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shadow_operative

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cmontexas
cmontexas

Giddey averaging 15 on and off the court

Baboontyme
Baboontyme

The new tv wall setup is starting to take place. That's 250" of NBA. Probably 1/4 of what Kendra Lust has had, if that 

Aqua Buddha
Aqua Buddha

Still can't get it out of my head.  Once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it:

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11139

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Today I learned that rebounds = lazy 

No, I'm saying Russ was not playing defense like he should that year, because he was hunting for rebounds. He had a decent defense rating, but a lot of it was because he continually left his man trying to get rebounds and didn't get hit with allowing points. He actually played pretty good defense when he tried, but that season he had another goal in mind rather than simply winning games. Russ rarely set picks for teammates or tried to make many team plays, unlike Luka who is the complete opposite in that regard. During that MVP season for Russ, there were tons of fans making excuses for his defense, even saying he spent so much energy on offense running the court that he couldn't possibly play well on defense. It sounds similar to the excuses we're hearing about Luka right now. 

I was saying that in contrast Luka doesn't hunt for rebounds or stats, but he does seem to lag on defense and is slow to react a lot of times, which may be due to lack of energy or laziness. I don't think I have ever seen Luka do anything like the ridiculous stuff Russ was doing that season to pad stats, but he definitely should work on defense if he wants to win a ring some day. It's pretty clear he's not playing average defense in this series, and is covering up that deficiency in the +/- ratings with his offensive production. 

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6437

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Klay appears to be moving on from the Warriors. I think Morey is just desperate enough to give him 3 years $120 million.

He’s 34 and appears washed. Time and injuries are cruel. 

i cannot imagine that anyone in the league would be desperate enough to offer Klay 3/120.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18549

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He turned down 2 years $48 million from the warriors last year. I don’t know if he’s going to get that kind of money elsewhere. I mean he did shoot 39% from three this season. But that 0 for 10 stink bomb in the play in vs Sac and that disaster against the lakers in the playoffs last year are still on everyone’s mind. I think he’s in for a reality check when he tests the market this summer. 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Malone was a piece of shit

LOL, yes if we're talking about off the court, obviously Malone is an all time POS.  That's not where I was going...

 

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

He turned down 2 years $48 million from the warriors last year. I don’t know if he’s going to get that kind of money elsewhere. I mean he did shoot 39% from three this season. But that 0 for 10 stink bomb in the play in vs Sac and that disaster against the lakers in the playoffs last year are still on everyone’s mind. I think he’s in for a reality check when he tests the market this summer. 

Yes, I'd guess no way he gets anything over 22-24 for over a year.  Maybe someone does 25 for one year prove it deal, but multiple years you'd have to think around 20 max but the NBA is full of morons in upper mgt and Morey loves a name...

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Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2812

Posted
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On 6/15/2024 at 11:41 AM, Fastbreak said:

Luka is playing with:

PJ - was 4th best player on the Hornets
DJJ - minimum contract. Couldn’t cut it on the Bulls
Gafford - great from 2 or less feet
Kyrie - $100 player, .10 head
Maxi - hurt and worthless
THJ - heat check master with little fire lately
Lively - Really good for a rookie C, but hasn’t made a shot outside of the paint this season.
Green - gone from non-tradable to non-playable
Hardy - maybe next year…

I was thinking about this yesterday and wondering why in the hell I thought Dallas was going to win this series in retrospect. 

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3985

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I was thinking about this yesterday and wondering why in the hell I thought Dallas was going to win this series in retrospect. 

Because the Mavs have the best player in the series by a mile. Luka gives them a chance to win if he gets any kind of help at all.  Unfortunately, no one else showed up in games 1-3.

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11139

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On 6/16/2024 at 7:45 AM, Bozo_Casanova said:

Then why is the Mavericks defensive rating worse when Luka Doncic is not on the floor.

You're talking about team defense rating, which is a product of Luka+4 guys on the court at the time of his minutes.  That's not a great way of determining an individual rating as the other players are an important factor in how that is rated. The metric rewards steals, blocks and defensive rebounds, and penalizes you for being the closest defender when an opponent makes a shot. So if you can't stay in front of your man, and he drives into the paint for an easy shot, it's likely that a help defender will get hit with allowing the field goal because he's there trying to help on defense. I think we have seen some of that with Luka, which would hurt him on the eye test but not with statistics. 

There's also a factor of who is taking those minutes in place of Luka.  Given Dallas' depth, it's quite possible they are putting a worse defender in his place. If that's the case, then they should expect to see a disparity when he's off the floor. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26462

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hold on. This entire thing, all this pushback, is about my statement that Luka Doncic is an “above average” defender within the context of their scheme and not the disaster he’s made out to be in the national media and by Spurs/Rockets fans on this board. Nobody says he’s a great defender. The statement that provoked all this cramping and emotion was that he was above average.

Here’s my argument: the numbers say I am right. He’s 18th in individual defensive rating, one of only 6 guards in the top 25. He’s 7th in defensive rebounds, just a fraction ahead of Victor Wembanyama and 8th in Steals. And on top of all that, his team is worse on defense when he’s not on the floor. 

On the other hand, you have the eye test, according to people who don’t watch many Mavericks games. 
 

Is this something like the eye test that said Oklahoma was better than Texas in 2008? 
 

Luka Doncic has a lot of growing up to do and needs to channel his frustration with NBA officiating more productively. The bitching has hurt the team. But he is above average on defense and capable of being good when needed.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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gsoda3

gsoda3 3262

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

You're talking about team defense rating, which is a product of Luka+4 guys on the court at the time of his minutes.  That's not a great way of determining an individual rating as the other players are an important factor in how that is rated. The metric rewards steals, blocks and defensive rebounds, and penalizes you for being the closest defender when an opponent makes a shot. So if you can't stay in front of your man, and he drives into the paint for an easy shot, it's likely that a help defender will get hit with allowing the field goal because he's there trying to help on defense. I think we have seen some of that with Luka, which would hurt him on the eye test but not with statistics. 

There's also a factor of who is taking those minutes in place of Luka.  Given Dallas' depth, it's quite possible they are putting a worse defender in his place. If that's the case, then they should expect to see a disparity when he's off the floor. 

that doesn't explain why dallas is worse off defensively when luka's off the floor.  fact is luka's a better defensive player than 1.) what he was showing in games 1-3 and 2.) what the media narrative was after those games.  

and to your second paragrahph, when luka goes out it's one of josh green, maxi kleber, or dante exum that goes in.  all three of them are above average defenders.  

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18549

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Posted
4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Hold on. This entire thing, all this pushback, is about my statement that Luka Doncic is an “above average” defender within the context of their scheme and not the disaster he’s made out to be in the national media and by Spurs/Rockets fans on this board. Nobody says he’s a great defender. The statement that provoked all this cramping and emotion was that he was above average.

Here’s my argument: the numbers say I am right. He’s 18th in individual defensive rating, one of only 6 guards in the top 25. He’s 7th in defensive rebounds, just a fraction ahead of Victor Wembanyama and 8th in Steals. And on top of all that, his team is worse on defense when he’s not on the floor. 

On the other hand, you have the eye test, according to people who don’t watch many Mavericks games. 
 

Is this something like the eye test that said Oklahoma was better than Texas in 2008? 
 

Luka Doncic has a lot of growing up to do and needs to channel his frustration with NBA officiating more productively. The bitching has hurt the team. But he is above average on defense and capable of being good when needed.

 

3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

that doesn't explain why dallas is worse off defensively when luka's off the floor.  fact is luka's a better defensive player than 1.) what he was showing in games 1-3 and 2.) what the media narrative was after those games.  

and to your second paragrahph, when luka goes out it's one of josh green, maxi kleber, or dante exum that goes in.  all three of them are above average defenders.  

 

1 hour ago, ITHorn said:

Bad defensive players don’t put up stats like this over an extended period of time (he was top 15 in regular season).  
 

IMG_3580.thumb.jpeg.a86912206d727c737b622fb415530c04.jpeg

First off, defensive statistics are mostly bullshit, even the advanced stats. They just are. But beyond that, steals are not a good defensive metric AT ALL. You can get high steal numbers because you are taking unnecessary risks. You can get high steal numbers NOT guarding your man and playing the passing lanes. You can get high steal numbers while being a net negative to your team defense. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. It's embarrassing.

If you're looking for a reason that the defensive numbers look better with him on than off, you probably don't have to look much further than his insane offensive efficiency. It's a helluva lot easier playing defense when the offense is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket and you can set up in the half court vs. getting a live ball rebound. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26462

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38 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

 

First off, defensive statistics are mostly bullshit, even the advanced stats. They just are. But beyond that, steals are not a good defensive metric AT ALL. You can get high steal numbers because you are taking unnecessary risks. You can get high steal numbers NOT guarding your man and playing the passing lanes. You can get high steal numbers while being a net negative to your team defense. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. It's embarrassing.

If you're looking for a reason that the defensive numbers look better with him on than off, you probably don't have to look much further than his insane offensive efficiency. It's a helluva lot easier playing defense when the offense is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket and you can set up in the half court vs. getting a live ball rebound. 

Fascinating stuff. The screenshot below is the top ten guards in the NBA by defensive rating. Who else is below average? 
image.thumb.png.4e0a0df559763eb7b0bad9ab84ab82ae.png

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7779

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Posted
8 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I would do my best to get that agent fired if they let some mouth breathing mick jump me in boarding priority because they were wearing a Celtics jersey.

 

 

In this scenario you've already lost because you're on Jet Blue.

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MrX

MrX 734

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

 

First off, defensive statistics are mostly bullshit, even the advanced stats. They just are. But beyond that, steals are not a good defensive metric AT ALL. You can get high steal numbers because you are taking unnecessary risks. You can get high steal numbers NOT guarding your man and playing the passing lanes. You can get high steal numbers while being a net negative to your team defense. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. It's embarrassing.

If you're looking for a reason that the defensive numbers look better with him on than off, you probably don't have to look much further than his insane offensive efficiency. It's a helluva lot easier playing defense when the offense is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket and you can set up in the half court vs. getting a live ball rebound. 

This and this. Easier to play defense when you get to settle into the half court a whole hell of a lot. 
 

I can’t believe this argument is still going on.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26462

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yesterday I learned rebounds were lazy. Today I learned steals are selfish and reckless. 
 

Tomorrow I expect to hear that scoring indicates a lack of offensive effort and that wins are low-T. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27562

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, MrX said:

This and this. Easier to play defense when you get to settle into the half court a whole hell of a lot. 
 

I can’t believe this argument is still going on.

Yes I can’t believe you guys keep asserting he is a below average defender yet won’t post any stats showing he is below average

 

y’all do know what average means right?

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7779

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Fascinating stuff. The screenshot below is the top ten guards in the NBA by defensive rating. Who else is below average? 
image.thumb.png.4e0a0df559763eb7b0bad9ab84ab82ae.png

TIL Ant and Shai are better defenders than Derrick White and Jrue.😂

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aggie08

aggie08 21504

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Posted

Bench warmers dribbling the clock out at the end of a quarter rather than risk lowering their shooting percentage by attempting a heave in an elimination game in the NBA fucking Finals. 

Pet peeve activated.

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aggie08

aggie08 21504

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Posted
32 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Bench warmers dribbling the clock out at the end of a quarter rather than risk lowering their shooting percentage by attempting a heave in an elimination game in the NBA fucking Finals. 

Pet peeve activated.

Ahem. Always, always shoot the fucking ball.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3262

Posted
Posted
This and this. Easier to play defense when you get to settle into the half court a whole hell of a lot. 
 
I can’t believe this argument is still going on.
Defensive stats don't mean anything if you're a prolific scorer. Good talk thanks.
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MrX

MrX 734

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Posted

Luka is 178 out of 214 in defensive win shares in the playoffs - you know, when teams hunt the defensive weaknesses on your team. So, I guess there’s a stat. 

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