Japan to the ground.  Germany literally bombed Russia to the ground.  All three of those countries had actual economies within 10-20 years.  "Palestine" has been an imaginary thing since 1948 and what have they done?

Even when you think that it is going to be hard for Surly posters to come up with greater and more obvious absurdity, one of them will find a way to dig down deep in their back pocket and roll something like this out.  

[bolverk 29,684]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

So, they were more than able to have a fully functioning economy this time last year?

Who? Hamas or the Palestinian Authority? Well, it doesn't matter because the answer is the same. No.

Gaza: See blockade and fuckwit extremists who are decidedly not the technocrats needed to run a functioning government.

West Bank: See land seizures, no freedom of movement, and export restrictions.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

2 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

That's actually a really good point.

They diverted whatever food they had to the hostages because they knew they had value.

[DixonHur 11,338]

47 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Please name a group whose statehood wasn’t even really on the table because of past atrocities, then commits the worst terror act in their modern history, then gets their ass whipped in a war, which’ll destroy all “leadership” personnel and gets granted statehood by a feeble-minded UN and other countries. It’s absurd. It’s not worth discussion. 

What?  They weren't up for statehood before because of the US.  Period.

Now the support for Israel in the US is waning and so the UN is emboldened.

Should have been given statehood decades ago, and Oct. 7th would have all been avoided.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Who? Hamas or the Palestinian Authority? Well, it doesn't matter because the answer is the same. No.

Gaza: See blockade and fuckwit extremists who are decidedly not the technocrats needed to run a functioning government.

West Bank: See land seizures, no freedom of movement, and export restrictions.

So, Gaza is not capable of being a functioning country?

[Anastasis 23,475]

Just now, bolverk said:

West Bank: See land seizures, no freedom of movement, and export restrictions.

Some of these fucking snowflakes' brains would melt if they had to live the life of a typical west bank palestinian for one fucking day. Total diaper shitting would ensue. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Even when you think that it is going to be hard for Surly posters to come up with greater and more obvious absurdity, one of them will find a way to dig down deep in their back pocket and roll something like this out.  

Have you ever taken a history class?

[bolverk 29,684]

Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

So, Gaza is not capable of being a functioning country?

Yes, Gaza is fully capable.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Some of these fucking snowflakes' brains would melt if they had to live the life of a typical west bank palestinian for one fucking day. Total diaper shitting would ensue. 

If they invaded the US and cut the breasts off women, gang raped them, and then shot them in the head......

I'd blow them off the fucking map.  Lee Greenwood would even write a song about it.

Just now, bolverk said:

Yes, Gaza is fully capable.

But you said they're run by fuckwits.

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

22 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Have you already forgotten that the chief prosecutor for ICC is recommending the court issue an arrest warrant for Hamas's leadership for war crimes and crimes against humanity? So, yeah, no irony. 

You fail to see the point or are willfully ignoring it. Par for the course. 

[Anastasis 23,475]

2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Have you ever taken a history class?

Have you ever take a basic course in causal inference? 

[bolverk 29,684]

2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

But you said they're run by fuckwits.

Are you trolling?

I said they have enough resources to have an okay economy if conditions were right. Those conditions include not being run by Hamas and not having a land, sea, and air blockade.

Your big initial argument was that Palestine (West Bank plus Gaza) could never have a sufficiently functioning economy to warrant independence. I countered with a long-ass post showing that they do have economic potential.

[Aqua Buddha 14,598]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Have you ever take a basic course in causal inference? 

So, no, you haven't taken a history class.  Thanks.

[Rex Kramer 1,338]

10 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

What?  They weren't up for statehood before because of the US.  Period.

Now the support for Israel in the US is waning and so the UN is emboldened.

Should have been given statehood decades ago, and Oct. 7th would have all been avoided.

Horseshit. They could’ve had a state dozens of times over the last 75 years but they’ve been meatheadly stupid. Israel is blocking it, for VERY good reason, and we are backing them up. UN may be emboldened but they miss the big picture like the NCAA. They’ll never be granted statehood without a WWIII or a major change in their leadership and general rhetoric. 

And if they’d been granted statehood decades ago, the same 10/7 shit would’ve happened.