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Brisketexan

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Israel Appears Poised to Keep Its Troops in Lebanon Beyond Deadline
Israel and Hezbollah agreed to withdraw from southern Lebanon, but Israel says that Hezbollah hasn’t upheld its promise and that the Lebanese Army isn’t ready to fill the void.

Israel is set to occupy parts of southern Lebanon after a deadline for its full military withdrawal lapses on Sunday, the Israeli government implied in a statement on Friday, amid Israeli concerns that Hezbollah remains active there and doubts about the Lebanese Army’s ability to stymie the militia’s resurgence.

Under the terms of a truce between Israel and Hezbollah in late November, Israeli troops were supposed to withdraw within 60 days from areas of Lebanon that they had recently wrested from the group’s control. Hezbollah was also required to withdraw from the region, allowing the Lebanese military to assert its control over an area where Hezbollah, an Iran-backed Shiite force and political movement, had long dominated.

Less than two days before the deadline, the office of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, announced that Israel’s withdrawal was dependent on the Lebanese Army asserting its full control over the area, adding that the timeline was flexible and implying that Israeli troops would remain in Lebanon beyond the cutoff.

“Since the cease-fire agreement has not yet been fully enforced by Lebanon, the gradual withdrawal process will continue under full cooperation with the United States,” the statement from the Israeli prime minister’s office said.

Asked for clarification, the prime minister’s office declined to say if this meant that Israeli troops would definitely remain in Lebanon after the deadline. But Israeli leaders have told American and French mediators that they want to keep some soldiers in southern Lebanon beyond Sunday, according to three officials briefed on the negotiations.

There was no immediate response from the Lebanese government. In a brief message, Hezbollah’s media office said it was awaiting reaction from the countries overseeing the cease-fire, the United States and France. In a longer statement released on Thursday, Hezbollah said that any “breach” of the deal would not be tolerated, because it would be “a blatant violation of the agreement, an attack on Lebanese sovereignty and the beginning of a new chapter of occupation.”

Hezbollah officials did not respond to accusations that Hezbollah had failed to live up to its commitments and that the Lebanese military had not yet taken control of the territory in question. Its media relations office said the group was “committed” to the terms of the cease-fire deal but would not go into further detail.

Violations of the truce are monitored and investigated by a committee chaired by the United States and involving France. Hezbollah has called on those international monitors and the Lebanese government not to allow “any pretexts or excuses for prolonging the occupation,” but did not say what action it would take if Israeli troops remained.

After two months mostly without conflict, despite occasional violations, the specter of renewed fighting looms again, even if Hezbollah, battered and exhausted, no longer poses the same threat to Israel as it did at the start of the war nearly 16 months ago.

Spoiler

If Israeli troops do remain beyond the weekend without Lebanon’s blessing, Hezbollah will have to choose between accepting the status quo and losing face — or resuming battle and risking a large Israeli counterattack that would further damage both its decimated ranks and Lebanese civilian infrastructure. Should fighting restart, Israel’s defense minister, Israel Katz, has warned that Israeli strikes would no longer differentiate between Hezbollah and the Lebanese state.

“It’s a serious dilemma for Hezbollah. They are damned if they resist and damned if they don’t,” said Nicholas Blanford, a Beirut-based analyst for the Atlantic Council, an American research group. “Hezbollah’s supporters will not thank the party for resuming war when they are trying to return to their homes and begin rebuilding.”

Since November, Israel has transferred more than 100 military installations and villages to the Lebanese authorities, but still occupies roughly 70 percent of the areas that it captured after invading Lebanon last fall, according to Andrea Tenenti, a spokesman for UNIFIL, the United Nations peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon.

Israeli officials say that the Lebanese Army has yet to signal its willingness to fill the void in those areas, all which are south of the Litani River. Mr. Tenenti said that the Lebanese military stood ready to do so but could not enter places that the Israeli military has yet to vacate.

Asked for comment, the Lebanese military referred to a public statement in which it said that it “maintains readiness to complete its deployment in the area south of the Litani River immediately after the Israeli enemy withdraws from it.”

In recent days, Israeli troops did not appear to be preparing for a complete evacuation, according to an official and an Israeli military officer who also spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak more freely.

The deadline poses an early quandary for President Trump, who strongly backs Israel but campaigned on a promise of peace for Lebanon.

It is also a test for Lebanon’s new leaders. President Joseph Aoun and Prime Minister-designate Nawaf Salam, both selected this month, need a peaceful environment to rebuild Lebanon after years of war, political chaos and economic catastrophe. Their authority risks being undermined if they prove powerless to control their own territory and influence either Hezbollah or Israel.

The new Lebanese leadership “has yet to demonstrate adequately that it can be a confident leader in managing Hezbollah — a weakness that, of course, Israel is going to continue to exploit as justification for staying past the deadline,” said Sanam Vakil, the director of the Middle East program at Chatham House, a London-based foreign affairs research group.

The current conflict began after Hezbollah’s ally Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking some 250 hostages. The next day, Hezbollah began firing rockets at Israeli military positions in solidarity with Hamas, and Israel fired back, leading to daily exchanges that displaced hundreds of thousands of Israeli and Lebanese civilians and damaged towns on either side of the border.

The fighting escalated last summer, after a rocket from Lebanon killed a group of children and teenagers in an Israeli-controlled town. Israel assassinated most of Hezbollah’s top leadership, sharply increased its bombardment of Hezbollah strongholds and then launched a ground invasion into southern Lebanon.

The Israeli offensive destroyed whole neighborhoods, displaced more than a million people and killed several thousand, including many civilians.

The war also led to direct confrontations between Israel and Iran, Hezbollah’s main backer.

Bruised and distracted, Hezbollah and Iran were both powerless to prevent the collapse of a third member of their alliance, the Syrian government. President Bashar al-Assad of Syria was toppled by rebels in December, making it almost impossible for Iran to send arms to Hezbollah through Syrian territory. Within Lebanon, Hezbollah’s strength was diminished, leading to the rise of Mr. Aoun and Mr. Salam, who both promised to restore the cohesion and authority of the Lebanese state.

Israeli leaders privately say that a stronger Lebanese government is in Israel’s interests, because it could further curb the influence of Hezbollah, which opposes Israel’s existence. Hezbollah was founded in the 1980s, partly in response to a previous Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon, which lasted until 2000. The militia’s weaponry gave it outsized influence over Lebanese affairs, with some comparing it to a state within a state. Now, the group is at its weakest ebb in decades.

But Israel is prepared to stay within Lebanon, denting the new Lebanese leadership’s authority, with its officials arguing that Hezbollah still retains the resources and the ambition to pose a threat to Israeli villages along the border.

Thousands of displaced Israelis have yet to return to their homes, fearful that Hezbollah will not adhere to the terms of the cease-fire and rebuild military infrastructure within firing range of Israeli communities.

Israeli officials complain that the Lebanese Army has yet to mobilize enough forces to replace Israeli troops in several key places, preventing the truce from being implemented in full. And they say that Hezbollah’s forces have yet to leave southern Lebanon, breaking the truce’s terms and forcing the Israeli military to remain in place.

The Lebanese Army has deployed to major towns and villages in southern Lebanon in recent weeks, mostly in places close to the Mediterranean Sea, in the southwest of the country. It has also deployed specialized units to remove rubble, dispose of unexploded ordinance and reconstruct roads that were destroyed. Army officials say they have operated in coordination with the international committee supervising the cease-fire.

But Lebanese soldiers have yet to take charge of the borderlands further to the east, with the exception of the area around Khiam, a town in southeast Lebanon that was the site of fierce fighting during the war.

An Israeli military officer, speaking on the condition of anonymity to speak more freely, said the Israeli Army had made no attempt to dismantle roughly half a dozen military bases built in recent months along a narrow strip, less than a mile wide, north of the Israel-Lebanon border.

The expectation among soldiers at the front, the officer said, was that they would remain in place for the foreseeable future to prevent Hezbollah’s return there.

 

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21 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You must've missed all the news about Palestinian hostages being sexually abused and tortured in Israeli prisons and hospitals.

Yes, I saw the soldiers accused of that atrocity also be arrested. You’ll notice that doesn’t happen on the other side. In fact, they’re actually regarded as heroes. 

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31 minutes ago, Hitch said:

No offense, but raping and torturing women hostages seems a little worse than destroying roads. 

Yeah....way to entirely miss the point.  There are stacks of stories about how shitty Hamas is, the awful inhuman shit they've done, etc.  There are ALSO stacks of stories about how Israeli forces (and people acting under the protection of same) are committing atrocities, ethnic cleansing, and the like, against Palestinians (including in the West Bank).

Again...."their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" is the whole fucking problem here, and my entire point -- there's no moral high ground.  Just an argument that the "other guys" have fallen lower than we have.  Fucking hell.

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5 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yes, I saw the soldiers accused of that atrocity also be arrested.

Guess you missed the part where Israeli protestors, including multiple members of parliament stormed the army base where those accused soldiers were in custody, insisting that they be set free.

Again, more "see, their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" bullshit, while also not even seeing the actual full picture.  Perfection.  Couldn't capture this shitshow any better if I tried.

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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah....way to entirely miss the point.  There are stacks of stories about how shitty Hamas is, the awful inhuman shit they've done, etc.  There are ALSO stacks of stories about how Israeli forces (and people acting under the protection of same) are committing atrocities, ethnic cleansing, and the like, against Palestinians (including in the West Bank).

Again...."their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" is the whole fucking problem here, and my entire point -- there's no moral high ground.  Just an argument that the "other guys" have fallen lower than we have.  Fucking hell.

I didn’t miss the point at all. It was just a silly comment. Their atrocities are far, far worse and I think it’s dangerous to lose sight of that. 

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Guess you missed the part where Israeli protestors, including multiple members of parliament stormed the army base where those accused soldiers were in custody, insisting that they be set free.

Again, more "see, their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" bullshit, while also not even seeing the actual full picture.  Perfection.  Couldn't capture this shitshow any better if I tried.

Quoted above. Theirs are far worse and I will never conflate the two. That’s ridiculous. 

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Just now, Hitch said:

I didn’t miss the point at all. It was just a silly comment. Their atrocities are far, far worse and I think it’s dangerous to lose sight of that. 

Fucking.  FANTASTIC.

Now, sit down with some rational supporters of the Palestinian cause who can lay out pages and pages and pages of Israeli atrocities, violence, ethnic cleansing, and the like against Palestinians starting with the Nakba (as the Palestinians see it), and see how that scorecard looks.

"Hey, our atrocities are only -300 humanity points, theirs are -375 humanity points!" is a fucking horrific argument.  Yet that's the one you're making.  Which, again...makes my point with bullseye-precision.

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5 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yes, I saw the soldiers accused of that atrocity also be arrested. You’ll notice that doesn’t happen on the other side. In fact, they’re actually regarded as heroes. 

Very very few Israeli soldiers ever actually get punished for abuse allegations. And, if they do, it's usually for only a month or two.

For example:

Between 2017 and 2021, the Israeli military received 1,260 cases of alleged offenses by Israeli soldiers against Palestinians, including 409 cases involving the killing of Palestinians, according to military data obtained by the group Yesh Din and released in December after a freedom of information request.

The Israeli military opened 248 criminal investigations into instances of possible misconduct in response to those complaints — just 21.4% of the total, Yesh Din said. Only 11 investigations during that five-year period have yielded indictments.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-soldiers-arrested-abuse-palestinians-be9a247497d7ede7d7b866f2e725fcfd

Take, for another example, the Israeli protestors who broke into a prison to free the soldiers accused of abuse.

Demonstrators also entered the Beit Lid military base in central Israel where the accused reservists were taken for questioning.

Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, said the investigation into the soldiers’ conduct must be allowed to continue, adding “even in times of anger, the law applies to everyone”.

However some Israeli politicians have condemned the arrest of the reservists. Itamar Ben-Gvir, the far-right national security minister, called their detention “nothing less than shameful”.Since the 7 October Hamas attack, Israeli authorities have rounded up and held thousands of Palestinians, often without legal representation.

The BBC has previously spoken to medical workers at a field hospital set up in Sde Teiman, who alleged that detainees have been blindfolded, permanently shackled to their beds, and made to wear nappies rather than having access to a toilet.

Last month, Israel’s Haaretz newspaper published allegations made by a doctor at Sde Teiman that leg amputations had been carried out on two prisoners, because of cuffing injuries. The BBC has not independently verified the claims.

Detainees there have told journalists and United Nations officials that they were beaten and attacked. The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have denied systematic abuse.

Many Gazans detained by Israel’s army are released without charge after interrogation. Amnesty International this month called on Israel to end the indefinite detention of Gaza Palestinians and what it called "rampant torture" in its prisons.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o

I, in no way, defend Hamas's actions -- we all know what they do is evil. But some of us apparently don't seem to apply the same standards to all parties.

You know: hypocrisy.

 

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Just now, Brisketexan said:

Fucking.  FANTASTIC.

Now, sit down with some rational supporters of the Palestinian cause who can lay out pages and pages and pages of Israeli atrocities, violence, ethnic cleansing, and the like against Palestinians starting with the Nakba (as the Palestinians see it), and see how that scorecard looks.

"Hey, our atrocities are only -300 humanity points, theirs are -375 humanity points!" is a fucking horrific argument.  Yet that's the one you're making.  Which, again...makes my point with bullseye-precision.

A proper accounting is crucial to understanding the situation. The scorecard is just not very close unfortunately. Maybe one day the Palestinian’s will hold their own rapists and murderers accountable and not hail them as heroes. Then those rational conversations can truly start. 

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I, in no way, defend Hamas's actions -- we all know what they do is evil. But some of us apparently don't seem to apply the same standards to all parties.

You know: hypocrisy.

It's not even that.  It's arguing that "degree" really matters when both sides have gone well over the line of "horrific."

"You raped 50 women, that's far worse than me, I only raped 25 women, why, you raped TWICE as many as I did!"  Jesus fucking Christ.  "Degree" is relevant when you're arguing that party X raped women, and party Y ran a stop sign.  Once you cross into a world where both parties committed multiple felonies, then....fuck em both.

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4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Very very few Israeli soldiers ever actually get punished for abuse allegations. And, if they do, it's usually for only a month or two.

For example:

Between 2017 and 2021, the Israeli military received 1,260 cases of alleged offenses by Israeli soldiers against Palestinians, including 409 cases involving the killing of Palestinians, according to military data obtained by the group Yesh Din and released in December after a freedom of information request.

The Israeli military opened 248 criminal investigations into instances of possible misconduct in response to those complaints — just 21.4% of the total, Yesh Din said. Only 11 investigations during that five-year period have yielded indictments.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-soldiers-arrested-abuse-palestinians-be9a247497d7ede7d7b866f2e725fcfd

Take, for another example, the Israeli protestors who broke into a prison to free the soldiers accused of abuse.

Demonstrators also entered the Beit Lid military base in central Israel where the accused reservists were taken for questioning.

Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, said the investigation into the soldiers’ conduct must be allowed to continue, adding “even in times of anger, the law applies to everyone”.

However some Israeli politicians have condemned the arrest of the reservists. Itamar Ben-Gvir, the far-right national security minister, called their detention “nothing less than shameful”.Since the 7 October Hamas attack, Israeli authorities have rounded up and held thousands of Palestinians, often without legal representation.

The BBC has previously spoken to medical workers at a field hospital set up in Sde Teiman, who alleged that detainees have been blindfolded, permanently shackled to their beds, and made to wear nappies rather than having access to a toilet.

Last month, Israel’s Haaretz newspaper published allegations made by a doctor at Sde Teiman that leg amputations had been carried out on two prisoners, because of cuffing injuries. The BBC has not independently verified the claims.

Detainees there have told journalists and United Nations officials that they were beaten and attacked. The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have denied systematic abuse.

Many Gazans detained by Israel’s army are released without charge after interrogation. Amnesty International this month called on Israel to end the indefinite detention of Gaza Palestinians and what it called "rampant torture" in its prisons.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o

I, in no way, defend Hamas's actions -- we all know what they do is evil. But some of us apparently don't seem to apply the same standards to all parties.

You know: hypocrisy.

 

Again, there’s investigations and arrests. They’re not building statues of them. You just can’t compare the two unfortunately. 

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1 minute ago, Hitch said:

A proper accounting is crucial to understanding the situation. The scorecard is just not very close unfortunately. Maybe one day the Palestinian’s will hold their own rapists and murderers accountable and not hail them as heroes. Then those rational conversations can truly start. 

When an entire people have been crushed beneath the treads of a massive military apparatus for decades, and that gets no points on your "scorecard," then yeah....your scorecard is uber fucked.

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1 minute ago, Hitch said:

A proper accounting is crucial to understanding the situation. The scorecard is just not very close unfortunately. Maybe one day the Palestinian’s will hold their own rapists and murderers accountable and not hail them as heroes. Then those rational conversations can truly start. 

Yes, a proper accounting for of actions by all war criminals is greatly needed.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges

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1 minute ago, Hitch said:

They’re not building statues of them.

A mob of Israeli citizens, INCLUDING MPs, stormed army bases to free them.  There is a SIZEABLE movement in Israeli society that likes, celebrates, and wants more atrocities against Palestinians.  Sorry, putting the white hat on Israel makes you a fucking liar.

And again, I say this as someone who thinks that Hamas is evil, vile, giant pieces of shit.

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1 minute ago, Hitch said:

Hamas starting a war with Israel was a truly awful, awful idea. Even for those idiots. 

Maybe not in their eyes. It showed the world what Israel would do vs. what they told the world they would not do.

Hamas is there still. Yeah they lost manpower, but how many new recruits do they gain? Israel? Only those who already liked the IDF will back the IDF.

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

A mob of Israeli citizens, INCLUDING MPs, stormed army bases to free them.  There is a SIZEABLE movement in Israeli society that likes, celebrates, and wants more atrocities against Palestinians.  Sorry, putting the white hat on Israel makes you a fucking liar.

And again, I say this as someone who thinks that Hamas is evil, vile, giant pieces of shit.

Well, of course. Remember how we were after our own 9/11. A sizable portion of our country also said very dumb things. 

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17 minutes ago, bolverk said:

It saddens me, too, when war criminals have to suffer the consequences of old age.

Well, we all do. Although I have to say, kicking all of the middle east’s ass is a hell of an accomplishment. Especially when, and stop me of you’ve heard this before, Israel was attacked on a holy day. 

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22 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Well, we all do. Although I have to say, kicking all of the middle east’s ass is a hell of an accomplishment. Especially when, and stop me of you’ve heard this before, Israel was attacked on a holy day. 

If you consider murdering a thousand innocent civilians in a refugee camp as "kicking ass," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and war criminal.

If you consider expanding illegal settlements on stolen land in occupied territories an "accomplishment," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and a war criminal.

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

Yes, I saw the soldiers accused of that atrocity also be arrested. You’ll notice that doesn’t happen on the other side. In fact, they’re actually regarded as heroes. 

You know, it sounds like you actually regard Sharon as a hero. 

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13 minutes ago, bolverk said:

If you consider murdering a thousand innocent civilians in a refugee camp as "kicking ass," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and war criminal.

If you consider expanding illegal settlements on stolen land in occupied territories an "accomplishment," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and a war criminal.

You know, it sounds like you actually regard Sharon as a hero. 

He does.  See, when Israel commits atrocities, it's actually a GOOD thing, because Hamas has committed worse atrocities.  So long as the other side did something worse, not only is anything you do okay, it's actually GOOD, because the other side is bad.

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

If you consider murdering a thousand innocent civilians in a refugee camp as "kicking ass," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and war criminal.

If you consider expanding illegal settlements on stolen land in occupied territories an "accomplishment," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and a war criminal.

You know, it sounds like you actually regard Sharon as a hero. 

There seems to be a trend of attacking Israel and then getting your ass kicked. Maybe they should stop. 

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

If you consider murdering a thousand innocent civilians in a refugee camp as "kicking ass," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and war criminal.

If you consider expanding illegal settlements on stolen land in occupied territories an "accomplishment," congratulations, you're celebrating a terrorist and a war criminal.

You know, it sounds like you actually regard Sharon as a hero. 

Also, I don’t think he’s a hero. But he was a prime minister and a bust of him at an airport seems rather innocuous. 

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah....way to entirely miss the point.  There are stacks of stories about how shitty Hamas is, the awful inhuman shit they've done, etc.  There are ALSO stacks of stories about how Israeli forces (and people acting under the protection of same) are committing atrocities, ethnic cleansing, and the like, against Palestinians (including in the West Bank).

Again...."their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" is the whole fucking problem here, and my entire point -- there's no moral high ground.  Just an argument that the "other guys" have fallen lower than we have.  Fucking hell.

Israel has the high ground by a long shot. The constant equivalence by you and others is tiresome. There is no ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The constant hand wringing by you and others makes yall a joke. 

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As Israeli forces are destroying infrastructure in the West Bank.

Okay then.

You (and plenty of others, particularly Palestine supporters) have a liberal and frankly retarded definition of ethnic cleansing. Any time I hear Israel being accused of ethnic cleansing, I laugh and immediately dismiss the person. 

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Just now, Rex Kramer said:

You (and plenty of others, particularly Palestine supporters) have a liberal and frankly retarded definition of ethnic cleansing. Any time I hear Israel being accused of ethnic cleansing, I laugh and immediately dismiss the person. 

You're basically a holocaust denier, congratulations dipshit. You and PRONG HORN are the only ones left on the board that even make this claim.

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1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

You (and plenty of others, particularly Palestine supporters) have a liberal and frankly retarded definition of ethnic cleansing. Any time I hear Israel being accused of ethnic cleansing, I laugh and immediately dismiss the person. 

Well, being that your definition of ethnic cleansing is "total genocide, and only total genocide," I'm quite glad not to be stuck on your short bus.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, being that your definition of ethnic cleansing is "total genocide, and only total genocide," I'm quite glad not to be stuck on your short bus.

Not my definition, but whatever. Israel isn’t engaged in ethnic cleansing. It’s an absurd notion. It’s not worth discussing with you. You’re a joke. 

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1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

Not my definition, but whatever. Israel isn’t engaged in ethnic cleansing. It’s an absurd notion. It’s not worth discussing with you. You’re a joke. 

I mean....I don't even need to dig deep.  It's the fucking basic Wikipedia definition:

"Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous."

And your position is that there haven't been systematic forced removals of Palestinians from areas where they have lived in the West Bank.

I am perfectly good where we stand.  And again, that I get lumped in as a Hamas apologist or some shit only tells me how fucking ridiculous you are.  I continue to be incredibly comfortable with what I have observed and concluded.  I'm not the guy trying to jam a white hat on anyone's head around here.

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The UN has provided at least two definitions of ethnic cleansing:

  • "… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area."
  • “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”
Quote

 

The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others.

The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.”
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

 

One can argue extenuating circumstances, explanations, justifications, and excuses until the end of time, but like it or not, displacing Palestinians from their land IS the history of Israel. In fact, that's been the entire point from the very beginning: carving out a chunk of land for a single ethno-religious group.

And the Israelis are very accomplished (with a whole lot of help from the US) in doing just that.

 

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On 1/24/2025 at 2:41 PM, Rex Kramer said:

There is no ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-says-wants-clean-gaza-move-palestinians-jordan-egypt-rcna189317

“I’d rather get involved with some of the Arab nations and build housing at a different location where they can maybe live in peace for a change,” Trump said to reporters aboard Air Force One on Saturday.

“You’re talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing and say, ‘You know, it’s over,’” he added.

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31 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I don't know if this is the right thread for this but -maybe the only maneuver Netanyahu has left to try to stay in power, idk.

 

 

I can't see how Israel, the US, and Saudi Arabia can allow Iran to obtain nukes and improve their missile technology via Russia. It's coming and needs to happen before Iran can regroup and resupply Hezbollah and Hamas. First they will try negotiating, though.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-said-set-to-tap-mideast-envoy-steve-witkoff-as-iran-point-man/

Trump says ‘would be nice’ to solve Iranian nuclear crisis without Israeli strikes

US president reportedly set to tap Mideast envoy Steve Witkoff as Iran point man, signaling turn away from ‘maximum pressure’ policy of 1st term: ‘Certainly somebody I would use’

By Jacob Magid,

US President Donald Trump on Thursday said he hopes the Iranian nuclear crisis can be solved without Israel having to carry out a military strike against the Islamic Republic.

The remarks came after it was reported that Trump is planning to name his Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff as his point man on Iran, signaling the new administration’s resolve to address Tehran’s nuclear program diplomatically rather than militarily.

“I’m not going to answer that,” Trump first replied when asked by reporters in the Oval Office whether he would support an Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, adding that he would be holding meetings with various senior officials on the matter shortly.

“Hopefully that can be worked out without having to worry about it. It would really be nice if that could be worked out without having to go that further step,” Trump continued.

“Iran will hopefully make a deal, and if they don’t make a deal that’s okay too,” he said.

His administration has signaled in recent days that it wants to try and reach a diplomatic agreement with Iran to curb its nuclear program, rather than carrying out a military strike.

There had been some in Israel who assumed that Trump’s return to the White House would lead to the US backing an Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear sites or even carrying out such an attack itself.

Trump had criticized his predecessor Joe Biden for publicly telling Israel not to strike Iranian oil and nuclear sites in retaliation for Tehran’s ballistic missile attack last year. Trump had argued that Biden shouldn’t be publicly telegraphing Israel’s next move.

Senior Trump officials were earlier quoted by Channel 12 news as saying the new US president “doesn’t want to kick off his term with a war,” is interested in a “firm deal” to prevent Iran from attaining nuclear arms, and assesses that “the Iranians will run to the negotiating table under his leadership.”
Witkoff ‘certainly somebody I would use’

Trump on Thursday also addressed the Gaza hostage release and ceasefire deal he helped finalize, saying it “should hold.”

The comments appeared to soften ones he made earlier in the week, when he said he was not confident that the agreement would hold.

Asked to elaborate on those comments, Trump told reporters, “It’s a very tricky place.”

Trump credited his envoy Witkoff for securing the agreement that had been elusive for months. Noting that “both sides” liked Witkoff, Trump said, “That deal would have never been made without Steve.”

“The deal should hold, but if it doesn’t there will be a lot of problems,” Trump warned.

Trump was also asked whether he’ll want Witkoff to be negotiating directly with Iran, amid the reports that he was planning to have him handle US diplomacy with Tehran.

“No, but he’s certainly somebody I would use,” Trump said.

The Financial Times had reported that Witkoff, known for his central role bringing the Gaza ceasefire deal to a conclusion, will oversee efforts to tackle Iran’s nuclear ambitions as part of a broader attempt to curb conflicts in the region, adding that the ceasefire agreement will remain Witkoff’s main focus.

News of Witkoff’s tentative appointment came as Trump revoked the security detail of two prominent Iran hawks from his previous administration: former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former Iran envoy Brian Hook, both of whom were considered under threat by Iran.

Pompeo and Hook were the public faces of the US “maximum pressure” sanctions campaign against Iran after Trump in 2018 withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal. The deal, signed in 2015, offered relief on sanctions in exchange for Iran’s drastically limiting its nuclear program.

In response to Trump’s withdrawal, Tehran, which is sworn to destroy Israel, has breached the deal in several ways, including by accelerating its uranium enrichment to levels that are unfeasible for civilian use.

Iran also operates an “Axis of Resistance” network of anti-Israel regional proxies, including Gaza’s Hamas, Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Yemen’s Houthis, and has struck Israel directly twice in the past year.

Mohammad Javad Zarif, a top Iranian official who was Tehran’s lead negotiator on the 2015 deal, said Wednesday that he hopes “this time around, a ‘Trump 2’ will be more serious, more focused, more realistic.”

Though Trump has publicly vowed to resume “maximum pressure” on Iran, the Financial Times said that the US president and his aides have indicated in meetings that they want to keep the door open to diplomacy with the Islamic Republic.

According to the newspaper, some Trump officials have told foreign counterparts that they expect Witkoff to check whether diplomacy with Iran was possible.

However, US officials cited by the newspaper said that Trump’s approach to Iran in his second term, and Witkoff’s mandate vis-a-vis the Islamic Republic, were not yet settled.

A senior Republican staffer in the US Congress, quoted by the Financial Times, expressed frustration at Witkoff’s appointment, saying the new Iran point man was not hawkish enough.

“He’s already lifting pressure on Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, and in the process abandoning American hostages and endangering Israel,” said the aide — though the White House on Thursday re-designated the Houthis as a terror group.

“He keeps saying he knows what Trump wants, but he doesn’t understand what Trump believes,” the aide added.
US President Donald Trump speaks in the Roosevelt Room at the White House on January 21, 2025, in Washington, DC. (Jim Watson/AFP)

The Financial Times noted that two of Trump’s appointments — Michael DiMino, the Pentagon’s new top Middle East official, and Elbridge Colby, nominated for under-secretary of defense for policy — have expressed skepticism over the use of military force to thwart Iran’s nuclear program.

A more robust approach, meanwhile, has been advocated by Trump’s designated national security adviser, Michael Waltz, and new US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

The top diplomat, who was confirmed on Wednesday, said in a phone call with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu later in the day that “he looks forward to addressing the threats posed by Iran and pursuing opportunities for peace,” according to a State Department readout.

A congressional staffer and a person familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss personal security details, confirmed Thursday that Trump had revoked Pompeo and Hook’s security details.

Neither source could offer an explanation. They said Pompeo and Hook were told of the loss of protection on Wednesday and that it took effect at 11 p.m. that night.
Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaks at the annual leadership meeting of the Republican Jewish Coalition, November 18, 2022, in Las Vegas, Nevada. (AP Photo/John Locher)

A day earlier, Trump had revoked the security clearance and Secret Service protection from John Bolton, another Iran hawk who was fired as Trump’s national security adviser during his first term.

Bolton, who has been targeted for assassination for Iran, later wrote a book whose publication the White House unsuccessfully sought to block on grounds that it disclosed national security information.

Trump had soured on Pompeo some months ago, saying publicly that he would play no role in his new administration. In a social media post this week, Trump also fired Hook from his presidentially appointed position on the board of the Wilson Center, a think tank.

A representative for Pompeo did not immediately reply to a request for comment, and Hook has not responded to multiple voice and text messages from the AP since Bolton was stripped of his protection on Tuesday.

The New York Times first reported on the loss of protections.

The Biden administration’s State Department had provided and then systematically renewed round-the-clock protection by the Diplomatic Security Service for Pompeo and Hook since January 21, 2021, when they left office along with Trump. The last such authorization was on October 21.

Iran has blamed both for the killing of Iran Revolutionary Guard commander Qassem Soleimani on January 3, 2020.

According to a March 2022 report to Congress, the State Department said it was paying more than $2 million per month to provide 24-hour security to Pompeo and Hook. But later determinations did not give a dollar amount.

In those notifications, the State Department told lawmakers that threats against Pompeo and Hook remain “serious and credible” and continue to warrant government-provided security details.

Biden administration officials briefed Trump officials earlier this month about the ongoing threat posed by Iran to Pompeo, Hook, Bolton and others and why the administration had extended the security details for them, according to a former senior Biden administration official familiar with the matter.

The official, who requested anonymity to discuss the private briefing, said Trump administration officials are “well aware” of the “active threats” against the former government officials and called the move “highly irresponsible.”

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Anchor- " We cut away from our detailed coverage of Taylor Swift for breaking news from the Pentagon."

"Good evening Joanne, this is Chad Shitzenheifen live from the Pentagon. We are awaiting news from Sec Def Hegsmegma about his role in the negotiations with Iran. Here comes the Secretary."

Hegsegma, "American people, negotiations in good faith were ongoing, but the Iranians have walked away from the table. We tried. We really did. We thought we had a deal in place. Their failure to allow for full import of US bacon into Iran was balked at and broke the negotiations.

In other news, B2's from Barksdale, on a routine training flight in the Indian Ocean and fully loaded have commenced military operations against Iran."

 


 

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