For the WWII Nerds - Best admirals voted by panel of peers in 1942

[Macanudo 12974]

Shortly after our entry into WWII FDR asked Frank Knox (Secretary of the Navy) for a list of the top 40 Naval officers.  There were 120 flag officers/captains about to be promoted to choose from.   A panel of prior fleet commanders voted on the list.  The curator of the Battleship New Jersey Museum has a good Youtube channel and he put out a video recently about the list.

As he points out, who is and who is not on the list is interesting.   Some of them had distinguished careers but no one knows their name today because they held a low visibility command or they never fucked up enough to be known.   

It's worth a watch and not too terribly long (around 20 minutes.)

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Macanudo

[atomheartbevo 89618]

15 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

who is not on the list is interesting.

Nimitz and Spruance not on the list.

[RPM 26315]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

Nimitz and Spruance not on the list.

Yeah, that.

[Macanudo 12974]

He talks about why Nimitz might not have made the list.   Spruance was one who caught my eye too but as the narrator said, a lot of this list was based a popularity contest among the panel.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Macanudo

[gsoda3 3245]

interestingly enough nimitz's background was as a submarine expert and they weren't well represented on this list.

[BabaYaga 15286]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

interestingly enough nimitz's background was as a submarine expert and they weren't well represented on this list.

Yep.  Which is even more wild, US subs accounted for some crazy stat like 9 out of every 10 Jap boats sunk was due to sub activity.  Pre landings, it was the sub activity that was starving the islands out and keeping supplies from being delivered.  Nimitz utilized these guys perfectly.  He was a Texas boy, and not a pompous ass like MacArthur.  

[Brisketexan 105041]

More pie, admiral?

[hookemATL 11700]

No Admiral Akbar?

[Guadaloopy 10954]

[Gatorubet 30183]

Joe Rochefort as a non-academy “mustang” never got his proper due for his Midway work predicting the Japanese plans.  Lots of politics and cronyism at work in the military. 

[Dbeasy 15039]

It’s all politics. 

[UpperWestside 6159]

I try not to rank these admirals and other commanders in any order outside of having Admiral Nimitz at the top of the depth chart with Admiral Spruance the top commander that was active out on the high seas. If he was not in charge at Midway we might’ve been fresh out of carriers at the end of that battle. The rest all played a role as part of a larger machine and the ones that rose up and performed the best all should get an equal share of the praise for beating Japan.
 

Spruance and Admiral Lee are the two I believe I would’ve enjoyed a conversation with the most outside of Nimitz of course. Spruance had a mind that never stopped organizing and planning, even in retirement. He was born at the right time, in the right place and was in command at precisely the right time in history to do what he did and the history of the war accurately shows that. 

[UpperWestside 6159]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Nimitz and Spruance not on the list.

Well looking at who made the list you were asking people that fought the last war who was going to be the guys you could count on to win an entirely new and vicious type of war. No one could adequately say how it would be fought. We have the hindsight of looking back and saying how could they not see the brilliance of these two men when making that list. War has a way of showing who is the best at their job and often it is not the ones with the best resume going in. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by UpperWestside

[Mighty fine 169]

I try not to rank these admirals and other commanders in any order outside of having Admiral Nimitz at the top of the depth chart with Admiral Spruance the top commander that was active out on the high seas. If he was not in charge at Midway we might’ve been fresh out of carriers at the end of that battle. The rest all played a role as part of a larger machine and the ones that rose up and performed the best all should get an equal share of the praise for beating Japan.
 
Spruance and Admiral Lee are the two I believe I would’ve enjoyed a conversation with the most outside of Nimitz of course. Spruance had a mind that never stopped organizing and planning, even in retirement. He was born at the right time, in the right place and was in command at precisely the right time in history to do what he did and the history of the war accurately shows that. 

I've been enthralled by battleships since i was a kid. Lee at Guadacanal is one of my favorite accounts of the pacific theater. Being an Olympian in rifle shooting, then going on to run a battleship division like a calvaryman charging on horseback with pistols blazing.... fucking awesome

[UpperWestside 6159]

3 hours ago, Mighty fine said:

5 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I try not to rank these admirals and other commanders in any order outside of having Admiral Nimitz at the top of the depth chart with Admiral Spruance the top commander that was active out on the high seas. If he was not in charge at Midway we might’ve been fresh out of carriers at the end of that battle. The rest all played a role as part of a larger machine and the ones that rose up and performed the best all should get an equal share of the praise for beating Japan.
 
Spruance and Admiral Lee are the two I believe I would’ve enjoyed a conversation with the most outside of Nimitz of course. Spruance had a mind that never stopped organizing and planning, even in retirement. He was born at the right time, in the right place and was in command at precisely the right time in history to do what he did and the history of the war accurately shows that. 

I've been enthralled by battleships since i was a kid. Lee at Guadacanal is one of my favorite accounts of the pacific theater. Being an Olympian in rifle shooting, then going on to run a battleship division like a calvaryman charging on horseback with pistols blazing.... fucking awesome

What he and the other ships and sailors did in the battle on that night was not just momentous in showing the power of radar, it also showed something to the commanders in charge of the IJN. The propaganda they were constantly fed was that Americans lived a decadent lifestyle and that when push came to shove they would not fight.

The Japanese were shocked at the ferocity displayed by the American ships in the all out hell and chaos that transpired. They did not believe the Americans would fight as hard and as disciplined as they did. Guadalcanal, especially Admiral Lee’s role in it, was just brutal for both sides. The death and destruction visited upon each navy was harsh, but the Americans stood up to the Japanese, who to that point were masters of night attacks. They trained for it and we did not, but Lee had radar and his steadying confidence in his ability to position his ships right where he needed to be. I honestly cannot imagine being in the middle of that brawl between ships. Without Lee taking his stand we lose a whole bunch more of the marines who were watching the battle from the shore while having no idea who was doing what. The marines kept asking when the navy was going to show up and boy did they ever right when they were needed. The Tokyo Express was halted and the Japanese were unofficially in evacuation mode not long thereafter.

[UpperWestside 6159]

15 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  Which is even more wild, US subs accounted for some crazy stat like 9 out of every 10 Jap boats sunk was due to sub activity.  Pre landings, it was the sub activity that was starving the islands out and keeping supplies from being delivered.  Nimitz utilized these guys perfectly.  He was a Texas boy, and not a pompous ass like MacArthur.  

Admiral Lockwood had his guys in the submarines doing tremendous amounts of damage. So much so that eventually they ran out of stuff to sink for the most part. What worked so well for our navy was the organization of it. Everyone had a role and it did not matter what it was the sailors just did it. The submarine commanders knew their work went mostly unnoticed by the press, but they did their job as effectively as any allied group in the war and then some.

[locodos 5387]

8 hours ago, Mighty fine said:

I've been enthralled by battleships since i was a kid. Lee at Guadacanal is one of my favorite accounts of the pacific theater. Being an Olympian in rifle shooting, then going on to run a battleship division like a calvaryman charging on horseback with pistols blazing.... fucking awesome

a little off topic, I saw a documentry that had a fleeting line in it about US tactics in ww2.  IIRC it was a British historian talking about war doctrine and how the Europeans (by tradition or naivete) thought you couldn't assault land based fortifications from ships.  He then proceeds to state that US did just exactly that thing to great effect in the Pacific and the British navy types were stunned.

 

It might have been in this one somewhere.   Worth a watch if your into Pacific ww2 stuff

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Well looking at who made the list you were asking people that fought the last war who was going to be the guys you could count on to win an entirely new and vicious type of war. No one could adequately say how it would be fought. We have the hindsight of looking back and saying how could they not see the brilliance of these two men when making that list. War has a way of showing who is the best at their job and often it is not the ones with the best resume going in. 

Your last line is a concept I try to convey to idiots who overvalue the fuck out of interviews/ get fooled at the combine,if you will.

Lots of shit looks good on paper, how are they when it matters?

[BabaYaga 15286]

2 hours ago, locodos said:

IIRC it was a British historian talking about war doctrine and how the Europeans (by tradition or naivete) thought you couldn't assault land based fortifications from ships.

Because of the Higgins Boats.  There's a reason the WWII museum is at the old Higgins plant in New Orleans.  

Quote

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower later referred to Higgins as "the man who won the war for us." The shipbuilder's reputation extended to Germany, where Adolf Hitler begrudgingly complimented him as "the New Noah."

Higgins manufactured more than 20,000 boats during his decades-long career. His landing craft were used in every major amphibious assault of World War II, from the shores of Europe to the Pacific islands.

[BabaYaga 15286]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Your last line is a concept I try to convey to idiots who overvalue the fuck out of interviews/ get fooled at the combine,if you will.

Lots of shit looks good on paper, how are they when it matters?

I have people skills.....

[BabaYaga 15286]

13 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

War has a way of showing who is the best at their job and often it is not the ones with the best resume going in. 

Think about how many Generals Lincoln went through before landing with Grant/Sherman

[locodos 5387]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Because of the Higgins Boats.  There's a reason the WWII museum is at the old Higgins plant in New Orleans.  

Those boats are bad ass.   I was talking more about ships bombarding land fortifications.  The thinking was the ships could never stand up to land based artillery.  Us battleships in the Pacific proved that wrong time and time again.

[BabaYaga 15286]

1 minute ago, locodos said:

Those boats are bad ass.   I was talking more about ships bombarding land fortifications.  The thinking was the ships could never stand up to land based artillery.  Us battleships in the Pacific proved that wrong time and time again.

History was somewhat on the Europeans side if you look back early on.  Gibraltar being one example.  Drøbak Sound being another.  It was defeated/damaged from the air, not via bombardment.  Or go back further to the Dardanelles or Gallipoli.  I think at the end of the day it was just easier to avoid fixed emplacements and try and dance around them.  Then with the advent of the carrier, it was even easier to send in planes and protect the larger, capital ships who came in later to soften everything up.  The Americans flipped the script with the landing boats and carrier power.  

The Japanese also learned to let the Americans come inland before attacking vs trying to hold the beach so all their weaponry was facing inward, not out at sea (for the most part).  For the Germans, they had decent coastal batteries, but they can't be everywhere at once.  They had interlocking fields of fire and the beaches were all bracketed, but it was just that - the beaches.  

[RPM 26315]

41 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Because of the Higgins Boats.  There's a reason the WWII museum is at the old Higgins plant in New Orleans.  

My Dad was the coxswain of a Higgins Boat at Iwo Jima. He also knew how to get around 30% more horsepower out of a 6-71 Detroit.

[atomheartbevo 89618]

14 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Well looking at who made the list you were asking people that fought the last war who was going to be the guys you could count on to win an entirely new and vicious type of war. No one could adequately say how it would be fought. We have the hindsight of looking back and saying how could they not see the brilliance of these two men when making that list. War has a way of showing who is the best at their job and often it is not the ones with the best resume going in. 

Yep. Eisenhower is a good example of how fast things can change.  From 1924 - 1936, he was a Major.  In 1936, he was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel.  In March of 1941, he was promoted to Colonel.  15 months later, he was pinning on his third star.  Of course, the Army of the United States went from a few hundred thousand in 1939 to millions pretty fast, so obviously things were going to scale up, but somehow the whole process sorted out the men like Eisenhower, Nimitz, etc., and made sure they were exactly where they needed to be, when they needed to be there.

 

[Dutch 4465]

39 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yep. Eisenhower is a good example of how fast things can change.  From 1924 - 1936, he was a Major.  In 1936, he was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel.  In March of 1941, he was promoted to Colonel.  15 months later, he was pinning on his third star.  Of course, the Army of the United States went from a few hundred thousand in 1939 to millions pretty fast, so obviously things were going to scale up, but somehow the whole process sorted out the men like Eisenhower, Nimitz, etc., and made sure they were exactly where they needed to be, when they needed to be there.

 

Came across this talk (originally given in 2011) a few months ago about the qualities George Marshall sought in his generals after getting promoted to Army Chief of Staff.  Basically, Ike personified what he was looking for.

 

[Macanudo 12974]

Couple of comments on some things said by others....

The idea that those on the committee were still trying to fight the last war is kind of thrown for a loop by the list.  10 men on that list had some degree of naval aviation experience.    Granted, I don't know how the committee couldn't have seen what was coming since they made the list in 1942.   With 5 being submariners, that's kind of impressive that almost half were experienced in the two ways the war was fought on a naval basis (at least in the Pacific.)  Several of the other 25 went on to decent if not solid careers with the Atlantic Fleet and several others did good staff work throughout the war.  

Willis Lee is a great example of a leader embracing new technology (radar) and not being afraid to use it.  He learned quite a bit about it from a technical and practical aspect.  Mitscher is another one like that.  His decision during the Battle of the Philippine Sea to turn on the landing lights for aircract coming back from the Turkey Shoot is at once awesome and horrific but it worked out all right.

[UpperWestside 6159]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:00 AM, RPM said:

My Dad was the coxswain of a Higgins Boat at Iwo Jima. He also knew how to get around 30% more horsepower out of a 6-71 Detroit.

What stories did your father tell you about his experiences in the Pacific? I would love to hear them if you are willing to share them on here. I am sure others would enjoy that as well.

[RPM 26315]

1 minute ago, UpperWestside said:

What stories did your father tell you about his experiences in the Pacific?

Honestly, he didn't share that much. He served on a subchaser in the Atlantic that was credited with a probable then was transferred to the Pac on an LST. His records were destroyed in the St. Louis fire but I've pieced together some of it online.

[UpperWestside 6159]

Just now, RPM said:

Honestly, he didn't share that much. He served on a subchaser in the Atlantic that was credited with a probable then was transferred to the Pac on an LST. His records were destroyed in the St. Louis fire but I've pieced together some of it online.

Sorry to hear about the records being lost like that. Being at Iwo Jima probably left him with some pretty incredible emotional scars. I have a friend who is trying to find his grandfather’s service record and he would have to go through the archives to get it. He was an African American soldier so this could also make it more difficult to find out exactly what he did. He knows he was stationed in New Guinea and The Philippines and wants to plan a trip with his wife to retrace where his grandfather was at. I am trying to help him as best I can with that once he hopefully gets a few bits and pieces of the puzzle.

[RPM 26315]

A fire destroyed millions of veterans’ records. 50 years later, families are still seeking answers

The July 12, 1973, fire in Overland, Missouri, consumed an estimated 16 to 18 million personnel files, the vast majority covering the period just before World War I through 1963. It’s believed to be the largest loss of records in one catastrophe in U.S. history.

It is an event that dogged untold veterans, forcing them to fight once more — this time for benefits, medals and recognition they’d earned. It echoes to this day — in the struggles of families seeking to document the achievements and sacrifices of loved ones, or to bury them with full military honors; and in the efforts of conspiracy theorists, still searching for proof of a nefarious plot behind what government investigators long ago wrote off as most likely the careless act of a single man.

More than anything, it highlights the monumental, ongoing effort to reclaim the history that, at the time, seemed irretrievably lost.

[UpperWestside 6159]

A fire happens I can understand. Seems insane, but fires happen. I cannot understand how the United States did not have any back-up archive of these records. I get this was before the computer age, but man that comes across as odd to me.

Edited November 12, 2023 by UpperWestside

[RPM 26315]

It was 1973. Very pre-digital copy. Most records were original or carbon copies (and flammable).

[UpperWestside 6159]

That just sucks because that is just history that is gone. Thank God so many historians have written as much about the war as they have and continue to do, but those individual records help tell someone’s life story. 

[RPM 26315]

10 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

That just sucks because that is just history that is gone. Thank God so many historians have written as much about the war as they have and continue to do, but those individual records help tell someone’s life story. 

Individual vet group historians posting records online was how I was able to track down the LST my Dad served on at Iwo. It wasn't much other than a ship's roster but it was something. 

[UpperWestside 6159]

That sounds like the route my friend is going to have to go. He just wants a stronger connection to his past as he gets older now and has grandkids. He loves history so knowing what his grandfather did during the war is important to him. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:03 PM, Gatorubet said:

Joe Rochefort as a non-academy “mustang” never got his proper due for his Midway work predicting the Japanese plans.  Lots of politics and cronyism at work in the military. 

Excellent book that gives insight into the politics of the military.

[tx 3 putt 76859]

Admiral James T Kirk >>>> everyone else 

[UpperWestside 6159]

23 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Excellent book that gives insight into the politics of the military.

The back and forth he had with the politically-minded code breakers in Washington who he argued with almost non-stop over his code-breaking ability, as well as that of the rest of the staff out in Hawaii, is good reading. I will have to add this book to the list as Rochefort was one of the most interesting characters of the entire war and definitely one of the most intelligent people as well.

[Felix 607]

On 11/12/2023 at 2:51 PM, RPM said:

A fire destroyed millions of veterans’ records. 50 years later, families are still seeking answers

The July 12, 1973, fire in Overland, Missouri, consumed an estimated 16 to 18 million personnel files, the vast majority covering the period just before World War I through 1963. It’s believed to be the largest loss of records in one catastrophe in U.S. history.

It is an event that dogged untold veterans, forcing them to fight once more — this time for benefits, medals and recognition they’d earned. It echoes to this day — in the struggles of families seeking to document the achievements and sacrifices of loved ones, or to bury them with full military honors; and in the efforts of conspiracy theorists, still searching for proof of a nefarious plot behind what government investigators long ago wrote off as most likely the careless act of a single man.

More than anything, it highlights the monumental, ongoing effort to reclaim the history that, at the time, seemed irretrievably lost.

My grandfathers records were lost in this fire as well.

[Gatorubet 30183]

My father and uncle’s records are among those lost.  Damn shame.  Dad‘s war experience was amazing, defending St Vith during the battle of the bulge and being among the first to cross the Rhine river at Remagen.
My uncle was a member of the Devil’s Brigade who served in the Aleutians and Italy.  and they were experts in a lot of things, paratroopers, ski troops, mountain troops, demolition experts, and they received martial arts training from the head of Hong Kong security.
They made a name in Italy, going out at night and capturing German prisoners and killing anyone who tried to stop them. They had special cards made up that said in German “The Worst is Yet To Come” that they would leave with the bodies.
My uncle was a bad ass.  I wish those records existed. I have heard rumors that the records were not all destroyed in the fire, but that the government never got around to fixing the documents that were water damaged- and they are sitting somewhere in a clump

[PTINS 3459]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:10 AM, locodos said:

a little off topic, I saw a documentry that had a fleeting line in it about US tactics in ww2.  IIRC it was a British historian talking about war doctrine and how the Europeans (by tradition or naivete) thought you couldn't assault land based fortifications from ships.  He then proceeds to state that US did just exactly that thing to great effect in the Pacific and the British navy types were stunned.

It might have been in this one somewhere.   Worth a watch if your into Pacific ww2 stuff

 

I saw something on You Tube that was interesting, talking about battleship range finders and the accuracy of their fire control. I never really thought about it til I saw it. Very simple math, when given the right optics and precise measurement tools.

When you have the means to calculate something to the nth degree, life is simple. 

When firing 5,000 lb shells, you don't have to be hand grenade close.

[Gil Bang 25907]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:31 AM, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  Which is even more wild, US subs accounted for some crazy stat like 9 out of every 10 Jap boats sunk was due to sub activity.  Pre landings, it was the sub activity that was starving the islands out and keeping supplies from being delivered.  Nimitz utilized these guys perfectly.  He was a Texas boy, and not a pompous ass like MacArthur.  

 

On 11/7/2023 at 10:41 PM, UpperWestside said:

Admiral Lockwood had his guys in the submarines doing tremendous amounts of damage. So much so that eventually they ran out of stuff to sink for the most part. What worked so well for our navy was the organization of it. Everyone had a role and it did not matter what it was the sailors just did it. The submarine commanders knew their work went mostly unnoticed by the press, but they did their job as effectively as any allied group in the war and then some.

Admiral King (who ran the whole fucking show) used to have all of his division commanders on the figurative carpet on a regular basis. He'd coach them up and/or bust their balls as needed.    He left Lockwood the fuck alone because he was doing such a terrific job. Got Lockwood's reports, read them, and that was that. 

[gofuckyourself 8195]

No one? ... fine

[Frank Drebin 5654]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:50 PM, Guadaloopy said:

[Macanudo 12974]

King gets far less credit than he should in general.   He was a dynamic, effectual leader who had a wealth of Navy service under his belt.  He'd commanded a sub base and the Lexington before the war.   He wasn't some battleship guy who thought that WWII would be fought like Jutland.   

[PTINS 3459]

On 11/12/2023 at 2:33 PM, UpperWestside said:

What stories did your father tell you about his experiences in the Pacific? I would love to hear them if you are willing to share them on here. I am sure others would enjoy that as well.

TLDR.

I made my own decisions and am happy with life. But I always felt some what cheated.  

I was an Air Force Brat, moved every 2 years, and grew up as a young teenager in Austin during the Viet Nam War. I watched the Watergate hearings my senior year, earned a scholarship to UT, and Nixon resigned on my 18th Birthday. I feel like I was in a tiny slice of American History were the desire to serve your country was at an all time low.  But I always grew up with supreme admiration and respect for those that choose to serve.

With that said, here is a portion of the Eulogy I gave for my Uncle in 2008, who served in WWII in Africa & Europe.

Guadalupe G. G.
Uncle Lupe’

The last time I saw my grandfather, in the early 60's, I was 6 years old.  For over 40 years, Lupe’ was the Family Patriarch, the Elder Statesman, our Family’s Leader. I always marveled at the respect he commanded from his brothers and sisters, and the kind of man it takes to earn that respect.

Uncle Lupe was always there with a smile, a twinkle of the eye, and a kind, soft word. He personified Loyalty, to his brothers and sisters, and to his extended family, and to his Army Buddies in Company A.  He had 4 opportunities to leave the Company, three times to go to officers training, and he declined each time. He wanted to stay with his men.  His Loyalty to his customers for 39 years, 15 years as the Parts Manager for Woody’s Jeep and 24 more as the owner of “Lupe’s Parts.” His Loyalty to the church, to the Astros, and most important, to Aunt Lupita, for over 59 years. 

Being an “Air Force Brat”, I was always interested in military history, and World War II. I always wondered why Lupe never talked about the war, and about ten years ago, I asked my mother about it.   She told me he would never bring it up, but if I asked, he would tell me about it. 

About 2 years ago, I went to see Lupe, As we talked, I asked about his childhood, and he just started talking.  I asked him to wait, he got me a pad of paper, and I started taking notes.

Here is what he shared with me:

He was born December 12, 1919 (passed away 9/8/08), the first of 10 kids from Hills Prairie (south of Bastrop, Tx); it had 1 store, 1 cotton gin, 1 school, Mexican’s only, whites took a bus to Bastrop. (We are descendants of a Spanish Land Grant family from the 1750's) They were share croppers, and kept 2/3 and 1/3 went to the landowner. When the owner died, they split the farm into 3 parcels, with 1 piece going to my grandfather. They had water, but no electricity; 120 acres, grew cotton, corn, peppers, beans, onions, garlic & potatoes, had peach trees, pigs & chickens, and a 1 horse cart. They used to sell peaches for $1.50/basket, and eggs for 5 cents/dozen.

At age 7, Lupe' began plowing the fields, with 2 mules.  At age 11, he smoked his first cigarette.  He only went to school till 9th grade, from October-March. He picked cotton til October, and left school in the spring to plant cotton. Later, he'd go to Lubbock to pick cotton til December, making $15/week.

He joined the Army after Pearl Harbor, 1st 3 days in San Antonio. (He was mostly in 5th Army, 85th Infantry Division, 339th Regiment, Company A. (Rifle Platoon, Mortars & Machine Guns)

1942, Camp Shelby, Mississippi
    He had good hearing, so they sent him to Athens, Georgia, to Radio School (Tech Corporal), 6 weeks
    Fort Polk, Louisiana
    California, Mojave Desert
    Yuma, Az,  Mountain Training, 4 ½ months

Radio Operator w/ 40 lb radio, always next to Company Commander, had 3 runners to get info to each platoon
Trenton, New Jersey, training 2-3 weeks
December 25, 1943, left Norfolk, Virginia for Africa, troop ships, 900-1000 people/boat
January 1, 1944, Casablanca, Morocco, ~ 5 months
        50 miles into the desert, more training
        Practice landing w/ landing craft
Men rode camels, women held tails of camels, women in Muslim dress, only eyes exposed
Weekends, went to town ~ 25 miles
Fall 1944, Naples, Italy, 36th Infantry Division, from Texas
Staff Sergeant, Company Communications
Went to France, sang “Rancho Grande” @ Christmas Party
Was offered a transfer to “Recreation Service Company” (Entertainment); declined

There was a fire in their occupied house, lantern & gas can exploded, killed the Company commander, Captain Britain

Went through middle of Italy, Mt Vesuvius, 3 hours to get to the top

Walking through waist high grass, US Artillery fired on troops; shells exploding, dirt flying, He radioed call to stop; close calls, but no casualties. 

German Rail Guns, Screaming Mee-Mee’s; 1st Sgt. Luke Jackson was hit (knee). Lupe promoted to 1st Sergeant
Went to Rome, people gave them bread and food.                                                                                                                                            Went to the Vatican, met the Pope
Lots of snow, tents had 2” of ice on them

Po River, Italy, Company HQ in an occupied house
    Went outside to get an onion, house hit by German Artillery, everyone killed; Battlefield Commission to 1st Lieutenant

3 offers to go to Officers School, he declined each time

When War ended, was at a German arm’s depot on the Austrian border
He didn’t have enough points to come home, and was sent to Florence, Italy
Came back to Brownwood, Texas, and was given an Honorable Discharge from the Army after serving for 42 months.

He left Virginia in 1943 with 199 Men.  29 came back.  170 either killed or wounded. He was one of four that did not receive a Purple Heart, one of four that wasn’t wounded.

He had many close calls; the exploding lantern, the friendly fire, the onion and the artillery shell, the Screaming Mee-Mees.

He got hit one time, a 6” piece of artillery shrapnel hit his right hip/pelvis, where his radio belt, pistol belt, and trouser belt overlapped. Had it penetrated the artery, he would have died. He didn’t get a scratch.

In a very dense fog (Belgium?), they didn't realized where they were and walked behind enemy lines, could see the faces of the enemy.  He had a 40 lb radio and a pistol. He ran.  He ran for his life, up over the hill. He realized that the difference between life and death might be one step. He quit smoking that day.

Prior to 1942, I don’t think he had ever left Texas, but he had been to Lubbock.

After joining the Army, in 13 months, he went to MS, GA, LA, CA, AZ, NJ, & VA.  In 29 months, he went to Casablanca, Morocco, to  Italy, France, Belgium, Germany and Austria.  He saw the Vatican, met the Pope, went to Rome, climbed Mt, Vesuvius, and spent peace time in Florence, the Renaissance City.  

He saw some of the most beautiful sights on earth, and the violence and horrors of war.

I saw him many times in the hospital over the past few years.  When he got sick this last time, I didn’t want to go. I knew he was really sick, not recognizing or remembering things. My mother and aunt kept me updated, but I couldn’t make myself go, I couldn’t see Uncle Lupe without him looking back at me.

Finally, last Friday, weI went to see him.  He had just got out of ICU. We walked into the room, exchanged greetings, and I walked around the bed to see him, and to hold his hand.  My auntasked him, “Lupe, do you know who that is?” He looked at me, with a twinkle in his eye, a semblance of a smile, and he said, “that’s ... My Nephew!” 

He was so possessive! I had never heard that from him before. He was proud. But not as proud as I was.

That was “My Uncle Lupe“, Smiling, with a twinkle in his eyes.

In 1942, Ike (the General), came for Lupe to serve his country, and took him away. Today, 68 years later, Ike (the Hurricane) is back, to take Lupe, once again, back to his Lupita.

Thank you.
 

[Felix 607]

1 hour ago, Macanudo said:

King gets far less credit than he should in general.   He was a dynamic, effectual leader who had a wealth of Navy service under his belt.  He'd commanded a sub base and the Lexington before the war.   He wasn't some battleship guy who thought that WWII would be fought like Jutland.   

There is a great book I recently listened to.  The Admirals by Walter Borneman.  Focuses on the Five Star Admirals and their careers up to and including WWII.  King was the right man for the job.

[UpperWestside 6159]

1 hour ago, Felix said:

There is a great book I recently listened to.  The Admirals by Walter Borneman.  Focuses on the Five Star Admirals and their careers up to and including WWII.  King was the right man for the job.

I read this book over the summer. I enjoyed it.

[UpperWestside 6159]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:36 PM, Gil Bang said:

 

Admiral King (who ran the whole fucking show) used to have all of his division commanders on the figurative carpet on a regular basis. He'd coach them up and/or bust their balls as needed.    He left Lockwood the fuck alone because he was doing such a terrific job. Got Lockwood's reports, read them, and that was that. 

Admiral King was quite the character, but he knew who to go after and who to just let do their job. King was another person born at the right time and place to do exactly what he was supposed to do. He was bombastic, but so are a lot of people in a position of responsibility like he was.

He fought to get the folks in the Pacific more of what they needed instead of just letting it sit and waste away while the Allies tried to figure out their strategy to get into Fortress Europe.

As far as submarine commanders go I think Mush Morton might be the most colorful in theater commander of any branch of the armed forces. It’s a shame he and his crew did not survive the war. That guy and his crew had balls of steel to pull off the raids they did.