Multi-Country Africa Trip

[Orale 1087]

I'd like to spend around 6 to 8 weeks in the spring visiting 7 to 10 or so countries in Africa. The intent is to experience a diverse set of countries to get a fairly broad sense of the continent rather than repeating similar experiences in relatively similar countries (i.e., a bunch of safaris in multiple countries). Particularly appealing is geographic, scenic, and cultural diversity. 

I'm also not looking to get robbed or worse, so I'm avoiding the obviously dangerous countries. Here's a list of the countries I've seen suggested on myriad blogger sites. I really wanted to visit Egypt and Lebanon (the latter Middle East I know) on this trip, but I'm putting them off until things calm down in that particular region. Anyhow, I'd appreciate any thoughts on must-visit and/or should-avoid countries. The list is not in a particular order. 

1. Tanzania/Zanzibar
2. South Africa
3. Morocco
4. Zambia
5. Namibia
6. Botswana
7. Malawi
8. Rwanda
9. Kenya
10. Ghana
11. Gambia
12. Senegal
13. Tunisia
14. Sierra Leon
15. Madagascar 

[South Austin 52523]

Gonna take some time to do the things you never had?

[52-80 19207]

Given the infrastructure across that content, I don't know how you plan to meaningfully do that logistics wise, unless you're willing to put up with lots of headaches and terrible bus rides.

A friend spent a summer+ driving N-S.  Bought a late model SUV in South Africa and sold it Egypt for similar'ish price.  Except the along the way suffered a fair amount of troubles and repairs. 

"Obviously dangerous" is one thing, but some of those countries are super low hdi/income and still rough in other ways.  SIerra Leon...Madagascar..Senegal..

BTW I think he liked Namibia the most.  He's German and ended up connecting with and staying at lots of the german-christian missions from the legacy colonial era

[Ghost of LL 15539]

Ok--so I'm really very puzzled by this plan.

You want to spend 6-8 weeks in 7-10 countries?  And you think that is going to give you some sense of the continent?

What you're proposing is roughly one week in each country.  And actually less when you consider that each trip is going to be a full day's travel if you fly.  How much insight into a country's geography, scenery, and culture do you think you're going to get in one week?

I think you're underappreciating how big Africa is and how diverse it is.  People get fooled by the Mercator Projection, thinking it's like Europe and you can just bounce between tiny countries easily.  It's not.  

With eight weeks, you can see maybe one region of Africa.  You could do North Africa (Morocco & Tunisia), West Africa (Ghana, Guinea, Senegal, Sierra Leone), East Africa (Kenya & Tanzania), Lacustrine Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Malawi), or Southern Africa (South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia).  Don't fucking go to Madagascar, man.

Traveling overland is do-able from Zambia down to South Africa.  Not particularly desirable, but do-able.  But otherwise, it's really challenging and you're vastly better off flying.

I have no experience with West Africa, but can give some thoughts elsewhere.  

Oh, and for the record, I think a safari in South Africa and a safari in Kenya is plenty different.  But what are you interested in?  Are you in for the wildlife/safari deal?  In which case you want to hit up the Masai Mara in Kenya and the mountains of Uganda to see the gorillas?  Or are you more interested in the cities, in which case maybe you want to do Casablanca and Cape Town?  Or do you just want to see natural wonders, like Victoria Falls and the Skeleton Coast?

[Orale 1087]

That's all very fair. Thanks for the detailed response. I've only given it superficial thought and was likely naive in what could be accomplished in a fairly short time. To clarify, my intent was/is to travel by flight between countries, not overland, to the extent that is practical. As far as what I'd hope to see. It's a combination of cities (when warranted), natural wonders, and culturally significant sights. In any event, a lot more research is clearly in order. 

[52-80 19207]

19 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Given the infrastructure across that content, I don't know how you plan to meaningfully do that logistics wise, unless you're willing to put up with lots of headaches and terrible bus rides.

A friend spent a summer+ driving N-S.  Bought a late model SUV in South Africa and sold it Egypt for similar'ish price.  Except the along the way suffered a fair amount of troubles and repairs. 

"Obviously dangerous" is one thing, but some of those countries are super low hdi/income and still rough in other ways.  SIerra Leon...Madagascar..Senegal..

BTW I think he liked Namibia the most.  He's German and ended up connecting with and staying at lots of the german-christian missions from the legacy colonial era

checked his journals again and he roundtripped through the southern part of the content after reaching tanzania.  because who the hell would drive through sudan or somalia.

 

 

[Kennythetiger 9413]

13 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Ok--so I'm really very puzzled by this plan.

You want to spend 6-8 weeks in 7-10 countries?  And you think that is going to give you some sense of the continent?

What you're proposing is roughly one week in each country.  And actually less when you consider that each trip is going to be a full day's travel if you fly.  How much insight into a country's geography, scenery, and culture do you think you're going to get in one week?

I think you're underappreciating how big Africa is and how diverse it is.  People get fooled by the Mercator Projection, thinking it's like Europe and you can just bounce between tiny countries easily.  It's not.  

With eight weeks, you can see maybe one region of Africa.  You could do North Africa (Morocco & Tunisia), West Africa (Ghana, Guinea, Senegal, Sierra Leone), East Africa (Kenya & Tanzania), Lacustrine Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Malawi), or Southern Africa (South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia).  Don't fucking go to Madagascar, man.

Traveling overland is do-able from Zambia down to South Africa.  Not particularly desirable, but do-able.  But otherwise, it's really challenging and you're vastly better off flying.

I have no experience with West Africa, but can give some thoughts elsewhere.  

Oh, and for the record, I think a safari in South Africa and a safari in Kenya is plenty different.  But what are you interested in?  Are you in for the wildlife/safari deal?  In which case you want to hit up the Masai Mara in Kenya and the mountains of Uganda to see the gorillas?  Or are you more interested in the cities, in which case maybe you want to do Casablanca and Cape Town?  Or do you just want to see natural wonders, like Victoria Falls and the Skeleton Coast?

Jesus. That’s a big continent. 

[Kennythetiger 9413]

14 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Ok--so I'm really very puzzled by this plan.

People get fooled by the Mercator Projection

 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

5 hours ago, Orale said:

That's all very fair. Thanks for the detailed response. I've only given it superficial thought and was likely naive in what could be accomplished in a fairly short time. To clarify, my intent was/is to travel by flight between countries, not overland, to the extent that is practical. As far as what I'd hope to see. It's a combination of cities (when warranted), natural wonders, and culturally significant sights. In any event, a lot more research is clearly in order. 

In 2021, we did five days at the Masai Mara in Kenya, four days in Serengeti National Park in Tanzania, three days at Kilimanjaro, and then we flew down to Victoria Falls for four days and finished in Cape Town (which was cut short because of a covid lockdown).  

Let me tell you--that was a lot.  Traveling from Nairobi to Cape Town is akin to New York to Los Angeles.  But I have a lot of thoughts and recommendations if you want to go that route.

I also did Egypt back in 2008.  I'm not sure I would do it right now, with the war in Israel.  But I'm not sure I wouldn't.  It's not like there's every a real good time to do Egypt.  

I've stopped in Tunisia and Morocco on a cruise back in the mid-naughts, so my experience in those countries is pretty limited.  Morocco was really cool.  Tunisia has the ruins of Roman Carthage (they did a really good job of destroying Carthaginian Carthage--there's not much to see from before the Third Punic War).  But I'm not sure I'd go out of my way for that unless you're just a huge Roman history buff.

As to real highlights, I'd say the African selection of cities is somewhat lacking.  Cairo and Cape Town are pretty great.  Otherwise, . . . meh.  Natural wonders--Victoria Falls was amazing.  Kilimanjaro is somewhat disappointing in that the summit is typically in the clouds; but at the same time it's easy to go up.  On the safari end, I'd do the Masai Mara over Serengeti.  On the cultural front, if you're at a safari lodge, they'll always offer a trek over to a nearby village, which is pretty interesting.

So anyway--I'm happy to answer any questions you have as you get to a more refined thought on an itinerary.  

Also, I would strongly recommend a travel agent.  Africa is the only place I'd use a travel agent, but I think there it's almost essential.  I have a good recommendation if you get down to needing one.

[conVINCEd 21469]

Southern Africa is the easiest.  Eastern Africa is probably what people have in mind when they think of going to “Africa”.  I can’t speak about the rest of the continent,other than I wanted to add Cairo to our trip and it would’ve been a massive pain in the ass.  Travel between regions is difficult and time consuming.  Personally, I would rent a Landcruiser in South Africa and wing it.  Maybe do that for a month and hit up Egypt and Morocco on the way in or out.  I know a couple of people who had a very good experience with this company.

https://bushlore.com

[tx 3 putt 77245]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

Southern Africa is the easiest.  Eastern Africa is probably what people have in mind when they think of going to “Africa”.  I can’t speak about the rest of the continent,other than I wanted to add Cairo to our trip and it would’ve been a massive pain in the ass.  Travel between regions is difficult and time consuming.  Personally, I would rent a Landcruiser in South Africa and wing it.  Maybe do that for a month and hit up Egypt and Morocco on the way in or out.  I know a couple of people who had a very good experience with this company.

https://bushlore.com

a friend just did a Southern Africa trip vacation, traveling around the region was a huge cluster. pretty much none of the travel plans went as expected 

[next2naus 439]

Have you looked into this place?

[Incredulity 11679]

15 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Have you looked into this place?

If theres one thing Queens has a lot of its common parts.

 

Yes, Yes, FUCK YOU TOO!!!

[conVINCEd 21469]

44 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

a friend just did a Southern Africa trip vacation, traveling around the region was a huge cluster. pretty much none of the travel plans went as expected 

I haven’t been post-Covid.  When I said easy, I meant that there are cheap commercial flights readily available to get you near the places most people want to go.  We used a travel agent and they handled all the ground transportation.  Everything went as planned.  You are on airplanes that carry 50 passengers as opposed to 6.  Real concrete runways. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19130]

Morrocco and Tunisia are on my list.  I could see spending 2 weeks in each of those easy.

South Africa has also long been on my list as well.  

I went to Egypt last year, and I loved it.  But given the shit going down with Israel and Palestine, I will stay far away from that region for now.

[Gladeite 375]

 My trips are limited to Tanzania, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Namibia.  

Are you going by yourself? It is a big place.  Economies are fragile.  Get a travel agent experienced in Africa.  They will give you good advice.

I typically stay on large private ranches outside the park system.   My wife did not care for it and has no interest in returning.  

[Ghost of LL 15539]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

a friend just did a Southern Africa trip vacation, traveling around the region was a huge cluster. pretty much none of the travel plans went as expected 

Yeah--we had that experience.  We were supposed to fly from Kilimanjaro, Tanzania, to Livingston, Zambia, on Kenya Airways.  But when we got to the airport, we just waited while a very confused-looking ticket-counter agent typed on the computer.  Eventually she figured out that the airline had moved the Wednesday flight from Nairobi to Livingston to Tuesday, which is to say that we had missed our connecting flight by around 24 hours.  And let's just say that customer service is generally not a strength when it comes to African transportation companies.  Her suggestion was to wait three days for the next flight; that seemed like a reasonable outcome to her.

This is where having a good travel agent is pretty critical.  We called the travel agent, who was in Cape Town, and she worked out a connection out of Nairobi to Lusaka, where we then had a six-hour layover until catching a puddle-jumper to Livingstone.  By the way, the bar at the old terminal at Lusaka is great--the beers are $0.75, as I recall.

[tx 3 putt 77245]

A friend and his son went two weeks for a safari experience. They only focused on Southern Africa and the game reserves. They hired a full time guide / security. Their trip looked amazing but they could easily pay for every flex, continence, and perk. Hell of a trip 

Edited November 2, 2023 by tx 3 putt

[Firemans4Horn 18118]

I spent two weeks in Tanzania and one week in South Africa in summer 2010. South Africa we were based in Pretoria and went to a bunch of World Cup games in that region. Not in a hurry to go back other than check out Cape Town. It’s a lot more manageable of a country if you have a local to take you around (and keep you from getting robbed). 
 

Tanzania is amazing. We climbed Kilimanjaro and did a 4 day Serengeti safari. I found the people to be very welcoming and the scenery was unbeatable.  Happy to recommend our tour group (local Tanzanian group not based in UK/US so much better pricing) if you want. 
 

I also spent time in Egypt but as said multiple times in this thread don’t go anywhere near there right now. 

[Ghost of LL 15539]

By the way, @Orale, what's the budget we're talking about here?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

If you make it to Senegal, you should check out the village of Kayar. It's just up the coast North of Dakar. It's a fishing village full of brightly painted boats that they push out every morning to fish in. Something you won't likely see I'm the rest of the continent.

I think they have a hotel or two there. It is worth the trip if you hit up Dakar. There were a few backpackers staying there when I was there and surfing, but this was back in 2006.

[TexasHooch 5122]

I've only spent time in Kenya and Uganda.  Both were awesome in their own way but if I had to recommend one of the two for their respective major cities I'd say Nairobi over Kampala.  I'll echo that getting around is not easy- even by air.  My experience with the 3 I flew out of was not good- think Denver airport during a blizzard in the middle of a baggage handlers' strike.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

If your gonna tour Africa and spend some time in Kenya, you should take up a tour of Kibera. It's the largest slum in the continent. You really can't get a sense of Africa without seeing what makes it Africa.

Edited November 5, 2023 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[TexasHooch 5122]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If your gonna tour Africa and spend some time in Kenya, you should take up a tour of Kibera. It's the largest slum in the continent. You really can't get a sense of Africa without seeing what makes it Africa.

Yeah, that was something else, though not nearly as disturbing as the the two orphan children we happened upon living in a literal mud hut in the rural Rakai District on the border of Uganda and Tanzania. 

I do think it's important to allow yourself to experience both the beauty and despair.  Go to Karen and have some delicious coffee, but then spend some time in Kibera (with a local guide).

[Orale 1087]

Thanks for all the input. After thinking about it more and realizing the challenges involved in traveling the continent, I'm changing my plans to something like three countries in the southeastern part of the continent. South Africa, perhaps Kenya, and another country TBD. I'll also be doing India and Nepal on this trip as well, so I'm going to scale back my ambition wrt Africa. I'll attach Morocco to a future Spain trip. Thanks to those who recommended a travel agent. I will for sure be using one.    

On 11/3/2023 at 9:21 AM, Ghost of LL said:

By the way, @Orale, what's the budget we're talking about here?

Not sure. I don't need luxury, but I like to stay in safe (usually touristy or expat) areas. I'm pricing out flights at the moment to get a sense of costs. 

[tomahawk dunk 339]

I went this year to Cape Town for about 3 weeks. Stayed with an Afrikaans friend and it was like having my own tour guide. We did the Garden Route and traveled it for almost 2 weeks. Then hit the wineries east of CT.

I really enjoyed it as I had never been to Africa before. Scenery, food and wine were all great. Dollar is strong and you really got a lot bang for your buck.

I'd like to go back to SA and see Namibia as well. The South Africans I talked with all spoke highly of Namibia.

[sidis 9832]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:11 AM, Kennythetiger said:

 

africa is big.