Israel-Hamas war thread

[Trey3216 15325]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Al Jazeera Live Update page links to this Twitter account from a WaPo journalist. Sorry for the editorializing from the first tweet. Focus on the second.

 

I bet some geolocation and directional analysis could figure out where that came from pretty quick.  

[SimonBolivar 10911]

Quote

Reuters

11:16 PM

Hamas leader says U.S. holds responsibility for Gaza hospital attack

The United States is responsible for the attack on a Gaza hospital that killed hundreds of Palestinians, Palestinian Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said in a televised speech on Tuesday, stressing that Washington gave Israel "the cover for its aggression."

[Anastasis 23393]

2 minutes ago, NoName said:

 

i was going to post a video that they say is the failed launch but man idk if i trust the account so not going to post it until more reliable/trustworthy people do.

There are some 2022 videos floating around that purport to show the misfire rocket, lots of disinfo infecting the space. 

[NoName 16290]

24 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Al Jazeera Live Update page links to this Twitter account from a WaPo journalist. Sorry for the editorializing from the first tweet. Focus on the second.

 

from an hour ago re: that video you posted

edit: war cabinet member coming out and saying it as well, so not just IDF spokesman

edit2: BN saying it now too

also another video of the potential explosion

one of the accounts i follow is trying to tie this shot to some of the wider gaza skyline livestreams currently before the footage goes down

he just RTd this, but not 100% sure timeframes match up?

edit2: more info on failed rocket, looking more likely

 

another video cross referencing the one shot from the balcony above

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by NoName

[NoName 16290]

 

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There are some 2022 videos floating around that purport to show the misfire rocket, lots of disinfo infecting the space. 

yeah there is one that some moron literally said was this attack and was watermarked 8/7/22 lol

others that they were working on running down from that same timeframe.

if IDF is saying this clearly what it was, i fully expect them to bring the receipts soon.

edit: this is the footage i was referring to

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by NoName

[Woodrow Call 494]

A good friend of ours is one of the primary advisors to the crown prince of an Arab country. He went to law school in the U.S. with my son. He says things are as tense as they can get. All hands on deck. Terribly worried about escalation. 

[52-80 19081]

17 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Spiderman_pointing_meme.jpg

[NoName 16290]

geolocation thread

 

[SimonBolivar 10911]

Quote

Reuters 11:44 PM Hezbollah announces ‘day of unprecedented anger’ against Israel, Biden's visit to Israel

And opening for the Butthole Surfers tonight is Day of Unprecedented Anger! 

[wildcat09 29225]

 

Really doesn't help that Israel's comms are a total shitshow.

[Brisketexan 104559]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Really doesn't help that Israel's comms are a total shitshow.

The fact that these days, "comms" largely means "twitter posts"......yeah.  Not bueno.

[52-80 19081]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

 

more updates

+

 edit2: of course a politician already jumped on it. wrong time and direction. at this point not seeing ANYONE clearly say what did/didn't happen and a lot of questions out there about it like an hour+ after it happened is wild

and the politician(s) get called out on it, in full public view, as they rightfully should be. 
 

no take-backsies. 

[Anastasis 23393]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Really doesn't help that Israel's comms are a total shitshow.

Just one clarification to the tweet in your post, the person described as the US ambassador to Israel is the Israeli ambassador to the US.  Get your together twitter.  Embeds from that hellsite should have been disabled a long time ago. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Anastasis

[troph 24562]

assuming it's hamas, this is what happens when you install military systems next to your fucking hospitals you fucking morans.

[statsman 5421]

Possibilities:

IDF missile

Hamas missile misfire

Hamas missile intercepted by IDF (Iron Dome?)

Question- does the Iron Dome intercept Israel-bound missiles while over Gaza, or West Bank, or Lebanon? I hadn’t really thought of that, but if so, I can’t really carp. 

[BrickHorn 18186]

11 minutes ago, troph said:

assuming it's hamas, this is what happens when you install military systems next to your fucking hospitals you fucking morans.

And aside from jumping to conclusions, rushing to judgment, and blindly accepting inflammatory claims, assuming is probably the best thing to do at this point.

[Brisketexan 104559]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

And aside from jumping to conclusions, rushing to judgment, and blindly accepting inflammatory claims, assuming is probably the best thing to do at this point.

Yeah, I'd assume so.

[Tonesky 917]

8 minutes ago, statsman said:

Question- does the Iron Dome intercept Israel-bound missiles while over Gaza, or West Bank, or Lebanon? I hadn’t really thought of that, but if so, I can’t really carp. 

I assume it depends on the launch location.  If far north near the Israeli border, doubtful.  If launched further south, possible?

[troph 24562]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

And aside from jumping to conclusions, rushing to judgment, and blindly accepting inflammatory claims, assuming is probably the best thing to do at this point.

I said assuming. Both sides blaming each other so wait and see but it’s fairly well known Hamas does in fact stage military ops near highly sensitive civilian targets. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

19 minutes ago, troph said:

assuming it's hamas, this is what happens when you install military systems next to your fucking hospitals you fucking morans.

 

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

And aside from jumping to conclusions, rushing to judgment, and blindly accepting inflammatory claims, assuming is probably the best thing to do at this point.

 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I'd assume so.

 

4 minutes ago, Tonesky said:

I assume it depends on the launch location.  If far north near the Israeli border, doubtful.  If launched further south, possible?

 

1 minute ago, troph said:

I said assuming. Both sides blaming each other so wait and see but it’s fairly well known Hamas does in fact stage military ops near highly sensitive civilian targets. 

Assume

[bolverk 29397]

14 minutes ago, troph said:

assuming it's hamas, this is what happens when you install military systems next to your fucking hospitals you fucking morans.

 

One major point I've heard/read over the last couple of days from multiple experts is that the strategic use of terrorism (to put it coldly) is often to force a provocation.

In this case, it seems clear that Hamas's goal was to derail the normalization of ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia, likely at the behest of Iran which would've been further isolated in the Middle East.

What does Hamas get out of this deal other than the blood of the people they purportedly represent/protect? Possibilities include:

1. Adding to their cred amongst the radicals (I've read that their status was slipping to other groups).
2. Highlighting the plight of the Palestinian people (Fareed Zakariah and Zeihan both said they were getting sidelined for the Saudi/Israeli deal).
3. Causing an erosion of support for Israel in the West (They know that Israel's wrath over Hamas's heinous acts in a densely populated place full of poor people would result in lots of deaths would be seen as too extreme). 

And Zeihan said explicitly that Iran wouldn't be concerned by all the Palestinian bloodshed because they're Arab Sunni pawns and apostates who are dying and not Shiite Persian faithful. 

So, sadly, their brutal attack a little over a week ago may end up being considered a sickening "success" if viewed through this prism.

[bolverk 29397]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

I said assuming. Both sides blaming each other so wait and see but it’s fairly well known Hamas does in fact stage military ops near highly sensitive civilian targets. 

In a highly dense place like Gaza, it's kind of hard NOT to be near sensitive civilian targets (not sure if that's the right word unless the hospital was truly targeted but let's go with that since I don't have a better word at the moment), which again might well be part of the whole calculation of starting this whole thing.

They knew that what they were doing would cause an extreme response (bombs everywhere) to the extreme provocation (murdering babies and raping women).

[BrickHorn 18186]

11 minutes ago, troph said:

I said assuming.

Huh. Weird. Not sure why I thought to make a whole sarcastic post about the dangers of assuming things when you said all along that you were assuming something. Sorry about that. 

[SimonBolivar 10911]

27 minutes ago, statsman said:

Possibilities:

IDF missile

Hamas missile misfire

Hamas missile intercepted by IDF (Iron Dome?)

Question- does the Iron Dome intercept Israel-bound missiles while over Gaza, or West Bank, or Lebanon? I hadn’t really thought of that, but if so, I can’t really carp. 

Shocked you didn't throw in a @Brisketexan stopped at Allsup's as a choice.

[Telegraph_it 3354]

Lots of geolocating. I won’t pretend to know the veracity. I somehow haven’t managed to travel to Gaza. 
 

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I'm starting to think Israel isn't going to launch a ground offensive.

[52-80 19081]

56 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Just one clarification to the tweet in your post, the person described as the US ambassador to Israel is the Israeli ambassador to the US.  Get your together twitter.  Embeds from that hellsite should have been disabled a long time ago. 

If reputable news sources are saying different (“wrong”) things, and govt authorities are (obviously) saying different things, which entity would you trust to police the hellsite?…instead of letting it get ‘litigated’ in the open like it is now 

 

[Anastasis 23393]

16 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If reputable news sources are saying different (“wrong”) things, and govt authorities are (obviously) saying different things, which entity would you trust to police the hellsite?…instead of letting it get ‘litigated’ in the open like it is now 

 

Just turn off Twitter embeds and let the god of your choosing sort it out. 

[Anastasis 23393]

35 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I'm starting to think Israel isn't going to launch a ground offensive.

I hope this is right. Biden appears to be tamping shit down, or maybe it is primary driven by concerns around opening up some shit in the north. Either way, hope it can play out in a way that reduces the collateral damage. 

[BLKNSTY 289]

i can’t see how it isn’t an israeli missile. every single video I’ve seen of a hamas rocket explosion seems like it has barely enough explosive power to light a couple smart cars on fire. like a dozen grenades or so tied together.
this one just wiped the whole hospital and a cool thousand people off the face of the map, I know hospitals keep lots of pressurized o2 but damn.
i think this is going to be huge turning point, no way the millions of the locally displaced palestinians don’t crank up the pressure in jordan/egypt/lebanon/syria. can’t see israel launching a ground invasion of gaza now.

[troph 24562]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Huh. Weird. Not sure why I thought to make a whole sarcastic post about the dangers of assuming things when you said all along that you were assuming something. Sorry about that. 

sweet fucking jesus. it's a stupid message board with people saying all kinds of shit like over a beer, at lunch or just mouthing off with friends. go try and pee on someone else's leg. there is reason to believe it's a hamas rocket, that's not entirely out of the realm of possibility when dealing with terrorists with their tactics and with a culture that doesn't give a shit about Palestinians.

and look, assuming it's Israel, then fuck them, they can expect their support to erode. you don't fucking bomb hospitals. send in special forces and put a bullet in the head of the guy too cowardly to hide anywhere other than a hospital basement if you have to but don't launch precision guided missiles at a fucking hospital to kill 2-3 leaders. and if you're bombing hospitals just to bomb hospitals then double fuck you straight to hell and a public condemnation from the oval office and withdrawing of aid.

you gonna call me out now for assuming it's Israel?  are you?

Edited October 17, 2023 by troph

[troph 24562]

44 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I'm starting to think Israel isn't going to launch a ground offensive.

don't assume it for purposes of discussion on a shitty message board, you'll get raked.

but yeah, I agree and that would be best, assuming they can decapitate Hamas effectively without it. not only would it save some civilian lives, it would potentially prevent WW3.

[Anastasis 23393]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

s, it would potentially prevent WW3.

Probably why we have a couple carrier groups moving into the region. No one wants to see some tactical/battlefield nukes deployed if shit gets too spicy. Better to snuff that out. 

[Newdoc 3429]

18 minutes ago, BLKNSTY said:

i can’t see how it isn’t an israeli missile. every single video I’ve seen of a hamas rocket explosion seems like it has barely enough explosive power to light a couple smart cars on fire. like a dozen grenades or so tied together.

I guess it’s alright to throw monkey poo prognostication on a football board but there seems to be a trend of this explosion pointing right back at Hamas or their allies. 

[Bevo 13525]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

don't assume it for purposes of discussion on a shitty message board, you'll get raked.

but yeah, I agree and that would be best, assuming they can decapitate Hamas effectively without it. not only would it save some civilian lives, it would potentially prevent WW3.

 

 

That assumes that Israel and the US don't want to go after the Iranian nuclear weapons program. And that assumption is probably correct because of oil prices and election season and because of Turkey and our military presence there. Israel will take the upcoming Hezbollah attacks and fight back locally against them. And, in a few weeks it will probably be business as usual with probably a new clandestine plan against Iran and the re-institution of sanctions. I guess the key in all this is the return of hostages.

[BLKNSTY 289]

I guess it’s alright to throw monkey poo prognostication on a football board but there seems to be a trend of this explosion pointing right back at Hamas or their allies. 

perhaps, but if hamas really has level a five-story building with a single explosive firepower - israel needs to rethink a few things. I don’t think Biden should be in the area either.

[CleverNickname 1291]

I dont know shit, but a misfire soon after launch would have all the propellant explode, whereas when it putters into some Haifa neighborhood, everything is spent but the warhead itself.

[Welshy 907]

 

So...did Israel decide to blow up a hospital? Seems like a reach. If they didn't, all outcomes are a result of the violent rape and brutalization committed by Hamas. 

Look, I've read 5, maybe 6 EXHAUSTIVE twitter threads, closely examining every detail presented. I pretty much know everything there is to know about misfires and interceptions, geo-political conflict and Brittian causing all this... In all humility, I'm an expert. 

As an acknowledged weapons and geo-political expert, here's what I can say: lot's of people are going to die. Some will be hurt after they have already been hurt, say in a hospital, and some will be completely healthy before they are hurt. There will be a lot more than 200 innocent deaths here. 

Thank gawd those Gazan filmmakers had enough electricity to charge their phones. Crazy when there has been no electricity for more than a week. ERCOT goes out for a day and all my shit is dead.

It all ends when two giant boats unload enough armament on Iran.

Also, free Palestine, Israel and the Republican party from corrupt douche bags. 

[SimonBolivar 10911]

6 minutes ago, Welshy said:

 

 

Thank gawd those Gazan filmmakers had enough electricity to charge their phones. Crazy when there has been no electricity for more than a week. ERCOT goes out for a day and all my shit is dead.

. 

They're craftier than we are buying all those personal sized solar panels. You'd thinknafter our ERCOT experiences we'd do the same.

[Parliament 14128]

3 hours ago, troph said:

assuming it's hamas, this is what happens when you install military systems next to your fucking hospitals you fucking morans.

And use SpaceX rockeets.

[squib 1120]

4 hours ago, Woodrow Call said:

A good friend of ours is one of the primary advisors to the crown prince of an Arab country. He went to law school in the U.S. with my son. He says things are as tense as they can get. All hands on deck. Terribly worried about escalation. 

Newt went to law school? He should have sued the shit out of Dish for that ass whoopin' in Montana. 

[jdhorn92 1538]

5 hours ago, NoName said:

from an hour ago re: that video you posted

edit: war cabinet member coming out and saying it as well, so not just IDF spokesman

edit2: BN saying it now too

also another video of the potential explosion

one of the accounts i follow is trying to tie this shot to some of the wider gaza skyline livestreams currently before the footage goes down

he just RTd this, but not 100% sure timeframes match up?

edit2: more info on failed rocket, looking more likely

 

another video cross referencing the one shot from the balcony above

 

That barrage video showing the projectiles in unison and then the explosion is pretty damning for the Islamic Jihad.

[Slacks 6791]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I'm starting to think Israel isn't going to launch a ground offensive.

All I can hear is, "Prepare for a ground assault," as if I'm in Echo Base. 

[Slacks 6791]

1 hour ago, Welshy said:

 

So...did Israel decide to blow up a hospital? Seems like a reach. If they didn't, all outcomes are a result of the violent rape and brutalization committed by Hamas. 

Look, I've read 5, maybe 6 EXHAUSTIVE twitter threads, closely examining every detail presented. I pretty much know everything there is to know about misfires and interceptions, geo-political conflict and Brittian causing all this... In all humility, I'm an expert. 

As an acknowledged weapons and geo-political expert, here's what I can say: lot's of people are going to die. Some will be hurt after they have already been hurt, say in a hospital, and some will be completely healthy before they are hurt. There will be a lot more than 200 innocent deaths here. 

Thank gawd those Gazan filmmakers had enough electricity to charge their phones. Crazy when there has been no electricity for more than a week. ERCOT goes out for a day and all my shit is dead.

It all ends when two giant boats unload enough armament on Iran.

Also, free Palestine, Israel and the Republican party from corrupt douche bags. 

[Viper 12025]

 

Here's a story for you about how the news industry works.

Earlier tonight, the group that invaded Israel, massacred 1000+ people, burned families to death in their homes, took hostages back to Gaza, and recorded it all with GoPros – this group announced that Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza, killing hundreds.

Then, instead of waiting for more information from the Israeli side, the editors of the world's most important media outlets said to themselves: "This is enough for us. Let's run with it."

Headlines screamed that Israel bombed a hospital. Push notifications were sent to MILLIONS of people.

CNN push: "Hundreds of people may have been killed in an Israeli strike on a Gaza City hospital, according to the Palestinian health ministry"

BBC push: "Hundreds feared dead or injured in Israeli air strike on hospital in Gaza, Palestinian officials say"

NYT push: "At least 500 people were killed by an Israeli airstrike at a Gaza hospital, the Palestinian Health Ministry said"

Do you see what they did there?

They put the dramatic news in the beginning of the sentence and then they cited the source at the end so that the assertion is technically true. The Palestinian Health Ministry DID say that.

The thing is, the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza is a Hamas institution.

What do you call people who amplify Hamas propaganda not just as news, but as the top news story in the world?

There is no way that a professional military such as the Israel Defense Forces can give an instant answer about a catastrophe in enemy territory during a war. It took around two or three hours for the IDF to share the results of its initial investigation – that the explosion at the hospital was a due to a rocket launched by Islamic Jihad that malfunctioned and crashed back into Gaza. More evidence is coming out as I write this.

The sad fact is that it appears that hundreds of Palestinians are dead at a hospital because terrorists in Gaza tried to fire rockets at Israelis and ended up hitting their own people. It's unbearably stupid and tragic.

None of this is new, unfortunately. Journalists in the Middle East know – they absolutely know – that a significant percentage of Hamas and Islamic Jihad’s rockets misfire and crash into residential areas of Gaza. 

I've attached a famous example. This video is from May 2022. It shows a live broadcast of a rocket being launched from a residential area of Gaza. The rocket malfunctions, turns sideways, and crashes into the city. The overexcited broadcaster tries to pretend that nothing unusual happened and asks the camera man to turn away. The video went viral at the time. There are other known instances where this happened. 

These rockets are designed to kill people. Don't act surprised when they do.

I say all of this to remind you to treat breaking news from Gaza with caution, even if it's unpopular to do so.

[Welshy 907]

CNNK5H?

[statsman 5421]

10 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

Here's a story for you about how the news industry works.

Earlier tonight, the group that invaded Israel, massacred 1000+ people, burned families to death in their homes, took hostages back to Gaza, and recorded it all with GoPros – this group announced that Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza, killing hundreds.

Then, instead of waiting for more information from the Israeli side, the editors of the world's most important media outlets said to themselves: "This is enough for us. Let's run with it."

Headlines screamed that Israel bombed a hospital. Push notifications were sent to MILLIONS of people.

CNN push: "Hundreds of people may have been killed in an Israeli strike on a Gaza City hospital, according to the Palestinian health ministry"

BBC push: "Hundreds feared dead or injured in Israeli air strike on hospital in Gaza, Palestinian officials say"

NYT push: "At least 500 people were killed by an Israeli airstrike at a Gaza hospital, the Palestinian Health Ministry said"

Do you see what they did there?

They put the dramatic news in the beginning of the sentence and then they cited the source at the end so that the assertion is technically true. The Palestinian Health Ministry DID say that.

The thing is, the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza is a Hamas institution.

What do you call people who amplify Hamas propaganda not just as news, but as the top news story in the world?

There is no way that a professional military such as the Israel Defense Forces can give an instant answer about a catastrophe in enemy territory during a war. It took around two or three hours for the IDF to share the results of its initial investigation – that the explosion at the hospital was a due to a rocket launched by Islamic Jihad that malfunctioned and crashed back into Gaza. More evidence is coming out as I write this.

The sad fact is that it appears that hundreds of Palestinians are dead at a hospital because terrorists in Gaza tried to fire rockets at Israelis and ended up hitting their own people. It's unbearably stupid and tragic.

None of this is new, unfortunately. Journalists in the Middle East know – they absolutely know – that a significant percentage of Hamas and Islamic Jihad’s rockets misfire and crash into residential areas of Gaza. 

I've attached a famous example. This video is from May 2022. It shows a live broadcast of a rocket being launched from a residential area of Gaza. The rocket malfunctions, turns sideways, and crashes into the city. The overexcited broadcaster tries to pretend that nothing unusual happened and asks the camera man to turn away. The video went viral at the time. There are other known instances where this happened. 

These rockets are designed to kill people. Don't act surprised when they do.

I say all of this to remind you to treat breaking news from Gaza with caution, even if it's unpopular to do so.

I imagine Hamas will run the forensic investigation the same way Russia ran the investigation the 777 they shot down over Ukraine in 2014, not allowing any help, and coming to similar conclusions. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by statsman

[Buzzrock 14870]

For those wanting to avoid Twitter bullshit, I'm finding the Live Update page from Haaretz to be helpful. Their updates are coming in fast and furious. I'm not posting the link because the URL changes periodically with major news. 
Go to the Haaretz homepage: https://www.haaretz.com/ and click the below. Refresh as needed. No paywall.
 

Haaretz leans very hard in one direction. But Al Jazeera links seem to be ok here too and they are Qatari state media.

I don’t envy the mods task here, but what passes as objective in the DT?

[troph 24562]

Aljazeera English has definitely stated Israel bombed the hospital. So I think that settles it. Bias aside it’s actually pretty good coverage. 

[rage-a-holic 4306]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

Aljazeera English has definitely stated Israel bombed the hospital. So I think that settles it. Bias aside it’s actually pretty good coverage.