Shogun

[SpiralOut 1813]

Wonderful show.  

Toranaga is fucking ruthless.  Letting his home-boy go out like that just to push the narrative.  Letting Mariko go into the lion's den knowing he's most likely never going to see her again.  

[Speedtrucker 2071]

One who is a Samurai must before all things keep constantly in mind, by day and by night...

the fact that he is going to die.

As to the tapping, I took it as timing of the assault waves. Between the first wave to cleanse the protectors and then the next to move in and capture/kidnap Mariko.

I’m assuming capture to prevent both her seppuku and her return to Toranaga. This removing Ishido’s “holding everyone hostage” and letting the new found boldness to leave.

I haven’t read the book or watched the 1980s show. I believe Mariko is Lady Gracia whose suicide fueled the fall of Osaka and rise of the Edo period.

Dang I really love this show.

Now I want to go rewatch the Hunted

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

50 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

One who is a Samurai must before all things keep constantly in mind, by day and by night...

the fact that he is going to die.
 

  Hide contents

As to the tapping, I took it as timing of the assault waves. Between the first wave to cleanse the protectors and then the next to move in and capture/kidnap Mariko.

I’m assuming capture to prevent both her seppuku and her return to Toranaga. This removing Ishido’s “holding everyone hostage” and letting the new found boldness to leave.

I haven’t read the book or watched the 1980s show. I believe Mariko is Lady Gracia whose suicide fueled the fall of Osaka and rise of the Edo period.

Dang I really love this show.
 

Now I want to go rewatch the Hunted

Spoiler

Correct - the mission was to capture, not kill, Mariko, which is why she wouldn't try to escape.

Mariko is definitely patterned after Lady Gracia.  I am new to all of this, but official podcast said it and said almost all main characters in the book are based on someone from that period of Japan.  

 

[Rex Kramer 1333]

20 hours ago, F250 said:

The Yabushige character is very perplexing. Throughout the entire series my views of him keep changing. He fluctuates between a total dick, bad ass, goofball, traitorous, a fun cool dude, but remains very likeable the entire time no matter what he does.

The kind of guy you want to party with but he's likely to leave you with the bill and then have you jumped in the parking lot afterwards.

He’s my favorite character if only for his stereotypical Asian grunts. It’s as if he’s trying to play Long Duck Dong. 

[Rex Kramer 1333]

14 hours ago, F250 said:

I did not know until now that there was a Wayne's World 2.

 

[hookem2010 2623]

That episode kicked ass. I really spoiled myself watching it and the final 2 episodes of Fargo S5 in a 24 hour span.

[hayden_horn 11362]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:55 PM, F250 said:

The Yabushige character is very perplexing. Throughout the entire series my views of him keep changing. He fluctuates between a total dick, bad ass, goofball, traitorous, a fun cool dude, but remains very likeable the entire time no matter what he does.

The kind of guy you want to party with but he's likely to leave you with the bill and then have you jumped in the parking lot afterwards.

and yet he calls you up next friday night and you don't even think before you say "yeah see you at 11"

[naija 2854]

Anna Sawai should, at the very least, be nominated for some awards.

The secrecy and veil of ninja have multiplied with time, when in fact you can visit the two provinces in Japan, where their history is said to originate from. As for them being entirely disgraceful, I don't know. Covert is a better description and it would be the manner in which they were used that would be disgraceful or not.  Hattori Hanzo, is after all, considered to be one of the more well known Shinobi.

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Anna Sawai should, at the very least, be nominated for some awards.
The secrecy and veil of ninja have multiplied with time, when in fact you can visit the two provinces in Japan, where their history is said to originate from. As for them being entirely disgraceful, I don't know. Covert is a better description and it would be the manner in which they were used that would be disgraceful or not.  Hattori Hanzo, is after all, considered to be one of the more well known Shinobi.

My understanding was that Oni no Hanzo was a distinguished Samurai serving Tokugawa Ieyasu directly.

And would engage in guerilla warfare and covert attacks leading ninjas on these raids. .

But my understanding is far from fully knowledgeable

[Speedtrucker 2071]

Also separate question, how many of yall that like this show have seen Scorsese’s movie Silence?

I just learned of it this weekend and wonder if it’s any good and worth a watch if the wife and I love Shogun…

[Post Oak 20208]

When Mariko was addressing Ichido and Ochiba surrounded by all the lords I told my wife there's only one badass in that room. 

Such fantastic acting and writing.

[Michael Knight 12976]

17 minutes ago, Speedtrucker said:

Also separate question, how many of yall that like this show have seen Scorsese’s movie Silence?

I just learned of it this weekend and wonder if it’s any good and worth a watch if the wife and I love Shogun…

It is a good but not enjoyable movie

[HornOnTheBayou 8908]

4 hours ago, Speedtrucker said:

Also separate question, how many of yall that like this show have seen Scorsese’s movie Silence?

I just learned of it this weekend and wonder if it’s any good and worth a watch if the wife and I love Shogun…

Haven't seen the movie, but the book is incredible. But I worry that the movie would lean too heavy into the "torture porn" part of the story and not focus on the philosophical/religious aspects which make the book so good.

[Buzzrock 14902]

Dig this show. But man the ads suck.

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

Dig this show. But man the ads suck.

Ad free Hulu is worth it. 

[tbone_ 14110]

4k version on yttv doesn’t have ads

[WBT 20561]

When the assassins broke in and Mariko-sama said that they were shinobi...

Spoiler

Was I the only one?

[Biff Tannen 45665]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

When the assassins broke in and Mariko-sama said that they were shinobi...

  Hide contents

Was I the only one?

You were not the only one. 

[LCHorn 2615]

10 hours ago, naija said:

Anna Sawai should, at the very least, be nominated for some awards.

She is amazing.  I had read that the show-runners upgraded the role of the female characters from the book and I’ve been waiting to see it.  
 

This episode was her showcase and she killed.  

8 hours ago, Speedtrucker said:

Also separate question, how many of yall that like this show have seen Scorsese’s movie Silence?

I really liked it (it’s not a pleasant watch so hard to love), but more importantly I think about it fairly often.  Think of it like Scorcese’s Schindler’s List-it’s meaningful, certain parts of it will capture you forever, but you won’t be doing a rewatch for fun during the holidays.  

[Zepol87 9185]

3 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Dig this show. But man the ads suck.

I watched the dubbed version last night and had no ads fyi 

[LCHorn 2615]

4 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Haven't seen the movie, but the book is incredible. But I worry that the movie would lean too heavy into the "torture porn" part of the story and not focus on the philosophical/religious aspects which make the book so good.

I think that’s deliberate-the book goes to great pains at explaining the Japanese belief in THIS life as one part of a cycle and that death is not permanent.  
 

The show, by contrast, stays in Blackthorne’s perspective by treating life and death in the Western perspective, i.e., when you die you to heaven or you do not, but either way your time is her is done. 

[52-80 19147]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:17 PM, Mac8111 said:

I assumed he was in on the attack if he is killing guards and not getting killed by ninjas, but why run off with the targets? 

Mac explained this years ago

 

[Buzzrock 14902]

Ad free Hulu is worth it. 

I already pay for so much shit. Can’t justify the upgrade for one show.

4k version on yttv doesn’t have ads

Along the same lines I dumped 4K, just wasn’t enough content for the price.

[kingkoopa6 8345]

11 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I already pay for so much shit. Can’t justify the upgrade for one show.



Along the same lines I dumped 4K, just wasn’t enough content for the price.

 

Bundle 

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:21 PM, Buzzrock said:

Dig this show. But man the ads suck.

The four-minute commercial breaks are wicked. Each episode should be 1 hour and 30 minutes of real action, then they can do the other 30 minutes for commercials.

[kingkoopa6 8345]

10 gonna be a 10

[kingkoopa6 8345]

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2822]

The anjin is such a dork.

[LCHorn 2615]

28 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

The anjin is such a dork.

I’ve disgreed with the thread commenters saying this in the first couple of episodes, but in hindsight I was wrong.  Mariko is 100% badass and I have no idea what she sees in Blackthorne.  
 

Probably the biggest weak spot in an otherwise excellent adaptation.  

[HornOnTheBayou 8908]

Couldn't decide if this should go here or in the Champions League thread.

Edited April 20 by HornOnTheBayou

[Post Oak 20208]

24 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Couldn't decide if this should go here or in the Champions League thread.

That is fantastic.  

[Buzzrock 14902]

Finally caught up only to have one episode to go, argh. It’s fantastic though. Cosmo is channeling Tom Hardy with a dash of Russell Crowe. The women are G’s, and Toranaga is playing some 3D chess.

The one I don’t see mentioned much in the thread is Yabushige. The actor is doing a fantastic job of portraying the backstabbing worm.

Didn’t expect the Mariko Hodor but knew there was no happy ending here.

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

Mariko.

Spoiler

The Edo to Osaka love in between Mairko and Anjin being omitted from the show is unfortunate. It’s a beautiful, peaceful part of the book. They could have knocked it out in 1 episode, but budget I’m sure. They were essentially husband and wife during the journey…but Mariko warned him again and again, when they reached Osaka it was over. 
 

Her Christian conversion was never satisfactorily explained in the book or show to me. Book: not much. Show: she’s sad and alone and wants something to hold on to. Maybe Toranaga ordered it? He orders Naga to convert in a year in the book. She’s 1000% Japanese and samurai. She never seems conflicted to me. I think the show did a better job of projecting her intentions. Ochiaba essentially says she’s samauri first and she’ll do her duty to Toranaga. She takes her last rites in the book well before the ninja attack from the Portuguese priests, so I think she believes in something. Long story short, she knows she’s going to die in Osaka and there is no other destiny for her. 
 

Loyalty to one’s father is a fascinating element of both the book and show. It drives every important decision in Mariko’s life. 

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2822]

7 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I’ve disgreed with the thread commenters saying this in the first couple of episodes, but in hindsight I was wrong.  Mariko is 100% badass and I have no idea what she sees in Blackthorne.  
 

Probably the biggest weak spot in an otherwise excellent adaptation.  

No as a dork, I like that he's a dork.  I am convinced that these Japanese are asian nerds, and not cool asians.

[speed817 19255]

WTF.... two straight episodes without my girl Fuji-sama??? SMH... 

 

 

[speed817 19255]

On 4/17/2024 at 1:02 PM, Rex Kramer said:

He’s my favorite character if only for his stereotypical Asian grunts. It’s as if he’s trying to play Long Duck Dong. 

He's the spitting image of the Pikachu shocked face meme...

[52-80 19147]

20 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

No as a dork, I like that he's a dork.  I am convinced that these Japanese are asian nerds, and not cool asians.

 

reflecting on the older episodes i find it a bit fiction-implausible for nagakado to have killed nebara jozen. even given his immaturity and desire to prove himself to daddy, theres so much understood ritual, customs, and rules, that it should be strongly out of character to have done such a thing. (trying to merk his traitorous uncle, on the cusp of war, is entirely another thing)

[kingkoopa6 8345]

GAME TIME BABY

[F250 28764]

Spoiler

Toranaga may have won and established the Edo period but Tom Cruise will have the last laugh when he visits the Japans and teams up with Ken Watanabe.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

Outstanding season.

Spoiler

That said, I wish they had a GOT budget. They cut many scenes from the book that would have been awesome to see on film. 
 

I think an additional episode for the Edo to Osaka love in and an additional episode for the Osaka attack aftermath/Mariko’s funeral would have been appropriate. So 12 episodes instead of 10. 
 

The showrunners took the cheaper and more subtle approach. There is beauty in subtly. I think they nailed that. 

 

[hookem2010 2623]

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Outstanding season.

  Hide contents

That said, I wish they had a GOT budget. They cut many scenes from the book that would have been awesome to see on film. 
 

I think an additional episode for the Edo to Osaka love in and an additional episode for the Osaka attack aftermath/Mariko’s funeral would have been appropriate. So 12 episodes instead of 10. 
 

The showrunners took the cheaper and more subtle approach. There is beauty in subtly. I think they nailed that. 

 

Spoiler

For a show that hinted at so much action with Crimson Sky, it was still incredibly satisfying and felt completely despite being almost entirely dialogue-driven.

Also, Yabu's death poem 🤣

 

[hookem2010 2623]

Spoiler

And Yabu's glance back at Toranage after slicing his belly, and getting the look from him that "yea this is all so I can become shogun" was perfect. 

 

[gsoda3 3245]

i liked it*.  i prefer this ending to the book.  cosmo jarvis nailed it. 

 

Spoiler

except for the dream sequence where he's with his grandkids.  i don't get what they were going for.  

 

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

15 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

i liked it*.  i prefer this ending to the book.  cosmo jarvis nailed it. 

 

  Hide contents

except for the dream sequence where he's with his grandkids.  i don't get what they were going for.  

 

A dream within a dream. 

[kingkoopa6 8345]

That fade to black song hit the feels 

[kingkoopa6 8345]

A nun. What a waste of prime trim. 
 

[kingkoopa6 8345]

That one hommie who could speak english/ Portuguese sneaky. 
 

Now I gotta rewatch whole show and see him being sneaky 

[Rex Kramer 1333]

2 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

A nun. What a waste of prime trim. 
 

I forgot about the season finale. Excited for tonight. Waste of Prime Trim would be a great metal band name. 

[billfromlaketravis 11447]

3 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

A nun. What a waste of prime trim. 
 

Spoiler

Better outcome than the book. Toranaga grants her permission to commit suicide. I believe she jumps off a cliff.

She talks pretty bluntly to the boss. She explains she will always be in love with her husband and nothing will ever change that. 
 

She’s much more attractive on the show than in the book. A bad ass in both. 

 

[The Dude 1244]

Great show. Enjoyed every minute