Kevin Durant Longhorn Legend

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

11 hours ago, UTDD said:

I kind of think of Earl a little like a lesser accomplished version of Shaq -- amazing peak, completely dominant, but his career resume didn't really match his true talent.  I think Shaq to a lesser extent also didn't fulfill his true potential.  It's hard for me to compare baseball players so easily given the specialization, but obviously Clemens' career accomplishments are about as good as they get for a pitcher.    

I tried off the top of my head to rattle off ten great running backs and literally right now had Brown, Sanders, Payton, Emmitt, Dickerson, Campbell, Faulk, Tomlinson, Sayers, and O.J -- probably missing someone important or two, (like I just thought of Bo Jackson, another great RB cut down by injury) but I think Campbell (for me) belongs there.

For a 6-7 time period, Shaq was arguably the best player in the world at his sport.  Earl Thomas was never that.  He was 3 times All-Pro, 7 times Pro-Bowler and 1 time made the top 5 for DPOY, but he had nowhere the impact or career someone like Shaq did.  And yes, specialization makes it very difficult to compare across sports.  Baseball and Football because of specialization probably makes it a little easier to compare but even that's challenging.

Earl is now 37th on the All-time rushing yardage list and 26th on rushing TD career list.  We all love Earl, but he basically had a 4 year career.  He was very much a shooting star.  Good comparisons are Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis.  His star burned so bright for a few years but he was gone in the blink of an eye at the NFL level.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Patrick Bateman

[statsman 5693]

I hate to argue with guys that I never see a reason to argue with, but it’s clear you guys weren’t there for it (the point I’m arguing against is that Earl Campbell was a “fringe HoFer “). 
  
when he retired, he was the seventh all time rusher in NFL history. He was voted to the HoF in his first year eligible. He was no fringe HoFer. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

if you have to win a playoff game and you get to choose from every all-time RB at his peak, Earl Campbell is on the very, very short list of guys in consideration. no, his career number do not match up with many of the all-time greats, but at his best (which he did sustain for several years), he was as good as/better than 99.9% who ever did it. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

12 minutes ago, statsman said:

I hate to argue with guys that I never see a reason to argue with, but it’s clear you guys weren’t there for it (the point I’m arguing against is that Earl Campbell was a “fringe HoFer “). 
  
when he retired, he was the seventh all time rusher in NFL history. He was voted to the HoF in his first year eligible. He was no fringe HoFer. 

You're issue is with Wulaw, who described him as such.  No one else has.  But I think it's important to capture the essence of Earl's career.  To me, Terrell Davis and he are easily the best comparison.  Their first four years look almost identical rushing the ball.... Davis had much more impact receiving.  Davis also had much better playoff numbers but a lot of that is based on team accomplishments.  

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Patrick Bateman

[shadow_operative 15932]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

You're issue is with Wulaw, who described him as such.  No one else has.  But I think it's important to capture the essence of Earl's career.  To me, Terrell Davis and he are easily the best comparison.  Their first four years look almost identical rushing the ball.... Davis had much more impact receiving.  Davis also had much better playoff numbers but a lot of that is based on team accomplishments.  

 

 

maybe on paper they look similar, but the eye test makes TD look like a much inferior back, which he was. even Jim Brown said the list goes 1.Jim Brown, 2.Earl Campbell.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

12 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

maybe on paper they look similar, but the eye test makes TD look like a much inferior back, which he was. even Jim Brown said the list goes 1.Jim Brown, 2.Earl Campbell.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think a lot of fans can be accused of Rosy Retrospection and Foundation Bias....... The game has come a long way from 3 yards and cloud of dust strategy too.  But the numbers are pretty damn close and both are in the HOF and were incredible players, if too briefly for fans.

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think a lot of fans can be accused of Rosy Retrospection and Foundation Bias....... The game has come a long way from 3 yards and cloud of dust strategy too.  But the numbers are pretty damn close and both are in the HOF and were incredible players, if too briefly for fans.

 

everyone who ran for the Broncos under Shanahan did awesome, for one. secondly, look at the line TD was running behind, and the QB he had taking everyone's attention, and then compare it to Earl's Houston teams. and finally, there's no 'maybe' about it- Earl was a freak. a legendary freak. like Randy Moss at WR, or LT rushing the passer, or Jim Brown before him, or Aaron Donald today- there's no question about it, Earl did things that made other badass players' jaws drop. he's bigger and stronger than Christin Okoye, with fluid hips and vision like Eric Metcalf. Earl was one-of-a-kind. TD was a mere mortal who had a nice few years.

[closetohumping 17817]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

For a 6-7 time period, Shaq was arguably the best player in the world at his sport.  Earl Thomas was never that.  He was 3 times All-Pro, 7 times Pro-Bowler and 1 time made the top 5 for DPOY, but he had nowhere the impact or career someone like Shaq did.  And yes, specialization makes it very difficult to compare across sports.  Baseball and Football because of specialization probably makes it a little easier to compare but even that's challenging.

Earl is now 37th on the All-time rushing yardage list and 26th on rushing TD career list.  We all love Earl, but he basically had a 4 year career.  He was very much a shooting star.  Good comparisons are Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis.  His star burned so bright for a few years but he was gone in the blink of an eye at the NFL level.

 

 

I think the best quote on Shaq was from Bill Walton, I know, I know:  If you had a pick up game of the greatest players in the NBA, Shaq is the only guy that you would need to double.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

55 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

everyone who ran for the Broncos under Shanahan did awesome, for one. secondly, look at the line TD was running behind, and the QB he had taking everyone's attention, and then compare it to Earl's Houston teams. and finally, there's no 'maybe' about it- Earl was a freak. a legendary freak. like Randy Moss at WR, or LT rushing the passer, or Jim Brown before him, or Aaron Donald today- there's no question about it, Earl did things that made other badass players' jaws drop. he's bigger and stronger than Christin Okoye, with fluid hips and vision like Eric Metcalf. Earl was one-of-a-kind. TD was a mere mortal who had a nice few years.

Cool.  I would expect no other assessment on a Texas board than this.  I'm sure if you go over to a Denver one you may get a different assessment.  The point is both were great players who had abbreviated careers.  In basketball that may be akin to someone like Penny Hardaway or Grant Hill.  Maybe Yao Ming. 

Back to KD, he's definitely in the top 2 of Texas sports alums and he still has a good 3-4 years in him.

 

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

nobody on a denver board thinks that Terrell Davis is Earl Campbell's equal. this isn't some UT homeristic take, this is just simple fact.

[ztejas 44227]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

I think the best quote on Shaq was from Bill Walton, I know, I know:  If you had a pick up game of the greatest players in the NBA, Shaq is the only guy that you would need to double.

Very close behind on that list if not 2nd is the titular player. 

This thing really blew up. Few thoughts:

1. The best 1-2 punch from the major 3 sports is an interesting discussion. It's a fairly short list because most of the best baseball players didn't play in college and most of the best basketball players didn't go somewhere where football was worth a shit (Shaq is an interesting one - but LSU doesn't really have a huge standout from the NFL). Bo Jackson and Chuck is a fun one. I think KD/Clemens is easily 2nd behind MJ/LT. 

2. LT is absolutely a top 10 guy ever I think - he makes my first tier pantheon with Brady, Rice and Brown fwiw. 

3. From everything I've heard, read or researched about him Earl was incredible. I don't think as a pro he was at the KD/Clemens level, though, where you have to start knocking guys off the upper parts of all-time lists. At his peak, sure, Earl was absolutely up there - but career accomplishments wise - nah. 

4. I probably underrated Clemens career off the top of my head but also I have yet to see anyone actually flesh out Durant's career accomplishments in here - yet we are talking about Clemens 7 Cy Youngs and all time rankings on some lists. So let's do that. 

A Cy Young means best pitcher in your league/conference. I'll contend that Durant has been the best PLAYER in his conference 7 times as well, and without really having to reach all that hard:

2012, 2013, 2014, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021

The first 2 of those seasons he was runner-up MVP (he was in 2010 too but he wasn't better than Kobe that year). In 2014 he was the league MVP. I'll give 2016 to Steph. In 2017 and 2018 he was Finals MVP. In 2019 he was absolutely torching the playoffs and had made the Finals again before tearing his Achilles. 2021 speaks for itself. 

I'd also contend in those latter-most 2 years he was the best player in the league. 

On top of that, and granted he's still playing, he is:

- 5th in regular season ppg (and comes in at a cool 11th in career TS% on top of that)

- 8th in regular season PER

- 10th in regular season BPM

- 12th in regular season WS/48

Also:

- 3rd in playoff ppg

- 9th in career points in the playoffs (and just 3 points behind 8th place - he has a very good chance at finishing 2nd all time)

- 8th in career playoffs PER 

- 9th in career playoffs WS/48

- 7th in career playoffs BPM

- 12th in outright win shares and climbing as of last year 

Some more accolades:

4 time scoring leader (tied for 3rd most ever)

5 time playoffs scoring leader (ppg - and hilariously doesn't include last season although he was good for 34.3/game)

4 time gold medalist for the USA and was easily the best player on 3 of those squads (1 WC, 3 Olympics)

I also think he's a bigger star and sports celebrity than Clemens ever was but I obviously was not really around for Clemens prime so someone can correct me. 

---

TLDR I'm taking KD over Clemens but I'd hear both sides of that argument. I think they are pretty clearly 1 and 2 with Earl 3rd but I also think Earl has a nice gap between him and whoever 4th is (talk about another fun tangent argument - Earl Thomas? Ricky? Jamaal?).

[shadow_operative 15932]

Earl was the NFL rushing leader and MVP his first two years in the NFL. that's everything you need to know about his otherworldly dominance. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Very close behind on that list if not 2nd is the titular player. 

This thing really blew up. Few thoughts:

1. The best 1-2 punch from the major 3 sports is an interesting discussion. It's a fairly short list because most of the best baseball players didn't play in college and most of the best basketball players didn't go somewhere where football was worth a shit (Shaq is an interesting one - but LSU doesn't really have a huge standout from the NFL). Bo Jackson and Chuck is a fun one. I think KD/Clemens is easily 2nd behind MJ/LT. 

2. LT is absolutely a top 10 guy ever I think - he makes my first tier pantheon with Brady, Rice and Brown fwiw. 

---

TLDR I'm taking KD over Clemens but I'd hear both sides of that argument. I think they are pretty clearly 1 and 2 with Earl 3rd but I also think Earl has a nice gap between him and whoever 4th is (talk about another fun tangent argument - Earl Thomas? Ricky? Jamaal?).

Other 1-2 punches to consider:

UCLA -- KAJ/Jackie Robinson

FSU -- Deion/Buster Posey

WVU -- Sam Huff/Jerry West

USC -- Randy Johnson or Tom Seaver/OJ or Anthony Munoz or Ronnie Lott.  I lean towards Munoz.

Tennnessee -- Bernard King/Reggie White

Navy -- Staubach/Robinson

Texas has strong damn case and probably only 2nd next to Carolina....

 

[ztejas 44227]

2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Earl was the NFL rushing leader and MVP his first two years in the NFL. that's everything you need to know about his otherworldly dominance. 

I mean that's badass but he didn't keep it up. Were LeBron not a human being Durant would have 4 MVPs and obviously he has 4 scoring titles - and all 4 came in his first 7 seasons.

He remains the youngest scoring champ in league history. 

I don't think anyone here is knocking Earl - but we are talking strictly pro career and at the end of the day he just didn't have the career success of Durant or Rog.

[ztejas 44227]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Other 1-2 punches to consider:

UCLA -- KAJ/Jackie Robinson

FSU -- Deion/Buster Posey

WVU -- Sam Huff/Jerry West

USC -- Randy Johnson or Tom Seaver/OJ or Anthony Munoz or Ronnie Lott.  I lean towards Munoz.

Tennnessee -- Bernard King/Reggie White

Navy -- Staubach/Robinson

Texas has strong damn case and probably only 2nd next to Carolina....

 

Good stuff. I was trying to think of someone to pair with Neon. Knew they had some baseball history so Posey doesn't surprise me. Staubach/Robinson is strong to very strong (as is Seaver/OJ).

Edited August 22, 2021 by ztejas

[Underdog 29190]

Solid lists for Navy, UTenn & UCLA. 

[Kermit 3162]

32 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean that's badass but he didn't keep it up. Were LeBron not a human being Durant would have 4 MVPs and obviously he has 4 scoring titles - and all 4 came in his first 7 seasons.

He remains the youngest scoring champ in league history. 

I don't think anyone here is knocking Earl - but we are talking strictly pro career and at the end of the day he just didn't have the career success of Durant or Rog.

He didn’t keep it up because they ran him into the ground. Earl is a poster child for RB overuse. It fucking ruined him, being the everything for the Oilers. If we’re going to downgrade his professional career, that has to be taken into account.

[ztejas 44227]

3 minutes ago, Kermit said:

He didn’t keep it up because they ran him into the ground. Earl is a poster child for RB overuse. It fucking ruined him, being the everything for the Oilers. If we’re going to downgrade his professional career, that has to be taken into account.

Okay. Then let's take into account that Durant has missed close to 2 full seasons and a Finals due to injury. And has had multiple runs tanked due to the health of teammates. 

This street goes both ways. We aren't having this discussion if KD is a 3-4 time FMVP with 4 titles.

Obviously what happened to Earl is shittier than anything KD has been subjected to but that doesn't change what each of them has accomplished. Shit happens. 

[ztejas 44227]

I ran the 1-2 from the top 3 sports by my dad and he came up with a great one:

Heschel Walker and Dominique 

Another good point he just brought up - no one comes close to topping Texas' trio of KD/Clemens/Earl. I think there's a weak 3rd for every school. 

I mean, the fact that the top 3 that we're debating all played a different sport is pretty fucking cool and unique. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by ztejas

[closetohumping 17817]

29 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I ran the 1-2 from the top 3 sports by my dad and he came up with a great one:

Heschel Walker and Dominique 

Another good point he just brought up - no one comes close to topping Texas' trio of KD/Clemens/Earl. I think there's a weak 3rd for every school. 

I mean, the fact that the top 3 that we're debating all played a different sport is pretty fucking cool and unique. 

Just for fun:

UCLA: KAJ/Jackie/Troy or Jon Ogden.   Not bad.

[ztejas 44227]

17 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

UCLA: KAJ/Jackie/Troy

Yeah - this just came up in discussing with my fam. Not bad - although I'd put Roger above Jackie and Earl above Troy without thinking twice. (Cowboys fans guard your ears)

@shadow_operative also Earl doesn't have 2 MVPs. Not sure where you got that.

Edited August 23, 2021 by ztejas

[Uncle Boobs 1248]

Other 1-2 punches to consider:
UCLA -- KAJ/Jackie Robinson
FSU -- Deion/Buster Posey
WVU -- Sam Huff/Jerry West
USC -- Randy Johnson or Tom Seaver/OJ or Anthony Munoz or Ronnie Lott.  I lean towards Munoz.
Tennnessee -- Bernard King/Reggie White
Navy -- Staubach/Robinson
Texas has strong damn case and probably only 2nd next to Carolina....
 

Any Florida State list that doesn't include Bobby Sura is invalid.

[UTDD 362]

11 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

For a 6-7 time period, Shaq was arguably the best player in the world at his sport.  Earl Thomas was never that.  He was 3 times All-Pro, 7 times Pro-Bowler and 1 time made the top 5 for DPOY, but he had nowhere the impact or career someone like Shaq did.  And yes, specialization makes it very difficult to compare across sports.  Baseball and Football because of specialization probably makes it a little easier to compare but even that's challenging.

Earl is now 37th on the All-time rushing yardage list and 26th on rushing TD career list.  We all love Earl, but he basically had a 4 year career.  He was very much a shooting star.  Good comparisons are Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis.  His star burned so bright for a few years but he was gone in the blink of an eye at the NFL level.

 

 

Yeah, that's fair.  I like the Gale Sayers comparison as I think that's pretty dead on even though obviously their running styles are very different...but I still do kind of see Earl as someone who could have done a lot more, which is also how I feel about Shaq despite his great career.  I'm not as sold on Terrell Davis as an equivalent talent, but he was pretty good too.

[Mole 4339]

UNC has to reach a bit for baseball to add to the MJ/LT domination. They’ve had a few solid MLB players but nothing close to great. They also had Moonlight Graham, which is fun.

[ztejas 44227]

6 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Finally, on the Clemens tangent, he may be a prick and a cheater, and Swindell/Hooton may have been better in college, but Clemens is probably the greatest MLB pitcher of all time.  His career stats blow away everyone except for a couple of guys who pitched in the dead ball era.  I get if you want to discount that because of PEDs the same as you would Bonds and his records.  But if you're not discounting the numbers for PEDs, he's a legendary figure.  There's a big difference between a guy who was MVP or even Hall of Fame and a guy who was GOAT.

Re: Clemens cheating I think something to consider is how many hitters he faced that were juiced. Maybe he was juicing too, but it was hardly fair for any pitcher during that era.  

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Re: Clemens cheating I think something to consider is how many hitters he faced that were juiced. Maybe he was juicing too, but it was hardly fair for any pitcher during that era.  

If 70 or 80% of the league was juicing, which it seems probably is likely, then it was fair for everyone (more or less).  

[Harrison Stafford 3392]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:07 PM, shadow_operative said:

maybe on paper they look similar, but the eye test makes TD look like a much inferior back, which he was. even Jim Brown said the list goes 1.Jim Brown, 2.Earl Campbell.

Indeed, Jim Brown had himself as the best running back of all time followed by Earl Campbell.  After that, Brown said you could rank the rest of the RB's wherever you wanted.

[shadow_operative 15932]

i may have missed this one posted here already, but i don't remember seeing it:

Jesse Owens/Orlando Pace. just imagine if LeBron had actually spent one year tOSU. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18963]

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i may have missed this one posted here already, but i don't remember seeing it:

Jesse Owens/Orlando Pace. just imagine if LeBron had actually spent one year tOSU. 

Jack Nicklaus. 

[Eskimohorn 5682]

Hard to beat Larry Bird and Tunch Ilkin, who also may be the best football player of Turkish descent.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

If you open it up to other sports:

Stanford -- Elway/Tiger

Arizona State -- Phil/Barry Bonds

Baylor -- MIchael Johnson/Mike Singletary

Michigan -- Brady/Michael Phelps (may have a winner, although he didn't swim for them)

Houston -- Carl Lewis/Hakeem

Kansas -- Wilt/Gale Sayers

 

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

17 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If you open it up to other sports:

Stanford -- Elway/Tiger

Arizona State -- Phil/Barry Bonds

Baylor -- MIchael Johnson/Mike Singletary

Michigan -- Brady/Michael Phelps (may have a winner, although he didn't swim for them)

Houston -- Carl Lewis/Hakeem

Kansas -- Wilt/Gale Sayers

 

I will still take KD and Rocket over all those guys.  I'd probably go:

Stanford

Kansas

ASU

Michigan

Houston

Baylor

Those are all really good contributions though

[Eskimohorn 5682]

I will still take KD and Rocket over all those guys.  I'd probably go:
Stanford
Kansas
ASU
Michigan
Houston
Baylor
Those are all really good contributions though

Hakeem is better than Durant. Let’s see Durant beat the Lakers with Robert Reid and Granny Waiters.

Carl Lewis/Hakeem are the top combo.

[Mole 4339]

If you can include swimmers, Phelps/Brady probably beats MJ/LT for top spot, maybe.

[ztejas 44227]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

Hakeem is better than Durant. Let’s see Durant beat the Lakers with Robert Reid and Granny Waiters.

Carl Lewis/Hakeem are the top combo.

I probably don't disagree but they're starting to occupy very similar spots on many people's all time lists. 

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

4 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

Hakeem is better than Durant. Let’s see Durant beat the Lakers with Robert Reid and Granny Waiters.

Carl Lewis/Hakeem are the top combo.

Roger Clemens is more iconic than Carl Lewis would be my response. 
I don’t know how you can compare someone in a fringe sport that nobody in particular cares about other than for one week every 4 years to a top 10 all time guy in America’s longest tenured and established major sport. That’s my argument for the UT contingent. Also I love Hakeem and had season tickets (my dad did- I went to every game) to the two title years. I will never say anything bad about Hakeem, he was awesome. I think it’s possible KD ends up with what’s considered a better career. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[ztejas 44227]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTDO8CUJpH7/?utm_medium=copy_link

[shadow_operative 15932]

[Vic Mackey 47959]

[hobbes2702 13477]

4 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Durant and it’s not particularly close

[shadow_operative 15932]

KD is half a foot taller and is a much better shooter. I agree with hobbes, I think he wins the matchup 7-8 times out of 10. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

8 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

KD... agree, it's not that close.  Kobe even admits he couldn't figure how to play KD defensively.  Couldn't figure him out.

[aggie08 21800]

KD is probably my pick for best 1v1 player ever. If 3's count, I'm definitely picking him over MJ.

[HookEm 2509]

Late to the party on the college rankings, but give me ASU over Texas.  Using various online rankings they have:

Barry Bonds - #3 MLB all time

*Phil Mickelson - #7 PGA all time

*James Harden - #32 NBA all time

Reggie Jackson - #38 MLB all time

(vs)

*Kevin Durant - #13 NBA all time

Roger Clemons - #15 MLB all time

Earl Campbell - #58 NFL all time

*Jordan Spieth - #31 PGA all time

Ben Crenshaw - #39 PGA all time

Rankings are subjective obviously.

[ztejas 44227]

3 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Late to the party on the college rankings, but give me ASU over Texas.  Using various online rankings they have:

Barry Bonds - #3 MLB all time

*Phil Mickelson - #7 PGA all time

*James Harden - #32 NBA all time

Reggie Jackson - #38 MLB all time

(vs)

*Kevin Durant - #13 NBA all time

Roger Clemons - #15 MLB all time

Earl Campbell - #58 NFL all time

*Jordan Spieth - #31 PGA all time

Ben Crenshaw - #39 PGA all time

Rankings are subjective obviously.

What crackpot fucking site has Phil as the 7th best golfer ever? 

[ztejas 44227]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

His fringey Top 10. I’ve got him at 10-12.

Agree. He's comfortably top 15. Maybe could hear an argument for 10th. Personally I have everyone with more majors above him - save maybe Vardon - and I for sure have Trevino above him. He could potentially be knocked down a peg but not sure how close anyone is yet. Rory the closest but needs at least a Masters to make it a debate. 

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

15 hours ago, ztejas said:

Agree. He's comfortably top 15. Maybe could hear an argument for 10th. Personally I have everyone with more majors above him - save maybe Vardon - and I for sure have Trevino above him. He could potentially be knocked down a peg but not sure how close anyone is yet. Rory the closest but needs at least a Masters to make it a debate. 

Nah- you are underrating Phil and overrating Trevino.

Tiger, Jack, Hogan (I think this is inarguably the top 3, though you could put them in different orders and not be wrong but that's my exact order), then pretty clearly Player, Watson and Sam Sneed.  I don't know  what to do with Hagen, Jones and Sarazen since they played in an era where not everyone was a pro- so I'm just going to more or less arbitrarily draw a line at anyone playing as a professional during an era when that was looked down upon.  Also- fuck that was a long time ago. I'd probably then go Nelson, Mickleson, Faldo, Palmer, Seve, Trevino in that order.  Some people might think I have Palmer way too low.  I just can't get past the fact that golf is so much more competitive and so many deeper fields when Phil and Tiger played than when Jack and Arnie played.  So, that's in essence a tie breaker for me for people with similar stats. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:05 AM, aggie08 said:

KD is probably my pick for best 1v1 player ever. If 3's count, I'm definitely picking him over MJ.

Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that. He marries small man skills with Height and Length.  He's tall enough to bother the centers down low while just toasting them from the outside when he has the ball- and he's quick enough to bother the guards with his length on the outside while on offense he'd just torch a 6'2" motherfucker.  

Lebron might be too strong for him.  I'd pay a lot of money to see KD and Lebron do 1x1 if they were both in their primes, but I think I'm betting on KD. I know I'm betting on KD over Jordan in 1v1.  6 inches is a big deal (that's what she said).

[ztejas 44227]

29 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nah- you are underrating Phil and overrating Trevino.

I'm not - but you don't have to agree with me. Trevino led the tour in scoring average FIVE times and I'd actually argue his era was tougher than Phil's when it came to winning tournaments. He also missed a bunch of Masters in his prime. 

As for earlier eras it isn't the most straightforward comparison but I think golf is easier to compare than some other sports. I would never put Phil above Bobby Jones, for example. Jones was too good and won too much in a short span. I also wouldn't put Phil above Arnie but agree they're close. 

[immortal13 4059]

Can we please talk golf on the golf forum? I don't even know who Trevino is, but he sounds like he probably fucking sucks at basketball