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Posted
29 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah, this is what I mean when I say that terrorist groups ultimately have to be defeated politically, and why I've often said it's a difficult path but a feasible one. Good post, thank you.

One of the only places this has happened in the past 40 years, and I know this board will hate this example, is El Salvador. The FMLN and the Military signed accords. Within 2 elections the FMLN had power. They did not keep it, and now the country is kind of back to a dictatorship with a growing economy and tackled rampant crime.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I’ve asked several times and zero response. It’s a very important question. 

They are not going anywhere Rex. So here are the options. Status quo. Some sort of peace. Ethnic Cleansing.

 

Posted

I’m sure why you’d question brisket. He said they didn’t have any cards. That link is over a month old and clearly from a biased source. 

A card you can’t play isn’t a card at all.
Let’s say Iran could prepare….and deliver…1-2 nukes to Israel. How do you think that ends for Iran? Israel has dozens. Iran is gone. Every city in Iran is obliterated. There is no Iran anymore.
So, no. They don’t have any cards they can play.
Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 


A card you can’t play isn’t a card at all.
Let’s say Iran could prepare….and deliver…1-2 nukes to Israel. How do you think that ends for Iran? Israel has dozens. Iran is gone. Every city in Iran is obliterated. There is no Iran anymore.
So, no. They don’t have any cards they can play.

 

if Regime gives zero fucks since all those virgins are waiting, do they care?

8 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Figured someone would respond that way as it’s really the only logical move. Israel won’t allow it to happen.  

Which one? Those are options.

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Posted
12 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

I understand the pessimism, but this has led to the destruction of the instrument that Iran used to protect itself. Without Hezbollah and Hamas, and with crappy air defenses, Iran is totally vulnerable to an air assault on, for example, Iran's entire nuclear program. If Israel were ever to strike Iran's nuclear program, now would be the time. And if Iran tried to do anything about it, it could lead to a lack of arms for the replacements of Hezbollah and Hamas for many years. Meanwhile, Lebanon and Syria can finally rid themselves of their largest impediments to democracy. Not saying that it will happen, but it could happen, which we haven't been able to say for a long, long time. If democracies did develop, which is doubtful, Israel would find itself on a new road to peace in the region.

I do not believe Syria will ever have a democracy in my lifetime, any more than I feel Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain, or any number of other Arab Spring countries. I feel like it's silly to aspire to. I had high hopes for Tunisia, but they've been dashed.

First there would need to be some kind of reinterpretation of the Koran. I don't think that's achievable accept in an authoritarian state with a single ruler who can help encourage a clerical school of thought more amenable to democracy. Or there would need to be a completely secular rule a la Kemal style with the military in charge of bringing about a coup any time the Islamists take power. 

But a grass roots democratic movement is doomed to be taken over by Islamists who mandate the application and enforcement of Sharia law.

I always felt it was a massive mistake to declare establishing democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq as chief aims of those wars. 

I don't even think of it as pessimism, although I understand why someone else would see it that way. The Palestinians were displaced. It's seen as an injustice in the Arab and Pan Muslim world. More than that, it's not just seen as an injustice, but as a symbol of the Muslim world's impotence that they haven't been able to do anything about it. If only they were ruled by a Caliphate under a united banner. There will always be plenty of aspirants for that position. 

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Posted

 

speech

Spoiler

Netanyahu addresses the Iranian people:

 

“I speak a lot about the leaders of Iran. Yet at this pivotal moment, I want to address you, the people of Iran. I want to do so directly, without filters, without middlemen. Every day, you see a regime that subjugates you make fiery speeches about defending Lebanon, defending Gaza. Yet every day, that regime plunges our region deeper into darkness and deeper into war.

Every day, their puppets are eliminated. Ask Mohammed Dev. Ask Nasrallah. There is nowhere in the Middle East Israel cannot reach. There is nowhere we will not go to protect our people and protect our country.

With every passing moment, the regime is bringing you, the noble Persian people, closer to the abyss. The vast majority of Iranians know their regime doesn't care a whit about them. If it did care, if it cared about you, it would stop wasting 1,000,000,000 of dollars on feudal wars across the Middle East. It would start improving your lives. Imagine if all the vast money the regime wasted on nuclear weapons and foreign wars were invested in your children's education and improving your health care and building your nation's infrastructure, water, sewage, all the other things that you need.

Imagine that. But you know one simple thing. Iran's tyrants don't care about your future, but you do. When Iran is finally free, and that moment will come a lot sooner than people think, everything will be different. Our 2 ancient peoples, the Jewish people and the Persian people, will finally be at peace.

Our 2 countries, Israel and Iran, will be at peace. When that day comes, the terror network that the regime built in 5 continents will be bankrupt, dismantled. Iran will thrive as never before. Global investment, massive tourism, brilliant technological innovation based on the tremendous talents that exist inside Iran. Doesn't that sound better than endless poverty, repression, and war?

From Khome to Isfahan, from Shiraz to Tiberise, there are tens of millions of good and decent people with 1,000 of years of history behind them and a brilliant future ahead of them. Don't let a small group of fanatic theocrats crush your hopes and your dreams. You deserve better. Your children deserve better. The entire world deserves better.

I know you don't support the rapists and murderers of Hamas and Hezbollah, but your leaders do. You deserve more. The people of Iran should know Israel stands with you. May we together know a future of prosperity and peace.”

 

tenor.gif

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

I do not believe Syria will ever have a democracy in my lifetime, any more than I feel Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain, or any number of other Arab Spring countries. I feel like it's silly to aspire to. I had high hopes for Tunisia, but they've been dashed.

First there would need to be some kind of reinterpretation of the Koran. I don't think that's achievable accept in an authoritarian state with a single ruler who can help encourage a clerical school of thought more amenable to democracy. Or there would need to be a completely secular rule a la Kemal style with the military in charge of bringing about a coup any time the Islamists take power. 

But a grass roots democratic movement is doomed to be taken over by Islamists who mandate the application and enforcement of Sharia law.

I always felt it was a massive mistake to declare establishing democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq as chief aims of those wars. 

I don't even think of it as pessimism, although I understand why someone else would see it that way. The Palestinians were displaced. It's seen as an injustice in the Arab and Pan Muslim world. More than that, it's not just seen as an injustice, but as a symbol of the Muslim world's impotence that they haven't been able to do anything about it. If only they were ruled by a Caliphate under a united banner. There will always be plenty of aspirants for that position. 

Support for democracy in the Arab world has steadily increased year over year, and remains very popular. Only a small percentage believe that Islam is incompatible with democracy, according to the largest public opinion surveys in the Arab world. But, of course, it doesn't really make a shit what the people want or believe, and the situation is far more complicated than that.

The reality is, allowing functional democracies in the Middle East runs counter to US interests. Excluding Israel's [very] flawed democracy, Iraq is the closest, and it leans heavily toward the "very authoritarian" side of the scale. Our past/current actions and the policies we maintain on the region, while not explicitly, effectively prohibit such a thing from ever occurring. We allow Israel to present itself a sort of beacon of democracy, and maintain the facade that we represent some sort of a bulwark against authoritarian forces, but it's basically all a lie. A functioning Middle East democracy can act autonomously against US interests, and that cannot be allowed.

Our history in the region entirely backs up that assertion, and you can bet your ass the minute Israel started acting in a way contrary to US interests, their leaders would discover what FAFO really means, really quickly. I'm not saying they're ever going to do that, but I'm just using them as an example of how shit can go south real quick for any Middle Eastern country that crosses us in the wrong way. People think that Israel is the real darling over there, but the only country that can really get away with shit like that is Saudi Arabia. For now.

At any rate, you're right, the whole world could see through the lie about Afghanistan and Iraq. It was goofy as hell to try and pretend we gave a shit about establishing democracy. I share your pessimism, albeit for different reasons it seems.

e: I will also say that there's a lot of CR in this post [and yours] and I don't give a single shit. You can't discuss this kind of thing without delving into regional geopolitics, so whoever's going to cry about that, suck my dick.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted
22 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Support for democracy in the Arab world has steadily increased year over year, and remains very popular. Only a small percentage believe that Islam is incompatible with democracy

You could have just stopped there because ALL the power in those countries is with the 25-30% small percentage that believe that.  

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

You could have just stopped there because ALL the power in those countries is with the 25-30% small percentage that believe that.  

Agreed, I'm just slightly pushing back on the implication that democracy is incompatible with Islam. It's only incompatible with extremists and/or authoritarians. Also, the number is closer to 20% but that's just quibbling.

Posted
7 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Not a single person in this thread is saying they shouldn't go after Hezbollah, just that if their goal is to actually end that organization, doing the exact same shit that caused it to form in the first place might not be a great idea.

They've never done to Hamas and Hezbollah in the past, what they've done over the past month or so - decapitated the leadership and removed a lot of institutional knowledge in such a short amount of time, and gutted their comms.

And now Netanyahu seems to be saying that it's not going to stop with Hamas and Hezbollah, that Iranian leadership will potentially be coming off the bench and entering the game whether they want to or not, or at the very least, Israel will be creating some kind of divide between Iran and Hezbollah/Hamas. Whether that's stopping the weapons and money or just creating enough chaos that Hezbollah can no longer function as a proxy for Iran, who knows.

But that last part is key - that is not something that Israel has done in the past, been able to disrupt the connection between Iran and Hezbollah/Hamas.

And they most likely will have some help, indirect probably, from the US and other countries who want Iran taken down a few pegs to help Ukraine out.

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Posted
11 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Happy to move this to the CR so this thread can be only news.

 

If only it were that easy, the culture warriors will just slither back to get their serotonin hits. Straight trash.

 

14 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I wouldn't celebrate before crossing the goal line. Israeli invasions of Lebanon have not exactly gone well in the past.

 

13 hours ago, Conqueeftador said:

Sorry for your loss. 

 

Dude's butthole sweats for terrorists.

 

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Posted

@Brian Fantana So much I would like to get into in your post about democracy but no time this AM. Will try and remember this evening.

1- You keep thinking of the region as Arab. It is very different from area to area. North Africa could pull off Democracy. It was not the US who fucked up the Arab Spring. Look across the little Sea to the north. Lumping them together is like saying all Latinos are the same. Guatemala ain't mexico culturally. Sure as shit Argentina/Brazil/Peru/Chile have much in common with Mexico except for the spanish legacy (catholic church and history of caudillo rule.) it is fine for geographical association but does not work at all when talking politics, history, etc.

2- Afghanistan could have worked. Democracy is something Afghans understand and appreciate. Loya Jirga, their system of government is very democratic. The two major failures were the surge with conventional forces and pushing what WE, the US, thought was important. The brain trust in State and USAID did not try and understand the culture. When I would lecture on the country I would tell people to forget reading shit about the brits and read persian poetry and if in Engish, Michner's book Caravans (especially the chapter about bridges). Afghans were never in the South (Pashtunistan) going to have equal rights as fast as we wanted them to. USAID is still trying to push women's rights there. I mean TODAY. There is a project titled Women in Agriculture. Problem. Women traditionally do not, and never have, worked in Agriculture. Oh and the Taliban are now in power. @956 Worldwide knows what I mean.

3- You know who does not give a fuck about democracy in the region? Arab leaders. I am looking mainly at the GCC States. What is now propping them up? Chinese investments into sand dominos selling 99 year leases to fat brits and high caste Indians. We prop them up for a few reasons. We inherited the leadership and structure and we like oil/natural gas. Plus they look like land aircraft carriers. We like those.

This tread can get contentious, but for the next 11 days can we just agree OU SUCKS?

 

 

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Posted

I think people are underestimating the intelligence capital spent by Israel in all of this and why they keep grinding forward on the information they have.

Like anything in that is perishable, information has a shelf life. Worst the ability to harvest that information is subject to whims of the environment around it.

Israel has in effect expended most of their information resources to deliver a massive debilitating blow and now will be on the backside of the information curve as the means and sources used to gather that intelligence has been severely compromised in Lebanon and the rest of the Arab world. All around the Middle East you should see regime-wide security reviews, SOP shakeups, communication protocol changes, and a re-vetting of all personnel with access to sensitive people, locations, comms, and information. That is going to seriously hamper future intelligent gathering.

What Israel has going for it is massive chaos in the leadership structure and a fear of communication devices, which will keep Lebanon and to some extent Iran from being organized and keep them reactionary. But like anything else, time will erode that advantage. Therefore Israel must achieve as many of its goals in Lebanon as possible to put Iran in a position that their proxies in Gaza and Lebanon are not viable to keep supporting and doing so puts them at more of a risk than the prestige loss by abandoning them.

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Posted
8 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

speech

  Hide contents

Netanyahu addresses the Iranian people:

 

“I speak a lot about the leaders of Iran. Yet at this pivotal moment, I want to address you, the people of Iran. I want to do so directly, without filters, without middlemen. Every day, you see a regime that subjugates you make fiery speeches about defending Lebanon, defending Gaza. Yet every day, that regime plunges our region deeper into darkness and deeper into war.

Every day, their puppets are eliminated. Ask Mohammed Dev. Ask Nasrallah. There is nowhere in the Middle East Israel cannot reach. There is nowhere we will not go to protect our people and protect our country.

With every passing moment, the regime is bringing you, the noble Persian people, closer to the abyss. The vast majority of Iranians know their regime doesn't care a whit about them. If it did care, if it cared about you, it would stop wasting 1,000,000,000 of dollars on feudal wars across the Middle East. It would start improving your lives. Imagine if all the vast money the regime wasted on nuclear weapons and foreign wars were invested in your children's education and improving your health care and building your nation's infrastructure, water, sewage, all the other things that you need.

Imagine that. But you know one simple thing. Iran's tyrants don't care about your future, but you do. When Iran is finally free, and that moment will come a lot sooner than people think, everything will be different. Our 2 ancient peoples, the Jewish people and the Persian people, will finally be at peace.

Our 2 countries, Israel and Iran, will be at peace. When that day comes, the terror network that the regime built in 5 continents will be bankrupt, dismantled. Iran will thrive as never before. Global investment, massive tourism, brilliant technological innovation based on the tremendous talents that exist inside Iran. Doesn't that sound better than endless poverty, repression, and war?

From Khome to Isfahan, from Shiraz to Tiberise, there are tens of millions of good and decent people with 1,000 of years of history behind them and a brilliant future ahead of them. Don't let a small group of fanatic theocrats crush your hopes and your dreams. You deserve better. Your children deserve better. The entire world deserves better.

I know you don't support the rapists and murderers of Hamas and Hezbollah, but your leaders do. You deserve more. The people of Iran should know Israel stands with you. May we together know a future of prosperity and peace.”

 

tenor.gif

Makes sense, but as long as there are people who believe their god is better than someone else's god, they will be killing one another over it.

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Posted

Maybe I am naive in asking, but how is Lebanon getting all of this weaponry from Iran and around the globe? And how is physically getting to Lebanon, with the various embargos in the region?

Posted
3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Maybe I am naive in asking, but how is Lebanon getting all of this weaponry from Iran and around the globe? And how is physically getting to Lebanon, with the various embargos in the region?

It bears repeating, this account should be taken with a grain of salt. It has a history of misrepresenting footage from past conflicts as current and is frequently pushing a narrative with it.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Maybe I am naive in asking, but how is Lebanon getting all of this weaponry from Iran and around the globe? And how is physically getting to Lebanon, with the various embargos in the region?

In the land of the broke, the man with a dollar is king.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

What Israel has going for it is massive chaos in the leadership structure and a fear of communication devices, which will keep Lebanon and to some extent Iran from being organized and keep them reactionary. But like anything else, time will erode that advantage. Therefore Israel must achieve as many of its goals in Lebanon as possible to put Iran in a position that their proxies in Gaza and Lebanon are not viable to keep supporting and doing so puts them at more of a risk than the prestige loss by abandoning them.

On the other hand, Iran has a metric fuckload of missile bases built under mountains 

Hooray, more escalation! I hear that's the best thing to do in these situations

 

And man the timing is really shit, but apparently our ONLY oiler in the Red Sea is on the fritz. So we can sail our CVN's, but the birds are gas constrained. Good discussion from two retired Navy officers in the spoiler below

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Captainant
Posted
23 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Maybe I am naive in asking, but how is Lebanon getting all of this weaponry from Iran and around the globe? And how is physically getting to Lebanon, with the various embargos in the region?

And they need to check all that ammo for an American head stamp.  

Posted
3 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Ballistic launch from Iran imminent.  Oil spiking.  Last time they tried 300ish missiles they were all shot down.  

Iran feels like it has to make a show of force to demonstrate that it's still capable of projecting military power.

But for flailing conventional missile strikes...it is NOT capable of projecting military power, at least in the levant.  Presuming it launches strikes today, it's kabuki theater.

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Posted
11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

They care. That regime very much cares about surviving.

A coalition of nations need to start arming the Iranian dissidents so they can engage in real pushback against that regime’s Revolutionary Guard.

Then hit their command structure like Israel has done with Hezbollah, plus destroy their nuke program (at least bury it along with its scientists & technicians).

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That was widely telegraphed, and performative. This feels….different. Iran has been repeatedly de-pants by Israel over the last few years. They’re about to find out. 

 

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Iran feels like it has to make a show of force to demonstrate that it's still capable of projecting military power.

But for flailing conventional missile strikes...it is NOT capable of projecting military power, at least in the levant.  Presuming it launches strikes today, it's kabuki theater.

All of those tankers aren't up there alone... So once those missile launch bays open, all of those Israel aircraft will begin to launch JASSMs and other fun toys to look to collapse many of those entrenched deep mine launch positions.

 

Posted
13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Iran feels like it has to make a show of force to demonstrate that it's still capable of projecting military power.

But for flailing conventional missile strikes...it is NOT capable of projecting military power, at least in the levant.  Presuming it launches strikes today, it's kabuki theater.

I hope you are correct on this one.  It certainly has been true in the past.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Well I was told Iran has no cards to play. Very confidently. 

And flashing the deuce that is a barrage of conventional missiles that will inflict little real damage in comparison to what Israel has done to Hezbollah (and thus Iran) in the past two weeks ain't much of a card to play.  Iran cannot do anything that will have much effect.  They can launch a fireworks show.  Cool.  Actual strategic and tactical impact on Israel will almost certainly be de minimis.

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Posted
50 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Maybe I am naive in asking, but how is Lebanon getting all of this weaponry from Iran and around the globe? And how is physically getting to Lebanon, with the various embargos in the region?

 

 

Could Ukraine use that stuff? Israel should ship it to them.

Posted
10 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Well I was told Iran has no cards to play. Very confidently. 

They have to save face, and at the same time not give anybody a reason to go after their drone and missile factories (which Russia needs).

Netanyahu's speech for the Iranian people was interesting.

Posted
2 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

I think people are underestimating the intelligence capital spent by Israel in all of this and why they keep grinding forward on the information they have.

They can blow up half of Hez with pagers and walkie talkies, but they didnt know shit about October 7?

Seems unlikely that on one hand we are flabbergasted at their intelligence but yet they were caught with their pants down?

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

 

Could Ukraine use that stuff? Israel should ship it to them.

 

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They have to save face, and at the same time not give anybody a reason to go after their drone and missile factories (which Russia needs).

Netanyahu's speech for the Iranian people was interesting.

Curious if all of this stuff they are taking from Lebanon isn't going to end up in the hands of the MEK back inside of Iran... I would laugh if Israel helped support a people's revolution in Iran with the weapons Iran smuggled to Lebanon to attack Israel.. .

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I think you’re probably right. But again, you’re a flippant blowhard fuckhead. 

I agree with you on both points.  I mean, I'm not making battlefield calls for the IDF, I'm just a keyboard warrior....just like you.

But both points also likely match up with the pre-game assessments by both Israeli and US intelligence.  They have a pretty good idea what Iran's "force projection" capabilities are, AND Iran's likely response using those capabilities.  And they aren't being flippant blowhards: they're gaming a situation and making and predicting moves based on available data and their opponent's desires and abilities.

Edited by Brisketexan
Posted
3 minutes ago, huge said:

They can blow up half of Hez with pagers and walkie talkies, but they didnt know shit about October 7?

Complacency and arrogance are a helluva drug.

And since October 7, they kicked into really high-gear, blanketing (and precisely mapping) the areas Hamas controlled with drones.  Wish I could find the article, but it talked about all of the technology Israel employed, complete with infrared scanning at night to catch heat signatures of tunnel entrances, vehicles and people moving stuff around, etc. After October 7, Israel treated this like an existential thread, complete with plans to kill any and all Hamas that they could.

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Posted
6 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

If only it were that easy, the culture warriors will just slither back to get their serotonin hits. Straight trash.

 

 

 

Dude's butthole sweats for terrorists.

 

Would you like the mods to create a safe space for you? 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But both points also likely match up with the pre-game assessments by both Israeli and US intelligence.  They have a pretty good idea what Iran's "force projection" capabilities are, AND Iran's likely response using those capabilities.  And they aren't being flippant blowhards: they're gaming a situation and making and predicting moves based on available data and their opponent's desires and abilities.

All of the shipments to Russia have probably been spotted and analyzed, so I would assume the US has a pretty good idea on what the factories are capable of turning out, what current stockpiles they have, etc.

It speaks volumes that Ukraine has been hitting ammo dumps that just so happened to have large ammo shipments show up (from Russian factories and Iran/North Korea).

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Posted
Just now, Rex Kramer said:

You missed a few key descriptors in your description of me. I’m a Palestinian Genocider Keyboard Warrior. 

I'll be sure to get it right next time.  But the full title is "keyboard warrior who says he's definitely not for Palestinian genocide and/or ethnic cleansing, he just supports every action in furtherance of Palestinian genocide and/or ethnic cleansing" - probably need an acronym for that though, it's pretty long.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

It makes sense. We had our pants down on 9/11 and got our shit together. And Israel might’ve been overlooking Gaza gathering intel up north for years (and in fact probably was). 

 I don't know shit about fuck but it doesn't any sense to me.  I

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Complacency and arrogance are a helluva drug.

And since October 7, they kicked into really high-gear, blanketing (and precisely mapping) the areas Hamas controlled with drones.  Wish I could find the article, but it talked about all of the technology Israel employed, complete with infrared scanning at night to catch heat signatures of tunnel entrances, vehicles and people moving stuff around, etc. After October 7, Israel treated this like an existential thread, complete with plans to kill any and all Hamas that they could.

I don't think Israel believes in complacency but again, I don't know shit.  I just see them killing people with pagers.  Maybe this is FAFO, but it seems like something else to me.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'll be sure to get it right next time.  But the full title is "keyboard warrior who says he's definitely not for Palestinian genocide and/or ethnic cleansing, he just supports every action in furtherance of Palestinian genocide and/or ethnic cleansing" - probably need an acronym for that though, it's pretty long.

Pffft

image.gif.c994c9ce5a87061d4e4b0e1818b710f5.gif

 

 

Posted
Just now, Rex Kramer said:

What doesn’t make sense to you?

Hamas was isolated and I would expect a harder, tougher area for Mossad to infiltrate. It was still a massive fuckup no matter how you slice it. But I’m not sure how you can’t recognize the genius with the pagers, walkie-talkies, subsequent airstrikes and then Houthi strikes. 

 

 

What he is hinting at but won't say is that there was a conspiracy by the Israeli government to let Hamas attack Israel in an attack much worse relatively than the WTC in order for Israel to go to war against Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

What doesn’t make sense to you?

Hamas was isolated and I would expect a harder, tougher area for Mossad to infiltrate. It was still a massive fuckup no matter how you slice it. But I’m not sure how you can’t recognize the genius with the pagers, walkie-talkies, subsequent airstrikes and then Houthi strikes. 

That's the point I am making.  I recognize the genius!  This genius stands in stark contrast to what happened previous.  Like worlds apart.  BN was on the hot seat is all I can figure.  AND I AM GENERALLY TEAM BLUE!!!

Posted (edited)

There've been reports of an explosion in tel aviv and then a major shooting attack in jaffa with many casualties. Perhaps the response isn't an overwhelming missile strike, it's the diversion of a threatened missile strike while soft targets are hit. 

 

edit for source:  https://www.aljazeera.com/

Edited by gsoda3
Posted
26 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

There've been reports of an explosion in tel aviv and then a major shooting attack in jaffa with many casualties. Perhaps the response isn't an overwhelming missile strike, it's the diversion of a threatened missile strike while soft targets are hit. 

 

edit for source:  https://www.aljazeera.com/

 

2 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Isn't it kind of wild that in 2024 you can watch missle attacks on live TV?

Hell, I remember watching them in the first gulf war -- SCUD!

The air raid sirens were always what got me.  I remember having a discussion with friends during the gulf war that I nominate "the air raid siren" as the defining and unique "sound" of the 20th century.  Yet here we are in the 21st century, and that sound manages to stay on the charts.

That AJ story says the IDF reports 102 missiles launched -- a significantly smaller salvo than Iran launched last time.  Looks like a couple got through the air defenses.  And, interesting to see what the shooting reports in Tel Aviv and Jaffa are.  But if that's the level that the "retaliation" stays at, it's well within the bounds of what was expected.

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