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What is the point of prayer

Patricio Swayze

By Patricio Swayze
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'stache

'stache 21805

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4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm curious how the folks who have moved on from organized religion are explaining religion and God to their children when they get to the 8-18 range. It's a conundrum I'm going to start to have to work through here in a few years. Particularly since my kid goes to a private religious school (mom works there, school is fucking outstanding). I have zero interest in taking him to church and teaching dogma, but I'm somewhat concerned with the potential for the whole "My Dad says God doesn't exist" conflicts with other kids that I feel like is inevitable.

Hoo boy, this is probably going to be a derail. Sorry in advance. 

I'm struggling with this and my 11 year old. I ask her from time to time if people ask her about church and she says it doesn't really come up. Way different than when my family moved to Oklahoma in my teens. I was asked a bunch if I had been "saved" or if I had a "personal relationship with Christ." I was raised Mexican Catholic, I had no idea what they were saying. I'm currently studying up on the Bible itself because I'm fascinated with its effects on western society. I honestly never dug into the stories, it was just the guy in the robe droning on Sunday mornings while I tried to stay awake. The stories are weird, fascinating, and likely driven by explaining some real events, but the specifics of what to draw from the stories is bizarre in how people believe it literally to the extent it causes wars, hostilities, etc. I think I'll approach it that way with my kids. Learn the stories and their effect on society. I doubt they'll want to go religious but if that's their choice, fine by me, as long as they don't go with the hateful nature of some of the most religious people.

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Hefeweizen

Hefeweizen 5311

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First and last series post on this.  Mainly people who pray and believe in a god are ones who need to do so.  I’m perfectly fine not knowing what will happen once I’m worm food, or what caused the Big Bang, or why my son got cancer at age 5.  I know a lot of my friends prayed for him.  I also know that even if it didn’t change anything I appreciated it, deeply.  
 

But I despise organized religion, especially the prosperity gospel scam artists.  And churches should pay tax on their property and income, period.

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Foosters

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5 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm curious how the folks who have moved on from organized religion are explaining religion and God to their children when they get to the 8-18 range. It's a conundrum I'm going to start to have to work through here in a few years. Particularly since my kid goes to a private religious school (mom works there, school is fucking outstanding). I have zero interest in taking him to church and teaching dogma, but I'm somewhat concerned with the potential for the whole "My Dad says God doesn't exist" conflicts with other kids that I feel like is inevitable.

Hoo boy, this is probably going to be a derail. Sorry in advance. 

I'm dealing with the same. Second grader at a private, Catholic school. I tell her people can believe different things, and that's totally cool. She's never asked me point blank if I believe in God, but heaven/the afterlife came up the other day and we had a pretty open discussion about it. In a way that (I hope) did not leave her with existential dread. We talk about faith and belief vs science (not that one's better than the other, just that they are different.) I've given her examples from history in which blind faith led to incorrect conclusions (e.g. Galileo and the heliocentric theory) but I don't try to push her one way or another. She proudly tells us that she's Catholic, and we say "right on." My hope is that she is well informed enough to eventually make her own decisions. I don't bash religion or American Christianity in front of her the same way that I do on here or with my peers. 

There was the one time I couldn't hold back when my daughter came home talking about Noah's ark and I asked her why God killed everyone on earth because he didn't like their attitude. Wife didn't appreciate that line of questioning. Which is fair.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30218

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13 hours ago, Foosters said:

There was the one time I couldn't hold back when my daughter came home talking about Noah's ark and I asked her why God killed everyone on earth because he didn't like their attitude. Wife didn't appreciate that line of questioning. Which is fair.

Take my solid advice and don’t discuss 2 Kings 2:23-25 with her…

 
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Take my solid advice and don’t discuss 2 Kings 2:23-25 with her…

 

 

Quote

 

2 Kings 2:23-25 KJV

And he went up from thence unto Beth-el: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

 

wow 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13511

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Not to start a political discussion but relaying an observation. I had a JV high school coach that made us pray together before basketball games. Decades ago. At least 75% of the team were heathens who never attended any church. Me included. The coach always wanted one player to kick off the prayer. Talk about being nervous about having zero clue what to say that would satisfy the coach.

it was nice bring moved to the varsity team where the coach was less godly. He threw in a quick comment that hopefully no one got hurt followed by an amen that he didn’t care if anyone repeated or not.  Thats all I got on prayer for my long life.

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SydneyCarton

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

This is interesting and all schools are different, but when we applied to our private religious school, we  the parents, had to supply a few references and attest/affirm that we believe in the general mission statements and statement of faith as part of the interview and testing process. Did you guys not do that?

Generally, from what I understand from others, there will be a polite rejection of enrolling your kid if the stance is “Dad doesn’t believe in God”, because that causes problems and disruptions in the culture and classroom (allegedly). Something along the line of “thank you but we don’t think this would be a great fit for your family and kid but we respect your beliefs etc etc”

Also as the kids get older there is an annual “reaffirmation” that you believe in XYZ as people change.

So if your school isn’t as rigorous as all that then I think you can politely stay on the fringes as the dad and let your kid take advantage of the great education (you mention it’s academic rankings and reputation is great), or otherwise I guess you just lie and keep it low-key and hope your kid doesn’t act out in countercultural (in relation to the school’s culture) ways. Just don’t be too vocal about things that the school disagrees with or do anything attention seeking which I know is hard sometimes if your kid is a non-believer teenager with a rebellious streak.

From what I’ve seen, the reality is that a lot of parents put their kids in these schools to get their kids away from kids with parents who aren’t practicing faith and modeling it in their home so that’s why there could be pushback as they wouldn’t appreciate a “bad apple” so to speak (from their perspective, not saying a kid is a bad Apple) and push the administration to investigate and do something.

We didn’t have to do that’s but my wife is an employee and that’s why we’re there. Might have been different rules for us in that regard. But I haven’t heard of that kind of interview at all for anyone, either. It’s…yeah it’s a very religious school. 

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Bookman

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I grew up very religious. When I was in my early 30's, I realized that either God doesn't hear my prayers or he or she doesn't give a shit. Of course, God could also be powerless as well.

I don't understand how people are still religious when they get older. We all have to grow up some time.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6163

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I find that singing church songs for me is kind of a form of prayer. I decide to do that today at home instead of going to the park and I am glad I did. I have definitely taken a very circuitous route to be where I am at with God and prayer. I feel most comfortable in church when the congregation is lacking in white people. My college experiences (Went to a small Christian university because I wanted to bash my head in again and play football) with white people like me left that impression on me. I have sang in two choirs at black churches, one in South Dallas and another in The Bronx. It was a blessing and honor to do it both times. I go to a service on Sunday evenings in Queens where the entire congregation is Brazilian and the service is in Portuguese. I speak slightly more Portuguese than a newborn, but I told them to stop giving me a translator and I’ll listen so I can learn the language. The road less traveled has been a constant companion throughout my life and I embrace that.
 

I feel like I have had a fascinating journey in life even when I didn’t realize it or have the pieces all in place to get an understanding of why life always felt so different for me from others I knew. Plenty of heartbreak, things not going as planned and doubts about the future, but I have found that in looking back all of that prepared me for where I am and where I will hopefully go in life. To me prayer is an important part, but again I pray for the things I said before, one of which is not money. If you choose to also pray, cool. If need to pray five times a day that’s cool. If you don’t pray at all that’s just fine in my book. If you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, great. Many of you who have posted are not religious and that’s also cool. I am not going to bash you for your choice or demean you. Just so long as you are not hurting other people I’m good with you.

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Woodrow Call

Woodrow Call 494

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Prayer is a meditative experience for me. I don't believe there's some old male deity listening to me. But it's time for me to be quiet, to repeat the names of people that are important to me and my hopes for them. It's a time for me to silently reflect on my own weaknesses and how I can improve as a human. 

I quit believing in monotheistic gods a long time ago, but I eventually went back to a church for community. I was impressed by how many poor, hungry people they were feeing (and helping with healthcare and housing) and didn't see any atheists stepping up to the plate doing the same thing. 

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MillerEP

MillerEP 30455

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Praying is a form of meditation and free therapy. When you do praying in a community setting I suppose you’re putting your intentions out there in the world. If there is a God or if we’re living in a simulation where ritual makes reality then we are manifesting our own reality. When you do it alone ritually it’s a meditative exercise, especially if it’s the rosary, Our father, or even the “now I lay me down to sleep” prayer. If it’s a routine you do it’s no different than other mindfulness exercises. Repetition is calming, and can be a signal to your brain. If you’re doing non-standard ritual prayer, like something adhoc then you’re having an inner monologue with somebody (whether real or not). So you’re expressing your fears, wants, thankfulness, and problems, and working through your issues with somebody you feel is a loving friend who presumably wants the best for you (if you’re religious).
Here’s an article that talks about the physical benefits:

https://www.nbcnews.com/better/amp/ncna812376

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Sgt Hulk

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On 11/2/2023 at 3:34 PM, jdhorn92 said:

 I won't speak for all people,  but for me Prayer has several meanings.  I don't think you will like my answer, mainly b/c its hard to articulate a response to "why do people pray?" or "if everyone is praying, why is there so much bad in the world". 

Spiritually speaking,  accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior means  entering in to a relationship.  Not like one with my spouse or drinking buddies or anyone in this community, but a relationship deeper than anything we could touch or describe.  I'm not a religions scholar and though I can describe in words many things, I find when I write about my Faith or Prayer or the Bible, I'm often at a loss for words. Ive always been reluctant to speak about my Faith with others, as I am far from perfect.

Prayer is a form of communication with God.  He listens but the answers aren't always what we want, when  or how we want them.  We Pray because it's an outlet, its a form of dialogue;  its a display of our appreciation for all the gifts and blessings we have a result of God sending his son to die on the cross for our sins.  In  the New Testament, we come to learn of a New Covenant with God.  We thought we were getting a King with a sword, what we didn't have planned out is for a King (savior) who would wear a much different crown. 
 

Prayer can be  asking for forgiveness, giving thanks, requesting guidance....its a noun and a verb at the same time.  I cant speak for your neighbor, but I presume she's Praying for you to come to peace with your decision to move.  She likely values you as a neighbor and doesn't necessarily want you to leave , but alas you will make your own mind up about that. Her Praying you don't leave is, imo, her asking God to help her come to terms with whatever  decision you make.

That probably a big nothing burger what i typed there, but on some level you may be wanting to be convinced of why prayer is a thing and I cant answer that for you.  Only you can answer that.  I cant sell you on the power of Prayer or why people do it....its not really a black and white topic easily answered, at least by this heathen. lol

Thank you for this 

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19450

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A point for another thread, but let's just take it easy on Satan.  He's like the 37th most mentioned person in the bible.  We kinda over-inflated his significance 1000x fold, over the centuries because we needed a heel for our steel cage match.  The dude is like Leslie Jones from SNL, surrounded by much more significant personas and we just sorta insisted upon him to look like we knew what the fuck we were doing even though he was a talentless afterthought.  

Again, praying for one's self is a powerful tool to draw subconscious energies into a cohesive direction.  Praying to keep Satan away is literally about the dumbest fucking thing we've come up with, and we came up with Paris Hilton and Texas A&M.  

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safe sex

safe sex 11711

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"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?" - Mark Twain

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YGIFS

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Because 1,900 years ago...they needed a Fall(en) Guy and hadn't yet invented Groomers or Drag Queens so he had to take the hit.  I mean, sure...Satan was an asshole...but he was like a troubled addict.  He had like 6 or 7 shitty relapses and he hurt some people but he did cry out for help.  Meanwhile, Adonai laid waste dozens of times to first born sons, entire tribes, whole bands, vast kingdoms, and one time like a whole fucking planet.  And he did it sober.  

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YGIFS

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After 2000 years, even the Catholic church has dialed back the focus on Satan.  It's not the marketing draw he used to be.  There is evil in the world, but even old-school Christians are like, "He's just this tertiary character that isn't that compelling.  Like, is he supposed to be a more flawed version of us, an angel's fall from grace, or just the embodiment of humanity's darkside as amalgam?  I mean, pick a theme and go with it, we've certainly had enough time.  We can't just go back and rewrite the whole thing to make it Satan v. God."

It's almost like shouting at the Lord, "Gretchen, stop trying to make 'Satan'happen." /meangods

But holy shit with you fucking Baptists and Evangelicals trying to elevate the Devil based off like 3 paragraphs.  It's like watching a prequel movie with a mentally challenged person trying to find easter eggs where there aren't any.  

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5080

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I pray. I don't really pray much for God to intercede in matters on my behalf (except for safety of family and friends, selfishly). But for understanding of the things in this world that I have no control over.

Also, for those that are so condescending about anyone that is a believer is ignorant of science. I am always trying to punch holes in my faith, I have found that it accomplishes just the opposite, it makes my faith stronger. I love watching debates, two of the really great scientific believers are Frank Turek, and John Lennox, an Oxford mathematician. For those of you that have made up your mind that there is no God, fair enough. But for those of you that are on the fence, these scientists make some compelling arguments. I invite you down the rabbit hole. Please remember the headers are from a biased commentator, I usually fast forward through his narrative. 

CHIEF

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YGIFS

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Yeah, that's another interesting sub-debate I suppose.  Intercessional prayer versus personal prayer.  On the face of it, it seems like intercessional, degreed separation prayers of altruistic motivation are a higher calling (the unborn, those enduring famine, those in war-torn places, et. al.).  But I would contend they're beyond worthless because they not only do they not do anything at all...they cause the person praying to think they've done what they can and leave material, tangible actions stuck on the tarmac.  Whereas, praying (in a personal kind of summoning kinda way) for one's self or their immediate circle of influence can seem selfish, even greedy. But as we've discussed, I think this is the 'stylings' that has actual physical effects in the world in which we find ourselves.  But calling out to God, we are literally activating chemical reactions in our brains and bodies to focus more efforts onto health, challenges, better behaviors, etc.  

My limit is basically, "Wife, my wonderful daughters...I prayed last night and this morning that would have a wonderful day of abc, xyz..."  And that gives them a little lift which releases chemicals in their bodies that have a good net effect.  But beyond that, it's just signaling.  Somebody taking a fucking ship to India to tell some people dying of disease from dirty water, "Some people in a $30mm church in Austin are praying for you."  That's sophomoric.  Send money or supplies, asking me to join a prayer circle is a waste of everyone's hour.  Even now, telling somebody over the phone to tell somebody else in their life that we're praying for them is futility defined.  Hold somebody in your arms or by the hand and say you are thinking and praying for them...and science shows it helps their body's internal mechanisms.  Beyond that, it's just another mythology dressed up as a 501c3.

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Brisketexan

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To follow on Chief's post above, my (current) thinking is that the connection between science and the divine is impossible to untangle.  I sure as shit see a lot of what humans call divine action etc. having been an explanation for things that defied explanation at one time or another.

E.g., rain fell because the gods were angry, or happy, depending on how you felt about rain at that moment.  Eclipses were divine action, etc.  We now know that yeah, those are just functions of physics and astronomy.

But it's where the more abstract stuff comes into play that I have found fascinating.  For example, the description of God as everywhere, in everything - God is simultaneously connected to me and what I do here, and to someone else on the other side of the world.  Or the other side of the universe.  We are all tied together through God.  So....enter quantum entanglement, and the connection of subatomic particles separated by billions of miles.

But the thing is, we didn't even know or observe those things (quantum entanglement) when the concept of an omnipresent God entered our consciousness.  It's as if somehow, internally, we knew of the nature of the universe.  We had an explanation for things we hadn't even encountered.  The laws of the universe, and how it operates, are "divine" in the broad sense, including but not limited to the theistic sense.  I dunno.  I find that profound, and beautiful.  Is that where "God" lives?  I don't know.  But it seems there's room for God in there.  What that makes God, well....I'm pretty sure that remains beyond us, like probably 90% of the laws of the universe.  As a species, will we one day reach a point where we can genuinely grasp the answer?  Beats me.  I'll live and die here, a hairless ape full of wonder.  So be it.

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CHIEF

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Good post Brisket. I will reiterate that when I tell someone that I am praying for them, many times I am not praying for a devine miracle, although I would happily accept it. I am praying that God give them peace and comfort to be able to accept their fate, or to give them strength for the ongoing battle to in their fight against a disease, grief of loss, or their bad circumstances.

It is my belief that I have eternal life through God's son, Jesus Christ. Sent to this world to give us that hope through faith. I will not have an eternal life starting after death. I am living my eternal life presently. In my carbon based life, presently, I am merely a caterpillar waiting to emerge from my cocoon. I am also a very live and let live type of person. I have a strong belief in separation of Church and State. I left my last prayer group over it getting too political. The bible says that the World will become more immoral and depraved, the evangelical movement to stop it from happening, as they see fit is just tilting at windmills.

CHIEF

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BonzoMontreaux

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On 11/3/2023 at 2:33 PM, Hefeweizen said:

First and last series post on this.  Mainly people who pray and believe in a god are ones who need to do so.  I’m perfectly fine not knowing what will happen once I’m worm food, or what caused the Big Bang, or why my son got cancer at age 5.  I know a lot of my friends prayed for him.  I also know that even if it didn’t change anything I appreciated it, deeply.  
 

But I despise organized religion, especially the prosperity gospel scam artists.  And churches should pay tax on their property and income, period.

I tell folks that faith is beautiful thing, religion... not so much. 

 

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Brisketexan

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1 minute ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I tell folks that faith is beautiful thing, religion... not so much. 

 

Well...yes and no.

The horrors of organized religion are easy to catalog, many have been mentioned here, no need to belabor the point.

BUT....faith (and our lives in general) are meant to be lived and practiced in community with others. We are called to be in community -- by our biology, by our man-made social orders, and yep, by most faiths.  Having your own personal faith, without living that faith out in a community, is a half-measure.  But it's obviously an endeavor with risks (see my sentence/paragraph above).  The risks are worth taking, just be aware of them and proceed accordingly.  E.g., if your faith community ends up emphasizing judging or acting against others....maybe it's more about the people and their biases than it is about any real faith. 

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BonzoMontreaux

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16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well...yes and no.

The horrors of organized religion are easy to catalog, many have been mentioned here, no need to belabor the point.

BUT....faith (and our lives in general) are meant to be lived and practiced in community with others. We are called to be in community -- by our biology, by our man-made social orders, and yep, by most faiths.  Having your own personal faith, without living that faith out in a community, is a half-measure.  But it's obviously an endeavor with risks (see my sentence/paragraph above).  The risks are worth taking, just be aware of them and proceed accordingly.  E.g., if your faith community ends up emphasizing judging or acting against others....maybe it's more about the people and their biases than it is about any real faith. 

Preaching to the ex choir, praise team, and worship band member.    I agree 100%,

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BearSchlong

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Paywalled

Sorry about that-

Here it is:

Matthew Perry said that he wanted to be remembered as someone who helped people get sober, even more than he wanted to be remembered as a very funny, famous Friend. I think he’ll be remembered as both.

I know that I will always think of him that way. We met almost 40 years ago, and he was, by far, the funniest friend I ever had. He also was the person who helped me get sober.

He took me to my first A.A. meeting, in 2005. Matthew quit booze a few years before. He struggled with it, for sure. I didn’t need rehab, but I knew I had a very serious problem, so I called Matthew and asked him to take me to a meeting.

We went to this very big gathering in Brentwood, Calif. We walked in, and I swear it seemed there were a thousand people in there. He knew the look on my face — daunted. Beyond daunted: demoralized. It’s very hard to imagine how going into a room like that is somehow going to make you want to stop drinking or make you feel better. And he looked at me and said in his Matthew, half-joking, very loving way: “It’s something, isn’t it? God is a bunch of drunks together in a room.”

At the time, I didn’t know what he meant. I’ve since learned. He meant that as bad as we feel, as low as we go, we tend to feel we’re alone in it, whether our problem is alcoholism, a bad marriage, illness, depression, strife. We feel that we are the only one who has ever gone through it; in recovery we call it terminal uniqueness.

And it’s by going into a room with a few or a lot of other people and sharing, saying out loud what it is that’s upsetting us and hearing that from others that we feel, well, maybe we’re not alone. In fact, in time, what we become sure of is that the most unfortunate, terrible things we face are actually our greatest strength, as they connect us with others.

And so all that seemingly pointless suffering has a tremendous point.

He was telling me I needed the support of those people in the room. I needed their stories. I needed to lean on them. I needed to tell them, “I don’t think I can make it through the day without drinking.” And hear them say, “We didn’t, either.”

Matthew told me that, too. And, boy, Matthew was a living example. I saw close up how hard he would hit the bottle and pills. And I felt like, “Well, gosh, if he can stop, maybe I can.”

In his memoir, Matthew called addiction “the big terrible thing.” He also thought of alcoholism as a bully. Cunning, baffling and powerful — too powerful to take on alone. But if you have a bunch of guys with you, you can beat up the bully or at least make it a fair fight, one day at a time.

God is a bunch of drunks together in a room.

We talk a lot about a higher power in A.A. Everyone gets to define God as he or she defines God. It can be anything you want. My sponsor would say, “I don’t believe in some sky daddy.” That’s the way he put it. Like Matthew, he’d say his higher power was the wisdom of the group. He’d say, “I believe in the power of people being honest about how they’re struggling, connecting with each other and in loving each other.”

In A.A., I heard stories that were worse than mine — way worse. And yet these people were smiling and calm and connected and happy. I wanted that.

God was a bunch of drunks together in a room. I think of that phrase every single day.

I loved Matthew, and I leaned on him a lot in my early sobriety. I was lucky that Matthew was my guy because humor is a huge part of recovery. And he was a hilarious, hilarious man. As funny as he was on “Friends” — and he was — he was breathtakingly, hysterically unbelievable to be with in person. In any situation, he’d just start finding what was funny about it, beat it into the ground until it wasn’t funny anymore, take that as a challenge and then find a way to bring it back so that it was not just funny but riotous. Then it would get not funny again, and his attempts to make it so would border on annoying, until he’d somehow unlock it a third time and reduce you to tears of helpless glee. Many times I had to beg him to stop because it was physically painful to laugh that hard for that long.

Every time — and I do mean every time — we went to a McDonald’s drive-through, he would ask the person on the other side of the speaker, “Do you know what Grimace is?” After getting a “no,” he would offer, “I think it’s a purple shake that has no cup.” There was usually a pause followed by a very confused, “May I take your order, sir?”

Whenever we went into a public restroom together, I’d beg him — I’d say, “Please don’t do it, Matthew.” He’d say, “OK.” Then he would proceed to go into a stall and start making little high-pitched straining “ow” noises, that would build into a crescendo of a man full-volume screeching as if he were giving birth to whatever was coming out of him in there.

In recovery you know you’re getting better when you’re able to laugh at the things that before were so serious and shameful you didn’t think they could ever be repeated to anybody else, let alone laughed about. In fact, Step 5 in the program is you admit to God — there’s that word again — and to yourself and another human being the exact nature of your wrongs. Matthew and I did that for each other. We were able to say who we really were. A lot of times we did it through humor.

I was used to laughing with him over — I don’t want to say shallow things, but as the previous examples indicate, they were not exactly weighty, recovery-related items, either. What I was surprised by was the depths that he could go to in his profound understanding of human nature and human flaws — his own flaws and those of others. It gave him a lot of compassion for other people. Tragically, I think he had a lot more compassion for me and for everybody else than he did for himself.

He helped so many people; they got so much out of the fact that he was willing to be honest with them and loving toward them and share with them what he went through. As he ended up doing in his book.

Even writing this piece, talking this way about him, is an example of his legacy: the one that he preferred, about recovery. There’s a tradition in the program that you’re not supposed to speak at the public level about this stuff, and there are good reasons for it. But I have found over the years — and partly it was Matthew’s book that convinced me of this — that speaking publicly about addiction and A.A. does more good than harm. Because I think it’s really valuable for people to hear that folks like Matthew can struggle and that they can find help. And there’s no shame in asking for that help. There’s no shame in feeling that bad. And there’s no shame in getting help for feeling that bad.

I was unfortunate to have needed his help — or fortunate, depending on how you want to look at it. And certainly fortunate to have received that help and friendship directly from him. I was also a huge fan of his and felt the friendship that we all feel through “Friends.” I consider myself blessed that I got to experience both.

And I do want to say that if you go into recovery, while there will only ever be one of the real thing for me, you will find your own Matthew Perry. You’ll find someone to laugh with and connect with. You’ll find someone who understands your story. You’ll find someone who seems to care about you more than about him- or herself. I think Matthew would want folks to know that more than anything.
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Not that Bob

Not that Bob 735

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"...what does prayer accomplish? For one thing, if we have learned to listen while we pray, we can be reminded of things we would probably not be thinking of otherwise. Prayer can remind us to be grateful. Prayers of thanks for the food we eat remind us not to take it for granted. They serve not only to remind us of people going hungry, but of the miracle that occurs when seeds and soil, rain and sun combine to produce our daily sustenance. They remind us of the chain of people involved in producing, processing, packaging and distributing the food that ends up on our tables...Without these prescribed blessings, it might not occur to me to be grateful for all of those things. I might have to wait until I encountered a blind man or a cripple, and then my gratitude would be mixed with a large dose of pity...Gratitude does not come naturally to most people."

Rabbi Harold Kushner

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Not that Bob

Not that Bob 735

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On 11/9/2023 at 7:58 AM, El Tri said:

are you saying satan is more powerful than god? thought he was all-powerful?

I happen to believe that God is "all powerful", but that does not mean that God controls our behavior. God has given us many examples and "suggestions" as to what behaviors will be best, for ourselves and for all others. However, God does not force us to follow those suggestions. If we were forced, God would be nothing but a slave driver, a bully making us do what He wants rather than what we want. God, if He forced us into behavior, would essentially be a rapist. God is not a rapist. We are instructed, but we are allowed to follow our own path. God wants us to follow the right path (the path of righteousness), but He will not force us to take that path. God wants willing followers, not slaves. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15290

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3 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

I happen to believe that God is "all powerful", but that does not mean that God controls our behavior. God has given us many examples and "suggestions" as to what behaviors will be best, for ourselves and for all others. However, God does not force us to follow those suggestions. If we were forced, God would be nothing but a slave driver, a bully making us do what He wants rather than what we want. God, if He forced us into behavior, would essentially be a rapist. God is not a rapist. We are instructed, but we are allowed to follow our own path. God wants us to follow the right path (the path of righteousness), but He will not force us to take that path. God wants willing followers, not slaves. 

Free will - this is the point

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Helobious

Helobious 9448

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5 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

I happen to believe that God is "all powerful", but that does not mean that God controls our behavior. 

But then he knows exactly what it would take to convince each person on earth of his existence, or to convince them to follow a righteous path. Why make that barrier so low for some and high for others? 

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