Kevin Durant Longhorn Legend

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

the fact that people bend over backwards to diss him every time GS does something well is just so weird to me. but then i have to remind myself that basketball fans are far and away the least knowledgeable sports fans on the planet. to this day, NO ONE has been able to name a viable alternative to KD joining GS. no one. they all cry and whine about him and diss him and call him a ring chaser, but then they can't say where else he should have gone. the entire anti-KD movement is based on the idea that he should have either stayed with Russ (🙄), or that should have gone and joined some other shitty team that had no chance of winning. and we know full well that he done that, these very same people would be killing him for not having any titles.

he's a top ~15 player ever who was the best player/finals mvp on two title teams, and yet somehow he's become the punching bag of every idiot and twitter troll who casually follows the NBA. anyone who hates on KD like this is simply showing his ass.

A viable alternative would have been literally any other team in the entire nba. Is that what you were looking for? It was a bitch move. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by youdunnf'dup

[Hate 20247]

It would have been like Jordan joining the Pistons after the 1990 season. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

Uhmmm…aren’t you a basketball fan?

there are several people who post here whose opinions i really respect. maybe 5 or 6 guys who follow college hoops, and 3 or 4 guys who follow the nba. i consider this community to have a high percentage of knowledgeable fans compared to your average joe who watches/talks about the sport and his group of friends. this of course makes sense as the type of people who would dedicate their time posting online about a particular subject would be people who follow that subject more closely than most. and yet and still the actual number of posters whose opinions i really value is relatively small.

for my money, baseball fans tend to be more knowledgeable about the sport, it's history, and the day to day comings and goings, probably because a)it's a more niche sport, and b)it's a special type of sport that evokes passion and gets handed down from one generation to the next. i'd say that the other "best" or most knowledgeable fans also follow less popular sports- hockey, tennis, golf, etc. 

that said, for whatever reason, hoops fans all over the internet and in my real life experience, truly don't understand how the sport works. from not understanding the importance of specific role players, to not understand how vital chemistry is, to not even understand how to compose a well rounded team, hoops fans all have opinions but in general just don't know shit. i see these online polls where they put together teams of five all time greats and ask, "who would win???", with tens of thousands of people voting, if not more, and with alarmingly consistency, this type of team:

Iverson 

Kobe

T Mac

Duncan

Shaq

 

over a team that looks something like

Stockton

MJ

Bird

KG

Hakeem

 

just zero understanding that pairing a bunch of guys who all do the same thing/require 30 shots per game doesn't equal a great team.

basketball fans also seem value and appreciate the significance of coaching less than anyone save maybe soccer fans. so many hoops fans really just think "oh they practice a few days a week and then roll the ball and go hoop on game day." zero clue about how much game planning and scouting and in-game adjustments have an impact on the game. 

that's my observation on hoops fans, and i find it very irritating. it's why guys like devin booker and jayson tatum get fellated and overrated while so many unsexy euro bigs can't get any love or recognition, even those with two mvps and several heroic nba playoff performances.

[shadow_operative 15932]

2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

A viable alternative would have been literally any other team in the entire nba. Is that what you were looking for? It was a bitch move. 

how in the fuck does that make sense for KD? he's been in the league for NINE years and had been to the Finals a total of one time, where they got destroyed. he was going to lose prime harden and be shackled to that selfish idiot Russ for the rest of his prime years with his entire legacy on the line. if he didn't go to Golden State then he would have gone to San Antonio, who then would have instantly become co-title favorites at worst, which is the exact same thing as going to GS. so your suggestion is that he should have gone and committed the rest of his prime to playing for some other shit franchise where he'd never win and you'd be here calling him a loser? dope argument. next. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

It would have been like Jordan joining the Pistons after the 1990 season. 

no. totally different eras. michael wanted to kill isiah, just literally choke him to death at mid court. meanwhile all if these guys are pals since they're 12 and riding banana boats together.

also, MJ lost to Detroit as his team was in the ascendancy with every reason to believe that multiple titles were in their near futures. KD had spent nine years with the OKC organization and jack shit to show for it/jack shit in the way of prospects for winning in the near future. completely different situations.

his two options: join one of GS or SA

or 

ruin any chance at being considered an all time great/winning an nba title by signing up to play for some other trash team. you would have done the exact same thing he did. 

[TommyGufano 6023]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

the fact that people bend over backwards to diss him every time GS does something well is just so weird to me. but then i have to remind myself that basketball fans are far and away the least knowledgeable sports fans on the planet. to this day, NO ONE has been able to name a viable alternative to KD joining GS. no one. they all cry and whine about him and diss him and call him a ring chaser, but then they can't say where else he should have gone. the entire anti-KD movement is based on the idea that he should have either stayed with Russ (🙄), or that should have gone and joined some other shitty team that had no chance of winning. and we know full well that he done that, these very same people would be killing him for not having any titles.

he's a top ~15 player ever who was the best player/finals mvp on two title teams, and yet somehow he's become the punching bag of every idiot and twitter troll who casually follows the NBA. anyone who hates on KD like this is simply showing his ass.

Celtics

[Dutchrudder 11243]

Kawhi and KD would have been quite the 1-2 punch on the Spurs.  That team would have won at least 2 rings. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

Celtics

i don't remember the ins and outs but it was made clear that the C's were never an option. 

[Pam Cummings 9868]

9 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

A viable alternative would have been literally any other team in the entire nba. Is that what you were looking for? It was a bitch move. 

Ive always wondered if that would have been allowed in Stern's NBA....but how would he have nixed it?

 

The excitement of him finally leaving Westbrook behind was kinda ruined with my realization of "well nobody's ever gonna beat the Warriors now".

Edited June 18, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[statsman 5693]

Upthread, someone posted that Curry being great and having success doesn’t diminish Durant’s greatness. I believe that, too. I wonder if Curry was fortunate in landing in his circumstance- a team built around his skills with teammates completely aligned- or if his mild mannered demeanor masks an inner vision and understanding, and a determination to mold his surroundings to it. Perhaps he has the ability to effect change without appearing obtrusive (like LeBron looks). If so, his personal skills and strategic vision surpass Jerry West’s (and it’s quite possible they do, and maybe the league has a new logo).
Durant came into the league with a belief in how the game should be played- unselfishly. He notably refused the trappings and perks of stardom as a young player, insisting on being just another Sonic (and Thunder). SI had a story of the Thunder doing running drills on a hill near the team center, and Durant refusing to claim a special seat in the truck, one that was more accommodating to his height. That just wasn’t what he meant to be.

He spent his early and mid years trying to improve his all around game, something that not all scoring stars bother to do (see Adrian Dantley and Gervin). He wanted to be the best player and teammate he could.

Unlike Curry, he did not end up on a team built around his skill set (unless you buy into the idea that, as the star, his job was to do everything his teammates couldn’t, when needed to).  He did not have teammates that understood their roles in the game and on the team. 
Unlike LeBron, he did not try to force the team into the form he though most complementary to his game. Maybe he should have been more that way, but that’s just not him.

Why did he join GS? I’m going with what he wrote in the Players Tribune- that’s how he wanted to play. He saw how well the ball moved and their stars got open looks so easily (all they were required to do was stay focused in the game and keep working, stuff he never shied from), and wanted that. He interviewed the teams noted, gave OKC a courtesy interview (which got them all overexcited and probably just confirmed that they didn’t “get it”), and signed with the team that most matched what he wanted to do. I really think it’s as simple as that.

He had to leave GS after Green pitched a fit, and tries to try on LeBron’s shows, driving a team’s construction (note that he wanted a GS coach, to keep playing the same). Age and injuries- it is by no means a sure thing. With all that- I still find rooting for KD to be a very rewarding fan activity.

 

[TommyGufano 6023]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i don't remember the ins and outs but it was made clear that the C's were never an option. 

Obviously it's his prerogative to not want to live in Boston or around ppl from Boston (I'd never hold that against anyone), but they were one of the teams that he granted a visit. They had cap space out the ass, made it clear they wanted him and Al, were a team on the ascent, had dumb draft capital and landed a 1-seed and ECF berth the next year w/o KD. So I just think it's a weird take to say they weren't viable. Also here's a(n admittedly meaningless) simulation that plays out the KD-to-Boston scenario: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-if-kevin-durant-signed-celtics-2016-playing-out-cs-season

[SilasCoade 2622]

I don't agree that KD had no other options in 2016 that would have led to championships. He interviewed with GSW, Spurs, Clippers, Boston, and Miami. From a basketball standpoint GS and the Spurs were the clear top options. Boston was a distant 4th behind the Clippers, plus I just cannot imagine Danny Ainge coming off well to a guy like KD. The Heat roster was pretty trash. From a basketball standpoint they would have been the worst choice.

The Spurs would have likely been dominant with KD, Kawhi, and Aldridge. A functional Danny Green as a 3 and D guy with occasional bursts of old school Manu to steady the second unit? Gimme some of that please. I think the non-basketball factors made San Antonio a non-starter. He'd already done his time in small market conservative culture purgatory at OKC. I can definitely understand wanting to go somewhere that being a young famous multimillionaire would be more fun. Paintball doesn't strike me as KD's scene.

The Clippers would have been fucking scary on offense with CP3, Blake before the precipitous decline, Redick, a still-serviceable DeAndre Jordan, and Jamal Crawford off the bench. But I think there has to be some of that same Ainge-effect there with the personalities of CP3 and Doc Rivers not really being KD's style. Not sure they would have been able to match up with the Warriors on defense, but they could probably outscore anyone.

So, yeah, he had options, but the Warriors were clearly the best option, not just in terms of forming a dominant super team that would guarantee titles, but in terms of basketball culture, personality fit, and non-basketball opportunities. That's a lot of words to say it's weird that people think making the obviously best decision detracts from his greatness and even weirder that the continued success of a franchise that is in the top 3 or 4 managed teams in the league* detracts from his greatness. Haters gotta hate I guess.

 

 

* Warriors, Spurs, Heat, Celtics probably in that order, IMO.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

11 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

how in the fuck does that make sense for KD? he's been in the league for NINE years and had been to the Finals a total of one time, where they got destroyed. he was going to lose prime harden and be shackled to that selfish idiot Russ for the rest of his prime years with his entire legacy on the line. if he didn't go to Golden State then he would have gone to San Antonio, who then would have instantly become co-title favorites at worst, which is the exact same thing as going to GS. so your suggestion is that he should have gone and committed the rest of his prime to playing for some other shit franchise where he'd never win and you'd be here calling him a loser? dope argument. next. 

In your hypothetical scenario, joining San Antonio would not have been the same thing. Not even close. San Antonio didn’t just beat you after being down 3-1, and San Antonio didn’t just come off of back to back finals appearances without you. San Antonio wasn’t a Draymond green suspension away from being back to back champs without you. They didn’t just come off the greatest regular season of all time without you.

He could’ve gone to LITERALLY any other team in the nba, and he wouldn’t have gotten the reaction he got. 

[Vic Mackey 47952]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

In your hypothetical scenario, joining San Antonio would not have been the same thing. Not even close. San Antonio didn’t just beat you after being down 3-1, and San Antonio didn’t just come off of back to back finals appearances without you. San Antonio wasn’t a Draymond green suspension away from being back to back champs without you. They didn’t just come off the greatest regular season of all time without you.

He could’ve gone to LITERALLY any other team in the nba, and he wouldn’t have gotten the reaction he got. 

Agreed. Hell, if he stayed in OKC, they would have still been contenders. And the West would have been pretty fun with GSW, Houston, SA and OKC. 

And don't forget in 2013 when Westbrook went down with an injury in 2013 in the 1st round against Houston, they ended up beating Houston in 6 but then the next round against an overachieving Memphis team, he leads him team to get swept. That was not a good look. KD had plenty of chances when in OKC to lead his team to a ring but always came up short. But so many just blamed Westrbook. And while he was at fault, too, KD was just as much to blame. When the moment became big, he choked.

KD joined the team he could not beat and choked against. With that team coming off a 73 win season and a game 7 Finals loss. He knew he could blend in and get some rings. And he did. But he knows no one respected them at all and that move tarnished his image. And it doesn't help he has many Twitter burners to argue with fans that trash him. It's a corny look. Hell, at least argue on your real page. 

Curry won a ring before and after KD. GSW replaced KD with Wiggins and still won a ring, and quite easily. That right there shows how little KD meant to their success. GSW was already a force with and without KD. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

Agreed. Hell, if he stayed in OKC, they would have still been contenders. And the West would have been pretty fun with GSW, Houston, SA and OKC. 

And don't forget in 2013 when Westbrook went down with an injury in 2013 in the 1st round against Houston, they ended up beating Houston in 6 but then the next round against an overachieving Memphis team, he leads him team to get swept. That was not a good look. KD had plenty of chances when in OKC to lead his team to a ring but always came up short. But so many just blamed Westrbook. And while he was at fault, too, KD was just as much to blame. When the moment became big, he choked.

KD joined the team he could not beat and choked against. With that team coming off a 73 win season and a game 7 Finals loss. He knew he could blend in and get some rings. And he did. But he knows no one respected them at all and that move tarnished his image. And it doesn't help he has many Twitter burners to argue with fans that trash him. It's a corny look. Hell, at least argue on your real page. 

Curry won a ring before and after KD. GSW replaced KD with Wiggins and still won a ring, and quite easily. That right there shows how little KD meant to their success. GSW was already a force with and without KD. 

I won’t even go as far as he choked. And I get why he wanted to leave OKC. I’m not faulting him for that. I’m not faulting him for losing to that team after being down 3-1. But as a competitor, that should eat away at you a little bit.
 

Even if those are your friends over there (in fact, ESPECIALLY if they’re your friends) most competitors would be like “fuck that team. Maybe j have to leave OKC to beat that team, but I have to avenge that. Fuck them.” Joining them after all that just makes you look like a bitch. I said this in another thread but I love KD the basketball player. Arguably the best offensive player to ever step foot on a basketball court and he has a great argument. He went to Texas. I love all that. I just wish he didn’t pull what will go down as one of, if not the biggest bitch moves in nba history. It’s something that is going to stick with his legacy, and it really didn’t have to be this way.

[Vic Mackey 47952]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I won’t even go as far as he choked. And I get why he wanted to leave OKC. I’m not faulting him for that. I’m not faulting him for losing to that team after being down 3-1. But as a competitor, that should eat away at you a little bit.
 

Even if those are your friends over there (in fact, ESPECIALLY if they’re your friends) most competitors would be like “fuck that team. Maybe j have to leave OKC to beat that team, but I have to avenge that. Fuck them.” Joining them after all that just makes you look like a bitch. I said this in another thread but I love KD the basketball player. Arguably the best offensive player to ever step foot on a basketball court and he has a great argument. He went to Texas. I love all that. I just wish he didn’t pull what will go down as one of, if not the biggest bitch moves in nba history. It’s something that is going to stick with his legacy, and it really didn’t have to be this way.

Oh he definitely choked. Especially when the moment became big. 2014 against SA come to mind as well as 2016 GSW. 

He did not elevate his game when he went to GSW. That team was already a machine and it hid any faults he had. He looked better because in that machine, there just was no way to guard them all so they all looked elevated. He was no longer the main focus defenders needed to worry about when there was also 2 of the best shooters in the league next to him. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

I said Haters gotta hate and Vic took that personally.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Llogg

[statsman 5693]

I can’t say I look at sports the way Vic does (if his team wins, he came up big. If his team loses, he choked), but I can see how it is easy on the brain to use that approach, rather than try to analyze whys and how’s. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18963]

I really can't believe we're still debating this all these years later. 

Was it a bitch move to go to GS? Yes. Was it the smartest move? Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

Does KD publicly acting like a spoiled, petulant butthurt child negatively contribute to his image and feed into the narrative? Yes. He brings so much of this shit on himself unnecessarily. 

Is he one of greatest all time? Yes. Does the Warriors winning another chip without him damage his legacy? Honestly, a little. Even if it's unfair, it's there. They won before him. They won with him. They won after him. The consistent thing is their winning, not him. All the talk this week is about Steph moving into the tier of the all time greats. If Durant had won this year with Brooklyn, the talk would be where he ranks among the all time greats.  So, if another guy is passing you on that hypothetical made up bullshit list, then your "legacy" is damaged. Sorry, somebody is going to be left without a chair when the music stops. 

I'm just going to add one more thing as it pertains to Curry... Basketball at its best and highest level is ego-less. It's all about the winning and nothing about caring who gets credit for it. Curry is ego-less and a leader the same way that Tim Duncan was. He elevates his teammates. Does anybody think that Durant has ever truly elevated his teammates?

Sure he got saddled with Russ but did he ever make him better? Impossible to do, right? Then he chose to sign up with that idiot Kyrie and Harden. Again, an impossible job, right? At some point, isn't it his job to make those guys better? Isn't that what all the greatest players have done from MJ to LeBron to Magic to Bird to Duncan?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's selfish or a bad teammate or anything like that. And all of this is probably unfair, hindsight, goal post moving. But unless he wins another ring his epitaph is going to read, "one of the coldest and most lethal offensive players of all time who coat tailed two rings on maybe the greatest team of all time, but for whatever reason was never great enough to be the focal point of a championship team." 

[Brian Fantana 6863]

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I really can't believe we're still debating this all these years later. 

Was it a bitch move to go to GS? Yes. Was it the smartest move? Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

Does KD publicly acting like a spoiled, petulant butthurt child negatively contribute to his image and feed into the narrative? Yes. He brings so much of this shit on himself unnecessarily. 

Is he one of greatest all time? Yes. Does the Warriors winning another chip without him damage his legacy? Honestly, a little. Even if it's unfair, it's there. They won before him. They won with him. They won after him. The consistent thing is their winning, not him. All the talk this week is about Steph moving into the tier of the all time greats. If Durant had won this year with Brooklyn, the talk would be where he ranks among the all time greats.  So, if another guy is passing you on that hypothetical made up bullshit list, then your "legacy" is damaged. Sorry, somebody is going to be left without a chair when the music stops. 

I'm just going to add one more thing as it pertains to Curry... Basketball at its best and highest level is ego-less. It's all about the winning and nothing about caring who gets credit for it. Curry is ego-less and a leader the same way that Tim Duncan was. He elevates his teammates. Does anybody think that Durant has ever truly elevated his teammates?

Sure he got saddled with Russ but did he ever make him better? Impossible to do, right? Then he chose to sign up with that idiot Kyrie and Harden. Again, an impossible job, right? At some point, isn't it his job to make those guys better? Isn't that what all the greatest players have done from MJ to LeBron to Magic to Bird to Duncan?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's selfish or a bad teammate or anything like that. And all of this is probably unfair, hindsight, goal post moving. But unless he wins another ring his epitaph is going to read, "one of the coldest and most lethal offensive players of all time who coat tailed two rings on maybe the greatest team of all time, but for whatever reason was never great enough to be the focal point of a championship team." 

I think the bolded part is probably the main point in my mind. There's a vast difference between being individually great and being what you describe here. KD is individually great at an all-time level, but that's all he'll ever be. It's why LeBron's Heat worked and KD's Nets were never going to work.

I don't even think it needs to be ego-less, either, MJ has/had an absolutely titanic ego but he was still able to be the guy that was both great and capable of elevating his teammates, but he may be the outlier in that conversation. The other end of the spectrum are guys like Curry and Duncan like you mentioned.

[Blotto 24013]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I really can't believe we're still debating this all these years later. 

Was it a bitch move to go to GS? Yes. Was it the smartest move? Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

Does KD publicly acting like a spoiled, petulant butthurt child negatively contribute to his image and feed into the narrative? Yes. He brings so much of this shit on himself unnecessarily. 

Is he one of greatest all time? Yes. Does the Warriors winning another chip without him damage his legacy? Honestly, a little. Even if it's unfair, it's there. They won before him. They won with him. They won after him. The consistent thing is their winning, not him. All the talk this week is about Steph moving into the tier of the all time greats. If Durant had won this year with Brooklyn, the talk would be where he ranks among the all time greats.  So, if another guy is passing you on that hypothetical made up bullshit list, then your "legacy" is damaged. Sorry, somebody is going to be left without a chair when the music stops. 

I'm just going to add one more thing as it pertains to Curry... Basketball at its best and highest level is ego-less. It's all about the winning and nothing about caring who gets credit for it. Curry is ego-less and a leader the same way that Tim Duncan was. He elevates his teammates. Does anybody think that Durant has ever truly elevated his teammates?

Sure he got saddled with Russ but did he ever make him better? Impossible to do, right? Then he chose to sign up with that idiot Kyrie and Harden. Again, an impossible job, right? At some point, isn't it his job to make those guys better? Isn't that what all the greatest players have done from MJ to LeBron to Magic to Bird to Duncan?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's selfish or a bad teammate or anything like that. And all of this is probably unfair, hindsight, goal post moving. But unless he wins another ring his epitaph is going to read, "one of the coldest and most lethal offensive players of all time who coat tailed two rings on maybe the greatest team of all time, but for whatever reason was never great enough to be the focal point of a championship team." 

Agree with all of this. KD is an amazing basketball player, but he has his faults. In fact, he is so fucking skilled at basketball that I think it masks his deficiencies in some ways, because his basketball skill alone can get a team over so many humps. But I think he lacks in maturity, and I honestly don't know that his personality is wired to be the alpha leader on a team. In OKC he deferred to Westbrook, in GS he didn't have to be the defacto leader and that was still Steph's team, and his time in Brooklyn is off to a shaky start.

He has a couple of years to change that narrative in Brooklyn as it should be "his team." Admittedly its been a sub-optimal start with his own injury and the covid/kyrie fiasco, but lets see if he turns it around. With Kyrie and Simmons he has his work cut out, but he also has to share some of the blame for arriving at this roster. 

Skills wise, he's a slam-dunk top 10 all-timer, but if you're including intangibles like leadership into the picture, he starts sliding down the ranks. Doesn't make him a bad guy, just means he's not the complete deal. 

[Dutchrudder 11243]

19 hours ago, statsman said:

I can’t say I look at sports the way Vic does (if his team wins, he came up big. If his team loses, he choked), but I can see how it is easy on the brain to use that approach, rather than try to analyze whys and how’s. 

I don't know how anyone can look at that OKC-GS series and not say he AND Westbrook choked. I also think those 3 games are what ruined their relationship. There was a lot of visible frustration between them in those games and a lot more Hero-ball in the 4th quarters than usual.  I think they both wanted to be the team leader and that struggle broke the camel's back.  

So yeah, KD wanted a team that played less Hero-ball and shared the ball more; there's absolutely nothing wrong with that idea. Lots of teams could have done that, but the idea that the Warriors were the only team playing "team ball" that is laughably asinine. Like Kawhi doesn't pass the ball? CP3? Anyone on Boston? C'mon, there are plenty of places that could have been done, and if he was so adamant about playing that way, he could have helped lead his new team to that style. It's a cop out to say he wanted to play that way, it's just cover for tipping the scales in his favor in the worst kind of bullshit collusion we have seen since Lebron and friends took a paycut to join in Miami. It's shitty, it made the league boring and non-competitive for a few years, and no one should value those championships for either KD or the Warriors. 

[statsman 5693]

I don’t get the part about “acting like a petulant, spoiled child”, Mitch. Where is that from? That sounds like the kind of player that would try to get disliked teammates moved, disliked coaches fired, and who wouldn’t play hard when he decided his future wasn’t with a team anymore. Does any of that sound like KD? 
 

Or is that all about social media behavior? Because, if so, I need to break it to you- that’s not the real world. 
 

Dutchrudder, what does it mean to “choke”? Are you referring to all the shots that KD and Russ missed in games 5-6 of the series (and Russ missed in game 7, while KD was actually playing pretty well)? This goes back to the Vick Mackey method of non-analysis. OKC went 3-1 against a great offensive team by playing incredible offense and defense. KD (and Russ, to a lesser extent) played huge minutes in those games, working harder on defense than NBA players ever do in the RS. Dion Waiters was the only backup for Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook and Roberson (who was- ha-ha-ha-ha- the SHOOTING guard). 
 

After working so hard through four games, playing more minutes than anybody while never getting breaks on defense, do you think Durant had a crisis of character and “choked”? Or did he lose his legs and his jumper with it?

Side note- can the OKC fans stop obsessing over the 2016 WCF and the 2014 Memphis series like they are the most important and significant series of the last decade? Because they’re starting to sound like Russians talking about WWII. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by statsman

[SilasCoade 2622]

5 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Was it a bitch move to go to GS? Yes. Was it the smartest move? Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

...

Is he one of greatest all time? Yes. 

...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's selfish or a bad teammate or anything like that. And all of this is probably unfair, hindsight, goal post moving. But unless he wins another ring his epitaph is going to read, "one of the coldest and most lethal offensive players of all time who coat tailed two rings on maybe the greatest team of all time, but for whatever reason was never great enough to be the focal point of a championship team." 

I can agree with all that, but in the end, "Was it the smartest move?" is the only question that matters when discussing his free agency decision. The money was going to be equal (or very nearly depending on state tax rules and regional endorsement/investment opportunities). So the only questions were, "Can you win there?", "Can you enjoy playing with the team in place?", and "Can you enjoy living there 9 months out of the year or more?" Everything else is fans projecting their desires onto the decision. If anything I give KD even more credit for making the decision knowing that the media and Joe Moron were going to declare it bitch made. He said, "fuck y'all, I just want to hoop, have fun, and live my life." Respect.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18963]

4 hours ago, statsman said:

I don’t get the part about “acting like a petulant, spoiled child”, Mitch. Where is that from? That sounds like the kind of player that would try to get disliked teammates moved, disliked coaches fired, and who wouldn’t play hard when he decided his future wasn’t with a team anymore. Does any of that sound like KD? 
 

Or is that all about social media behavior? Because, if so, I need to break it to you- that’s not the real world. 

Social media and in the traditional media too. My only point about it was that his actions there don't help how he is perceived. And that's what we're talking about, right? The perception.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

12 hours ago, Llogg said:

I can agree with all that, but in the end, "Was it the smartest move?" is the only question that matters when discussing his free agency decision. The money was going to be equal (or very nearly depending on state tax rules and regional endorsement/investment opportunities). So the only questions were, "Can you win there?", "Can you enjoy playing with the team in place?", and "Can you enjoy living there 9 months out of the year or more?" Everything else is fans projecting their desires onto the decision. If anything I give KD even more credit for making the decision knowing that the media and Joe Moron were going to declare it bitch made. He said, "fuck y'all, I just want to hoop, have fun, and live my life." Respect.

But that’s the thing. He thought winning would ultimately get him that respect he was craving. He thought eventually people would look past the fact that he joined the greatest regular season team ever. It never happened. 

[statsman 5693]

I think it’s interesting that you claim he made the move because “he thought winning would ultimately get him that respect he was craving“. Do you think he was lacking in respect? He actually wrote out a list of reasons for the move- have you read it? Seems like a lot of projection. 
 

What I have learned from this thread- winning championships shows players are extra great. They didn’t “choke”. If they play well in successful championship runs, it’s because they were “putting the team on their back” and “willing them to victory “. If they play poorly in successful championship runs, it means they were “making their teammates better”. 
 

BTW- there actually is an NBA metric for “making teammates better”. It’s called “gravity” and Curry grades out incredibly high. KD grades out almost as high on it in GS and Brooklyn, less so at OKC, which makes me wonder if scheme plays a role…

I know I come across as a homer for Durant. That’s fine with me. I do have an actual criticism of his game- it seems to me that his handle, although good for a seven footer, is no where near as good as he thinks. He should reconsider driving the offense so much (kind of feels like he wants to play more like other elite SFs, and I don’t think he’ll ever be as great as he wants at it). 

Edited June 20, 2022 by statsman

[closetohumping 17811]

Colin:   KD is the only guy that could’ve beaten MJ 1x1

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6863]

Ah yes that fountain of great knowledge, Colin Cowherd.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20913]

Also Cowherd.  Greg Odin is a much better prospect than Kevin Durant. Some classic stuff here.

 

 

[Baboontyme 2883]

You left out the best part...

 

[Eskimohorn 5682]

Also Cowherd.  Greg Odin is a much better prospect than Kevin Durant. Some classic stuff here.

 
 

Like 28 out of 30 GMs agreed at the time. Overvaluing big men continues. I thought the same with Morant over Zion.

Regarding KD’s legacy, never saw this one before but funny as shit

[closetohumping 17811]

7 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Also Cowherd.  Greg Odin is a much better prospect than Kevin Durant. Some classic stuff here.

 

 

He did walk it back finally 

[shadow_operative 15932]

Draymond says that teams had started to figure them (GS) out, and that GS doesn't win the two middle titles without KD:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfXIMGgDhFE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Dutchrudder 11243]

2017 Cavs yeah, they probably lose that series with Lebron and Kyrie going off. 2018 Cavs were pretty garbage though, WCF winner beats them easily.

Not sure if GS beats Houston if they have Harrison Barnes in place of KD. Yeah, Iggy was injured for most of that series, but the dropoff between Barnes and KD is the size of the Grand Canyon. It's pretty weak to dismiss the one team that really gave you a 7 game fight during a stretch of dominance that nearly reached a dynasty level.

[Hate 20247]

Draymond says that teams had started to figure them (GS) out, and that GS doesn't win the two middle titles without KD:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfXIMGgDhFE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Right…9 teams figured them out during a 73-9 regular season.

[shadow_operative 15932]

10 minutes ago, Hate said:

Right…9 teams figured them out during a 73-9 regular season.

...and in the NBA Finals.

[Hate 20247]

...and in the NBA Finals.

Right, in a 7 game series where their 3rd best player was suspended for Game 6. Teams had them figured out.

Edit to add: that series was for the title. They won 3 other series to get there.

[CurlyDumps 4653]

Draymond is full of shit. He just won't admit to the unprecedented competitive advantage they had for those titles.

Steph Curry literally admitted in a press conference that they were SMILING in the huddle after KD went down. Does that sound like a squad that needed KD? lol.

Then he dismisses the 2017 Rockets as a team they didn't need KD to beat -- a team that had a better regular reason, was basically tied in offensive efficiency and slightly better defensively. It took a Chris Paul injury and a freak statistical anomaly to eek past them in 7 games. But right -  they didn't need KD for that series, but did need him for all the other teams.

"Listen to me! I'm the most reliable source for me!" NEW MEDIA YO.

[TonyTexas 10761]

 

[tx 3 putt 78676]

Toxic Drama Queen 

[hobbes2702 13469]

Not sure how he’s the toxic one in any way here.

[shadow_operative 15932]

hallelujah. his entire legacy depends on what he does in the next 3-4 years. he's damn near ruined his legacy (at least temporarily) with his horrendously stupid decision(s) to join up with Kyrie and Harden. if he never wins another MVP and:or title then he'll go down as a top ~15 player and arguably the best scorer ever (it's really just him and MJ). if he wins another MVP or title, he goes down as an all-time, top 10 greatest player ever. i'm rooting for him to get it done.

[shadow_operative 15932]

question: what are his possible destinations? i know nothing about where he can possibly go, but i'd love to see him join teams like Denver, Cleveland, Dallas, or Miami (good/ up and coming teams that haven't won recently), or someone like Milwaukee or Boston, teams that are *right there*, where he could be the missing piece to get them over the hump. 

[Dutchrudder 11243]

If he winds up on the Lakers in a trade for Westbrook, I'm gonna laugh real hard...

[TonyTexas 10761]

2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

question: what are his possible destinations? i know nothing about where he can possibly go, but i'd love to see him join teams like Denver, Cleveland, Dallas, or Miami (good/ up and coming teams that haven't won recently), or someone like Milwaukee or Boston, teams that are *right there*, where he could be the missing piece to get them over the hump. 

Phoenix is at the top of his list

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

Phoenix allegedly. 
That would be great. Don’t know what would be heading out- Ayton and picks maybe? 
he could/should win a title there. 

[tx 3 putt 78676]

2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

question: what are his possible destinations? i know nothing about where he can possibly go, but i'd love to see him join teams like Denver, Cleveland, Dallas, or Miami (good/ up and coming teams that haven't won recently), or someone like Milwaukee or Boston, teams that are *right there*, where he could be the missing piece to get them over the hump. 

Miami or phoenix 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

He picked the #1 seed teams from each conference.

[CurlyDumps 4653]

I guess Windhorst was onto something when he said on his podcast that the Kyrie/Brooklyn drama might not be over.