NBA 2023-24

[ITHorn 801]

6 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

 

Everyone knows Luka complains about officiating at an elite level. What is funny to me is that blowhards like Perkins and Windy won’t talk about this while also giving context and acknowledging that due to his style of play Luka absorbs an above average amount of contact and it’s simply not possible to call every foul. He’s going to get calls most players don’t because of the way he plays and is going to miss out on some for the same reason.

 

[MrX 735]

I thought the refs were terrible last night. Them missing the Derrick White attempted intentional foul late perfectly summed it up. 
 

Luka’s six foul was classic “can’t overturn whatever the original call was”. I’m sure there won’t be controversy. 

[SarkAfterDark 1689]

It was dumb for Luka to even put himself in that position since he already had 5 fouls. Move your feet and play defense instead of trying to draw a charge. Oh yeah he can't. Dude is putrid on defense, I'm not sure I've seen a superstar be that bad before. Boston was blowing by him at will.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 

Put him in a pot and cooked him on high heat…wow

When windys on fire, he’s poetry

[aggie08 21505]

I still think it's remarkable that LeBron's butt plug became sentient.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

I still think it's remarkable that LeBron's butt plug became sentient.

Amazing how windy made a career out of carrying lebrons trapper keeper 25 years ago

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

8 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

[Pam Cummings 9645]

3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

He cost his team multiple times by falling down after slight contact, bitching to the refs, and not getting back on defense. Those were layups for the Celtics.

 

Dude is fucking huge. He has to stop with this nonsense play style where he makes moves to bait fouls instead of trying to score. 

Edited June 13 by Pam Cummings

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

8 hours ago, definitely not derka said:

 

That last comment…no, nobody is going to talk about Kidd being out-coached because it’s the most predictable shit ever.  

[Fastbreak 3988]

That last comment…no, nobody is going to talk about Kidd being out-coached because it’s the most predictable shit ever.  

If 2nd row Joe wins game 4 he has the double double of best winning percentage career in the regular season and playoffs

[aggie08 21505]

23 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

C'mon man, we don't have to crucify guys every time they lose to superior teams. Luka has been awesome. He drug flat earth and a bunch of guys none of us had ever heard of through a loaded West. He's no worse than the third best player on the planet. Trae Young isn't in his stratosphere.

That said, the defensive criticism is valid. He'll never be great on the end, but he can't be a turnstile. As the team's leader, you have to show your teammates real, consistent effort. Dirk learned this. Steph learned this. Shit, even LeBron had to learn. "He's too tired from doing everything else" isn't as excuse when want to compete for championships.

[CurlyDumps 4476]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

Also highlights how fucking stupid the Wolves were for not relentlessly hunting his fat ass. What the fuck were they thinking? Can't believe the Nuggets gacked that 20 point lead.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

Or a slightly more reliable Harden

[SarkAfterDark 1689]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

C'mon man, we don't have to crucify guys every time they lose to superior teams. Luka has been awesome. He drug flat earth and a bunch of guys none of us had ever heard of through a loaded West. He's no worse than the third best player on the planet. Trae Young isn't in his stratosphere.

That said, the defensive criticism is valid. He'll never be great on the end, but he can't be a turnstile. As the team's leader, you have to show your teammates real, consistent effort. Dirk learned this. Steph learned this. Shit, even LeBron had to learn. "He's too tired from doing everything else" isn't as excuse when want to compete for championships.

I don't know if you can be that bad on one end of the floor and still be a top 5 player in the league. 

4 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Also highlights how fucking stupid the Wolves were for not relentlessly hunting his fat ass. What the fuck were they thinking? Can't believe the Nuggets gacked that 20 point lead.

Wolves didn't have anyone to attack him with consistently. Ant was on tired legs and Kat was doing his disappearing act.

[InkaUtexas 25996]

And the Celts are pretty good on Defense.

[Skipper 6136]

All the "Luka can't play defense" takes are so fucking lazy and just shows how little Mavs NBA casuals have watched until now.  He's never going to be elite on that end but he's playing fucking hurt and worn down from having to do way too much on offense to keep us in games because we have fucking zero depth scoring (again, doing it hurt).  It's one thing for non-Mavs fans on this board to have that take but that it's such a talking point in the media just shows how fucking lazy they all are.  

[Js1 85424]

Maybe his conditioning should be better for a world class athlete 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

C'mon man, we don't have to crucify guys every time they lose to superior teams. Luka has been awesome. He drug flat earth and a bunch of guys none of us had ever heard of through a loaded West. He's no worse than the third best player on the planet. Trae Young isn't in his stratosphere.

That said, the defensive criticism is valid. He'll never be great on the end, but he can't be a turnstile. As the team's leader, you have to show your teammates real, consistent effort. Dirk learned this. Steph learned this. Shit, even LeBron had to learn. "He's too tired from doing everything else" isn't as excuse when want to compete for championships.

Sorry i definitely meant Trae’s D.  I don’t think you can be that terrible on D and be considered top 3.  No way.  Offense is 50% of the game. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

9 minutes ago, Skipper said:

All the "Luka can't play defense" takes are so fucking lazy and just shows how little Mavs NBA casuals have watched until now.  He's never going to be elite on that end but he's playing fucking hurt and worn down from having to do way too much on offense to keep us in games because we have fucking zero depth scoring (again, doing it hurt).  It's one thing for non-Mavs fans on this board to have that take but that it's such a talking point in the media just shows how fucking lazy they all are.  

There’s a million highlights where he doesn’t get back on D because he’s crying to the refs.  I agree he’s hurt now so he’s even worse but full strength those issues are there, just not as glaring.  

[Skipper 6136]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Maybe his conditioning should be better for a world class athlete 

He still has a lot he can improve on obviously.  All I'm saying is trade a healthy Luka for literally any 'elite' player on the Boston roster and the narrative would be Celtics being led by the best player in the world while Mavs with Tatum or Brown don't make it out of the first round.   Celtics are clearly a better team even if the Mavs depth were playing to their potential, but with the absolute garbage minutes everyone else other than Kyrie (in game 3 at least) is providing in this series, you can just see Luka getting frustrated and trying to do it all (and, yeah, unraveling a bit last night).  The shit he gets nationally and from casual fans considering where's he's led this roster is ridiculously unfair.    

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

He still has a lot he can improve on obviously.  All I'm saying is trade a healthy Luka for literally any 'elite' player on the Boston roster and the narrative would be Celtics being led by the best player in the world while Mavs with Tatum or Brown don't make it out of the first round.   Celtics are clearly a better team even if the Mavs depth were playing to their potential, but with the absolute garbage minutes everyone else other than Kyrie (in game 3 at least) is providing in this series, you can just see Luka getting frustrated and trying to do it all (and, yeah, unraveling a bit last night).  The shit he gets nationally and from casual fans considering where's he's led this roster is ridiculously unfair.    

I’m only shitting on him because we are considering him for top 3.  That’s a crazy high bar.  In today’s NBA you can’t be taking that much time off on D and be top 3.  Not sure there was ever an era where you could? 
 

[aggie08 21505]

25 minutes ago, Skipper said:

All the "Luka can't play defense" takes are so fucking lazy and just shows how little Mavs NBA casuals have watched until now.  He's never going to be elite on that end but he's playing fucking hurt and worn down from having to do way too much on offense to keep us in games because we have fucking zero depth scoring (again, doing it hurt).  It's one thing for non-Mavs fans on this board to have that take but that it's such a talking point in the media just shows how fucking lazy they all are.  

I love Luka, man, but can we not do the "when he has a great game, he's the best player in the world; when he has a bad game, he's hurt" thing with him? It's June. Everyone's banged up and tired. He's out there and every night he's capable of scoring 40 points. He's fine.

[closetohumping 17452]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/luka-doncics-defense-hits-shameful-levels-with-mavericks-on-brink-of-being-swept-by-celtics/
 

For all the people who crowned Luka after the WCF win.  He is who we thought he was.  It’s like Trae Young with more whining to refs mixed in.  

Carmelo/harden love child.   Only maybe even worse defensively

[Pam Cummings 9645]

42 minutes ago, Skipper said:

All the "Luka can't play defense" takes are so fucking lazy and just shows how little Mavs NBA casuals have watched until now.  He's never going to be elite on that end but he's playing fucking hurt and worn down from having to do way too much on offense to keep us in games because we have fucking zero depth scoring (again, doing it hurt).  It's one thing for non-Mavs fans on this board to have that take but that it's such a talking point in the media just shows how fucking lazy they all are.  

The problem with this take is the games are on TV and we can all watch what is happening.

[Skipper 6136]

5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

The problem with this take is the games are on TV and we can all watch what is happening.

How many Mavs games have you watched this season until the NBA finals?

[Vertuzzi 1375]

Luka is obviously an unbelievable player; however, his constant bitching at officials and teammates will eventually take its toll on his team and fan base. He literally thinks he gets fouled on every possession and that he never fouls on defense. At the end of the day, the calls even out pretty well. And for him, considering he’s a superstar in the league, he probably gets more calls his way. He needs a solid vet (not that mental case Kyrie) to come in and basically tell him to shut the fuck up with all the bitching and moaning and just play basketball. He’s dealing with an injury, but like someone said earlier it’s June. All of these guys are dealing with something.  His defense will only improve with better conditioning and becoming serious about his diet. 

[Pam Cummings 9645]

52 minutes ago, Skipper said:

How many Mavs games have you watched this season until the NBA finals?

What does this matter? Are we gatekeeping opinions on individual players now because I don't watch all the Mavs games on Bally? He's been in the league for quite some time now. I've watched most of the Mavs games during this playoffs. Not like it's some totally new player we're being exposed to here.

[InkaUtexas 25996]

A Balkan being surly. Who would have thought of that.

[Kermit 3156]

If the  Celtics really want to turn this ref vitriol up ip a level, have Bennett Salvatore and Dwayne Wade sit court side.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

He still has a lot he can improve on obviously.  All I'm saying is trade a healthy Luka for literally any 'elite' player on the Boston roster and the narrative would be Celtics being led by the best player in the world while Mavs with Tatum or Brown don't make it out of the first round.   Celtics are clearly a better team even if the Mavs depth were playing to their potential, but with the absolute garbage minutes everyone else other than Kyrie (in game 3 at least) is providing in this series, you can just see Luka getting frustrated and trying to do it all (and, yeah, unraveling a bit last night).  The shit he gets nationally and from casual fans considering where's he's led this roster is ridiculously unfair.    

Look, I hear you about the rosters. Certainly Boston is much deeper and much better and more well rounded and it's not really close. But there's a bigger philosophical discussion to be had about the style that Luka plays that doesn't necessarily empower or elevate his teammates. You can't just look at it in a vacuum and say that Brown or Tatum are not as good as he is. They are just different and play in a different system. To paraphrase Luka's spirit animal James Harden, "I'm not a system player. I am the system."

Meanwhile, everybody else sits around and waits for something to happen. Sure they get open looks and lobs because of him, and got damn he is a pick and roll savant, but that's really the only kind of actions that Dallas runs. And Boston choked that shit out by switching everything and daring Luka to beat them one on one.  You want to go ask Derek Lively or PJ Washington to go create their own shot for the first time all season in Game 3 of the finals? Doesn't seem optimal to me. Even Kyrie, for all his basketball brilliance, doesn't play off Luka as much as they take turns running the show - which consists of setting a couple of picks to hunt the matchup you want, and then making some cool shit up and/or taking a bad step back three.

Sure, you can look at the ends justifying the means, "Hey, this cat dragged this ragtag outfit of flawed role players to finals!" But then, he took them to the WCF in 2002. Is it fool's gold or are they just that close to getting over the hump? I really don't know. But I do that his team would have a better chance of winning if he stopped foul baiting and bitching to the refs instead of getting his ass back on defense.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

😧  

 

 

[Js1 85424]

That’s some Manny Diaz ole defense 

 

Edited June 13 by Js1

[Chewbacca 7780]

9 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

It was dumb for Luka to even put himself in that position since he already had 5 fouls. Move your feet and play defense instead of trying to draw a charge. Oh yeah he can't. Dude is putrid on defense, I'm not sure I've seen a superstar be that bad before. Boston was blowing by him at will.

What was far dumber was either his 4th or 5th foul.  He missed a layup where he thought he was fouled and then fouled a Celtics player on the inbounds instead of jogging down the court.

[aggie08 21505]

35 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That’s some Manny Diaz ole defense 

 

Second Spectrum stat tracking has no chill. 

On a related note, Minnesota needs more than one guy who can dribble a basketball towards the rim.

[Masshole Horn 775]

Fuck Kyrie!

[Vertuzzi 1375]

17 minutes ago, Masshole Horn said:

Fuck Kyrie!

Where the fuck have you been man?😂 I could have used your help on this thread over the past couple of days. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26493]

First, Luka Doncic is not a bad defender. He’s a well above average defender with superior off-ball disruptive skills.  This is a bad narrative shared by a national media and most NBA fans who share the common attributes of both not ever watching Mavericks games (they aren’t a national draw) and not really understanding the mechanics of the game they are watching. 
 

Second- Luka obviously has some maturing to do. That’s not news to any Mavericks fan. He was better about it this year than last, and will continue to mature. He’ll also get faster, stronger, fitter, smarter, and hopefully they will give him a third option and an elite 3&D to work with. 

There isn’t a player on the planet I would trade for him 1:1 right now. This season is a success by any measure and I’m very happy with the Dallas Mavericks this season and hopefully winning a ring after years of frustration with this group will let Boston fans enjoy the game again and be less trashy and sour.

 

[Chewbacca 7780]

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

hopefully winning a ring after years of frustration with this group will let Boston fans enjoy the game again and be less trashy and sour.

 

You don't know a lot of Boston fans, do you?

[Derka 6245]

i doubt most fans would have guessed that luka was this high on the list of defensive win shares this season:

 

[aggie08 21505]

37 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

First, Luka Doncic is not a bad defender. He’s a well above average defender with superior off-ball disruptive skills.

Come the fuck on.

 

[aggie08 21505]

3 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

i doubt most fans would have guessed that luka was this high on the list of defensive win shares this season:

 

Defensive win shares is one of the more worthless advanced stats I can think of. Russell Westbrook was in the top 5 for like a decade.

Does anyone think Sabonis and KAT are good defenders?

[Kermit 3156]

Dallas fans: Luka is an above average defender, you must not watch the games.

Everyone else: What about all these playoff games?

Dallas fans: No, not those games.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26493]

13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Come the fuck on.

 

Oh OK- the Mavs were the 6th best Defensive rating in the league during the regular season and 2nd best in the playoffs because the staring PG who gets 40mins a game is actually terrible but the supporting cast is SOOOO good they paper it over. tAht maEKes sEnSe.

Come on man.

[aggie08 21505]

1 minute ago, Kermit said:

Dallas fans: Luka is an above average defender, you must not watch the games.

Everyone else: What about all these playoff games?

Dallas fans: No, not those games.

 

I do look forward to someone explaining to me the "mechanics" of Luka getting blown by with minimal effort on the perimeter being part of the overarching defensive scheme.

[Bozo_Casanova 26493]

3 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Everyone else: What about all these playoff games?

Like the entire western conference playoffs? Go check with Paul George and get back with me.

Edited June 14 by Bozo_Casanova

[Bozo_Casanova 26493]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I do look forward to someone explaining to me the "mechanics" of Luka getting blown by with minimal effort on the perimeter being part of the overarching defensive scheme.

It happened. He’s not great. He’s above average though. And Dallas was +9 for the game with him on the floor.

25 minutes ago, definitely not derka said:

i doubt most fans would have guessed that luka was this high on the list of defensive win shares this season:

 

Centers and Power Forwards are important on defense, a Shaggy Exclusive.
 

Edited June 14 by Bozo_Casanova

[aggie08 21505]

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Oh OK- the Mavs were the 6th best Defensive rating in the league during the regular season and 2nd best in the playoffs because the staring PG who gets 40mins a game is actually terrible but the supporting cast is SOOOO good they paper it over. tAht maEKes sEnSe.

Come on man.

They were actually 18th in the regular season. Though, since about mid-March, they've been excellent, one of the best. So, sure, Luka deserves some of that credit for amping his effort up over that stretch. 

But he's been flat out awful for quite a few games this postseason. We have eyes, dude. Usually, his offensive brilliance offsets that. Sometimes it doesn't.

Edited June 14 by aggie08

[Kermit 3156]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Like the entire western conference playoffs? Go check with Paul George and get back with me.

 

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Like the entire western conference playoffs? Go check with Paul George and get back with me.

I’m one minute into the Clippers highlights and he’s doing his usual matador defense while barely doubling Zubac. What am I looking for again? He’s fucking amazing with the ball in his hands though.

[Derka 6245]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Centers and Power Forwards are important on defense, a Shaggy Exclusive.

[Bozo_Casanova 26493]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

They were actually 18th in the regular season. Though, since about mid-March, they've been excellent, one of the best. So, sure, Luka deserves some of that credit for amping his effort up over that stretch. 

Sorry- I meant after the all star break, and 5th. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

But he's been flat out awful in most games this postseason. We have eyes, dude. Usually, his offensive brilliance offsets that. Sometimes it doesn't.

That’s ridiculous. He’s been mediocre, at times, this series. No worse than that. 
 

 

1 minute ago, Kermit said:

I’m one minute into the Clippers highlights and he’s doing his usual matador defense while barely doubling Zubac. What am I looking for again? He’s fucking amazing with the ball in his hands though.

One whole minute?