London

[RamjetFDO 10575]

That's similar to saying New York *is* America.

It's an important tourist stop, but not the end-all English experience by any stretch of the imagination.

[G650 14256]

54 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

That's similar to saying New York *is* America.

 

No, it's not even in the same galaxy as saying that, is my point. London is almost 20% of the entire population of England, and it accounts for 25%(!!!) of the U.K. GDP. It's GDP is greater than Saudi Arabia. It's higher on the GFCI than New York, in a country that is almost 7 times smaller. It has the seat of government (which runs the whole country basically, there aren't local governments the way we have them), the center of population, the center of the economy and center of the culture. There just is no analog in our country to conceptualize what an all encompassing dominant force London is in the U.K.

54 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

It's an important tourist stop

 

 

Man, being a tourist stop is like 1,689 on the list of what London is. That's basically an afterthought. And to be honest, I think your perspective as a tourist is probably why you don't think of London as what it is. As a tourist place it's just another stop.

 

54 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

 but not the end-all English experience by any stretch of the imagination.

 

As a tourist, no, it's not the be all, and I listed other wonderful things to see just upthread. As it's importance in England, yes. As I said, London IS England.

 

This is a great BBC article on how London dominates culturally, economically, and politically.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-248d9ac7-9784-4769-936a-8d3b435857a8

Edited April 23, 2018 by G650

[RamjetFDO 10575]

....

[G650 14256]

1 hour ago, RamjetFDO said:

....

The funny part is, I'm usually into the whole brevity thing.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

Sorry, but 650 is right. London:England. Paris:France. Seoul:South Korea.

Not to say that there aren’t other things to see in those countries. But it is to say that those countries are dominated by their capitals in a way that world-city capitals in a way as to make the rest of the countries an afterthought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Txzen 498]

I don't disagree that London and Paris are cities which in many ways completely embody the international perception of what the country is. But saying London is England or Paris is France is just silly. You can't understand either country if you limit yourself to those capitals. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

I saw Remains Of The Day. The whole thing. I had seen enough of England after that.

[Spankytoes 1739]

11 hours ago, Txzen said:

I don't disagree that London and Paris are cities which in many ways completely embody the international perception of what the country is. But saying London is England or Paris is France is just silly. You can't understand either country if you limit yourself to those capitals. 

Sure you can. What more is there to “understand”? 

[G650 14256]

10 hours ago, Txzen said:

I don't disagree that London and Paris are cities which in many ways completely embody the international perception of what the country is. But saying London is England or Paris is France is just silly. You can't understand either country if you limit yourself to those capitals. 

Nobody is saying they "embody the international perception of the country", they dominate the country in every facet. And honestly, Paris is way less of a dominant force in France than London is in England. There really is no comparison anywhere else.

The only counterpoint, since we are in a travel subforum, is that as a tourist, it's less relevant, because one is just trying to see shit, and there is great stuff to see all over, and you can have fun anywhere, which negates the all encompassing oppression of London. But as a resident, and how the country is defined, London is England. Period. Which puts Manchester's panties in a wad, but that is another story entirely.

I mean, my family home still stands outside Darlington, close to Durham, I have more reason than anyone to decry people making things to London centric, but it is what it is. Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, all the historic nodes of England are fucking gone. Your only hope is Birmingham's resurgence takes flight if you want a multi-pole England. If you want to understand the country, you need to understand it's history (which I'm not sure a lot of people with strong opinions on this do), which leads to the present. But you have to understand the reality of now as well.

There's plenty of irrelevant parts to the U.S. too. Understanding modern Kansas has literally zero impact on understanding the modern U.S. Historically? Yes, super important. Now? Not so much. If you are a Kansan, you are basically irrelevant culturally, economically etc... I'm sure anyone from Kansas reading this is mad, and think I'm an ass or whatever, but it's the truth, and it's absolutely no reflection on a person's worth, just the cold reality of what drives modern countries. The difference in the U.S. to say the U.K. is we have New York, Washington D.C., L.A., Chicago etc... that keep balance so there is no mega-coalescing like you see in smaller countries.

[skipperj 377]

Haha fuck Kansas.

[G650 14256]

That's what I'm talking about

[SimonBolivar 10958]

8 hours ago, G650 said:

Nobody is saying they "embody the international perception of the country", they dominate the country in every facet. And honestly, Paris is way less of a dominant force in France than London is in England. There really is no comparison anywhere else.

The only counterpoint, since we are in a travel subforum, is that as a tourist, it's less relevant, because one is just trying to see shit, and there is great stuff to see all over, and you can have fun anywhere, which negates the all encompassing oppression of London. But as a resident, and how the country is defined, London is England. Period. Which puts Manchester's panties in a wad, but that is another story entirely.

I mean, my family home still stands outside Darlington, close to Durham, I have more reason than anyone to decry people making things to London centric, but it is what it is. Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, all the historic nodes of England are fucking gone. Your only hope is Birmingham's resurgence takes flight if you want a multi-pole England. If you want to understand the country, you need to understand it's history (which I'm not sure a lot of people with strong opinions on this do), which leads to the present. But you have to understand the reality of now as well.

There's plenty of irrelevant parts to the U.S. too. Understanding modern Kansas has literally zero impact on understanding the modern U.S. Historically? Yes, super important. Now? Not so much. If you are a Kansan, you are basically irrelevant culturally, economically etc... I'm sure anyone from Kansas reading this is mad, and think I'm an ass or whatever, but it's the truth, and it's absolutely no reflection on a person's worth, just the cold reality of what drives modern countries. The difference in the U.S. to say the U.K. is we have New York, Washington D.C., L.A., Chicago etc... that keep balance so there is no mega-coalescing like you see in smaller countries.

You act as if Blackpool doesn't even exist.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

9 hours ago, G650 said:

Nobody is saying they "embody the international perception of the country", they dominate the country in every facet. And honestly, Paris is way less of a dominant force in France than London is in England. There really is no comparison anywhere else.

The only counterpoint, since we are in a travel subforum, is that as a tourist, it's less relevant, because one is just trying to see shit, and there is great stuff to see all over, and you can have fun anywhere, which negates the all encompassing oppression of London. But as a resident, and how the country is defined, London is England. Period. Which puts Manchester's panties in a wad, but that is another story entirely.

I mean, my family home still stands outside Darlington, close to Durham, I have more reason than anyone to decry people making things to London centric, but it is what it is. Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, all the historic nodes of England are fucking gone. Your only hope is Birmingham's resurgence takes flight if you want a multi-pole England. If you want to understand the country, you need to understand it's history (which I'm not sure a lot of people with strong opinions on this do), which leads to the present. But you have to understand the reality of now as well.

There's plenty of irrelevant parts to the U.S. too. Understanding modern Kansas has literally zero impact on understanding the modern U.S. Historically? Yes, super important. Now? Not so much. If you are a Kansan, you are basically irrelevant culturally, economically etc... I'm sure anyone from Kansas reading this is mad, and think I'm an ass or whatever, but it's the truth, and it's absolutely no reflection on a person's worth, just the cold reality of what drives modern countries. The difference in the U.S. to say the U.K. is we have New York, Washington D.C., L.A., Chicago etc... that keep balance so there is no mega-coalescing like you see in smaller countries.

 

100% agreed with your initial point (London "is 1000% more" England than NYC "is" America) but now you are just talking out of your ass. (not from Kansas)

[G650 14256]

59 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

You act as if Blackpool doesn't even exist.

I mean what's more legitimate than a League 1 footy side.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

8 minutes ago, G650 said:

I mean what's more legitimate than a League 1 footy side.

That's former EPL Tangerines to you.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

[Txzen 498]

On 4/25/2018 at 5:00 AM, Spankytoes said:

Sure you can. What more is there to “understand”? 

Just goes to show you can travel all over the world and still not get it.

[G650 14256]

Sure does 

[Thiefery 4995]

love this thread, taking off next month for ten days.. flying into London,  then taking the train to Salisbury..  I'll try and remember this trip better than my first one in 2004 when I was drunk the whole time.

 

writing down all these recommendations.

[honolulu horn 6158]

I'm headed to London / Great Britain this summer with the family on our way to and from South Africa. We'll cruise around Great Britain for about 2 weeks on the way over and will be in London for a few days on the way back. Any advice regarding stuff to do with kids would be great. We'll probably focus on tourist attractions since it's the family's first time there, but any lesser-known spots or insider stuff would be cool. We're staying in Mayfair. I've been to London a couple of time for brief stops and loved it, even just walking around Soho and other random areas with no particular destination in mind, but I'm sure there are a few places that I should've stopped at but didn't know any better. GF Trumper for example sounds fantastic. Any other insider info is welcomed.

[kevwun 15788]

I don't know how much your kids will like it, but the tour of Parliament is amazing.  The guide we had was incredibly knowledgeable and did a great job.  That was probably the best tour I've ever been on.  It was also the cheapest of all the ones we went on.

The Royal Mews was also really cool and it won't be crowded because it's not very well known.  I learned about it from Shaggy and it is also worth checking out.

Edited April 29, 2018 by kevwun

[G650 14256]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:03 AM, honolulu horn said:

I'm headed to London / Great Britain this summer with the family on our way to and from South Africa. We'll cruise around Great Britain for about 2 weeks on the way over and will be in London for a few days on the way back. Any advice regarding stuff to do with kids would be great. We'll probably focus on tourist attractions since it's the family's first time there, but any lesser-known spots or insider stuff would be cool. We're staying in Mayfair. I've been to London a couple of time for brief stops and loved it, even just walking around Soho and other random areas with no particular destination in mind, but I'm sure there are a few places that I should've stopped at but didn't know any better. GF Trumper for example sounds fantastic. Any other insider info is welcomed.

Good choice on Mayfair, it's my spiritual homeland. Where are you staying?

 

You are pretty central to about everything there. Unfortunately, there is a ton of work going on the Elizabeth Tower (Big Ben), so it will probably be totally clad in scaffold, which is a bummer. I think Westminster Abbey is a must for the kids, along with the Tower, even though these are the usual reccy's.

Alternatively, you can walk through Shepherd Market and show them the red lights in the hooker's windows.

[kevwun 15788]

Big Ben was entirely covered in scaffolding except for one clock face when we were there a couple of weeks ago.  There is so much scaffolding that you can't even see through it to see any of the tower.

[G650 14256]

Still is, and work isn't scheduled for completion until 2021.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

Yeah--that's a bummer for the first trip for the kids.

Mine are taking their first trip in October.  We've definitely got to see the Royal Mews.  Depending on what your kids like, the London Transport Museum and the Imperial War Museum may be great picks for them.  Both have big things to see (e.g., buses, tanks) that don't require just a whole lot of adult knowledge.

[G650 14256]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--that's a bummer for the first trip for the kids.

Mine are taking their first trip in October.  We've definitely got to see the Royal Mews.  Depending on what your kids like, the London Transport Museum and the Imperial War Museum may be great picks for them.  Both have big things to see (e.g., buses, tanks) that don't require just a whole lot of adult knowledge.

 

I had a good laugh on this past trip. We were passing through Horse Guards on our way to some where or other, and a couple tourists asked one of the event workers if the Churchill War Rooms were this way (they were). Said worker says "No, over there" (wrong way). Guys amble off, only to return past us a few minutes later in the correct direction. If only I had been a little closer I would have said to them that this guy is a tit and he has no idea wtf he is talking about. I would have had to yell though, and I wasn't feeling it. On the plus side, the London Marathon was the following day, and all the roads were blocked off around St. James Park, so you could just wander down the middle of the road aimlessly.

 

[honolulu horn 6158]

Thanks for the info -- looking forward to returning to London with the kids.

[G650 14256]

10 hours ago, honolulu horn said:

Thanks for the info -- looking forward to returning to London with the kids.

Not sure what ages the kids are, but you may want to check out Temple Church. Actual Templars buried there with effigies, pretty low traffic spot too, unlike a lot of other places. 

[RiceOwl 74]

One thing about the Imperial War Museum:

I actually thought the WW1 exhibits were better than the WW2.

[Armybrat 40845]

We'll be in London for the last week in July (airbnb with a Brit couple). Have London Passes for the tourist highlight spots, and would like to see the site of the Republic of Texas "embassy" offices (just a plaque on a wall). War Museum & Churchill's War Rooms underground are on my list as is Hampton Court, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's, the Templar Church, and a Thames River cruise. Mrs. Brat & the lady friend want to visit Harrrod's, so any pub recs where I can park my butt?

The Brit friends are encouraging us to walk round in a park or two. Is that worthwhile?

Edited May 1, 2018 by Armybrat

[G650 14256]

Parks are great, I do recommend that.

The issue around Harrod's is Knightsbridge is basically Little Arabia these days, and there are a shit load of coffee shops now in place of the pubs. So if you want a good pub I'd stay closer to central London. What part of town is your airbnb?

[Armybrat 40845]

A 3 bedroom row house in Shepherd's Bush - about a mile & a half west of Kensington Palace.

Brit friend will be driving us around in his SUV - he can park it in most of the Catholic Church premises  anywhere in London (a business perk of his).

We'll be there a week, then drive to Portsmouth via Salisbury to ride the hydrofoil to Normandy. Staying 2 nights in a small hotel a few blocks from Omaha Beach.

After doing some of the D-Day things, we'll head over to Chartres so Mrs. Brat can gawk at the cathedral before driving down to Brit friend's rustic French farmstead in the Chaillac area. we'll spend several days there soaking up the French aggy countryside before driving straight up to Paris where I have a 3 bedroom flat (6th floor with a lift) booked in the Rue Passy area (supposedly a nice view of the Eiffel Tower). We'll hit the usual tourist highlights including a day at Versailles, and I'll have the friend take my pic in a couple of spots were my dad was pictured on VE Day.

After Paris we will drive up to take the "Chunnel" or a ferry to Dover & head into Canterbury where we have rooms booked at the Gatehouse Hotel (1 night) so more cathedral gawking. From there we are driving up to Perton, a suburb of Wolverhampton to stay at the Brit Friend's house for a few days before heading back down to the hotel by Heathrow for the return flight to Austin. We have the round trip non-stop booked with British Air. Coach "premium", I think - just 2 seats by a window with extra leg room.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Armybrat

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

If the women go to Harrod's (and Harvey Nick's), then you can go to the Churchill Arms.  It is a really cool pub, and sort of in the area.  

 

[kevwun 15788]

8 hours ago, RiceOwl said:

One thing about the Imperial War Museum:

I actually thought the WW1 exhibits were better than the WW2.

I though the Holocaust exhibit was the best part.  I was a little disappointed in the museum overall though.  I thought it would have more stuff.  The British Museum and Churchill War Rooms were excellent.

[RiceOwl 74]

4 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I though the Holocaust exhibit was the best part.  I was a little disappointed in the museum overall though.  I thought it would have more stuff.  The British Museum and Churchill War Rooms were excellent.

Yeah, the Holocaust part was good too. 

 

Agreed on Churchill War Rooms... Really feels like you’re “in” history. 

 

The British Museum certainly has world-class artifacts, but I’d recommend to go in with a plan. I only had about 3 hours there, and I felt like I spent too much time wandering aimlessly. 

[kevwun 15788]

The day we went to the British Museum we had no other plans so we could take our time.  Agreed it is a ton to take in.  I would definitely set aside at least 4 or 5 hours.

[G650 14256]

11 hours ago, Armybrat said:

A 3 bedroom row house in Shepherd's Bush - about a mile & a half west of Kensington Palace.

Brit friend will be driving us around in his SUV - he can park it in most of the Catholic Church premises  anywhere in London (a business perk of his).

We'll be there a week, then drive to Portsmouth via Salisbury to ride the hydrofoil to Normandy. Staying 2 nights in a small hotel a few blocks from Omaha Beach.

After doing some of the D-Day things, we'll head over to Chartres so Mrs. Brat can gawk at the cathedral before driving down to Brit friend's rustic French farmstead in the Chaillac area. we'll spend several days there soaking up the French aggy countryside before driving straight up to Paris where I have a 3 bedroom flat (6th floor with a lift) booked in the Rue Passy area (supposedly a nice view of the Eiffel Tower). We'll hit the usual tourist highlights including a day at Versailles, and I'll have the friend take my pic in a couple of spots were my dad was pictured on VE Day.

After Paris we will drive up to take the "Chunnel" or a ferry to Dover & head into Canterbury where we have rooms booked at the Gatehouse Hotel (1 night) so more cathedral gawking. From there we are driving up to Perton, a suburb of Wolverhampton to stay at the Brit Friend's house for a few days before heading back down to the hotel by Heathrow for the return flight to Austin. We have the round trip non-stop booked with British Air. Coach "premium", I think - just 2 seats by a window with extra leg room.

 

That sounds like a good excursion. BA's premium economy is actually a step up, unlike the American carriers. Almost what old business class used to be, or a domestic first seat here.

 

If you are mobile, I'd get away from Knightsbridge while they shop. It's not very British anymore, and there is a distinct lack of booze. I saw three pubs being converted to coffee shops last week. Shepherd Market is right up the road, and is like a medieval square. There's several pubs, and you may catch a royal or celebrity while you are there. There's also the Polish-Mexican restaurant.

Somewhat related, I learned from my driver this trip, who was driving some Kuwati princess a couple weeks ago, that like 70% of Kuwati women are obese now, because they eat cake and drink coffee all day every day.

[Spankytoes 1739]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

 

That sounds like a good excursion. BA's premium economy is actually a step up, unlike the American carriers. Almost what old business class used to be, or a domestic first seat here.

 

If you are mobile, I'd get away from Knightsbridge while they shop. It's not very British anymore, and there is a distinct lack of booze. I saw three pubs being converted to coffee shops last week. Shepherd Market is right up the road, and is like a medieval square. There's several pubs, and you may catch a royal or celebrity while you are there. There's also the Polish-Mexican restaurant.

Somewhat related, I learned from my driver this trip, who was driving some Kuwati princess a couple weeks ago, that like 70% of Kuwati women are obese now, because they eat cake and drink coffee all day every day.

This is the truth. Back in '98, when I was a resident of the area, I'd go to work at the Texas Lone Star Saloon, head to Stanhope Arms for a pint and end the night with a pizza from Hart's the Grocer for 50p. Maybe grab a movie at Blockbuster on the way home from the arcade. Now those are office buildings, Starbucks and Tesco surrounded by Halal Fish & Chips shops. There was only 1 pub on Gloucester Road all the way to Hyde Park last July and it was shite.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Spankytoes

[thunderlounge 7832]

8 hours ago, G650 said:

That sounds like a good excursion. BA's premium economy is actually a step up, unlike the American carriers. Almost what old business class used to be, or a domestic first seat here.

 

AA’s caught up. Only 3 77W’s left to refit (should be completed before Memorial

Day, abead of schedule), 13 772’s (the 45J zodiac config ones, as they are matching the B/E ones at 37J and adding PE), and some 788’s. The remaining 772’s/788’s are supposed to be done by the end of the year.  Guess busy season caught up, so they pushed the last few back. All the 37J B/E 772’s are done.

 

[G650 14256]

2 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

 

AA’s caught up. Only 3 77W’s left to refit (should be completed before Memorial

Day, abead of schedule), 13 772’s (the 45J zodiac config ones, as they are matching the B/E ones at 37J and adding PE), and some 788’s. The remaining 772’s/788’s are supposed to be done by the end of the year.  Guess busy season caught up, so they pushed the last few back. All the 37J B/E 772’s are done.

 

I'll take BA's seat over AA any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But then again, since shit bird Doug Parker took over AA, basically I hope the whole company dies in a fire.

[kevwun 15788]

Finally went through all my pics. This is what Big Ben looks like now.





You can get a lot closer to Stonehenge than I thought.


This tower raven once bit my sister.


Bath is stunning. I understand why is a world heritage site now.


The Gold State Coach that is used for the Coronation.  It was finished in 1762.


Churchill’s velvet pajamas.

Edited May 4, 2018 by kevwun

[Thiefery 4995]

As far as money goes, do you use your credit card or is it better for me to get cash and exchange it here prior to leaving?  My only concern in this is walking around with 4k/pounds

[G650 14256]

1 minute ago, Thiefery said:

As far as money goes, do you use your credit card or is it better for me to get cash and exchange it here prior to leaving?  My only concern in this is walking around with 4k/pounds

Everywhere takes card for the most part, so I usually juat have one or two hundo in pounds for walking around money.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

On 4/18/2018 at 12:10 PM, Spankytoes said:

I used to live on Cornwall Gardens back in the day, so I've stayed in the area a few times for nostalgia recently. There's nothing that I would go out of my way for in the area. Plenty of cheap eats around, including Nando's across the way from the Gloucester tube. 

If you want something a bit different with a theme, great cocktails and good food, try out Evans and Peel: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d3477816-Reviews-Evans_Peel_Detective_Agency-London_England.html

It's a fun evening and about a 10 minute walk. Get the smoked cheesecake. You'll need a reservation, which means that you have to makeup a case file for the "interview" to get in.

Did the tourist trap Fortnum & Mason my last business and was pleasantly surprised at how good it was. The Coronation Chicken sandwiches + the clotted cream/biscuits/jam are worth the price of admission. (As is the rabbit confeit)

Damnit. Ate at that nandos last summer and now I’m craving it.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

On 5/1/2018 at 4:54 AM, G650 said:

Not sure what ages the kids are, but you may want to check out Temple Church. Actual Templars buried there with effigies, pretty low traffic spot too, unlike a lot of other places. 

I thought it was really cool and worth seeing. Kids will like it if they know some of the history first.

I also found the plaque of the Texas embassy. Took a few minutes of searching but made my day.

[kevwun 15788]

We got to Temple Church 30 minutes after it closed.  Still a cool little secluded spot in the middle of the city.  We hit up some awesome old pubs on Fleet St. instead so it worked out ok.

Edited May 8, 2018 by kevwun

[thunderlounge 7832]

Not London specific,  but may be of interest. BA is joining in on Precheck, and should be fully in place soon. 

[kevwun 15788]

Weird deal on that.  After we checked our bags at the BA counter, we got sent all the way down to the last security checkpoint.  No body scanners and we didn't have to take off our shoes.  It was like pre-check except everyone got it.  No clue why.

Edited May 9, 2018 by kevwun

[elfenix 34240]

On 4/25/2018 at 7:15 AM, G650 said:

Nobody is saying they "embody the international perception of the country", they dominate the country in every facet. And honestly, Paris is way less of a dominant force in France than London is in England. There really is no comparison anywhere else.

 

the term you guy were looking for is primate city.  that's a city that culturally, economically, politically and demographically dominates the country.  bangkok is probably the best comparison to london in terms national stature (probably surpasses london, even), but it's not a world capital or world alpha++ city on top of being a national primate city. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by elfenix

[G650 14256]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

the term you guy were looking for is primate city.  that's a city that culturally, economically, politically and demographically dominates the country.  bangkok is probably the best comparison to london in terms national statute (probably surpasses london, even), but it's not a world capital or world alpha++ city on top of being a national primate city.