Israel-Hamas war thread

[InkaUtexas 25175]

11 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

One side is far worse than the other and you know it. There is no lower than Hamas. It’s a ridiculous comment he made and you gave him positive rep like a good compliant groupthink operator. 

Nope, what is interesting is we have talked about it and we do not agree on everything.

How do you judge which side is worse? Body count? Economics? Just curious.

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Nope, what is interesting is we have talked about it and we do not agree on everything.

How do you judge which side is worse? Body count? Economics? Just curious.

The side that is pure evil. See the post a few back where a Hamas leader encourages Palestinians to suicide bomb themselves around Jews. Body count?  I hope every Hamas member dies and it dwarfes Oct 7 and subsequent IDF deaths. People here will  that as evidence of a non-measured response. Well, they shouldn’t be measured. They shouldn’t cease firing. The equivalence lengths most posters here will go to is sickening, not reflective of reality, and reeks of an agenda. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

Are the calls for the removal of all Palestinians evil? Seizing land that has been farmed by communities for hundreds of years? What is the metric? The person in Qatar speaking out their ass or the one calling to drop a bomb next to a hospital?

[Rex Kramer 1260]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Are the calls for the removal of all Palestinians evil? Seizing land that has been farmed by communities for hundreds of years? What is the metric? The person in Qatar speaking out their ass or the one calling to drop a bomb next to a hospital?

Hamas is more evil. By far. Like the comparison is silly and you should feel bad for posting idiotic shit, and should shut the fuck up. 

Edited September 1 by Rex Kramer

[HellesBier 185]

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Are the calls for the removal of all Palestinians evil? Seizing land that has been farmed by communities for hundreds of years? What is the metric? The person in Qatar speaking out their ass or the one calling to drop a bomb next to a hospital?

You mean the hospitals that don’t really administer aid, trick the west into sending supplies to and then just steal said supplies while simultaneously holding hostages and storing weapons? Those hospitals?

[InkaUtexas 25175]

5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Hamas is more evil. By far. Like the comparison is silly and you should feel bad for posting idiotic shit, and should shut the fuck up. 

Ooooo... The big man. You sir, must be fun at parties.

"They are bad"

Why?

"Cuz they are bad. I said so."

 

3 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

You mean the hospitals that don’t really administer aid, trick the west into sending supplies to and then just steal said supplies while simultaneously holding hostages and storing weapons? Those hospitals?

Like those run by international groups? Yeah, those. The ones well documented as medical centers? Yep.

[HellesBier 185]

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Ooooo... The big man. You sir, must be fun at parties.

"They are bad"

Why?

"Cuz they are bad. I said so."

 

Like those run by international groups? Yeah, those. The ones well documented as medical centers? Yep.

Ah, those must be different from the ones used to house weapons and rape female hostages. I get confused because Hamas really sticks to law and order. Well they do if you’re a female walking alone without her hijab. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

5 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

Ah, those must be different from the ones used to house weapons and rape female hostages. I get confused because Hamas really sticks to law and order. Well they do if you’re a female walking alone without her hijab. 

This is funny. Everywhere is close to somewhere storing weapons in Gaza.

[HellesBier 185]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

This is funny. Everywhere is close to somewhere storing weapons in Gaza.

Alright, serious question. These people are never going to stop. A ceasefire stops this conflict and women and children live. 
 

Another one will start tomorrow. What is your solution?

[Rex Kramer 1260]

20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Ooooo... The big man. You sir, must be fun at parties.

"They are bad"

Why?

"Cuz they are bad. I said so."

Yeah either I said so, or I like most others have common sense. I’m sorry you’re a contrarian fuckwit. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

1 minute ago, HellesBier said:

Alright, serious question. These people are never going to stop. A ceasefire stops this conflict and women and children live. 
 

Another one will start tomorrow. What is your solution?

Two states. Militarized border. And the liquidation of Hamas using the IDF's SF/Mossad vs. 155mm shells and 2K bombs. Stop the settlements that are in violation of international agreements.

The issue now is this. Not everyone was Hamas. But keep this up and they will be.

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Two states. Militarized border.

Your solution to Oct 7 and the aftermath is give these people a state?  I know this is a popular refrain and you ostensibly have more geopolitical travel under your belt than most, but this is a pipe dream. It’s an insane proposition. Not only will it never happen, it shouldn’t. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Your solution to Oct 7 and the aftermath is give these people a state?  I know this is a popular refrain and you ostensibly have more geopolitical travel under your belt than most, but this is a pipe dream. It’s an insane proposition. Not only will it never happen, it shouldn’t. 

October 7 might not have happened if Israel has supported the PA more, and worked towards a two state solution.

So if not that, then what? Kill all Palestinians? Salt the land?

[HellesBier 185]

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Two states. Militarized border. And the liquidation of Hamas using the IDF's SF/Mossad vs. 155mm shells and 2K bombs. Stop the settlements that are in violation of international agreements.

The issue now is this. Not everyone was Hamas. But keep this up and they will be.

I watched Hurt Locker on my flight to Copenhagen last night. Reminds of the scene where the taxi pulls up and the driver eventually gets thrown on the ground and arrested. 

 

“If he wasn’t an insurgent he is now” 

 

Great quote. I don’t think militarized borders will do the trick. The problem is much greater and it somewhere starts and ends with Iran. Even more so it’s just the relationship between Islam and Judaism. If the Iranian regime was naturally replaced with good intoned politicians, do we really believe some other state wouldn’t sponsor terrorism? 
the only thing in my mind that makes me think no is that the Muslims in Qatar and UAE have figured out that fucking goats and living like it’s 1300 isn’t as cool as a fuck ton of money and if they want a fuck ton of money they have to attract foreign money and they’re doing a good job of it. I had 3 hours of sleep, I’m typing on my phone, I’m not proof reading this. 

[Rex Kramer 1260]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

October 7 might not have happened if Israel has supported the PA more, and worked towards a two state solution.

So if not that, then what? Kill all Palestinians? Salt the land?

I don’t care. The burden isn’t on me or the Israelis. It is on the group of people that elected a terrorist organization as its representatives 18 years ago. And a group of people that have continuously fires rockets at Israel that entire time and commits scores of terrorist acts against Israel. 

[HellesBier 185]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

October 7 might not have happened if Israel has supported the PA more, and worked towards a two state solution.

So if not that, then what? Kill all Palestinians? Salt the land?

Honestly, the latter would solve this very quickly. But like I said, that would just end this conflict, and it would likely up the involvement of players in the region. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

2 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

I watched Hurt Locker on my flight to Copenhagen last night. Reminds of the scene where the taxi pulls up and the driver eventually gets thrown on the ground and arrested. 

 

“If he wasn’t an insurgent he is now” 

 

Great quote. I don’t think militarized borders will do the trick. The problem is much greater and it somewhere starts and ends with Iran. Even more so it’s just the relationship between Islam and Judaism. If the Iranian regime was naturally replaced with good intoned politicians, do we really believe some other state wouldn’t sponsor terrorism? 
the only thing in my mind that makes me think no is that the Muslims in Qatar and UAE have figured out that fucking goats and living like it’s 1300 isn’t as cool as a fuck ton of money and if they want a fuck ton of money they have to attract foreign money and they’re doing a good job of it. I had 3 hours of sleep, I’m typing on my phone, I’m not proof reading this. 

On a different thread we can discuss Qatar and the UAE. hah, you think they are above playing both sides? On Friday morning in Dubai while you are sipping your mimosa the mosque down the street is blaring about the latest IDF atrocity (and the message was approved by the government). The Russian and Arab sitting next to you are negotiating a deal for some weapons. Sitting at the bar is the Emirati intel person making notes of it all. They do not care for it to end. They have always made $$$ on both sides. But recently they realized they could make a lot more if they pretended to be nice to Israel. Well that is not going well with these events.

At some point Israel and Iran may go at it. Won't change anything in Gaza. The solution has to be found there.

 

[Walser 1095]

5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t care. The burden isn’t on me or the Israelis. It is on the group of people that elected a terrorist organization as its representatives 18 years ago. And a group of people that have continuously fires rockets at Israel that entire time and commits scores of terrorist acts against Israel. 

Rex, I get you. Ideally a group of Palestinians would rise up and dethrone the bad actors. But that would most likely mean their death and the death of their family. It's a real shitshow.

Inka is a good dude btw.

[InkaUtexas 25175]

Just now, Walser said:

Rex, I get you. Ideally a group of Palestinians would rise up and dethrone the bad actors. But that would most likely mean their death and the death of their family. It's a real shitshow.

Inka is a good dude btw.

Thank you, but I give zero fucks what he thinks of me. He is calling for genocide.

[HellesBier 185]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

On a different thread we can discuss Qatar and the UAE. hah, you think they are above playing both sides? On Friday morning in Dubai while you are sipping your mimosa the mosque down the street is blaring about the latest IDF atrocity (and the message was approved by the government). The Russian and Arab sitting next to you are negotiating a deal for some weapons. Sitting at the bar is the Emirati intel person making notes of it all. They do not care for it to end. They have always made $$$ on both sides. But recently they realized they could make a lot more if they pretended to be nice to Israel. Well that is not going well with these events.

At some point Israel and Iran may go at it. Won't change anything in Gaza. The solution has to be found there.

 

Alright if we’re keeping it strictly yo Gaza and you truly want this to,end forever there is a solution but you and others won’t like it. History is riddled with societies that didn’t make it. You could say the same for Israel. As long as both parties are around it won’t stop. 
 

Next question for you as it seems you don’t have the stomach for one side or the other to actually finish things. Would you rather this conflict last forever?

Edited September 1 by HellesBier

[InkaUtexas 25175]

1 minute ago, HellesBier said:

Alright if we’re keeping it strictly yo Gaza and you truly want this to,end forever. There is a solution but you and others won’t like it. History is titled with societies that didn’t make it. Guess you could say the same for Israel. As long as both parties are around it won’t stop. 

Well the thread is about this conflict. So genocide. Come on, you can say it.

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, Walser said:

Rex, I get you. Ideally a group of Palestinians would rise up and dethrone the bad actors. But that would most likely mean their death and the death of their family. It's a real shitshow.

Inka is a good dude btw.

Understood on Palestinians caught up in this. I cannot stand the equivalency people here ascribe to IDF. And people get away with it because they’re a machine and Hamas is a joke of a military. I’m to the point where I’m so beaten by the status quo Surly thoughts that I’m just not gonna pull any punches any more. 

[Rex Kramer 1260]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Thank you, but I give zero fucks what he thinks of me. He is calling for genocide.

lol. When someone pushes back on you simple dumbfucks, you accuse them of genocide advocacy. Fuck your mother. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

Understood on Palestinians caught up in this. I cannot stand the equivalency people here ascribe to IDF. And people get away with it because they’re a machine and Hamas is a joke of a military. I’m to the point where I’m so beaten by the status quo Surly thoughts that I’m just not gonna pull any punches any more. 

I assume you have not read Rise and Strike First have you? Israel signed international agreements on human rights. They had an internal system up to the PM for targetting. They spent a lot of $$$ (not all theirs) on equipmetn for just that. And was designed to avoid this sort of thing. They made their own rules. When they do not follow them they should be called out for it. That is how democracies work.

[Walser 1095]

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Thank you, but I give zero fucks what he thinks of me. He is calling for genocide.

Hamas is not a military. They are a gang holding their people hostage.

My grandfather almost got a bullet in the back of the head. This is close to me as well.

What would the US do? What will the US do now?

 

***nvm Inka I quoted the wrong post.

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

lol. When someone pushes back on you simple dumbfucks, you accuse them of genocide advocacy. Fuck your mother. 

Well this seems harsh lol.

Edited September 1 by Walser

[InkaUtexas 25175]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

lol. When someone pushes back on you simple dumbfucks, you accuse them of genocide advocacy. Fuck your mother. 

Bite my ass you pimple on a goats dick. My mother spent 25 years serving the US in rough places. And she passed away due to difficulties with those assignments.

And it is advocating for genocide.

[956 Worldwide 34190]

 

Quote

Israel's health ministry says the six hostages recovered from the Gaza Strip overnight were killed between 48 and 72 hours before their autopsy, meaning between Thursday and Friday morning.

It says that an examination carried out by Abu Kabir Forensic Institute found that all six hostages were shot multiple times from a close range.

The IDF has said that Hamas terrorists murdered the hostages shortly before troops located their bodies in a tunnel in Rafah.

 

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

I assume you have not read Rise and Strike First have you? Israel signed international agreements on human rights. They had an internal system up to the PM for targetting. They spent a lot of $$$ (not all theirs) on equipmetn for just that. And was designed to avoid this sort of thing. They made their own rules. When they do not follow them they should be called out for it. That is how democracies work.

Whatever. Call them out for it. Do not compare them to Hamas. There is no comparison. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

1 minute ago, Walser said:

Hamas is not a military. They are a gang holding their people hostage.

My grandfather almost got a bullet in the back of the head. This is close to me as well.

What would the US do? What will the US do now?

We would liquidate their leadership, and at the same time push a development project that would have mixed results. We would understand there will be a generation that will hate us, but slowly you can change that.

[InkaUtexas 25175]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

Whatever. Call them out for it. Do not compare them to Hamas. There is no comparison. 

It goes to the equivalency statement you made. Want to be a real military? Follow the rules. Want to be seen just like Hamas, do what you are doing.

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Bite my ass you pimple on a goats dick. My mother spent 25 years serving the US in rough places. And she passed away due to difficulties with those assignments.

And it is advocating for genocide.

It’s not advocating for genocide you disingenuous cunt. 

[Walser 1095]

Inka I quoted your response by mistake. I was taking issue with calling Hamas a state military.

[Walser 1095]

You guys wanna get a beer for the LSU game?

[Rex Kramer 1260]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

It goes to the equivalency statement you made. Want to be a real military? Follow the rules. Want to be seen just like Hamas, do what you are doing.

You can call them out for it. I can extend leniency given the duplicitous snake they’re fighting.  Both are reasonable takes. They aren’t seen as Hamas by anyone that doesn’t have an agenda, and/or isn’t retarded. You and Brisket and most of surly that comments on this topic has a rather thinly-veiled agenda. 

[Rex Kramer 1260]

1 minute ago, Walser said:

You guys wanna get a beer for the LSU game?

@InkaUtexasI’m sorry for the random mom shot. Mike passed away 24 years ago this summer at age 47. She would’ve been 72 Friday. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You can call them out for it. I can extend leniency given the duplicitous snake they’re fighting.  Both are reasonable takes. They aren’t seen as Hamas by anyone that doesn’t have an agenda, and/or isn’t retarded. You and Brisket and most of surly that comments on this topic has a rather thinly-veiled agenda. 

Interesting. I know quite a few retired US SF officers who see them as a rogue military, violating human rights vs. civilians, and do equate them to Hamas in tactics and strategy. Both need casualties to survive. Sad but true.

[HellesBier 185]

11 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Well the thread is about this conflict. So genocide. Come on, you can say it.

This is quite a jump and I don’t know why there isn’t some understanding of a middle ground. I stated the easiest way for this to be over on either side is pretty simple and if it doesn’t happen this war will just go on and more women and children will die over the course of the next 5000 years. You probably would have protested the atomic bombs being used. Much like Dr Oppenheimer said that using such force would convince the world into peace. Sometimes the noblest pursuit isnt the best route. 

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Interesting. I know quite a few retired US SF officers who see them as a rogue military, violating human rights vs. civilians, and do equate them to Hamas in tactics and strategy. Both need casualties to survive. Sad but true.

Are they the transgender ones doing TikTok videos because that would make sense. 

[InkaUtexas 25175]

1 minute ago, HellesBier said:

This is quite a jump and I don’t know why there isn’t some understanding of a middle ground. I stated the easiest way for this to be over on either side is pretty simple and if it doesn’t happen this war will just go on and more women and children will die over the course of the next 5000 years. You probably would have protested the atomic bombs being used. Much like Dr Oppenheimer said that using such force would convince the world into peace. Sometimes the noblest pursuit isnt the best route. 

Are they the transgender ones doing TikTok videos because that would make sense. 

If they are they would still kick your skinny jean wearing eastern european ass. Want me to set up  meeting for you?

So easiest way is to remove Palestinians? But any means?

[Rex Kramer 1260]

8 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Interesting. I know quite a few retired US SF officers who see them as a rogue military, violating human rights vs. civilians, and do equate them to Hamas in tactics and strategy. Both need casualties to survive. Sad but true.

We will never agree. Let’s just stop. 

Edit: I know I’m correct. I’ve been 100% correct the whole time. 

Edited September 1 by Rex Kramer

[InkaUtexas 25175]

You are correct. We won't.

[HellesBier 185]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

If they are they would still kick your skinny jean wearing eastern european ass. Want me to set up  meeting for you?

So easiest way is to remove Palestinians? But any means?

Woof, resorting to internet tough guy talk.

Typically speaking, I would take about any Eastern European over an American in terms of toughness. I mean, it sounds like not only would you suck dick but you would fondle the balls in the name of protecting people who will be setting off bombs in a train that your grandchildren could be in. I know the Polish wouldn’t think that way. But hey I guess this is a long way to go to say I’ll take my chances. Especially if they are Army. 

[HellesBier 185]

You ever seen the movie “The Patriot”? I assume you have. I assume you can understand the justice one wants should they have to suffer burying their children.

6 hostages were found today murdered. Now I’m sure you’re going to retort with some sort of conspiracy or how it’s a political tool so let’s get in front of that. 
 

But if one of them was your 24 year old daughter, what lengths would you go to to feel at Peace? The world should fear the lengths I would go to to make sure those people felt slow slow pain. A bomb would be too quick a deaths 

Edited September 1 by HellesBier

[ABSR 5281]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Are the calls for the removal of all Palestinians evil? Seizing land that has been farmed by communities for hundreds of years? What is the metric? The person in Qatar speaking out their ass or the one calling to drop a bomb next to a hospital?

He’s calling for the removal of Hamas who want to steal from their people and live lives of luxury while calling for hate and death to an entire people while using their own people as human shields to try and use normal humanities sense of decency as protection.   And then telling the same people who they exploit to sacrifice themselves so they can continue to exploit them and continue to add no positive values  to their lives.

Not saying Israel is great or blameless….but facts.  

[Bevo 13465]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 

 

 

Can you imagine being a hostage for that long - being raped and tortured for almost a year - and then shot right before you were able to be rescued?

[unoriginal 55]

39 minutes ago, ABSR said:

He’s calling for the removal of Hamas who want to steal from their people and live lives of luxury while calling for hate and death to an entire people while using their own people as human shields to try and use normal humanities sense of decency as protection.   And then telling the same people who they exploit to sacrifice themselves so they can continue to exploit them and continue to add no positive values  to their lives.

Not saying Israel is great or blameless….but facts.  

Israel intentionally props up Hamas.

 

Quote

In an interview with the Ynet news website on May 5, 2019, Netanyahu associate Gershon Hacohen, a major general in reserves, said, “We need to tell the truth. Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”

https://archive.ph/lDTc4

[956 Worldwide 34190]

 

[Brisketexan 104194]

21 hours ago, HellesBier said:

But if one of them was your 24 year old daughter, what lengths would you go to to feel at Peace? The world should fear the lengths I would go to to make sure those people felt slow slow pain. A bomb would be too quick a deaths 

100%.  You state a correct and certain feeling of those connected to a murdered hostage.  It is a natural, expected, and 100% predictable human reaction.

Now....run that scenario for the parents of any of the thousands of Palestinians -- including countless children -- who have seen their bodies shattered by Israeli bombs.

You and Rex are not being honest.  You are supporting strategies and actions that can only result in the elimination -- not defeat, but elimination -- of the Palestinian people in the Levant.  Yet....you shriek at anyone who would even hint at you advocating for genocide (more accurately in this specific situation, "ethnic cleansing").

Pointing out that Israel at present has unclean hands, and that at present, Israel's policy is rather openly one of ethnic cleansing (and that policy has quite broad support among the Israeli population) does not in any way support, absolve, or say anything at all positive about Hamas.  Hamas and its leadership are pure shit, and evil incarnate.  Neither Inka nor I have said anything that would indicate that we think anything differently of Hamas.  What we are calling out -- and what you blindly support -- is Israeli conduct that that morally and ethically is not much different.  And you simply fall back on "it's justified" after the acts of October 7th.  A position that ignores 1) Israeli (Bibi) active complicity in supporting Hamas up till then (he needed an enemy, so he made sure to create one....he was very, very, very successful in that respect), 2) decades of Israeli oppression and brutality against Palestinians (again, Hamas, the PLO, etc., did the same and worse, but that doesn't change the hearts and minds of the people who suffer at the hands of that brutality, in either direction), and 3) incredible brutality and yes, open ethnic cleansing being committed by Israel right now, as we speak.

You may have done me very, very, very wrong.  You may have murdered my child, even.  If my response is to murder you, murder all of your family, burn down your house, burn the houses of everyone who knows you, and salt your land....perhaps I am acting beyond my justification.  Perhaps my path is a more of guarantee of future brutality and suffering than it is a path to justice and future peace.

[Brian Fantana 6649]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

100%.  You state a correct and certain feeling of those connected to a murdered hostage.  It is a natural, expected, and 100% predictable human reaction.

Now....run that scenario for the parents of any of the thousands of Palestinians -- including countless children -- who have seen their bodies shattered by Israeli bombs.

You and Rex are not being honest.  You are supporting strategies and actions that can only result in the elimination -- not defeat, but elimination -- of the Palestinian people in the Levant.  Yet....you shriek at anyone who would even hint at you advocating for genocide (more accurately in this specific situation, "ethnic cleansing").

Pointing out that Israel at present has unclean hands, and that at present, Israel's policy is rather openly one of ethnic cleansing (and that policy has quite broad support among the Israeli population) does not in any way support, absolve, or say anything at all positive about Hamas.  Hamas and its leadership are pure shit, and evil incarnate.  Neither Inka nor I have said anything that would indicate that we think anything differently of Hamas.  What we are calling out -- and what you blindly support -- is Israeli conduct that that morally and ethically is not much different.  And you simply fall back on "it's justified" after the acts of October 7th.  A position that ignores 1) Israeli (Bibi) active complicity in supporting Hamas up till then (he needed an enemy, so he made sure to create one....he was very, very, very successful in that respect), 2) decades of Israeli oppression and brutality against Palestinians (again, Hamas, the PLO, etc., did the same and worse, but that doesn't change the hearts and minds of the people who suffer at the hands of that brutality, in either direction), and 3) incredible brutality and yes, open ethnic cleansing being committed by Israel right now, as we speak.

You may have done me very, very, very wrong.  You may have murdered my child, even.  If my response is to murder you, murder all of your family, burn down your house, burn the houses of everyone who knows you, and salt your land....perhaps I am acting beyond my justification.  Perhaps my path is a more of guarantee of future brutality and suffering than it is a path to justice and future peace.

[HellesBier 185]

19 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

100%.  You state a correct and certain feeling of those connected to a murdered hostage.  It is a natural, expected, and 100% predictable human reaction.

Now....run that scenario for the parents of any of the thousands of Palestinians -- including countless children -- who have seen their bodies shattered by Israeli bombs.

You and Rex are not being honest.  You are supporting strategies and actions that can only result in the elimination -- not defeat, but elimination -- of the Palestinian people in the Levant.  Yet....you shriek at anyone who would even hint at you advocating for genocide (more accurately in this specific situation, "ethnic cleansing").

Pointing out that Israel at present has unclean hands, and that at present, Israel's policy is rather openly one of ethnic cleansing (and that policy has quite broad support among the Israeli population) does not in any way support, absolve, or say anything at all positive about Hamas.  Hamas and its leadership are pure shit, and evil incarnate.  Neither Inka nor I have said anything that would indicate that we think anything differently of Hamas.  What we are calling out -- and what you blindly support -- is Israeli conduct that that morally and ethically is not much different.  And you simply fall back on "it's justified" after the acts of October 7th.  A position that ignores 1) Israeli (Bibi) active complicity in supporting Hamas up till then (he needed an enemy, so he made sure to create one....he was very, very, very successful in that respect), 2) decades of Israeli oppression and brutality against Palestinians (again, Hamas, the PLO, etc., did the same and worse, but that doesn't change the hearts and minds of the people who suffer at the hands of that brutality, in either direction), and 3) incredible brutality and yes, open ethnic cleansing being committed by Israel right now, as we speak.

You may have done me very, very, very wrong.  You may have murdered my child, even.  If my response is to murder you, murder all of your family, burn down your house, burn the houses of everyone who knows you, and salt your land....perhaps I am acting beyond my justification.  Perhaps my path is a more of guarantee of future brutality and suffering than it is a path to justice and future peace.

It is the chicken or the egg. Youre taking neutrality and using that argument as some sort of morale superiority. You are not being honest if you believe there will be justice or peace. What we will see for sure is more suffering and death on both sides for a very long time. 

[Brisketexan 104194]

2 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

It is the chicken or the egg. Youre taking neutrality and using that argument as some sort of morale superiority.

You're not wrong.  Just understand that if you condemn Hamas for inhumane, criminal tactics, and killing civilians....Israel's current approach, both in actual actions taken and in broad public support for same, is a shitload of the good old meme:

And note of course that Israel's shittiness to Palestinians didn't start on Oct. 7th.  Just like Palestinian terrorism didn't start ON Oct. 7th.  Tracing which is the "chicken vs. egg" here is an impossible task.

4 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

You are not being honest if you believe there will be justice or peace.

Oh, I don't believe that there will be justice of peace.  Each belligerent is currently controlled by factions that are completely opposed to any just or peaceful outcome.  Trust me, I agree with you on that.  Each side is bent on a war of extermination, with no meaningful modification of or deviation from that goal.  Congratulations.

6 minutes ago, HellesBier said:

What we will see for sure is more suffering and death on both sides for a very long time. 

Yep.

SO......knowing not just that this is going to be the outcome, but "suffering and death" is the DESIRED outcome, from EACH SIDE.....don't expect me to sympathize much with anyone except the civilians caught in the crossfire.  A vast majority of whom, at this point in time, are Palestinian.  That's just the numbers.  But that doesn't mean no sympathy for Israeli civilians targeted by Hezbollah rockets and such -- the civilians are getting the shit-end of this.  The civilians in both camps should demand better of their governments....but they really aren't, at least not meaningfully.

So, we're stuck with two populations who are happy to engage in a war of extermination against the other.  Hamas and its shittiness are known, and have been for a long-ass time.  Israel has pretended to be a "civilized" nation-state for a long-ass time, but it has now dispensed with that charade, engaging in its own brand of shittiness.  Hooray.  What a GREAT outcome for Israel.