Israel-Hamas war thread

[nineliveslost 2,753]

12 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Yeah, you’d think the name in the thread title would be enough of a reminder….

[atomheartbevo 89,618]

2 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Holy shit. Israel is playing a real life game of whack-a-mole with Hezbollah leaders. Every time a new one pops up, BAM!

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,395]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Shocked he was killed in Rafah out in the open and not a tunnel

I believe the prevailing theory was that he was hiding in plain sight. 

[Armybrat 40,815]

It is fitting that he died miserably in a defeated shithole of rubble.

[Rex Kramer 1,331]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Her reaction has turned into a meme on the Israeli side, but there's so much going on with this video it that it's worth posting regardless:

 

 

Wow. Crying over a terrorist. Just a run of the mill journalist/citizen. Lol. Probably like Ana and Fantana. 

[Anastasis 23,454]

Total clown. 

[Incredulity 11,644]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Her reaction has turned into a meme on the Israeli side, but there's so much going on with this video it that it's worth posting regardless:

 

 

Her sexuality isn’t really germane to the topic at hand….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ll show myself out

[Deej 76,750]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Died alone with a drone watching him. 

Looks like student apartments off Riverside.

[Parliament 14,227]

Anyone got the address of his funeral home?  I'd like to send flowers and a card.  

[InkaUtexas 25,855]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Died alone with a drone watching him. 

I wonder if the drone had voice capacity. Would love to know what the IDF controller was saying.

And yeah, that don't look like a military tunnel. Tells me IDF has them pegged so the leaders are hiding in plain sight. Get them.

[ABSR 5,308]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

Looks like student apartments off Riverside.

He’s not getting his deposit back.

[InkaUtexas 25,855]

6 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Anyone got the address of his funeral home?  I'd like to send flowers and a card.  

Just page him.

[bolverk 29,646]

3 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

I wonder if the drone had voice capacity. Would love to know what the IDF controller was saying.

And yeah, that don't look like a military tunnel. Tells me IDF has them pegged so the leaders are hiding in plain sight. Get them.

Surprisingly, the IDF says it was more or less by chance. Since they're typically more than happy to credit, this might well be the truth. There's no reason to disbelieve them. You never know, though.

What comes next matters most.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/world/middleeast/hamas-sinwar-gaza-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.TE4.zTOc.ZVvqdXtoWqFO&smid=url-share

Will Hamas lay down their arms? I saw some speculation earlier that Sinwar's brother will likely step into his place, and that guy is said to be just as ruthless. If that's the case, will Hamas split, or are the grunts willing to keep fighting?

Of course, that might depend on what Netanyahu and his allies offer. I've seen tons of criticism from all perspectives that his government has not proposed any sort of post-war rebuild, security, and governance plans in all the negotiations that have gone on.

[InkaUtexas 25,855]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Surprisingly, the IDF says it was more or less by chance. Since they're typically more than happy to credit, this might well be the truth. There's no reason to disbelieve them. You never know, though.

What comes next matters most.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/world/middleeast/hamas-sinwar-gaza-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.TE4.zTOc.ZVvqdXtoWqFO&smid=url-share

Will Hamas lay down their arms? I saw some speculation earlier that Sinwar's brother will likely step into his place, and that guy is said to be just as ruthless. If that's the case, will Hamas split, or are the grunts willing to keep fighting?

Of course, that might depend on what Netanyahu and his allies offer. I've seen tons of criticism from all perspectives that his government has not proposed any sort of post-war rebuild, security, and governance plans in all the negotiations that have gone on.

It is a good time to beef up the PA and see if they can be reasonable.  If there are 10% hard core hold outs it continues.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Total clown. 

 

Sorry for your loss

[SL Xpress 7,513]

The path to power for ambitious Palestinians is going to remain hate towards the occupying Jews and calling for martyrs. Anyone making peace with Israel is going to be painted as weak and a traitor. Recent events are making Hamas, Hezbollah and by extension Iran less effective in prosecuting their anti Israeli behavior, but the underlying motivations and cultural identities persist. It doesn't take a majority of Palestinians wanting to fight Israel with their last breath to create an effective armed opposition. It takes a relatively small percentage - say 10% - being more hardcore than anyone else where everyone around them goes along with their agenda because to not do so places their family and social standing at risk. Also, outside funding is necessary, but there's no shortage of wealthy benefactors who would like to make Israel uncomfortable for a variety of reasons. They may not have the spigot Iran has had, but they've got enough to arm the next generation. 

Even if this results in some kind of short term peace, it's not going to change the overall calculus. But making your enemies less capable has its benefits, and Israel certainly has done that. Sinwar is a big one, obviously, but the overall campaign has been impressive from the standpoint of disemboweling Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. It has required a level of ruthlessness that is off putting to many people around the world, but without that ruthlessness there's a good chance it wouldn't have been nearly as effective. 

I'm interested to see how effective this conflict is at pushing the two state solution rhetoric to a more successful conclusion. I do not believe a two state solution is sustainable. IMO it simply leads to a more effective platform for Palestinians to make Israel's existence more precarious. But there's a new impetus in sympathy to what the Palestinian people have undergone. I'm interested to see what comes of it. 

[Homercles 10,205]

^^ What’s this rational take shit?

On a side note, tangentially related to topic at hand…seems a few B2’s obliterated some seriously hardened bunkers in Yemen that the Houthi’s were using to store weapons in.  I’d imagine we had intelligence that a significant stock of Iranian SRBM’s were stored there and timing was sending a message to ‘carefully consider your next move with Israel’.  

Speculation is swirling that they may have dropped MOPs, 30,000lbs of bunker busting freedom.  You only use those limited, specialized assets for critical targets…if so, I’d hope a significant portion of Iran’s primary means of involving itself with Israel/Palestine and intimidating the ME (missiles) just went kaboom.  

I’d like to think that this is related to the THAAD deployment as a means to attenuate responses by both Israel and Iran. 

[InkaUtexas 25,855]

CNN reporting Hamas is going on TV. Announcement is expected to be there will be no hostage release until Israel completely leaves Gaza.

1- IDF ain't doing that.

2- Why does Hamas, who says they speak for all Palestinians, never say shit about the West Bank?

 

[Frank Drebin 5,654]

16 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Died alone with a drone watching him. 

[Rex Kramer 1,331]

3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

I'm interested to see how effective this conflict is at pushing the two state solution rhetoric to a more successful conclusion. I do not believe a two state solution is sustainable. IMO it simply leads to a more effective platform for Palestinians to make Israel's existence more precarious. But there's a new impetus in sympathy to what the Palestinian people have undergone. I'm interested to see what comes of it. 

It won’t be at all effective. Israel had zero incentive on October 6th to pursue a two state solution. And now Palestinians are negotiating from the exact opposite of a position of strength. The entire topic is a contrived farce.  It absolutely leads to a more effective platform to make their existence more precarious. Israel doesn’t feel one bit of pressure from the world’s Palestinian sympathy, and it absolutely should not. 

[Born to Run 6,569]

16 hours ago, Deej said:

Looks like student apartments off Riverside.

Guessing you haven't ventured over to Riverside in 15 years?

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

21 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

T&Ps to Anastasis and Fantana

Why would I be against this? Kill every one of those terrorist fucks. Obsession noted!

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

17 hours ago, Armybrat said:

It is fitting that he died miserably in a defeated shithole of rubble.

It would have been way cooler if he had thrown his severed arm at the drone.

[Armybrat 40,815]

Hope he’s enjoying his 72 cloned virgins….

 

 

[Brisketexan 105,046]

21 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why would I be against this? Kill every one of those terrorist fucks. Obsession noted!

Seriously.....I doubt that a single person who has posted on this thread has shed a single tear over this murderous asshole's death.  The repeated false equivalency of "the Palestinian people are being force-fed a shit sandwich, that's bad" meaning "I SUPPORT HAMAS!" is fucking bullshit, at least re the denizens of this board.  Yeah, there are plenty of useful idiot protestor types in NYC or whatnot who do so -- and they're idiotic dipshits.  But for THIS audience, it's a bullshit play.

This approach, however, continues to trouble me:

2 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

It won’t be at all effective. Israel had zero incentive on October 6th to pursue a two state solution. And now Palestinians are negotiating from the exact opposite of a position of strength. The entire topic is a contrived farce.  It absolutely leads to a more effective platform to make their existence more precarious. Israel doesn’t feel one bit of pressure from the world’s Palestinian sympathy, and it absolutely should not. 

....so....say the last part.  How do you want or expect this to end?  Because unequivocally ruling out a two state solution, in connection with Israel's current approach to Gaza and the WB, sure as shit looks like advocacy for total and complete ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the levant.

[Foosters 17,820]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The repeated false equivalency of "the Palestinian people are being force-fed a shit sandwich, that's bad" meaning "I SUPPORT HAMAS!" is fucking bullshit, at least re the denizens of this board.  Yeah, there are plenty of useful idiot protestor types in NYC or whatnot who do so -- and they're idiotic dipshits.  But for THIS audience, it's a bullshit play.

This thread follows a pretty simple formula:

1) Post details a Hamas loss

2) The same 3 posters run here to respond and call out by name the 2-3 posters that they think will be saddened by the news.

Been this way for several months now.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

This thread follows a pretty simple formula:

1) Post details a Hamas loss

2) The same 3 posters run here to respond and call out by name the 2-3 posters that they think will be saddened by the news.

Been this way for several months now.

 

My condolences

[Foosters 17,820]

2 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

My condolences

for noting your obsession with other posters?

Thanks, I guess.

[Vegas64 673]

Israel, which can now add Sinwar’s death to its recent string of victories, will interpret Sinwar’s death as a vindication of its decisions both to a) not do another deal with him and b) proceed with a ground operation in Rafah (where they eventually found him) despite all the international pressure earlier this year.

Gotta say, when you are right, you are right and in hindsight, folks oughta give a little credit to not caving to international pressure and doing a dirty job that needed to be done.

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

Nobody is pressuring Israel not to deal with Hamas, lmao

[ChickenSandwich 9,824]

"Entry into Rafah is a huge mistake, I've studied the maps"

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

53 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Nobody is pressuring Israel not to deal with Hamas, lmao

 

If you're complaining about civilian casualties, when Hamas is using them as human shields, you're pressuring Israel not to deal with Hamas. If you're bemoaning damage to infrastructure, when Hamas is tunneling under schools and using aid money to build bunkers under hospitals, you're pressuring Israel not to deal with Hamas. If you're advocating for a cease fire, when Hamas never ceased firing, you're pressuring Israel not to deal with Hamas.

Collectively, it's time for the West to grow up. This isn't a classroom, or a courtroom, and we're not dealing with rational trustworthy entities that you can assume are acting in good faith. No more idealism, no more naivete. Want to end this war and save the most civilians from death and displacement? Allow the good guys to win. No more escalation management, no more fey politicians with their "hands on the throttle". Kill the bad guys, and their enablers, and win.

No more indulging those amongst us with the "best intentions". The West is in a world war, and it's adversaries don't play by the rules, don't act in good faith, and only respond to strength. It is time to see our situation for what it is. It is time to be strong.

Edited October 18 by MagicSoccerSpray

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

Trenchant, and proves my point. You should return to the cloakroom, your childishness fits there.

[Anastasis 23,454]

1 minute ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

your childishness fits there.

LOFL. No mirrors in your world, huh dipshit. 

3 hours ago, Foosters said:

This thread follows a pretty simple formula:

1) Post details a Hamas loss

2) The same 3 posters run here to respond and call out by name the 2-3 posters that they think will be saddened by the news.

Been this way for several months now.

We have to wait until 5am I guess for Prong to show up and the dipshit trifecta hits. 

[Anastasis 23,454]

3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why would I be against this? Kill every one of those terrorist fucks. Obsession noted!

Some posters apparently have a hard time drawing distinction between the response to combatants with their heads hollowed out and small children and other non combatants with emptied out brain boxes. 

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We have to wait until 5am I guess for Prong to show up and the dipshit trifecta hits. 

Might have to wait a few more weeks on that one. And probably a little while for Rex, too.

In actual news:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-sees-opportunity-potentially-end-israel-iran-fighting-for-while-2024-10-18/

I saw this earlier but I don't think any details have been forthcoming, and Biden was pretty vague. Who knows if it's just empty words or not.

Quote

BERLIN, Oct 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden said on Friday there was an opportunity to deal with Israel and Iran in a way that potentially ends their conflict in the Middle East for a while.

Speaking to reporters at the end of a visit to Berlin, Biden also said he has an understanding of how and when Israel was going to retaliate against missile attacks by Iran. He declined to elaborate.

 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Some posters apparently have a hard time drawing distinction between the response to combatants with their heads hollowed out and small children and other non combatants with emptied out brain boxes. 

 

Where is your derision for the terrorists that built their tunnel beneath those kids schools? That took aid money from their hospitals to train suicide bombers and to build bunkers and bombs? That stole water pipes and made rockets from them? You're just a simpleton who's too caught up in cynicism, and aimless post-modern defiance, to see who the bad guys really are. But hey, it's easier to be swayed by wHaT aBoUt TeH cHiLdReNz!1! Fucking Moron.

Edited October 18 by MagicSoccerSpray

[Brian Fantana 6,677]

yOu LoVe tHe teRRoRisTs!!!!

In actual news:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/18/israel-iran-hamas-war-news-gaza-lebanon/

Quote

The death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar offers Israel “a significant window of opportunity” to seek “the return of the hostages and the elimination of Hamas,” Israeli President Isaac Herzog said in a statement Friday. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to discuss the implications of Sinwar’s death during a meeting with the heads of Israel’s security establishment Friday.

Top U.S. officials are renewing calls to pursue an end to the war in Gaza after Israel’s announcement that its troops killed Sinwar. President Joe Biden, speaking in Berlin, said he has urged Netanyahu to “also make this moment an opportunity to seek a path to peace, a better future in Gaza without loss.” Secretary of State Antony Blinken is expected to arrive in Israel in the coming days.

Hamas on Friday made its first public acknowledgment of Sinwar’s death, vowing in a statement that its cause would continue. “Hamas is a liberation movement led by people looking for freedom and dignity, and this cannot be eliminated,” it said. Senior Hamas official Khalil al-Hayya said in an address Friday that hostages would not be returned until the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.

The hostages, al-Hayya said, “will not return to you unless you stop the aggression on Gaza, pull out and release our prisoners in occupation prisons.”

U.S. officials said Sinwar was the “chief obstacle” to a truce, but two diplomats familiar with the cease-fire and hostage-release negotiations said Netanyahu has repeatedly obstructed a deal since June by placing new demands on a framework proposed by Biden.

This all sounds like neither Hamas nor Bibi is budging on anything. In fact, it sounds like negotiations are getting worse and worse and we suck at facilitating them. Time to serve up more suffering for the civvys!!

[Brisketexan 105,046]

13 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Where is your derision for the terrorists that built their tunnel beneath those kids schools? That took aid money from their hospitals to train suicide bombers and to build bunkers and bombs? That stole water pipes and made rockets from them? You're just a simpleton who's too caught up in cynicism, and aimless post-modern defiance, to see who the bad guys really are. But hey, it's easier to be swayed by wHaT aBoUt TeH cHiLdReNz!1! Fucking Moron.

I think there has been plenty of derision for Hamas and its war crimes in hiding among civilians.

Query: if one has derision for a party that commits the war crime of hiding among civilians (as one should), is it then okay to ALSO have derision for the counterparty using that war crime to excuse relatively indiscriminate attacks on such sites in ways that actually increase, as opposed to minimize, civilian casualties?

TLDR; is it not possible to conclude that both parties have committed wrongful acts in the same conflict, without resorting to or needing any analysis of which party's cause is the most just?  As in "it doesn't matter if the Palestinian people have been wronged historically, that doesn't excuse war crimes, and it doesn't matter if the Israeli people were wronged on October 7th, that doesn't excuse war crimes?"

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

relatively indiscriminate attacks

Relative to what? Relative to firing unguided rockets into cities? Relative to suicide bombing?

 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

indiscriminate attacks on such sites in ways that actually increase, as opposed to minimize, civilian casualties?

What evidence do you have for indiscriminate attacks, aside from terrorist propaganda, and western pearl-clutching? Hamas murdered and kidnapped hundred of civilians, and then hid them underneath schools, hospitals, and civilian housing, while firing missiles and attacking cities throughout. Explain, specifically, how any military is supposed to combat that, without causing collateral damage.

Edited October 18 by MagicSoccerSpray

[Brisketexan 105,046]

What evidence do you have for indiscriminate attacks, aside from terrorist propaganda, and western pearl-clutching? Hamas murdered and kidnapped hundred of civilians, and then hid them underneath schools, hospitals, and civilian housing, while firing missiles and attacking cities throughout. Explain, specifically, how any military is supposed to combat that, without causing collateral damage.

Without causing ANY collateral damage? They aren’t. Without using munitions that level whole blocks? Yeah, they can manage that.

And I’m thinking you don’t really want to compare Israel’s activity to Hamas and Hezbollah’s purposeful terrorist attacks on civilian targets…that’s not exactly the benchmark you’ll want to hold up. Nobody here thinks that’s ok.

[Captainant 27,620]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

We have to wait until 5am I guess for Prong to show up and the dipshit trifecta hits. 

He's still on his racism and personal attacks time out, I believe

[Anastasis 23,454]

Just now, Captainant said:

He's still on his racism and personal attacks time out, I believe

He should have been banned just for posting his stupid Twitter feed. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Without using munitions that level whole blocks? Yeah, they can manage that.

 

No they can't, no one can manage that. No military, regardless of technological superiority, can dig out a dedicated, committed, enemy hiding amongst civilians, in urban combat, without committing overwhelming firepower. The US couldn't in Fallujah or Ramadi, the Syrians couldn't in Aleppo, the Russians couldn't in Grozny or Mariupol, and the Israelis can't in Gaza and Southern Lebanon/Beirut. You're holding the Israeli to a standard that is impossible, isn't realistic, and has never been met in military history. And that's with the Israeli's possessing world standard urban warfare technology, intelligence, and combat experience. If they could have, they would have.

 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Edited October 19 by MagicSoccerSpray

[Anastasis 23,454]

4 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Where is your derision for the terrorists

Plenty. But I reserve my most critical comments for the terrorist organizations in the levant region that we fund and arm with american taxpayer dollars while running interference from the podium at State. 

Edited October 19 by Anastasis

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And I’m thinking you don’t really want to compare Israel’s activity to Hamas and Hezbollah’s purposeful terrorist attacks on civilian targets…that’s not exactly the benchmark you’ll want to hold up. Nobody here thinks that’s ok.

I'm not comparing anything. You said "excuse relatively indiscriminate attacks on such sites". Relative to what?

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Plenty. But I reserve my most critical comments for the terrorist organizations in the levant region that we fund and arm with american taxpayer dollars while running interference from the podium at State. 

 

Anything to rationalize car bombing, kidnappings, and suicide bombings I guess. You're a real post-modern piece of shit.

[Anastasis 23,454]

Just now, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Anything to rationalize car bombing, kidnappings, and suicide bombings I guess. You're a real post-modern piece of shit.

I've been called a lot of things but post-modern doesnt come close to making the top 10. I am not sure that you really know what the words mean, but am certain that you do not know how to apply them even if you did. I embrace certain universal truths, among them the intrinsic value of human life. It is your post modern worldview that allows you to justify an ethnic cleansing operation while it plays out with simple and child like rationalizations. 

[atomheartbevo 89,618]