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Posted
23 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t know how many Hezbollah foot soldiers remain, but I doubt they could hold anything and any attempt to sting Israel will result in their deaths. They’re not able to communicate and probably scared shitless. 

They don't hold, they delay, etc. And for the hardline foot troop, non-leader type, they joined with martyrdom as a distinct possibility. It is a mistake to think they may have our same outlook on life.

Guerillas do not hold territory unless the invader does not want it or costs too much. Lots of historical examples of this. Concerning comms. There are ways around that. Lots of groups have been successful without modern comms. Sometimes it is better for them.

Can Hezbollah win? Well define winning. Can they hold Israel from taking and pacifying Lebanon? Maybe. Defeat the IDF in a batter? Nope. Shit, even if Syria decided to intercede they would be pummeled, both land and air.

Hezbollahs only real options is fire off all the rockets at once and go guerilla, or become a transient force (like the PLO) and head into Syria.

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Posted
48 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

guerrilla warfare in that environment is ideal but no electronics is damn tough to mount attacks 

im thinking idf flies a fleet of drones ahead of tanks / troops to help clear a path 

Nah, groups decentralize. Very general orders, cells operate as they can. Some will be more effective than others, but they will not defeat the IDF. 

Ukraine has shown drones are good, but they do not effectively clear a path.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Nah, groups decentralize. Very general orders, cells operate as they can. Some will be more effective than others, but they will not defeat the IDF. 

Ukraine has shown drones are good, but they do not effectively clear a path.

i have faith that idf has better drones

a swarm of mini drones and ….

Oh Hello Wildlife GIF by BBC Earth

Posted
9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Still gotta take over the falafel shop and goat pen.

 

i’m much more curious what targets they need to take by ground force 

terrorist meeting in the premie baby icu ?

Posted
9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Maybe, maybe not, but it was pretty damn funny either way.

Agreed! But my point was I hope that Israel has learned from the mistakes of the past. Previous invasions of Lebanon haven't yielded good results. So far, they're killing it going after Hezbollah leadership. It's still possible to fumble this, though, so they need to keep executing.

Posted
21 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

If I wanted to engage your bullshit, I'd go to the appropriate board and thread and do so. Why is that unreasonable, and hard for people like you to understand?

I don't want to ignore them. I want a good, informational, thread, to not be shit on by childish trolls.

Pussies are the people who coddle and indulge the behavior of vain, narcissistic, trolls who needlessly shit on things for dopamine hits.

Whining about non-CR opinions because the people behind them post in the CR? Lmao.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Whining about non-CR opinions because the people behind them post in the CR? Lmao.

 

All opinions are borderline CR to CR - that is the reason @immamac tries keeping DT for news only. As for arguing with CR personalities, my issue is that it is like arguing with attorneys - no one has time for that shit - and no one has the desire for that shit.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

There is no metric whereby Hez can do anything that could resemble winning. 

foolish believer in conventional warfare theory vs. Guerillas. They always win. They win just by surviving. You are thinking of conventional means, cities falling, postage stamps being made to celebrate some crap.

There might be a few that did not win by disappearing, most during colonialism (Mao Mao, etc.)  but they won since the target of the insurgency lost. No more theory, going to stick to the news.

Shit continues in Gaza. No hostages released today. Humanitarian conditions suck (UN), President Abbas spoke at the UN. Said generations of Palestinians in Gaza fucked.

 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

i’m much more curious what targets they need to take by ground force 

terrorist meeting in the premie baby icu ?

Kill as many as they can and block any incoming supplies. There is no building IDF can take that marks the end of it.

Posted

ISIS in Iraq is still there. They are not defeated. You have to defeat an enemy for true victory. It is why the US cannot ever win the war on extreme terrorism. Does this mean don't fight it? Fuck no. Hammer them.

But it is not victory.

What is victory over Hezbollah and Hamas in your opinion? How does Israel get there? Happy to move this to the CR so this thread can be only news.

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

ISIS in Iraq is still there. They are not defeated. You have to defeat an enemy for true victory. It is why the US cannot ever win the war on extreme terrorism. Does this mean don't fight it? Fuck no. Hammer them.

But it is not victory.

What is victory over Hezbollah and Hamas in your opinion? How does Israel get there? Happy to move this to the CR so this thread can be only news.

 

This topic would be so much better if certain posters read just one or two history books after high school.

I was trying to hammer this point home in the CR thread months ago about how defeating (perhaps destroying is a better word) terrorist organizations militarily is next to impossible for the reasons you're outlining here, in addition to some other stuff. It just doesn't sink in to some people that direct, even overwhelming force can't end every conflict.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

ISIS in Iraq is still there. They are not defeated. You have to defeat an enemy for true victory. It is why the US cannot ever win the war on extreme terrorism. Does this mean don't fight it? Fuck no. Hammer them.

But it is not victory.

What is victory over Hezbollah and Hamas in your opinion? How does Israel get there? Happy to move this to the CR so this thread can be only news.

 

These.  Those groups may not be winning, but they also are not defeated.  It's kind of like if you don't kill all cancer cells so that it never comes back -- you didn't cure your cancer.  Those cancerous cells avoid defeat simply by existing, holding out, and waiting for a later opportunity to flare up and cause serious damage.

Again, doesn't mean that you don't keep bashing them with chemo -- knocking cancer back to "just background shit" is pretty win-ish, especially when compared to "letting the cancer flourish and devastate your body."  What Israel has done with Hezbollah in the past two weeks has been incredible.  It has knocked that cancer WAY back.  But defeating Hezbollah entirely may well be impossible; that is often the case with insurgent movements that are clandestine and guerilla in nature.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Your killing of cancer cells comment is at complete odds with your persistent need to criticize how Israel conducts business in Gaza. Hamas and Hezbollah aren’t coming back in their current forms. They’re done and never to return. It may take a little more fighting particularly in Lebanon. But the two groups are very much defeated or are long on the road to total defeat.

Will groups rise up and replace them?  I’m quite certain of it. Will Iran continue to prop such groups up?  It depends on what Israel decides to do next, but probably. 

What should Israel do to win? Rex, I am on your side in the goal, just not in the methods used in Gaza. Have I said anything about the attacks in Beruit? Nope.

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

Your killing of cancer cells comment is at complete odds with your persistent need to criticize how Israel conducts business in Gaza.

I mean.....except that take is totally wrong?

I have -- FUCKING REPEATEDLY, to the point that I can only conclude that you are illiterate -- said that Israel attacking Hamas leadership and fighters is justified and good.  Same goes for Hezbollah.  And yeah, actually, the cancer fighting analogy is pretty fucking spot on here.  Because I'm all for targeted therapies -- surgical tumor removal, targeted radiation, chemo therapies that kill the cancer cells while doing as little damage to healthy cells as possible.  I have a problem with an approach of "if a little radiation is good, then LOTS of radiation is better!" as a cancer therapy.

I want Israel to fight cancer.  I don't want Israel to kill everything and everyone within 5 miles of the tumor to do so.  The fact that you cannot/refuse to see that distinction is fucked up.

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Will groups rise up and replace them?  I’m quite certain of it. Will Iran continue to prop such groups up?  It depends on what Israel decides to do next, but probably. 

And it's like you can ALMOST see the issue here.

If I spend all of my political capital, and conduct a brutal and indiscriminate campaign to "kill cancer".....and the end result is that the cancer just comes back....did I actually accomplish very much?

Israel's goal SHOULD be to kill as much of the cancer as possible to force it to the background, while at the SAME time not devastating the overall body and creating conditions for the cancer to fire back up in the future, nastier than ever.  You're so focused on how awesome it is to blast cancer cells (and in the process, taking out the entire lung) that you pay no attention to the damage caused, or the long-term prognosis created.  Think holistically, and with a long-term strategy.

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Posted
Just now, InkaUtexas said:

What should Israel do to win? Rex, I am on your side in the goal, just not in the methods used in Gaza. Have I said anything about the attacks in Beruit? Nope.

 

And this.  For fuck's sake, if Rex would take a goddamned pill, breathe, and look at the big picture, he'd realize (much to his surprise) that we generally share his goal (well, except to the extent that his goal is "exterminate all Palestinians from the Levant," which I still don't think we can take off the table for him - he says he doesn't want it....he just wants to keep doing everything possible to make it happen).  The attacks in Beirut and Lebanon have been masterful.  And yes, there's even been collateral damage, real damage, but the balance is much more favorable in those cases.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

To my point, yes, you can totally defeat organizations and have their charred remnants rise up like a phoenix and form new organizations. That absolutely will happen. So the cancer analogy is poor; it’s always going to come back and there’s no amount of tactful and precise killing that Israel can do to avoid it.

You can conduct yourself in a manner that doesn't create an entire generation of people who will become cancer/terrorists when they come of age.  "Fighting terrorism by creating more people who will be terrorists when they come of age" is a counterproductive strategy.  And I am glad to see you at least describing such a strategy as "unfortunate and tone deaf."  But take it one step further -- in the long run, a strategy like that is actually AGAINST Israel's interests.

I agree that no matter what, even if the war in Gaza had been conducted perfectly, there were always going to be future "brush fires" of terrorism and terrorist movements.  I think that what Israel has done, though, means that those will flare up like full-on forest fires.  Raging cancers, if you will, instead of isolated tumors that can easily be excised.

Oh, and Hezbollah is different in a lot of respects: its leadership is much more reachable, Israel has done a MASTERFUL job in taking that leadership out and, most importantly, it is almost a "state actor" (it is arguably a wing of the Iranian military).  It can be fought differently, squashed differently, and Israel is doing both pretty well.  But it should continue to be thoughtful and strategic if it goes forward with any serious ground invasion.  Letting yourself get sucked into a situation where you take needless casualties, become enraged, and start leveling civilian areas indiscriminately, unnecessarily turns the war against Hezbollah into Gaza 2: Super Shitty Boogaloo.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I’m not going to opine on what has occurred in Gaza because I’m still forming an opinion here.

Yes, we all get it by now. You have absolutely no moral compass. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

Impossible.  Because Palestinians are inherently savages.  The only way to deal with them is to kill them.

FIF the conclusion that you didn't finish.

When you say it's impossible to deal with Palestinians without all of them turning into terrorists, those are the exact things you are saying.  They are inherently terrorists.  And thus, the only rational response is to kill them all.

Posted
1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

?  Really?  Hamas is self-contained on your land. Hezbollah is in another country and can move somewhat freely (until recently) to the north, east and northeast. They’re a much more formidable opponent. 

Perhaps you missed the part where material Hamas leadership is in Qatar.  That's what I was referring to.

I agree that Hezbollah was technically more formidable . . . but the things that made them formidable (significant weapons systems) also made them more vulnerable.  The more you become like a regular military, the easier you are to blow up.

Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Perhaps you missed the part where material Hamas leadership is in Qatar.  That's what I was referring to.

I agree that Hezbollah was technically more formidable . . . but the things that made them formidable (significant weapons systems) also made them more vulnerable.  The more you become like a regular military, the easier you are to blow up.

And if you blow them up you get to take over their chain of falafel stands. That is the true victory here.

And Rex, I don't think Hamas' leadership within Gaza is easy to get to. Otherwise the IDF would have already done it. Since they could not they are bombing the shit out of it. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

And if you blow them up you get to take over their chain of falafel stands. That is the true victory here.

Why everyone can't just fucking chill and be happy making and eating delicious falafel and baba ganoush and maqlubeh and pita and hummus and shakshuka....FFS, people.  Chill, revel in the fact that y'all all make delicious grub, pull up a chair, and enjoy.

Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Why everyone can't just fucking chill and be happy making and eating delicious falafel and baba ganoush and maqlubeh and pita and hummus and shakshuka....FFS, people.  Chill, revel in the fact that y'all all make delicious grub, pull up a chair, and enjoy.

Don't forget the bad ass olives and tea. mmmmmmm, pomegranate tea with honey.

Homer Drool GIF

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It’s impossible to get rid of the leading terrorist organizations of the day and not have new ones sprout up. Because terrorists gon’ terrorist.

Shit like this is so funny, because it's always the same 3-4 posters that post absolutely pudding brained nonsense like this in this thread and then run to immamac when the "CR posters" "ruin the thread" by offering painfully obvious rebuttals like "Hey, maybe if you altered the environment that caused the terrorists to exist in the first place, then they wouldn't come back - see, for example, the IRA".

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Shit like this is so funny, because it's always the same 3-4 posters that post absolutely pudding brained nonsense like this in this thread and then run to immamac when the "CR posters" "ruin the thread" by offering painfully obvious rebuttals like "Hey, maybe if you altered the environment that caused the terrorists to exist in the first place, then they wouldn't come back - see, for example, the IRA".

"Maybe if you altered the environment that caused the terrorists to exist in the first place..." 

+

"Hezbollah has long held the destruction of Israel as a core aim (Nasrallah infamously described the country as a cancer)." 

=

Get rid of Israel if you don't want terrorists around with the stated existential reason for existance being "get rid of Israel".

Do you see how that doesn't really make sense? Especially considering that the "cake is baked" in that you have to work with the pieces as they are aligned on the chessboard today, you can't start the game over.

Posted

Sounds we leaked Israeli plans. Not cool. 
 

Translation 

The ministers of the political-security cabinet officially approved during the meeting the next phase of the operation in Lebanon.
One of the ministers asked Defense Minister Galant why a report referred to the start of the maneuver even before the discussion and official approval. Galant explained that "they had to refer to publications in foreign media".

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Impossible. 

 

12 minutes ago, MinerProphet said:

"Maybe if you altered the environment that caused the terrorists to exist in the first place..." 

+

"Hezbollah has long held the destruction of Israel as a core aim (Nasrallah infamously described the country as a cancer)." 

=

Get rid of Israel if you don't want terrorists around with the stated existential reason for existance being "get rid of Israel".

Do you see how that doesn't really make sense? Especially considering that the "cake is baked" in that you have to work with the pieces as they are aligned on the chessboard today, you can't start the game over.

Yep. There is no altering of the environment that will appease the enemies of Israel other than the destruction of the country and the death of all the Jews. 

Posted
Just now, MinerProphet said:

"Maybe if you altered the environment that caused the terrorists to exist in the first place..." 

+

"Hezbollah has long held the destruction of Israel as a core aim (Nasrallah infamously described the country as a cancer)." 

=

Get rid of Israel if you don't want terrorists around with the stated existential reason for existance being "get rid of Israel".

Do you see how that doesn't really make sense? Especially considering that the "cake is baked" in that you have to work with the pieces as they are aligned on the chessboard today, you can't start the game over.

Hezbollah exists as a direct response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Decapitating their leadership is a good thing, and Israel has been doing a good job of doing so with these targeted operations. Yet another invasion of Lebanon would likely ultimately be counterproductive.

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Posted

What I can’t understand is where exactly is Iran now that shit has gotten real and how long it will take these proxies to realize they’re just cannon fodder. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

Yep. There is no altering of the environment that will appease the enemies of Israel other than the destruction of the country and the death of all the Jews. 

Again, this is just a lazy, unserious, blanket justification for anything Israel does. It's the same kind of tepid bullshit diarrhea we had to listen to coming out of George W. Bush's mouth to justify the Iraq war.

Not a single person in this thread is saying they shouldn't go after Hezbollah, just that if their goal is to actually end that organization, doing the exact same shit that caused it to form in the first place might not be a great idea.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Good to see you’ve shifted from “this guy is clearly racist against Palestinians” to cracking dumbass jokes. 

I assure you, delicious food is never a dumbass joke.

And....there's actually a whole theological angle about "the table," it's connection to our shared humanity, sacrifice, and peace - it's a lot more than I can or should try to cover here (actual books have been written on it).  It's not as simple as "peace and love through tasty food," but....it kinda is.  For example, even for a religion/culture that I presume you despise, hospitality of the table is a central.  Of course.....much like the virtuous and foundational elements of other major faiths (e.g., Christianity, Judaism), it has taken a fucking BEATING and with respect to foreigners, observed mostly in the breach.  But, that doesn't make it any less theologically sound or important.  Just like Matthew 25:40's admonition "as you do for the least of these, you do for Me" is utterly shat upon by modern "Christianity"...which doesn't make it any less true.

So, yeah....focusing on a path where we can all break bread together is, ultimately, the only path that can produce a lasting peace.  But we are a long, long, long fucking way from that. 

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hitch said:

What I can’t understand is where exactly is Iran now that shit has gotten real and how long it will take these proxies to realize they’re just cannon fodder. 

Iran has, functionally, had their bluff called.  And they don't have shit for cards.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You’re so full of shit on multiple fronts. You are one presumptuous, bombastic blowhard.

I'd argue with that if I could.

But I'm still right about what I posted.  Broken clock being right twice a day, and all that.

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Posted
3 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

ISIS in Iraq is still there. They are not defeated. You have to defeat an enemy for true victory. It is why the US cannot ever win the war on extreme terrorism. Does this mean don't fight it? Fuck no. Hammer them.

But it is not victory.

What is victory over Hezbollah and Hamas in your opinion? How does Israel get there? Happy to move this to the CR so this thread can be only news.

 

None of us really know how to do COIN it turns out, despite however many gallons of ink we have spilled.  These groups can’t be destroyed but can be eroded down to be less existential.  The problem is that everyone has to do something they don’t want to do and have strong stomachs:

- Israel has to show a real commitment to a permanent solution that involves a state for Palestinians and an end to West Bank settlements. 
 

- The “international community” needs to ruthlessly limit what they do for Gaza— nothing beyond the absolute minimum to avoid famine and plague— until at a minimum Hamas agrees to hold elections, disarm, and renounce aims to destroy Israel. At the same time, reward better actors in WB.  The humanitarian complex is toxic where terror groups dominate, outsiders provide services and jobs and completely relieve any pressure on groups like Hamas or Hezbollah to govern beyond planning attacks. 

- Some multinational force with the authority to disarm and destroy hold-out cells has to be created to maintain security in Gaza and maybe Southern Lebanon. Peacekeepers won’t do, it has to be seek and destroy for terrorists and security for locals. 

- The U.S. and Arab nations have to be wiling to bite hard when malign actors like Iran look to arm proxies, preventing weapons shipments up to and including kinetic actions on ships and airplanes. And there has to be a complete strangulation on anyone financing these groups. And there needs to be real political costs to Israel if they refuse to play along on point one. 
 

 None of this will happen because there is significant inertia to just keep having war or punting the ball as opposed to taking any of these difficult actions. 

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Posted
Again, this is just a lazy, unserious, blanket justification for anything Israel does. It's the same kind of tepid bullshit diarrhea we had to listen to coming out of George W. Bush's mouth to justify the Iraq war.
Not a single person in this thread is saying they shouldn't go after Hezbollah, just that if their goal is to actually end that organization, doing the exact same shit that caused it to form in the first place might not be a great idea.

My comment has fuck-all to do with Israel or their actions. My point is it doesn’t matter what they do or do not do, so no change in environment is going to make a squirt of piss of a difference. I couldn’t care less if they are a country other than it gives the M.E. someone to hate other than us.
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Posted
23 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:


My comment has fuck-all to do with Israel or their actions. My point is it doesn’t matter what they do or do not do, so no change in environment is going to make a squirt of piss of a difference. I couldn’t care less if they are a country other than it gives the M.E. someone to hate other than us.

Then why are you even posting in this thread and what are we arguing about?

Posted
5 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

All opinions are borderline CR to CR - that is the reason @immamac tries keeping DT for news only. As for arguing with CR personalities, my issue is that it is like arguing with attorneys - no one has time for that shit - and no one has the desire for that shit.

How do you post “news” about this shit without putting it in the context of the geopolitics? I would argue one can’t. One can be a whiny titty baby when other posters don’t follow one’s preconceived notions about which side is “right”

 

Here’s a litmus test: if the “news” someone links or posts in this thread 100% of the time paints one side as the angel and the other side as the devil, that poster should not be crying “CR” in a thread such as this. 

Posted
23 minutes ago, statsman said:

It sounds like Israel's next move is ground forces against Hezbollah. At some point though, it needs to go after Iran's nuclear capabilities. Now is the time to strike when proxy forces are incapacitated. The current US administration may help some with intelligence but it would also probably disclose Israel's plans if they were made available because of fears of escalation. And I don't see any way the international community would get actively involved like it did with the strong embargo against Iran a decade ago. Israel is going to have to go it alone with golf claps from everyone who doesn't want a nuclear Iran.

Posted
36 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

None of us really know how to do COIN it turns out, despite however many gallons of ink we have spilled.  These groups can’t be destroyed but can be eroded down to be less existential.  The problem is that everyone has to do something they don’t want to do and have strong stomachs:

- Israel has to show a real commitment to a permanent solution that involves a state for Palestinians and an end to West Bank settlements. 
 

- The “international community” needs to ruthlessly limit what they do for Gaza— nothing beyond the absolute minimum to avoid famine and plague— until at a minimum Hamas agrees to hold elections, disarm, and renounce aims to destroy Israel. At the same time, reward better actors in WB.  The humanitarian complex is toxic where terror groups dominate, outsiders provide services and jobs and completely relieve any pressure on groups like Hamas or Hezbollah to govern beyond planning attacks. 

- Some multinational force with the authority to disarm and destroy hold-out cells has to be created to maintain security in Gaza and maybe Southern Lebanon. Peacekeepers won’t do, it has to be seek and destroy for terrorists and security for locals. 

- The U.S. and Arab nations have to be wiling to bite hard when malign actors like Iran look to arm proxies, preventing weapons shipments up to and including kinetic actions on ships and airplanes. And there has to be a complete strangulation on anyone financing these groups. And there needs to be real political costs to Israel if they refuse to play along on point one. 
 

 None of this will happen because there is significant inertia to just keep having war or punting the ball as opposed to taking any of these difficult actions. 

Yeah, this is what I mean when I say that terrorist groups ultimately have to be defeated politically, and why I've often said it's a difficult path but a feasible one. Good post, thank you.

Posted
Quote

- The U.S. and Arab nations have to be wiling to bite hard when malign actors like Iran look to arm proxies, preventing weapons shipments up to and including kinetic actions on ships and airplanes. And there has to be a complete strangulation on anyone financing these groups.

We did pretty well a decade ago with sanctions against Iran, but that coalition began showing cracks because of oil and gas. And the focus was more on slowing Iran's nuclear program than trying to end Iran's proxies. However, the financial implications of the sanctions weakened the proxies even if they weren't the target.

So, sanctions could work again to stop the proxies. But when Western countries need natural resources and profits can be made by dealing with Iran, putting together sanctions seems improbable. And I don't think very many countries are interested in escalating things in the middle east. The world, I think, is pretty satisfied with the status quo and with Russian oil and gas offline, middle east oil and gas becomes more vital to Western interests. This is especially true in the US where the administration can't afford a spike in oil and gas prices before elections. But the same could be said in Germany or the UK or a whole host of other countries at other times during the year.

So, this is a long-winded way to say that the world is fine with sanctions in theory but it won't jointly attack Iran if Iran is a bad actor. And sanctions won't happen because money and consequences.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

None of us really know how to do COIN it turns out, despite however many gallons of ink we have spilled.  These groups can’t be destroyed but can be eroded down to be less existential.  The problem is that everyone has to do something they don’t want to do and have strong stomachs:

- Israel has to show a real commitment to a permanent solution that involves a state for Palestinians and an end to West Bank settlements. 
 

- The “international community” needs to ruthlessly limit what they do for Gaza— nothing beyond the absolute minimum to avoid famine and plague— until at a minimum Hamas agrees to hold elections, disarm, and renounce aims to destroy Israel. At the same time, reward better actors in WB.  The humanitarian complex is toxic where terror groups dominate, outsiders provide services and jobs and completely relieve any pressure on groups like Hamas or Hezbollah to govern beyond planning attacks. 

- Some multinational force with the authority to disarm and destroy hold-out cells has to be created to maintain security in Gaza and maybe Southern Lebanon. Peacekeepers won’t do, it has to be seek and destroy for terrorists and security for locals. 

- The U.S. and Arab nations have to be wiling to bite hard when malign actors like Iran look to arm proxies, preventing weapons shipments up to and including kinetic actions on ships and airplanes. And there has to be a complete strangulation on anyone financing these groups. And there needs to be real political costs to Israel if they refuse to play along on point one. 
 

 None of this will happen because there is significant inertia to just keep having war or punting the ball as opposed to taking any of these difficult actions. 

Some very good points. I would like to discuss. But not news so nah.

29 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Where?

Your house? That work for you?

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