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Patrick Bateman

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Thatguy

Thatguy 9033

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On 9/1/2021 at 2:09 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

  Some people might think I have Palmer way too low.  I just can't get past the fact that golf is so much more competitive and so many deeper fields when Phil and Tiger played than when Jack and Arnie played.  So, that's in essence a tie breaker for me for people with similar stats. 

 

 

On 9/1/2021 at 2:42 PM, ztejas said:

I'm not - but you don't have to agree with me. Trevino led the tour in scoring average FIVE times and I'd actually argue his era was tougher than Phil's when it came to winning tournaments. He also missed a bunch of Masters in his prime. 

As for earlier eras it isn't the most straightforward comparison but I think golf is easier to compare than some other sports. I would never put Phil above Bobby Jones, for example. Jones was too good and won too much in a short span. I also wouldn't put Phil above Arnie but agree they're close. 

   I will not say the field was tougher in the Jack era, but what I will say is this. If you were paying attention, Phil despite being older, never beat Tiger. He only won Majors when Tiger was either injured or fiddling with his swing. Trevino and Jack are the same age. Trevino had to go through Jack. Jack was 2nd in the 68 US Open, 2nd in the 1971 US Open, 5th in the 1971 Open, 2nd in the 1972 Open, and 2nd in the 1974 PGA. All to Lee Trevino. Gary Player was the runner up when Trevino won his last major at the 1984 PGA.

  There might not have been as much comp back in the day, but at least Trevino went through prime Jack. Trevino is better than Phil and it's not even close in my mind. Plus his story is bad ass, and should be told to children everywhere.

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ztejas

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5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I will not say the field was tougher in the Jack era, but what I will say is this. If you were paying attention, Phil despite being older, never beat Tiger. He only won Majors when Tiger was either injured or fiddling with his swing. Trevino and Jack are the same age. Trevino had to go through Jack. Jack was 2nd in the 68 US Open, 2nd in the 1971 US Open, 5th in the 1971 Open, 2nd in the 1972 Open, and 2nd in the 1974 PGA. All to Lee Trevino. Gary Player was the runner up when Trevino won his last major at the 1984 PGA.

Basically what I was getting at. To win anything you typically had to knock a big dog off of the top (if not multiple). In the 2000s unless it was Tiger then there weren't a ton of guys that you were constantly battling to try and scratch out wins. 

Maybe they won more because the field was weaker or maybe they won more because they were better golfers. I think both statements hold some weight. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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KD easily my favorite player to watch. The most pure baller of my lifetime. Not going to be affected by any rule change b/c his game is not about cheating the game.

I know I'm late to the knuckleheads podcast party, but the episodes with Gervin and Dr. J are amazing. Dr. J offers Gervin as a good KD comp.

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ztejas

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He's the only player in NBA history (alright not quite but I've never seen anyone do stuff like that as often as he does) that can do what he did starting at :08 in that clip. It's amazing how effortless he makes a basically impossible move look.

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Hornius Emeritus

Hornius Emeritus 12496

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On 10/22/2021 at 11:37 PM, ztejas said:

He's the only player in NBA history (alright not quite but I've never seen anyone do stuff like that as often as he does) that can do what he did starting at :08 in that clip. It's amazing how effortless he makes a basically impossible move look.



You almost get the feeling the game is coming to him TOO easy now. 

There have been other players who could do what he did (Spencer Haywood, Connie Hawkins) on that shot but they didn't have his unstoppable outside game.

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westexhorn

westexhorn 2021

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On 10/22/2021 at 11:37 PM, ztejas said:

He's the only player in NBA history (alright not quite but I've never seen anyone do stuff like that as often as he does) that can do what he did starting at :08 in that clip. It's amazing how effortless he makes a basically impossible move look.

He basically plays like a shooting guard as a 7 footer.  It's quite the spectacle. 

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ztejas

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7 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:



You almost get the feeling the game is coming to him TOO easy now. 

There have been other players who could do what he did (Spencer Haywood, Connie Hawkins) on that shot but they didn't have his unstoppable outside game.

Yeah but I don't think they had the handles he does. He puts the balls exactly where it needs to be down to the nearest square inch to get through both defenders there. 

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ztejas

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Some more fun ones through his first 8 games:

He's posting the 5th highest ppg in NBA history for players making 5 or less free throws per game. (not sure why he doesn't appear on this one - but his current ppg is 28.3). The 4 seasons above him include 3 seasons that were over 50 years ago and Curry's absolutely insane 2016 season where they won 73 games.

ftg.PNG.dc372c3e790ca00d486d8878a965ffe8.PNG

His combination of efg% (which weighs 3 point fg% alongside 2 point fg% to give an accurate measure of how efficient a player's FGA are) and ppg is completely unprecedented (edit: outside of Curry's 2016 season) and to find a season where a player had a higher efg% you have to go down to a Wilt season from 1967 where he scored 24.1 ppg (unless you include Jokic's current season through 8 games - yeah, Jokic is pretty good, too). Oh - and this is with Durant shooting 1.3% lower from 3 than he has for his career.

777733746_effectivefieldgoal.PNG.e669ecf9a4e1a1faa5b70e456ef5ed38.PNG

But neither of these really highlight how nuts what he's doing so far is, because you need to account for the fact that he's taking 72.8% of his shots further than 10 feet from the basket. And his straight up FG% is 59.2%. There are centers that live around the rim that have a worse FG%. For comparison - Jokic's current season highlighted in the search above is featuring him shoot only 42.6% of his shots from further than 10 feet. Durant is hitting 59.6% of his shots between 10 and 16 feet and SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT between 16 feet and the 3 line. And the large majority of those shots are tightly contested.

Also - he isn't really buoying any of this by hitting a lot of 3s at a high clip like Curry was doing in 2016. In that season Curry took over 60% of his shots from 3. Durant right now is taking less than 25% of his shots behind the arc - and so far it is more efficient for him to shoot between 10 and 24 feet for 2 points than 24+ for 3 - which basically completely breaks everything analytics have told us and suggested players do for the past 5-10 seasons. You'd literally rather have Durant take a 17 footer than have a 40% 3 point shooter attempt a 3.

No one has ever even remotely shot at a clip like this at a volume like this between 10 and 24 feet from the basket. Granted, that shooting data only goes back to 1996 but it doesn't really matter. Even if you were extremely generous to past scorers there's no way you could fudge the numbers anywhere close to what he is doing from those ranges. 

Sure - it's just 8 games and I doubt he keeps it up to this degree - but just doing this through 8 games is insane. 

Oh right - maybe the most nuts bullet point on this of all of them: the league is currently complaining about the ball they are using, complaining about not getting foul calls on shot attempts, and collectively shooting the lowest 3p% in like 25 seasons and the lowest FG% in 17 years. Meanwhile Durant is working on posting bar none the greatest mid range shooting season in the history of the league. 

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ztejas

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If Durant wins another scoring title this year (currently leading) it would be 8 years since his last scoring title - surpassing the previous biggest gap we've seen of 5 years by both Arizin and Curry. 

It would also give him the biggest gap between first and (potentially) last scoring titles of 12 years - surpassing MJ's 11 years between his first in '87 and last in '98.

AND make him the 3rd player to win it at 33 or older (Steph, MJ ×2).

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13672

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44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/16/22783801/kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets-rule-changes-scoring

One could make an argument for Giannis, but I feel like Durant is the best player in the game right now--an odd thing to say about an "old" 33-year-old starting his 15th season in the NBA.

KD was a one-man army in last season's playoffs and during the Summer Olympics, and he's picked up right where he left off this season. Nets would be trash without him, especially with Kyrie going full retard.

He'll never be considered an elite shooter (compared to the likes of Steph, Bird, Miller, etc.), but his height, handle and range make him unguardable. And ever since he went to GSW, his defense has improved drastically since his younger days, particularly off the ball.

 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3942

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1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

One could make an argument for Giannis, but I feel like Durant is the best player in the game right now--an odd thing to say about an "old" 33-year-old starting his 15th season in the NBA.

KD was a one-man army in last season's playoffs and during the Summer Olympics, and he's picked up right where he left off this season. Nets would be trash without him, especially with Kyrie going full retard.

He'll never be considered an elite shooter (compared to the likes of Steph, Bird, Miller, etc.), but his height, handle and range make him unguardable. And ever since he went to GSW, his defense has improved drastically since his younger days, particularly off the ball.

 

Jokic is the other guy in the discussion.  If I had to choose one guy in a series or a game to play for me, it's probably KD right now.  His efficiency is nuts, but Jokic's proving last year was not a fluke and Giannis is a unicorn.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

One could make an argument for Giannis, but I feel like Durant is the best player in the game right now--an odd thing to say about an "old" 33-year-old starting his 15th season in the NBA.

KD was a one-man army in last season's playoffs and during the Summer Olympics, and he's picked up right where he left off this season. Nets would be trash without him, especially with Kyrie going full retard.

He'll never be considered an elite shooter (compared to the likes of Steph, Bird, Miller, etc.), but his height, handle and range make him unguardable. And ever since he went to GSW, his defense has improved drastically since his younger days, particularly off the ball.

 

Not an elite shooter? Dude is close to 50/40/90 for his career (49.6/38.4/88.2). That's fucking elite, man 

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satyanash

satyanash 14769

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Another moster game for KD. 34pts/11reb/8ast in a win over the 76ers.

The anti-KD bias in the NBA is insane. KD is scoring more than Curry, at better efficiency, and is playing better defense. He also has the Nets at #1 in the East with no Kyrie and a hobbled Harden. But Curry is the runaway MVP favorite 🙄

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Blotto

Blotto 23680

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6 hours ago, satyanash said:

Another moster game for KD. 34pts/11reb/8ast in a win over the 76ers.

The anti-KD bias in the NBA is insane. KD is scoring more than Curry, at better efficiency, and is playing better defense. He also has the Nets at #1 in the East with no Kyrie and a hobbled Harden. But Curry is the runaway MVP favorite 🙄

I don't know if it's an anti-kd bias as much as it is a pro Steph bias. Steph has cultivated a more likeable, fan-favorite persona and the Warriors are certainly a more likeable team. NBA mvp voting has had more than a few questionable results over the years. 

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ztejas

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12 hours ago, satyanash said:

Another moster game for KD. 34pts/11reb/8ast in a win over the 76ers.

The anti-KD bias in the NBA is insane. KD is scoring more than Curry, at better efficiency, and is playing better defense. He also has the Nets at #1 in the East with no Kyrie and a hobbled Harden. But Curry is the runaway MVP favorite 🙄

He wouldn't be a runaway right now but he might still edge KD. Idk. It would be close. 

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-kevin-durant-reclaims-no-1-spot

With the efficient Durant leading the way, Brooklyn now owns a record of 12-3 in clutch situations (games within five points over the last five minutes), which ranks as one of the best in the league. Durant is one of five players in Nets history to produce a 50-point game, joining Vince Carter, Kyrie Irving, Caris LeVert and Stephon Marbury. Durant is the only player in Nets history to post a 50-point game and a triple-double in back-to-back outings. “Kevin is the most unaffected basketball player maybe of all time,” Griffin said. “High-difficulty shots, and he just shoots it like nobody’s there.”

That record in "clutch games" is insane.

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