2023-24 Houston Rockets Thread - Climbing out of the Gutter?

Mitch Cumsteen · June 21

28 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Thanks for clarifying on the Spurs pick upthread.

Chicago just traded Caruso. I’d imagine they’ve reached out. Donovan is a darn good coach, but I think they’re solidly in the lottery with White at PG, DeRozan(?), Giddey and a bunch of spare parts. I’d do the 3rd pick for their unprotected pick in 2025. It’s a risk, but a top 6-7 pick in 2025 is more valuable than the 3rd pick in this draft. Fight me.

Clingan is what the Rockets were doing 3 years ago. Assembling talent without any idea how they’ll fit. Sheppard would be FVV’s replacement in 2025-2026 with immediate value as a shooter. He makes more sense on paper.

Ha. The spurs have the bulls 2024 (protected) first too. They can’t trade it.

billfromlaketravis · June 21

I give up. Do whatever in the draft. Just no Castle.

BigOrange1 · June 21

after watching this i think i'm to the point where i'll be sad if its not Sheppard.

HtownHorn · June 21

Sheppard makes so much sense, especially if you look at Thompson playing the point forward in a few seasons. Sheppard, Thompson, Whitmore, Smith, and Sengun is a solid starting 5. He's a higher level Donte DiVencenzo.

Fastbreak · June 21

3 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Sheppard makes so much sense, especially if you look at Thompson playing the point forward in a few seasons. Sheppard, Thompson, Whitmore, Smith, and Sengun is a solid starting 5. He's a higher level Donte DiVencenzo.

He has a higher ceiling but much lower floor. Donte's floor is already - solid rotation player.

Fud · June 21

Fischer's article says if Houston trades #3, they want a future unprotected pick, which is what I was thinking as well

Fud · June 21

14 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Sheppard makes so much sense, especially if you look at Thompson playing the point forward in a few seasons. Sheppard, Thompson, Whitmore, Smith, and Sengun is a solid starting 5. He's a higher level Donte DiVencenzo.

It depends on how you evaluate him

Do you think he'll hold up when he gets hunted and picked on defensively? So far, he's been a much better off the ball defender than on the ball, and he gets blown by at times

Is he merely a shooter, or does he add rim pressure, shot creation, and play making?

HtownHorn · June 21

He adds shot creation and play making. He's a guard that will be surrounding by 3 athletic wings and Sengun. He should be fine on defense.

HtownHorn · June 21

ESPN's Off Season Coverage

Spoiler

PARTY-CRASHERS
Houston Rockets (41-41)
Total players under contract: 12
Projected salary cap space: None
Total tradeable first-round picks: Five picks, six swaps

What's next: Coach Ime Udoka's first season in Houston was a success, as the young Rockets flirted with the play-in until the season's final days, then leapt to the third spot in the lottery. That'll give Houston a chance to add to its young core of Alperen Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr., Jalen Green and Amen Thompson, and then the Rockets will also have significant cap space to pursue veteran upgrades via free agency or trade. Expect Houston, which wants to progress to "Phase 3" of its rebuild, to be aggressive this summer.

Rockethorn1978 · June 21

32 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

ESPN's Off Season Coverage

Hide contents

PARTY-CRASHERS
Houston Rockets (41-41)
Total players under contract: 12
Projected salary cap space: None
Total tradeable first-round picks: Five picks, six swaps

What's next: Coach Ime Udoka's first season in Houston was a success, as the young Rockets flirted with the play-in until the season's final days, then leapt to the third spot in the lottery. That'll give Houston a chance to add to its young core of Alperen Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr., Jalen Green and Amen Thompson, and then the Rockets will also have significant cap space to pursue veteran upgrades via free agency or trade. Expect Houston, which wants to progress to "Phase 3" of its rebuild, to be aggressive this summer.

The top of that article says project salary cap space is none the. The article says they will have significant cap space to pursue a veteran upgrade? Kinda confusing.

HtownHorn · June 21

32 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The top of that article says project salary cap space is none the. The article says they will have significant cap space to pursue a veteran upgrade? Kinda confusing.

They can create $23M+ by waiving Tate, Landale, and Jeff Green, plus they can release all their other cap holds. I think they can get up to $18M under the cap.

Edited June 21 by HtownHorn

Fud · June 21

Teams prefer to keep contracts like that on the roster so they have salaries to match a large contract

Fud · June 24

Happy draft week

1) Risacher

2) Sarr

3) Sheppard

4) Castle

5) Buzelis

6) Knecht

7) Clingan

😎 Dillingham

9) Williams

10) Topic

11) Carter

12) Salaun

13) Holland

14) Walter

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40403204/2024-nba-mock-draft-latest-first-second-round-predictions-all-58-picks

Fud · June 24

Talking Rockets offseason starting at the 28:00 minute mark

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ron-holland-scouting-report-washington-houston-offseasons/id986901174?i=1000660022580

LCHorn · June 24

I’ve read too many draft previews and I think I’m switching my preference from Sheppard to Castle. Castle can put pressure on Green to get more efficient, be his replacement, or maybe spend a little time at point in a big lineup.

Sheppard is a better fit with this particular incarnation of the Rockets, but he’ll need to get a lot better on defense to be a starter for Ime and I don’t think the Rockets want to build a team that hides a defensive liability in search of offense. They’d prefer to sacrifice offense for defensive soundness.

That said, man, 40% from 3 taking 5-6 shots per game would be really nice…

BigOrange1 · June 25

How is Castle going to put pressure on Green when he can't shoot? I like Castle, but imo he's a poor man's Amen Thompson. If we didn't already have Amen, I'd be fine with taking Castle.

I'm to the point where I want to keep the pick and take one of Sheppard or Clingan. I prefer Sheppard, but will be happy with either. Given that Alex Sarr looks to be a lock to go no later than #2 to Washington, at least one of those two guys should be available at #3. Just take him and don't do anything dumb like trade 3 for 9 and Marcus Smart.

TonyTexas · June 25

I don’t want Clingan for the simple reason that I don’t want to hear years of incessant Star Trek jokes

LebongJames · June 25

My only hope is that they don’t trade for an end of career former superstar on a max contract.

I.e

Paul George

KD

Harden

Jimmy Butler

ChickenSandwich · June 25

3 minutes ago, LebongJames said:

My only hope is that they don’t trade for an end of career former superstar on a max contract.

I.e

Paul George

KD

Harden

Jimmy Butler

Good list.
Would add

B Ingram

M Smart

D Garland

Edited June 25 by ChickenSandwich

BigOrange1 · June 26

what the fuck is this bullshit

BigOrange1 · June 26

are the rockets trying to trade for KD??

Macklemore · June 26

10 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

are the rockets trying to trade for KD??

BigOrange1 · June 26

something has to be in the works in order to give up that '25 nets pick.

goatsaag · June 26

4 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

something has to be in the works in order to give up that '25 nets pick.

This needs to be part of something bigger to give up that 2025 pick. Top 5 pick in next year's draft is too valuable

Macklemore · June 26

Pimphand · June 26

NVM

Edited June 26 by Pimphand

Scraps · June 26

Jfc woj is giving me a headache

Macklemore · June 26

Fud · June 26

They traded the likely difference between the nets pick and the suns pick in 2025 for the two 2029 picks. The 2026 vs 2027 might be close to a wash

Don’t love it because I’d want to keep my lotto chances in 2025 (nets probably finish in the 5-10 range again with Bridges), but they did pick up 2029 picks

Dutchrudder · June 26

This ESPN article lays it out plainly:

Quote

Brooklyn sends a swath of picks for 2025, 2026 first rounders

Brooklyn Nets get:

Return of 2025 first-round swap
2026 first-round pick (via Nets)

Houston Rockets get:

2025 first-round swap (via lesser of Rockets or Thunder for Suns)
2027 first-round pick (via Suns)
2029 first-round pick (via more favorable of Dallas and Phoenix)
2029 first-round swap (via less favorable of Dallas or Phoenix)

Brooklyn Nets grade: B-

Having already sent the Rockets the No. 3 pick in Wednesday's NBA draft as part of the Harden trade, the Nets assured they won't do the same thing either of the next two years, a necessary part of the rebuilding plan the team is apparently embracing after trading Bridges to the Knicks in a separate deal Tuesday night.

The cost was considerable. In order to get back the team's own 2026 first-round pick, as well as extinguish Houston's 2025 swap rights, Brooklyn gave up two first-round picks and two swaps utilizing the extra picks the Nets had coming from last year's Durant and Kyrie Irving trades.

The only way for this deal to make sense from a value standpoint is for Brooklyn to prioritize ping-pong balls over wins the next two seasons, particularly ahead of what's expected to be a strong draft in 2025. To some degree, the Nets may have overvalued avoiding the frustration that comes with watching another team make a lottery pick they "earned" this year. But if Brooklyn ends up with a top-four pick next June, the price will seem well worth it.

Houston Rockets grade: A

The Rockets were well positioned to extract maximum value from the Nets, adding to their own stockpile of incoming picks. Houston has bet against Phoenix in particular. The Rockets will get the Suns' unprotected 2027 first-round pick and will get their 2029 first-rounder as long as it's not the worst of those belonging to Dallas, Houston and Phoenix. They also have the potential to end up with the Suns' 2025 first-rounder if it's better than the one the Rockets end up with after swapping with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reported Tuesday night that one possible end goal for Houston is using those picks to acquire Durant, which would be ironic given Phoenix originally gave up the picks for Durant -- and the Rockets landed the Nets' picks when they sent Harden to Brooklyn to team with Durant.

Per Wojnarowski, the Suns are reluctant to make such a move now, meaning Houston will explore using the Phoenix picks to add another veteran star to a talented young core that surged late in the 2023-24 regular season. Whether trying to win now is the right end game for the Rockets is unclear depending on the player and the value, but either way Houston comes out of this deal ahead in terms of tradeable picks.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40433333/nba-trade-grades-bridges-knicks-cooking-houston

I don't see why the Rockets would do this, I would fucking DARE the Nets to try and be good next year. Go spend some money and max out OG Anunoby or Klay Thompson if you want. It would blow up in their faces, just like this year did. I would gladly take a team on track for the 4-9th worst record and take that shot at a top 4 pick in a loaded draft over the future 1sts from the Suns and Mavs. Luka is 25, and he's not likely to leave Dallas, so I don't see those being valuable. The Suns are just a year or two away from the wheels falling off, so maybe one of those picks land a bounty in 27 or 29.

Slacks · June 26

Rockets are signaling they aren't interested in 2025 draft as much as they are in getting into the playoffs.

Or selling tickets with old KD...

Edited June 26 by Slacks

Dutchrudder · June 26

This is the year to trade FVV if you can, he's basically an expiring deal because nobody is going to opt-in to his 45m next year. It could be used as a salary dump for a team that needs to drop tax money (Suns, Warriors, Twolves). If there is a way to get Booker or KD, it might be worth it, but I think they would need to secure another All-star to really have a chance at getting past the 2nd round.

Slacks · June 26

Make the pick at #3 and send that, too.

tx 3 putt · June 26

Drafted the highest rated euro at #3

hard pass on KD, let him go sink some other team

Rockethorn1978 · June 26

I do not want KD, 5 years ago yeah but not now.

Macklemore · June 26

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5592159/2024/06/26/knicks-mikal-bridges-nba-draft-cooper-flagg/

… On the other side of the ledger, Brooklyn couldn’t possibly move forward with the Bridges dealwithout the other half of it: swapping future picks owed by the Suns to Brooklyn for those owed by the Nets to Houston. Yes, they traded draft picks sothey could tank. The NBA is amazing.

This actually came at a considerable cost. People’s brains are spinning right now trying to process all this, but the Nets had two unprotected firsts from Dallas and Phoenix in 2029 that now are essentially controlled by the Rockets — Houston gets the better of the two automatically, and can swap for the other one with its own pick. Given the odds of Phoenix being awful by then, that’s a sweet haul.

The benefit for Brooklyn is that a 2025 pick swap given to Houston in the James Harden trade was removed, allowing the Nets to freely tank this season and have it benefit themselves rather than the Rockets. The Nets also got their own unprotected 2026 first back, again a key condition for bottoming out. Houston’s reward, in addition to that 2029 bounty, was an unprotected first from Phoenix in 2027 and a complicated pick swap in 2025 that can turn either their own pick or the Thunder’s into Phoenix’s pick if it benefits them.

So the Nets gave up two unprotected picks (2029, 2027) for one unprotected pick in return (2026), and gave up two swaps (2029, 2025) for one admittedly more valuable swap (2025). It was understandable business for the Nets because it gets them out of mediocre, chase-the-play-in limbo and sets them in a new direction; they’re in a much better place now than they were 24 hours ago.

Finally, just to be clear: Remember that there was no scenario where the Nets were making the Bridges trade without doing the Houston deal. That 2025 pick swap was never going to be as valuable to the Rockets as it now is to the Nets.

But my goodness, this was fantastic business for Houston.

Fud · June 26

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

But my goodness, this was fantastic business for Houston.

I think it was closer to fine than fantastic

Mitch Cumsteen · June 26

29 minutes ago, Fud said:

I think it was closer to fine than fantastic

They really threw the nets a life buoy. I really don’t think they had any avenue to make the playoffs this year and 2025 draft should be loaded. It does make sense that they push the timeline back a few years but you just never know what those Phoenix picks are going to look like. Don’t me wrong, betting on the suns to suck with Isiah pulling the strings being the scenes is a fantastic play, but that’s a big give.

Scraps · June 26

Man fuck it I can't help it....I want KD. Would it be a disaster....yes most likely, but that's my boy

Macklemore · June 26

LOLOLOLOL. Alpi for KD. Idiotic for even Windhorst to say.

Fud · June 26

I don't see the point of a KD trade. Whoever we cash in on needs to be a longer term option. Sengun plus stuff for Booker is fine, although I don't think the Suns make that move until after this season if they miss the playoffs in an ugly fashion. Booker also makes Green redundant and expendable

ChickenSandwich · June 26

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

They really threw the nets a life buoy. I really don’t think they had any avenue to make the playoffs this year and 2025 draft should be loaded. It does make sense that they push the timeline back a few years but you just never know what those Phoenix picks are going to look like. Don’t me wrong, betting on the suns to suck with Isiah pulling the strings being the scenes is a fantastic play, but that’s a big give.

The Nets with Bridges are one or two players from the play in games in the East. They have Ben Simmons expiring contract and the suns picks to trade.

Rockets are betting the Nets 25+26 picks would be in the double digits with Brooklyn having no benefit to tank. These picks don’t fit the Rockets current roster construction and timeline with their 6 young players

The Suns also have 2 players worth trading for vs Brooklyn

Edited June 26 by ChickenSandwich

BigOrange1 · June 26

since we're in silly season, lets find a way to get KD and Paul George while keeping Amen, Jabari and Tari. Draft Clingan 3rd. Dominate defensively while still having plenty of offense. Boom.

tx 3 putt · June 26

KD is the biggest bitch in the nba. Locker room killer and cry baby. He’d set the franchise back. He would not jive with the coaching staff

the core is in place, draft the best euro shooter and hope we can grow

Edited June 26 by tx 3 putt

Fud · June 26

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

KD is the biggest bitch in the nba. Locker room killer and cry baby. He’d set the franchise back

the core is in place, drafted the best European shooter and hope we can grwo

There's one good- but not great- Euro shooter, and he might not be available at #3

If you just want a shooter, then Sheppard, Dillingham, and Knecht are all potentially elite shooters, with Sheppard potentially being one of the best in the league

tx 3 putt · June 26

I have more faith in a euro improving / growing than a slow white guy

trade back if possible

Fud · June 26

HtownHorn · June 26

4 hours ago, Fud said:

I don't see the point of a KD trade. Whoever we cash in on needs to be a longer term option. Sengun plus stuff for Booker is fine, although I don't think the Suns make that move until after this season if they miss the playoffs in an ugly fashion. Booker also makes Green redundant and expendable

If they miss the playoffs in an ugly fashion, we likely get their pick. Phoenix is kinda in a difficult situation with an aging roster and their star player 36 years old. I guess if we do draft Clingon at #3 that changes the calculus some, but I don't think Stone is going to give up Sengun, Smith, or Thompson in a deal for Durant.

Edited June 26 by HtownHorn

LCHorn · June 26

4 hours ago, Fud said:

I don't see the point of a KD trade.

I don’t how much stock to put in this, but several “insiders” on Clutchfans have made the claim that Stone is pretty easy to read via his media mouthpieces, i.e., if it comes from Iko or Feigen then it’s what Stone WANTS them to say.

I realize this started with Woj, but I really doubt they want KD, it’s got to be about Booker.

tx 3 putt · June 26

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