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C-Man

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C-Man

C-Man 27,234

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I love Argentina but it appears like it has a version of Trump too.

https://dnyuz.com/2023/10/16/he-called-the-pope-a-filthy-leftist-now-he-wants-to-be-president/

He has run with little party structure around him. He has vowed to decimate the government he is vying to lead. He promises deep cuts to social services. He wants to discard his nation’s currency.

And instead of campaigning with a spouse and children, Mr. Milei has an immediate family that consists of his sister (who runs his campaign), his girlfriend (who gets paid to impersonate a political archrival) and his five Mastiff dogs (which are clones of his previous dog).

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Javier Milei, a far-right libertarian leading the polls in Argentina’s presidential election this month, has made a lot of contentious statements in recent years: Humans did not cause climate change; people should be able to sell their organs; his nation’s currency “is not even good as manure.”

But, to many Argentines, he has done something far worse: attacked the pope.

In 2020, Mr. Milei, a self-identifying Catholic, called Pope Francis an “imbecile” and “the representative of the Evil One on earth” because he defends “social justice.” Last year, Mr. Milei said the pope “always stands on the side of evil” because he supports taxes.

And last month, in an interview with the former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, Mr. Milei said the pope “has an affinity for murderous communists” and is violating the Ten Commandments.

Those are bold words for a man trying to become president in Argentina, where nearly two out of three people identify as Catholic, where the state is officially Catholic and where the Argentine pope is, to many, a national hero.

But Mr. Milei — a Rolling Stones cover band singer turned libertarian economist turned television pundit turned politician — is not your average presidential candidate.

He has run with little party structure around him. He has vowed to decimate the government he is vying to lead. He promises deep cuts to social services. He wants to discard his nation’s currency.

And instead of campaigning with a spouse and children, Mr. Milei has an immediate family that consists of his sister (who runs his campaign), his girlfriend (who gets paid to impersonate a political archrival) and his five Mastiff dogs (which are clones of his previous dog).

The approach may be unorthodox, but it is working.

In August, Mr. Milei won open primaries with 30 percent of the vote, ahead of candidates from the center-left party running the country and the establishment conservative party.

Since then, he has continued to lead polls and analysts say he is likely to attract enough votes in the election on Sunday to either head to a runoff or win the presidency outright.

But his past comments are still shadowing him.

“He talked trash about the pope,” said Maria Vera, 47, an empanada seller in a large slum called Villa 21-24 in southern Buenos Aires. “If Milei doesn’t have respect for our holiest priest, I don’t know whom he’s going to have respect for.” She is not voting for him, she said.

On a road leading to the slum, walls were covered with posters of the pope’s face and a clear message: “Milei hates him. The people love him. Which side are you on?”

The Vatican has stayed quiet on the issue and did not respond to a request for comment. But in Argentina, church leaders are pushing back.

Last month, some of Argentina’s top Catholic priests organized a mass in Villa 21-24 to atone for Mr. Milei’s “shameful insults” toward the pope. They erected an altar outside the church, and 30 priests stood and read a statement supporting Pope Francis, as parishioners filled the road.

The leader of the church, the Rev. Lorenzo de Vedia, known widely as Padre Toto, said much of his flock continued to bring up Mr. Milei’s comments. “Even people who are not so involved in the daily life of the church are really offended,” all the more so, he said, now that Mr. Milei “has a chance to be president.”

Mr. Milei’s campaign declined to make him available for an interview.

His opponents have tried to seize on the controversy.

Sergio Massa, Argentina’s finance minister, who is polling just behind Mr. Milei, used his one chance to question Mr. Milei during a debate this month to needle him about the pope. “You insulted the head of the church,” he said. “Please use these 45 seconds to ask for forgiveness to the most important Argentine in history.”

Mr. Milei sought to dismiss his past comments, saying he made them before he entered politics, though several have come since he was elected to Congress in 2021. He also said he had apologized to the pope, though The Times could not find a record of that and his campaign could not provide specifics.

“I have no problem apologizing if I am wrong,” Mr. Milei said to his opponent at the debate. “Stop taunting me and focus on lowering inflation.”

Some people who were once close to Mr. Milei have criticized his comments about the pope.

Eduardo Eurnekian, one of Argentina’s most prominent businessmen and Mr. Milei’s former boss when he was an economist, said in a radio interview that Mr. Milei’s comments were “totally out of line,” adding that “the pope is the pope, he has a huge responsibility, and we’ve been respecting his figure for over 2,000 years.”

But plenty of other allies — and voters — are less troubled by his comments.

In the tiny town of Chicoana in northern Argentina, Daniel Mamani, 64, has played the role of Jesus Christ in the town’s Easter celebration for more than a decade.

While Mr. Milei’s comments about the pope made him uncomfortable, he said, he plans to vote for him because the country needs change. “He will have to pay for his debts, won’t he? That is, with the Lord above,” Mr. Mamani, an auto mechanic, said. “I’m interested in the part that is going to help Argentina’s well-being.”

Lilia Lemoine, Mr. Milei’s friend and hair stylist running for Congress on his ticket, said that she and Mr. Milei had long spoken about what she described as the pope’s leftist positions.

“I think exactly the same as he does,” she said of Mr. Milei. The pope “supports communism and gender ideology, and I don’t think that’s what Catholicism is.” She added, “Javier apologized for what he said, but I wouldn’t.”

Ms. Lemoine said that Mr. Milei had also been moving away from the Catholic church in other ways. “Now he is studying kabbalah,” a form of Jewish mysticism, she said. “He became really close friends with a couple of rabbis.”

In fact, after Mr. Milei won a seat in Argentina’s Congress in 2021, several Argentine news outlets quoted him as saying that he was considering converting to Judaism and aspired “to become the first Jewish president in the history of Argentina.” Mr. Milei’s campaign denied that he had ever said that.

In August, in an interview with the Argentine newspaper La Nación, Mr. Milei said that, in many ways, he felt Jewish. “I don’t go to church, I go to temple,” he said. “I don’t talk to priests, I have a head rabbi and I study Torah. I am internationally recognized as a friend of Israel and a Torah scholar.”

Last month, Mr. Milei said he went to Miami to spend Shabbat with friends and then flew to New York to meet with a rabbi.

Still, Mr. Milei has continued to describe himself as a Catholic and has staked out positions more in line with Vatican policy than his opponents, including aiming to ban abortion, which was legalized in Argentina in 2020.

Pope Francis was born as Jorge Mario Bergoglio in Buenos Aires in 1936. From 1998 to his election as pope in 2013, he was Argentina’s highest Catholic official, known for his work with the poor.

The pope has clashed with politicians before. His staunch support for the Vatican’s positions on social issues, including abortion, same-sex marriage and adoptions by gay couples, also made him a sort of political rival to the former left-wing presidents of Argentina, Néstor Kirchner and Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

In 2010, when Mrs. Kirchner’s government supported legalizing same-sex marriage, Francis, who was not yet pope, described the law as “a maneuver by the devil.” Mrs. Kirchner fired back that the church’s stance was “medieval.”

Mr. Milei’s criticism has been much harsher. He has called Pope Francis a “filthy leftist,” an “embarrassing communist,” a “piece of shit” and a “potato.” (The Spanish word for “pope” also means “potato.”)

During his 10 years as the first pope from the Americas, Pope Francis has visited all of Argentina’s neighbors — but not Argentina. It has been widely speculated that he has avoided his home country to keep out of its polarizing politics.

But Francis has said he plans to return home next year.

Who might be welcoming him? President Milei.

The post He Called the Pope a ‘Filthy Leftist.’ Now He Wants to Be President. appeared first on New York Times.

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,161

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2 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I love Argentina.  Love it.  But they are almost worse than Italians with the people they elect.  

Bingo.  Argentina's strong Italian lineage shines brightly through its political misfortunes.

Lovely country.  Lovely people.  But dear lord, at its BEST moments, their political situation is a mongolian clusterfuck.

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Js1

Js1 85,437

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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bingo.  Argentina's strong Italian lineage shines brightly through its political misfortunes.

Lovely country.  Lovely people.  But dear lord, at its BEST moments, their political situation is a mongolian clusterfuck.

Ain’t that the truth. Like, even at our lowest, at least we aren’t Argentina. Man when people talk about nepotism and dynasties and Bill/Hillary, I laugh and tell them to go read up on the Perons and the Kirchners. Hell, CFK was First Lady, president and is now vice president. 

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Blotto

Blotto 23,560

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5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

So, when I saw that a hairstylist was running for Congress, I just had to run a google image search and wasn't disappointed. It looks like she's a little into cosplay.

La mujer que se convirtió en la sombra de Milei, cuida la imagen del libertario y será candidata a diputada - LA NACION

If this isnt her campaign platform, it should be...

image.png.fd4429dd7866af824b2638255bb8264a.png

 

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16,593

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41 minutes ago, bolverk said:

So, when I saw that a hairstylist was running for Congress, I just had to run a google image search and wasn't disappointed. It looks like she's a little into cosplay.

La mujer que se convirtió en la sombra de Milei, cuida la imagen del libertario y será candidata a diputada - LA NACION

You think she will go see Beetlejuice with me?

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12,002

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1 hour ago, C-Man said:

I love Argentina but it appears like it has a version of Trump too.

https://dnyuz.com/2023/10/16/he-called-the-pope-a-filthy-leftist-now-he-wants-to-be-president/

He has run with little party structure around him. He has vowed to decimate the government he is vying to lead. He promises deep cuts to social services. He wants to discard his nation’s currency.

And instead of campaigning with a spouse and children, Mr. Milei has an immediate family that consists of his sister (who runs his campaign), his girlfriend (who gets paid to impersonate a political archrival) and his five Mastiff dogs (which are clones of his previous dog).

 

Who says the USA has lost it's standing in the world?

See the soft power we're projecting?

Almost no other country can export democratically elected right wing authoritarianism quite like us with not one shot fired.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77,119

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#csb - my first trip down there, I won about $9k US at the casino. We were playing black jack and roulet at the same time. The casino roped off both tables for us. Maybe my 2nd night out of 2 weeks. we closed down place. waitresses (she was a solid 8.5) asked us how we got there, because the lot was empty and the cabs were closed. She offered us a ride to the hotel, fuck that we wanted to go to bar on the square that’s open until sunrise. It was a glorious night / trip / adventure

 I showed up everywhere with cases wine, gifts for the kids, groceries for your retired aunt. 

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10,958

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19 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

It’s a beautiful country full of wonderful people, but damn I don’t know how people do it down there 

I figured the WC win would calm things down for a while. I guess the party is over until Messi comes back to the domestic league in a year or two.

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bolverk

bolverk 29,694

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Far-Right Candidate Heads to Runoff in Argentina Election
Javier Milei, a far-right libertarian, performed worse than polls predicted and will face Sergio Massa, Argentina’s economy minister, next month.

After leading in the polls for months, Javier Milei, a far-right libertarian economist, tumbled to second place in Argentina’s election on Sunday, sending him to a runoff next month that will be an important test of strength for the global far-right movement.

Mr. Milei, 53, will face off against Sergio Massa, 51, Argentina’s center-left economy minister who finished a surprise first Sunday and who will now try to persuade voters he can save the nation of 46 million from the economic turmoil that his government helped create.

Mr. Massa earned 36 percent of the vote, to Mr. Milei’s 30 percent, with 92 percent of the votes counted. Candidates needed to surpass 45 percent, or 40 percent with a 10-point margin of victory, to avoid a runoff.

Since winning the primary election in August, Mr. Milei had been leading most polls, with Mr. Massa in second. But many voters on Sunday showed that they preferred a more familiar candidate — Mr. Massa has spent more than two decades in Argentine politics — to Mr. Milei, who has spent his career as a corporate economist and then television pundit.

“For Milei, this should be a shock,” said Ignacio Labaqui, an Argentine political analyst. Mr. Milei received nearly the same percentage of the vote as in the primary election, he said, while Mr. Massa’s support grew after a campaign focused on the dangers of a Milei presidency. “Massa has a very strong chance to become Argentina’s next president,” Mr. Labaqui added.

Mr. Milei has dominated the national conversation and received blanket media coverage in Argentina in recent months with his brash outsider campaign centered on radical proposals to eliminate the nation's central bank and replace its currency, the Argentine peso, with the U.S. dollar.

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texasdago

texasdago 7,575

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10 hours ago, bolverk said:

After leading in the polls for months, Javier Milei, a far-right libertarian economist, tumbled to second place in Argentina’s election on Sunday, sending him to a runoff next month that will be an important test of strength for the global far-right movement.

But polls are always accurate.  Trump is polling 120% to -3% in a head-to-head with Biden 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,161

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3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

He’s a libertarian.  Every libertarian candidate believes this.  Or convinces their followers of this.

But he's also insane, and talks to dead dogs and shit.  Have you really not been paying attention to planet earth, the 21st century edition?  We're gonna make the Dark Ages look positively enlightened by the time all is said and done.

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bernorange

bernorange 8,362

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...
Massa goes into the second round with the momentum, but there's plenty to play for. Milei could pick up more of conservative Bullrich's 6.3 million voters, who are often highly critical of the big-government Peronist model.

Given Bullrich was in the middle of the three politically, both may have to moderate their stance to win her votes over. Juan Schiaretti, who got a higher-than-expected vote share of nearly 7%, could also play an important king-maker role.

There is likely to be a heated campaign over the next month as the two remaining candidates pitch opposing plans for the economy. Massa pledges to protect the country's social safety net while Milei wants to "chainsaw" through a system that has left the country in its worst economic crisis in decades.
...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/explainer-argentina-presidential-election-key-takeaways-from-first-round-vote/ar-AA1iHsoi

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bolverk

bolverk 29,694

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41 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Some insight:

Tapping into popular discontent, Milei's brash style and unorthodox ideas captured voter attention:

We’re talking big hair, epic sideburns, a former rock singer life, huge cloned dogs, ripping an actual chainsaw at rallies, smashing a 'central bank piñata' on live TV, viral Tiktok videos, etc

His ideas include abolishing various ministries, and replacing the peso with the US dollar (like in Ecuador and El Salvador). The vibe was there in his campaign slogan: "I didn't come to guide lambs, I came to wake up lions."

He had a surprise win in August's primaries and was mobbed by crowds yesterday. But this momentum might've also propelled him to cross what many Argentinians consider red lines, like:

  1. referring to Pope Francis (a fellow Argentinian) as "evil", and
  2. reopening wounds from Argentina's bitter 1970s dictatorship.

Even the Pope himself felt compelled to throw some thinly veiled shade back at Milei last week. And getting into a public biff with the Pope is not generally considered a vote-winning strategy in Argentina.

So Massa seems to have benefited from voter hesitancy towards Milei, while doubling down on his own social spending (something Milei vows to cut) and leveraging his dominant party machine (something Milei lacks).

With the third (centre-right) candidate gone, voters now return to the polls on 19 November to choose between Massa and Milei as their next president.

Elections love a good 'momentum' story, but it'd be a brave and breathless commentator to suggest the Peronists now have momentum. Despite winning this round, it's still potentially the party's worst ever result.

And if Milei (a one-man party) ends up winning next month, he'll have a remarkable lack of party power behind him.

So both Massa and Milei struck a conciliatory tone at post-election rallies last night, seeking to woo third-party voters ahead of the final round.

But no matter who wins next month, they’ll be limping rather than roaring into the presidency. And the markets are already pricing in a 95% chance they’ll (again) have to default on Argentina's debt.

Also worth noting:

To win in the first round, a candidate needed 45% of the vote, or 40% but with a winning margin of 10% or more.

 

Which email newsletter was that from, Donkey?

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26,454

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On 10/16/2023 at 11:37 AM, Dnaguy said:

Who says the USA has lost it's standing in the world?

See the soft power we're projecting?

Almost no other country can export democratically elected right wing authoritarianism quite like us with not one shot fired.

Juan Manuel de Rosas has nothing to learn from us.

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bernorange

bernorange 8,362

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It took 10 years for former president Mauricio Macri to turn his party, Pro, into a leading political force. And less than 24 hours to destroy it. Pro is part of the Juntos por Cambio (Together for Change) coalition, which brought Macri to power in 2015. This coalition chose Patricia Bullrich as its presidential candidate, but she was knocked out of the race on Sunday, after winning just 24% of the vote in the first round of the election. That vote was won by Sergio Massa, Argentina’s economy minister and the candidate for the left-wing Peronism political movement, with the far-right leader Javier Milei coming in second place.

With the runoff scheduled for November 19, both Milei and Massa are hoping to win over the 6.2 million Argentines who voted for Bullrich.

Bullrich and Macri publicly endorsed Milei on Wednesday, but the move was met with a fierce backlash from the Together for Change coalition, which also includes the century-old Radical Civic Union (UCR) and other centrist parties, such as Civic Coalition. Pro was the hardest hit of all: moderates in the party felt betrayed, while hardliners said they would not abide by a “unilateral” decision that was made without prior consultation.
...

More:

https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-26/patricia-bullrichs-decision-to-endorse-right-wing-candidate-javier-milei-throws-argentinas-opposition-into-disarray.html

Quote

...  according to a poll released on Thursday.

The survey from pollster Analogias put support for Massa, the outgoing government's economy chief, at about 42% versus 34% for Milei, a combative self-described anarco-capitalist.

Political polling has been wildly off in Argentina in recent years, including ahead of last Sunday's first-round vote, when Milei led in nearly all polls but ultimately came in second to Massa by about six points.
...

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-poll-shows-ruling-party-hopeful-massa-leading-milei-2023-10-26/

 

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texasdago

texasdago 7,575

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1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I was wondering the same thing.  On the one hand, hey that's kind of cool, I want one.  On the other, hey wait why the fuck would anyone put one of those uncomfortable chairs in their house?

I would totally buy one.  Its like having a pair of farted on Astrodome seats.

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G650

G650 14,265

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On 10/27/2023 at 2:07 PM, texasdago said:

I would totally buy one.  Its like having a pair of farted on Astrodome seats.

There's literally a set of Virgin Atlantic 747 seats on Facebook Marketplace here right now.

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