Israel-Hamas war thread

[Anastasis 23723]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the next level is IDF package bombs in manhattan.....   wait; wut?

eek. I can't go there with you man, sounds not too far a stones thrown from AZC/AIPAC, FARA, Kennedy assassination stuff man. 

[InkaUtexas 26909]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Biggest news week on this thread. NYT told me so yesterday. 

Gaza has been the deadliest place for aid workers since the Oct. 7 attacks. According to the Aid Worker Security Database, a compilation of data on attacks funded by the United States Agency for International Development, 203 aid workers have been killed in Gaza since the war started. All were Palestinian, except for six of the World Central Kitchen workers most recently killed, who were citizens of Australia, the United States, Canada, Poland and Britain. 

 

So post that vs. your hot takes.

[Anastasis 23723]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So post that vs. your hot takes.

Don't go soft now Inka. Lots of news links posted last couple pages. Haaretz, CBS, NYT, WH.gov, etc. If you want to call out hot takes maybe you can find focus elsewhere. 

[InkaUtexas 26909]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Don't go soft now Inka. Lots of news links posted last couple pages. Haaretz, CBS, NYT, WH.gov, etc. If you want to call out hot takes maybe you can find focus elsewhere. 

When have I ever been soft? Don't remember you posting shit about Sudan, Haiti, Burma.

I have stood my ground so foooooccccckkkkk offf.

[Anastasis 23723]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

When have I ever been soft?

When you started complaining about hot takes on this thread to me. 

eta: and whining to mods. 

Edited April 4 by Anastasis

[InkaUtexas 26909]

Fuck off man. You want hot takes? So talk about the other things.

One trick pony. So when did you post about other things?

Most of us agree with you. But we focus on news or discussing it.

And yes, I don't want this thread to be about politics. I like the UA thread that was monitored well. Can we have two?

 

 

[Anastasis 23723]

21 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So talk about the other things.

One trick pony. So when did you post about other things?

You want to talk about Sudan, Haiti, and Burma? Are we arming ethnic cleansing there too? Man a what a fucking world. Yeah, I am against that. It's not hard to be against the US arming ethnic cleansing. I know you agree, and glad others are coming along. Americans being maybe a bit dogmatic about not arming ethnic cleansing operations should come pretty naturally to non-sociopaths. If the same is occurring in those other countries and you want to talk about them, start those threads and watch them die from from lack of board interest, think about why that is, and then get back to me. I did it wrt US arming SA operations in Yemen on the other sub. 

Edited April 4 by Anastasis

[InkaUtexas 26909]

You got no clue.

 

 

[statsman 5693]

President Biden is set to speak with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as pressure mounts on Israel over the killing of aid workers in Gaza
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/biden-netanyahu-set-to-talk-as-gaza-aid-worker-deaths-add-to-pressure-on-israel-9dee3793?st=3ib9pj7mlwlsvt1&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

[statsman 5693]

I don’t believe this is CR, because I’m asking a procedural question, not a political one -

In a parliamentary system, I know they have elections on a schedule, and that the coalition government can call early elections (only done when polls show opportune times). If a coalition breaks because a minority party makes a break from it, does that require a fresh general election?

Edited April 4 by statsman

[956 Worldwide 35598]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

I don’t believe this is CR, because I’m asking a procedural question, not a political one -

In a parliamentary system, I know they have elections on a schedule, and that the coalition government can call early elections (only done when polls show opportune times). If a coalition breaks because a minority party makes a break from it, does that require a fresh general election?

If a minority party leaves a coalition then it can force early elections by calling for a vote of no confidence, but they don’t always want to do that. If they don’t call for a vote of no confidence then the government can continue as a minority government. If they win a vote of no confidence then usually you’ll get a caretaker government appointed until there is a fresh election. 

[Parliament 14599]

6 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

So post that vs. your hot takes.

 

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

When have I ever been soft? Don't remember you posting shit about Sudan, Haiti, Burma.

I have stood my ground so foooooccccckkkkk offf.

 

4 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fuck off man. You want hot takes? So talk about the other things.

One trick pony. So when did you post about other things?

Most of us agree with you. But we focus on news or discussing it.

And yes, I don't want this thread to be about politics. I like the UA thread that was monitored well. Can we have two?

 

 

I went soft a long time ago and put a buncha guys on ignore.  I suggest you do the same.  Arguing with those doofuses will literally shorten your life, Brother.

[956 Worldwide 35598]

I should add that there are other options as well, like the majority partner cobbling together another coalition after a vote of no confidence, or a new coalition coming together.  But for a minority party to force general elections they have to begin with a vote of no confidence. 

[statsman 5693]

12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

If a minority party leaves a coalition then it can force early elections by calling for a vote of no confidence, but they don’t always want to do that. If they don’t call for a vote of no confidence then the government can continue as a minority government. If they win a vote of no confidence then usually you’ll get a caretaker government appointed until there is a fresh election. 

Thanks. Then, I’m guessing a nation typically won’t have that happen in an active war. 

[956 Worldwide 35598]

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fuck off man. You want hot takes? So talk about the other things.

One trick pony. So when did you post about other things?

Most of us agree with you. But we focus on news or discussing it.

And yes, I don't want this thread to be about politics. I like the UA thread that was monitored well. Can we have two?

 

 

Anastasis is in here calling everyone racist and then announcing that he doesn’t give a shit about dead people unless he can blame the United States for killing them, which is super awesome. 
 

Its. Not. About. Palestine. 

[bolverk 30349]

Senior UK jurists have joined calls to stop arms sales to Israel. Other allies face similar pressure

LONDON (AP) — More than 600 British jurists, including three retired judges from the U.K. Supreme Court, are calling on the government to suspend arms sales to Israel, piling pressure on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak after the deaths of three U.K. aid workers in an Israeli strike.

Britain is just one of a number of Israel’s longstanding allies whose governments are under growing pressure to halt weapons exports because of the toll of the six-month-old war in Gaza.

In an open letter to Sunak published late Wednesday, the lawyers and judges said the U.K. could be complicit in “grave breaches of international law” if it continues to ship weapons.

Signatories, including former Supreme Court President Brenda Hale, said Britain is legally obliged to heed the International Court of Justice’s conclusion that there is a “plausible risk of genocide” in Gaza.

The letter said the “sale of weapons and weapons systems to Israel … falls significantly short of your government’s obligations under international law.”

Britain is a staunch ally of Israel, but relations have been tested by the mounting death toll, largely civilian, from the war. Calls for an end to arms exports have escalated since an Israeli airstrike killed seven aid workers from the aid charity World Central Kitchen, three of them British.

Israel says the attack on the aid workers was a mistake caused by “misidentification.”

The U.K.’s main opposition parties have all said the Conservative government should halt weapons sales to Israel if the country has broken international law in Gaza.

Several senior Conservatives have urged the same, including Alicia Kearns, who heads the House of Commons foreign affairs committee.

Sunak has not committed to an arms export ban, but said Wednesday that “while of course we defend Israel’s right to defend itself and its people against attacks from Hamas, they have to do that in accordance with international humanitarian law.”

British firms sell a relatively small amount of weapons and components to Israel. Defense Secretary Grant Shapps has said that military exports to Israel amounted to 42 million pounds ($53 million) in 2022.

Other allies of Israel are also facing calls to cut off the supply of weapons and to push for a cease-fire in the conflict, which has killed more than 32,000 Palestinians, according to health authorities in Gaza.

In February, Canada announced it would stop future shipments, and the same month a Dutch court ordered the Netherlands to stop the export of F-35 fighter jet parts to Israel. The Dutch government said it would appeal.

Other countries, including Israel’s two biggest arms suppliers, the United States and Germany, continue to allow weapons sales.

Peter Ricketts, a former U.K. national security advisor, said suspension of U.K. arms sales would not change the course of the war, but “would be a powerful political message.”

“And it might just stimulate debate in the U.S. as well, which would be the real game-changer,” he told the BBC.

[utee94 16091]

5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

If a minority party leaves a coalition then it can force early elections by calling for a vote of no confidence, but they don’t always want to do that. If they don’t call for a vote of no confidence then the government can continue as a minority government. If they win a vote of no confidence then usually you’ll get a caretaker government appointed until there is a fresh election. 

[Poester 108]

6 hours ago, statsman said:

I don’t believe this is CR, because I’m asking a procedural question, not a political one -

In a parliamentary system, I know they have elections on a schedule, and that the coalition government can call early elections (only done when polls show opportune times). If a coalition breaks because a minority party makes a break from it, does that require a fresh general election?

I’m having a hard time understanding this obsession with forcing an election. Gantz would pursue the exact same military strategy. 

[HouTex 1943]

55 minutes ago, Poester said:

I’m having a hard time understanding this obsession with forcing an election. Gantz would pursue the exact same military strategy. 

Well, some people just hate Bibi.  

[Brian Fantana 6869]

Yeah including most Israelis. I can't imagine why. I bet you could find out with this newfangled contraption they call Google.

[InkaUtexas 26909]

8 hours ago, Parliament said:

 

 

I went soft a long time ago and put a buncha guys on ignore.  I suggest you do the same.  Arguing with those doofuses will literally shorten your life, Brother.

Just a test. Am I on ignore?

 

[Parliament 14599]

7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Just a test. Am I on ignore?

 

Definitely not.  Kinda hard to troll you with dumb questions when I can't see your posts.

Edited April 4 by Parliament

[Anastasis 23723]

11 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Anastasis is in here calling everyone racist and then announcing that he doesn’t give a shit about dead people unless he can blame the United States for killing them, which is super awesome. 
 

Its. Not. About. Palestine. 

Unsurprising. Dishonesty, sociopathic projection, and propaganda artistry all in one post. Must be 956.  

[Anastasis 23723]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/04/world/middleeast/israel-wck-gaza-iran-embassy.html?

Back-to-Back Israeli Strikes Show Tragic Gaps in Choosing Targets

In an airstrike on Monday in Damascus, Israel’s military displayed pinpoint precision. Hours later in Gaza, that same military killed seven aid workers.

About 5 p.m. on Monday, Israeli warplanes streaked across the Syrian border, striking an embassy building in Damascus and killing a cadre of senior Iranian military commanders with the kind of pinpoint accuracy that has earned Israel’s military fear and respect across the Middle East.

Several hours later, the same Israeli military rained missiles on an aid convoy on a coastal road in the Gaza Strip, a botched operation that left seven foreign aid workers dead and Israel’s reputation in tatters. Its leaders were forced to admit to a string of lethal mistakes and misjudgments.

How one of the world’s best-equipped, best-trained militaries could pull off a dangerous strike on foreign soil and then stumble with such tragic consequences in Gaza raises a raft of hard questions — not least how the Israeli military enforces the rules of engagement in its war against Hamas.

 

 

Its a real head scratcher, right? Free full text article at link. 

[InkaUtexas 26909]

Please take your hot takes to the CR. All of these actions have been discussed on this thread. Some like to discuss, you push your vision.

 

[InkaUtexas 26909]

42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Unsurprising. Dishonesty, sociopathic projection, and propaganda artistry all in one post. Must be 956.  

And you are? Never seen you post in Global Spring.

 

[Anastasis 23723]

17 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Please take your hot takes to the CR. All of these actions have been discussed on this thread. Some like to discuss, you push your vision.

It's a NYT article published today. You got a poster on the last page defending "genocide as long as no one gets killed" and plenty of other posters rightfully talking about the ethnic cleansing taking place right now in response. But you want to whine to me. Come on Inka. 

[Anastasis 23723]

25 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

And you are? Never seen you post in Global Spring.

 

Funny, cause you repped me on that thread. Not sure why you've gone on tilt. 

[Anastasis 23723]

I am sorry guys, I know its a beating to see the same avatar over and over and over again. No commentary so diapers are unsoiled hopefully. But its the news thread so here you go:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-looking-report-that-israel-used-ai-identify-bombing-targets-gaza-2024-04-04/

WASHINGTON, April 4 (Reuters) - The United States was looking into a media report that the Israeli military has been using artificial intelligence to help identify bombing targets in Gaza, White House national security spokesperson John Kirby told CNN on Thursday.

Kirby, in the CNN interview, said the U.S. had not verified the content of the media report published in +972 Magazine and Local Call, opens new tab on Wednesday. It cited Israeli intelligence officials involved in the reported program known as "Lavender."

The media report said the Israeli army had marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using the AI system with little human oversight.

The Israeli Defense Forces denies that AI was used to identify suspected extremists and targets.

"The IDF does not use an artificial intelligence system that identifies terrorist operatives or tries to predict whether a person is a terrorist. Information systems are merely tools for analysts in the target identification process," the IDF said in a statement.

The statement added that IDF directives mandate analysts to conduct independent examinations, in which they verify that the identified targets meet the relevant definitions in line with international law and Israeli guidelines.

[statsman 5693]

The Israeli drone team that killed seven aid workers lacked the evidence to order the strikes and twice violated the military’s operating rules, an Israeli military investigation found
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-to-allow-more-aid-into-gaza-after-biden-warning-over-u-s-support-49bc42e4?st=v362sr2qxf4viiw&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
 
I know the description doesn’t match the link title. They haven’t updated the link title yet. 

Edited April 5 by statsman

[statsman 5693]

The deadly airstrike on a convoy of aid workers in Gaza reveals the challenges and shortcomings of the safety measures Israeli forces have in place to protect civilians in war.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/world-central-kitchen-israel-gaza-military-d08b3bde?st=joexi5hme7oiqyx&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

[Ted Lange 16426]

 

 

[Ted Lange 16426]

 

 

[Brisketexan 106939]

11 hours ago, statsman said:

The Israeli drone team that killed seven aid workers lacked the evidence to order the strikes and twice violated the military’s operating rules, an Israeli military investigation found
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-to-allow-more-aid-into-gaza-after-biden-warning-over-u-s-support-49bc42e4?st=v362sr2qxf4viiw&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
 
I know the description doesn’t match the link title. They haven’t updated the link title yet. 

Here's the thing....I don't believe the official Israeli line here.  I think that it's more likely that the IDF was doing something pretty close to EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing, and that the fallout that we've seen (criticism and such) is acceptable "collateral damage" for Israel.

Israel got what it wanted: pretty much a full shutdown to aid to Gaza, which will necessarily force all Gazans to flee, completing Israel's goal of total ethnic cleansing.

And what did it cost Israel?  The careers of two officers that it threw under the bus.  And a stern talking-to by Biden.  That's a no-brainer calculus.  Israel just won that battle, soundly.

[Jatrain 288]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

 

 

If true…..awesome job by our “allies”.  Really getting our money’s worth.

 

[statsman 5693]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's the thing....I don't believe the official Israeli line here.  I think that it's more likely that the IDF was doing something pretty close to EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing, and that the fallout that we've seen (criticism and such) is acceptable "collateral damage" for Israel.

Israel got what it wanted: pretty much a full shutdown to aid to Gaza, which will necessarily force all Gazans to flee, completing Israel's goal of total ethnic cleansing.

And what did it cost Israel?  The careers of two officers that it threw under the bus.  And a stern talking-to by Biden.  That's a no-brainer calculus.  Israel just won that battle, soundly.

Funny. Iran feels the same way about the USS Vincennes shooting down a plane full of civilians. 
 
The US also killed an innocent family of ten with a drone strike, in a screwed up retaliation at ISIS, two years ago. 
 
Mistakes happen. They’re awful. Decent nations acknowledge them (Russia, on the other hand, still claims to not be at fault for shooting down the Dutch 777 or the Korean passenger plane)

[Anastasis 23723]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And what did it cost Israel?  The careers of two officers that it threw under the bus.  And a stern talking-to by Biden.  That's a no-brainer calculus.  Israel just won that battle, soundly.

At risk of hot taking, this is exactly right. But only because stern talking to means exactly that and has no real consequences. 

[Parliament 14599]

I know a ME going to crap would harm our allies directly and have serious ripple effects.  But.  What DIRECT impact does this shitshow have on America?  We don't need their oil.  We don't need their sand.  We're keeping the Red Sea open so Russia can haul oil to China.  What am I missing here?  Seems dumb.

[statsman 5693]

Oil is a commodity. That means global prices affect us. 

Edited April 6 by statsman

[statsman 5693]

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-ceasefire-negotiations-northern-gaza-return-5d2597cc?st=bynlbpz2kivkhf5&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

[MagicSoccerSpray 1736]

13 hours ago, Parliament said:

I know a ME going to crap would harm our allies directly and have serious ripple effects

 

You answered your own question. Every single ally and trade partner in the eastern hemisphere relies on oil from the ME. The international oil market, including oil prices in NA,  relies on ME oil for price stability. Populist isolationism is not a realistic choice.

[Hagbard Celine 11269]

this is what they're going with...  they claim the logos are not visible at night on top of the cars, which i know to be absolute bullshit

can the render a full-color "daylight" image absolutely not

but there are 10 countries on the planet that have the optics and algorithms to render shapes, color gradients and FUCKING ENGLISH WORDS from pitch black source imagery

+++

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572

Late on Thursday night, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) convened a meeting for a group of international journalists at the defence ministry building in Tel Aviv. The IDF then set out for us the results of their initial inquiry into the killing of seven aid workers in Gaza.

Retired Maj Gen Yoav Har-Even described how the IDF's drone operators mistook an aid worker carrying a bag for a gunman, and then targeted one of the World Central Kitchen vehicles with a missile.

The IDF then described how two people escaped that vehicle and got into a second car, which was hit by another missile from a drone.

The military confirmed that there were survivors from the second explosion, who managed to get into the third vehicle - which was then also hit by a missile.

By the end, all the aid workers were dead.

The IDF's investigation concluded that the army unit involved had believed the vehicles they were tracking from the sky had been taken over by Hamas gunmen, and that they were not aware of the coordination procedures put in place between the military and World Central Kitchen for that evening.

It also said they also did not know the cars belonged to the charity, and the three air strikes were in violation of the army's own procedures.

The evidence from the investigation has been passed to the Military Advocate General - the Israeli army's top legal authority - to determine if there has been any criminal conduct.

In addition, the army has sacked the major in charge of fire support. The brigade's chief of staff, a colonel, has also been sacked. The divisional commander, brigade commander and the general in charge of the IDF's Southern Command have been formally reprimanded.

The IDF sought to explain the context leading up to the fatal events of that evening.

The aid workers had been overseeing the distribution of food aid that had arrived on a ship from Cyprus and unloaded at a recently constructed jetty in the northern Gaza strip. Under coordination with the IDF, the World Central Kitchen team were transferring these supplies to a warehouse a few kilometres further south.

During this process, the IDF says their drone operators spotted a gunman riding on the roof of a large aid lorry that was being escorted by the WCK team. They played those of us at the briefing a somewhat blurry video - which has not been released to the public - showing a figure holding a gun, on top of the lorry. At one point the gun is fired, showing up clearly on the slowed-down black and white footage.

At this stage the military contacts World Central Kitchen but they are in turn unable to reach the team on the ground - where phone communication is patchy and aid agencies say they are prohibited by the IDF from using radios.

The drone footage also appears to confirm that at night, the stickers on the roof of the World Central Kitchen vehicles, with the charity's logo, are not visible to the drone operator.

The military then tracks the convoy, including the aid lorry, to a warehouse. Then the convoy splits - the aid lorry remains in the warehouse and four SUV-type cars emerge. One of those vehicles heads north, and is then shown to contain gunmen, with weapons clearly visible from the drone footage, as they emerge next to another aid warehouse. The IDF say that these gunmen were not targeted, because of their proximity to an aid facility.

Meanwhile, three remaining vehicles belonging to World Central Kitchen begin to head south.

The drone team, the army says, now working under the assumption that they are dealing with Hamas militants and not an aid convoy, had misidentified one of the aid workers as a gunman, and claimed to have seen them enter one of the three WCK cars.

No footage of this moment was provided, but the military investigation concluded that it was a "misclassification... they saw that it's a rifle but at the end of the day it was a bag".

Under the mistaken belief that one vehicle now contained a gunman, authorisation to fire a missile is sought, and granted by superior officers. At 23:09 the first vehicle is struck, two minutes later the second, and at 23:13 the third final, fatal strike is launched.

The military's conclusions are that three major failings occurred:

    The first is that the coordination plan agreed between the WCK and the IDF was not distributed down to operational level
    The second is that a suspicion that an armed man had entered one of the vehicles, was not enough to justify identifying it as a target
    The third failing was to continue firing after the first missile had struck the first car

 

[Brian Fantana 6869]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl

This article is referencing a paywalled (lol) Haaretz article:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-04/ty-article/.premium/doctor-at-idf-field-hospital-for-detained-gazans-we-are-all-complicit-in-breaking-law/0000018e-a59c-dfed-ad9f-afdfb5ce0000

[F250 29202]

4 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

The third failing was to continue firing after the first missile had struck the first car

 

Launching a second and third missle at aid vehicles is only a failure if they are talking about a moral failure. Otherwise, it's just a war crime.

[Schulz2.0 29282]

[Brian Fantana 6869]

I wish I was a dollar billionaire

[Bozo_Casanova 26867]

It could be bad, Ray

 

[Royalfan5 2384]

58 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It could be bad, Ray

 

What does Iran have that they can lob all the way across to Levant? 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

1 minute ago, Royalfan5 said:

What does Iran have that they can lob all the way across to Levant? 

Hezbollah.

[Ghost of LL 15698]

1 minute ago, Royalfan5 said:

What does Iran have that they can lob all the way across to Levant? 

A couple hundred thousand ballistic missiles and drones.