Sustainable living

[Woodrow Call 494]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

You might not be "against" having children, and I believe you have and love your N-2 offsprings, but the general sentiment of "humans = bad" is common amongst the climate doomer community, and active promotion of population reduction is their belief.  It is also a plain fact, and also in that graphic, that wealthier and more educated slices of the population have far fewer children than the rest. That's not an optimal situation, broadly speaking.. *insert Mike Judge reference here*.

 

Compressing gas at high pressures and transporting it from station to station seems way less good than delivering electricity.  Which we already do pretty much everywhere.

Derrick Jensen is an example of someone that is very much against humans and sees humans as the core problem. I have strong issues with many of his views. But just to clarify my own position...I don't see humans as "bad." I see some human behaviors as bad and believe those behaviors (and certain economic views) as bad. 

[52-80 19157]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

The tech I've seen is based on electrolysis of H2O.

The only “hydrogen powered car” im aware of are the extant FCEV represented commercially by a few models. 

Theres 1 fueling station very near to me. There used to be 2, but one literally blew up a few years ago. 

[WBT 20571]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Either way, they can all be fed.

Until we run out of phosphorus

[mooseoutfront 3643]

On 11/10/2023 at 8:40 AM, tbone_ said:

No takers huh?

And for the record, I like most of these ideas. Just wondering if we went to the utmost extreme and everyone in the US started living like Grizzly Adams would it even matter.

 

[troph 24797]

1 hour ago, Woodrow Call said:

Derrick Jensen is an example of someone that is very much against humans and sees humans as the core problem. I have strong issues with many of his views. But just to clarify my own position...I don't see humans as "bad." I see some human behaviors as bad and believe those behaviors (and certain economic views) as bad. 

unsustainable fuel / power / pollutive byproducts + unsustainable single use plastic practices + further destruction of environment for development

it's pretty hard to see a sustainable planet where humans and the natural world co-exist successfully with these three practices.

not anti-human, but we continually fail to consider all stakeholders in conversations on these topics.

Edited November 13, 2023 by troph

[troph 24797]

10 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

To add some humor to this depressing thread, it's funny how the one unifying concept of most people around sustainability seems to be, "I hate single use plastics and want to do everything I can that is convenient to help-- EXCEPT PAPER STRAWS!"

uncooked pasta straws for the win!!

I fucking hate straws and haven't said anything about them because it's a high level target to make fun of progressives for the do nothing crowd.

Edited November 13, 2023 by troph

[Biff Tannen 45684]

Paper straws are bullshit.  Plant-based compostable straws, however, work just fine as long as you don't snap them in half.  But that seems like an insanely easy solution to me.

[Guest]

or drink out of the glass.

( restaurants... the horror.)

[mdmost 43001]

Am I uncouth because I never use a straw at a restaurant or fast food place? I don't understand why I would worry about germs in a glass if I'm not worried about germs on the plate or utensils they are providing me. 

[TankedBevo 2482]

20 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Am I uncouth because I never use a straw at a restaurant or fast food place? I don't understand why I would worry about germs in a glass if I'm not worried about germs on the plate or utensils they are providing me. 

I'm the same way and my wife thinks I'm crazy. Having worked in the service industry in various roles while I was in college, the cups are the LEAST of my concerns.

[Brisketexan 105139]

2 minutes ago, TankedBevo said:

Having worked in the service industry in various roles while I was in college, the cups are the LEAST of my concerns.

Per my recollection of working in restaurants, one's chief concern should have been STDs picked up from a co-worker during shenanigans after closing time.

Allegedly.

[52-80 19157]

5 hours ago, BeardIP said:

While it's your right to behave and act in whatever manner you want within legal guardrails, there are a lot of people who are not so materially and self-centered in their focus and impetus for their actions in this life.

If a person wants to be the Mother Teresa of Earth stewardship, kudos to them, im a fan of self-agency. 

My point is that harboring weltschmerz over impending catastrophization of humankind is a very regressive belief system. In part because it is blind to the spectacular advancement humans have made so far, and will continue to make to support life. 

When my granddad grew up, the atomic structure was barely understood. Houses were lit with candles and oil lamps. The “airplane” glided the length of a football field. And he had never seen an automobile. When my dad grew up, there was nuclear energy, television was beamed down from satellites, and a human walked on the fucking moon. Now I can put a solar panel on my roof, harness electricity for free, and have it power a family sedan that goes 200 miles per hour. (Mine goes 160 from hydroelectric power but itll do). 

Human ingenuity did all that. 

If two spouses are of reasonable intelligence, make some kids. Chances are theyre going to be smart, capable, and their cohort together will produce some shit we cant even imagine to solve problems we havent even encountered.

My comments on being self-centered is not an endorsement of doing wanton wasteful shit, purely for the sake of it. Thats being a bad human. Modding an diesel truck to roll coal for jollies is bad juju. Owning one to occasionally tow a recreation boat is a prerogative that you should enjoy and not feel guilt over. 

So I will not flag hypocrisy against someone like @trophfor parking a F350 in his garage next to his Tesla. Hes probably a good human being making sensible choices, and a F350 with a Tesla is still better than 2xF350s.

I will pick a bone with someone like John Kerry flying around in private jets to sit in climate change conferences. NOT because I think his (“family’s”) jet contributes directly to the future calving of 1m3 of glacier that rises sea level and kills 4 bengali kids. But I think that level of hypocrisy is an insult to human integrity.

[Biff Tannen 45684]

31 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

So I will not flag hypocrisy against someone like @trophfor parking a F350 in his garage next to his Tesla. Hes probably a good human being making sensible choices, and a F350 with a Tesla is still better than 2xF350s.

Her, fyi.

[troph 24797]

For the record we have not burned a gallon of diesel since April. This year we have driven less than 500 miles with our F350. Conversely we’ve driven approximately 20,000 miles (some travel but mostly soccer mom shit) on electric power more than 2/3 of which originated from solar power.

Our electricity bill is somewhere between $50 per month (in the cooler months) and $220 per month (in the blast furnace months), with significant solar power pushed to the grid on extremely sunny days (anytime of year) and a significantly reduced draw during summer peak hours (afternoon sun or battery power early evenings).

we do as much as we can and will do more to reduce household waste and trash and hope to really step up composting to reduce methane produced from our household waste.

there’s probably more but fuck it I don’t care anymore.
 

In short we may not do enough but we are doing what we can to reduce carbon and help with clean energy.

BUT F350!!!!

I don’t tell anyone what to do. but by all means read my posts as telling others what to do.  And keep calling me a hypocrite or cozying up to that line if it makes you feel better.  
 

y’all have fun this thread is a fucking dumpster fire. 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by troph

[52-80 19157]

42 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Her, fyi.

thats a lie. there are no women on the internet. 

 

14 minutes ago, troph said:

BUT F350!!!!

I don’t tell anyone what to do. but by all means read my posts as telling others what to do.  And keep calling me a hypocrite or cozying up to that line if it makes you feel better.  

I quite *literally* said I **dont** criticize your lifestyle as hypocritical - which is what someone else did upthread - and 3x said your choice in life should be yours guilt free. 
 

maybe once more en espanol instead?

[wild_turkey 3159]

I think maybe troph was referring to the posters that originally criticized her for having a lake house and an F350.

The intent of this thread is not to criticize each other for things we do that are short of perfect. It’s just a place for discussion of various topics and to share ideas for how we can possibly improve or make more educated decisions. I appreciate some of the different viewpoints that are offered, even if I don’t agree with all of them.

I also don’t think sustainability is synonymous with carbon emissions or climate. It can apply to a lot of other areas in life, like what is the best type and source of fish to buy to avoid overfishing our oceans?

[Bevo&Pevo 5145]

In the last day or two, I'm starting to get this these guys advertising on the TV.  They claim no more plastic jugs.  Anyone use 'em?

Tru Earth Laundry Strips - Eco-friendly Laundry Detergent Sheets - Tru Earth

AI is watching me read this thread. 

[Biff Tannen 45684]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

what is the best type and source of fish to buy to avoid overfishing our oceans?

Very cool site lauded by a ton of well known chefs also.

https://www.seafoodwatch.org/

 

Region specific guides

https://www.seafoodwatch.org/recommendations/download-consumer-guides

[Biff Tannen 45684]

57 minutes ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

In the last day or two, I'm starting to get this these guys advertising on the TV.  They claim no more plastic jugs.  Anyone use 'em?

Tru Earth Laundry Strips - Eco-friendly Laundry Detergent Sheets - Tru Earth

AI is watching me read this thread. 

Yep, got em.  They work fine.  

Right after I got them my MIL brought over a Costco size container of Tide pods, so I'm going through those before I refill on the Tru Earth ones.  I'm poor right now.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:55 PM, Gil Bang said:

That's an area that I'm VERY familiar with.  It's one of the most economically-depressed areas in CA, and probably the US.  

And the Salton Sea, where I went waterskiing and fishing so many times as a youngster, is a mess. 

My mom was a helldiver. I don't know if they were still doing that when you were going, but I always thought it was the coolest thing. 

[Gil Bang 25957]

5 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

My mom was a helldiver. I don't know if they were still doing that when you were going, but I always thought it was the coolest thing. 

I don't know what that is.  I will look it up.  I've been going there since the mid 70's.  I was there two weeks ago.  It's special to me.  I'm still sad that Congressman Sonny Bono died tragically, because he was also a lifer down there.

[wild_turkey 3159]

In the last day or two, I'm starting to get this these guys advertising on the TV.  They claim no more plastic jugs.  Anyone use 'em?
Tru Earth Laundry Strips - Eco-friendly Laundry Detergent Sheets - Tru Earth
AI is watching me read this thread. 

They appear to be significantly more expensive.

Tru Earth 64 laundry strips for $39.95

Tide 64 load (92 fl oz) laundry detergent for $12.99

I like things that are environmentally friendly, but I struggle when the cost is 3x higher.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

8 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I don't know what that is.  I will look it up.  I've been going there since the mid 70's.  I was there two weeks ago.  It's special to me.  I'm still sad that Congressman Sonny Bono died tragically, because he was also a lifer down there.

She said it was put on by Helen's Place. If I remember correctly, you had to ski the length of the Sea during a competition or something, without falling, for 6 or 7 years straight. If you fell in year 4 or whatever, back to zero. She had a little trophy. It seemed like the place to be for a period of time 

[Gil Bang 25957]

7 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

She said it was put on by Helen's Place. If I remember correctly, you had to ski the length of the Sea during a competition or something, without falling, for 6 or 7 years straight. If you fell in year 4 or whatever, back to zero. She had a little trophy. It seemed like the place to be for a period of time 

Helen's Landing was certainly a thing.  I remember it well.    I'll bet that's it.  Thanks for this!

[Gil Bang 25957]

42 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

They appear to be significantly more expensive.

Tru Earth 64 laundry strips for $39.95

Tide 64 load (92 fl oz) laundry detergent for $12.99

I like things that are environmentally friendly, but I struggle when the cost is 3x higher.

When I was in Italy, I had to do laundry.  I found a laundramat.  Those sheets were the only thing that they sold. 

I can go to Sprouts and buy food in bulk.  Rice, grains, etc.  Why can't I bring my own container and fill it with laundry detergent from a 55 gallon drum? 

[Guest]

Hell, we can't even hit the toilet in a public restroom...

[Celery Man 20949]

you've heard of the tidepod challenge, it's time to hold on to your buttholes for the gain keg stand olympics

Edited November 14, 2023 by Celery Man

[Guest]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:26 AM, 52-80 said:

 

 

Dang. Of course, I always knew Asia had the highest population, but I didn't realize it was that far ahead. And I honestly had no idea Africa was second. In the span of 25 years, they've gone from being tied with Europe to nearly double the population. Sheeeet.

[Stanley 42]

17 hours ago, troph said:

For the record we have not burned a gallon of diesel since April. This year we have driven less than 500 miles with our F350. Conversely we’ve driven approximately 20,000 miles (some travel but mostly soccer mom shit) on electric power more than 2/3 of which originated from solar power.

Our electricity bill is somewhere between $50 per month (in the cooler months) and $220 per month (in the blast furnace months), with significant solar power pushed to the grid on extremely sunny days (anytime of year) and a significantly reduced draw during summer peak hours (afternoon sun or battery power early evenings).

we do as much as we can and will do more to reduce household waste and trash and hope to really step up composting to reduce methane produced from our household waste.

there’s probably more but fuck it I don’t care anymore.
 

In short we may not do enough but we are doing what we can to reduce carbon and help with clean energy.

BUT F350!!!!

I don’t tell anyone what to do. but by all means read my posts as telling others what to do.  And keep calling me a hypocrite or cozying up to that line if it makes you feel better.  
 

y’all have fun this thread is a fucking dumpster fire. 

 

 

 

F350's are awesome. So are teslas. Don't apologize for driving either. 

[gofuckyourself 8237]

11 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

They appear to be significantly more expensive.

Tru Earth 64 laundry strips for $39.95

Tide 64 load (92 fl oz) laundry detergent for $12.99

I like things that are environmentally friendly, but I struggle when the cost is 3x higher.

Several options are cheaper and closer to price as plastic detergents but Tru Earth is probably one of the first to market and does much more marketing.

We bought "Beyond" detergent strips recently, not necessarily just from a sustainable, ecological POV but also because we were using the big liquid dispensers which were heavy and awkward for our 80+ live-in mother and messy as well. I decided to try these in lieu of pods or other alternatives.

If they work well I'll keep using them. They're space saving and I often try to encourage these businesses even if it's more expensive. Hopefully they are more environmentally sound and eventually more economical.

Generally, I'm all for efforts to re-think wasteful behaviors. Mankind's evolutionary history is to find / create a problem - craft a solution. The solution does not always arrive perfectly formed. But if the intent stays "pure" - in this case manufacturing less waste and ostensibly caring more for the environment and our symbiotic animal and plant friends - then that should drive better and better iterations.

Or minimally, it will result in a "compromise" between the pro and con groups until a future date when an even better solution is presented and more widely recognized/accepted.

 

[Bateshorn 9927]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:36 PM, mchookem said:

if you live in a city that promotes recycling (scam or not) you definitely get into the habit. i honestly feel bad now, like 'i don't know what to do with this bottle/can/paper!' bad when i'm visiting my family in podunk east Texas and they're just piling up the beer and White Claw cans for the trash dump. it's weird how your psyche gets trained. 

if i still lived in Texas and had to live thru the summers i'd just have to give the middle finger to the 'Ercot urges conservation!' messages.

IT's funny, I've worked in DC on a lot of sustainability issues.  The best recycling programs are actually rural self sort at the dump.  It encourages people who care to actually do the work to sort Aluminum, Paper, Glass, then separate sort Plastics by 1,2, & 5. 

 

Single bin recycling is a total failure.  If you actually care, we should incentivize aluminum over plastic and glass, and use a deposit system to ensure the bulk of it gets recycled.   I also think that with modern scrubbers, if we are going to send so much garbage to the dump, we might as well burn it.  What's the point of pulling hydrocarbons out of the ground so we can turn it into a non degradable substance, then throw it away.  We might as well get some steam heat out of it. Every load of garbage you burn is a load of coal or gas you don't have to burn to keep the lights on. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Biff Tannen 45684]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

The best recycling programs are actually rural self sort at the dump.  It encourages people who care to actually do the work to sort Aluminum, Paper, Glass, then separate sort Plastics by 1,2, & 5. 

 

Single bin recycling is a total failure. 

When single stream became a thing, I immediately was skeptical.  The very fact that you can't recycle soiled paper makes single stream seem laughable.  When I was growing up and Austin first started curbside recycling, we had to separate.  It wasn't that hard, but I get the idea of single stream getting people more in the habit of recycling.

I bet if the city went back to making people sort, they would do it now, having gotten used to recycling over the past 20 years or so.

[Bateshorn 9927]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

When single stream became a thing, I immediately was skeptical.  The very fact that you can't recycle soiled paper makes single stream seem laughable.  When I was growing up and Austin first started curbside recycling, we had to separate.  It wasn't that hard, but I get the idea of single stream getting people more in the habit of recycling.

I bet if the city went back to making people sort, they would do it now, having gotten used to recycling over the past 20 years or so.

We rented a cabin in rural VA during Covid, and when took our recycling out to the dump, they actually had the glass broken down by color: green, brown, clear, other. It was amazing. Most glass breaks in single stream and is only useful in asphalt production.  By separating by color, you incentivize potentially refiring and using the glass. But again, that requires education and dedication. 

 

The advice I give everyone with recycling:  If you aren't 100% sure, throw it away.  Don't wish cycle.  It's far more harmful than just landfilling. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

We rented a cabin in rural VA during Covid, and when took our recycling out to the dump, they actually had the glass broken down by color: green, brown, clear, other. It was amazing. Most glass breaks in single stream and is only useful in asphalt production.  By separating by color, you incentivize potentially refiring and using the glass. But again, that requires education and dedication. 

Again, I think back to the Mexican cokes I got as a kid. Return the bottles, get new ones. The bottles are cleaned, sanitized, refilled, and capped. No melting them down to turn into something else or other steps. Too damn simple to make sense. Run it through HEB, Coca-Cola picks them up and drops off new ones. 

Of course, I can imagine the howling of putting your lips to a bottle that someone else drank out of... despite the fact we reuse silverware at restaurants.

[Biff Tannen 45684]

31 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The advice I give everyone with recycling:  If you aren't 100% sure, throw it away.  Don't wish cycle.  It's far more harmful than just landfilling. 

Expand on what you mean here.  Do you mean stuff like styrofoam and plastic packaging?  I think most of that gets filtered out, at least in Austin.  Not sure why it would be more harmful when it would end up in the landfill anyway.

[Bateshorn 9927]

9 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Again, I think back to the Mexican cokes I got as a kid. Return the bottles, get new ones. The bottles are cleaned, sanitized, refilled, and capped. No melting them down to turn into something else or other steps. Too damn simple to make sense. Run it through HEB, Coca-Cola picks them up and drops off new ones. 

Of course, I can imagine the howling of putting your lips to a bottle that someone else drank out of... despite the fact we reuse silverware at restaurants.

Most of New England has bottle and can deposit and this is the way it works.  you wash and save your empties and take them back to the corner store and get your money back.  Which obviously you just turn around and buy another 12 or 24 pack. Beer companies want their bottles back to clean, refill, and label.  Otherwise glass is heavy and prone to breaking and spoiling other recyclables. 

[Not that Bob 737]

29 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

We rented a cabin in rural VA during Covid, and when took our recycling out to the dump, they actually had the glass broken down by color: green, brown, clear, other. It was amazing. Most glass breaks in single stream and is only useful in asphalt production.  By separating by color, you incentivize potentially refiring and using the glass. But again, that requires education and dedication. 

 

The advice I give everyone with recycling:  If you aren't 100% sure, throw it away.  Don't wish cycle.  It's far more harmful than just landfilling. 

As I recall, Ecology Action over on I35 (about 7th or 8th, don't remember exactly), had a similar sort it yourself deal. I liked the system, and it seemed like some good was actually being done. Only problem was that the volunteers were pretty sanctimonious, sort of like the old underground record store employees. Definitely too cool for a mere customer like me. 

[Bateshorn 9927]

9 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Expand on what you mean here.  Do you mean stuff like styrofoam and plastic packaging?  I think most of that gets filtered out, at least in Austin.  Not sure why it would be more harmful when it would end up in the landfill anyway.

The way most recycling works, is the "cleaner" the bundled recycling, post sort, the better the chance somebody will buy it.  Capturing Aluminum basically pays for everything else in the recycling process, especially since the Chinese no longer accept cardboard and paper.  So the price of the recaptured aluminum, to some degree, subsidizes everything else. 

With Plastics, only 1 & 2 are widely recycled (occasionally 5). so the first thing you want to do is never, ever, bother with 3,4, 6 or 7 (and probably 5).  Just don't. Throw that shit away. If the container isn't clearly marked, throw it away.  Separate the caps and toss them. Mixed materials are largely not recyclable.  Basically the more hourly workers have to hand sort that shit, likely the more expensive it is and the less somebody will want the post sort bale. Which means the landfill. 

Plastic bags are the fucking worse.  The absolutely gum up the machines in most facilities. Never, ever, ever, ever leave plastic bags in your single stream. Unless your community tells you to.  Most grocery stores will accept your bags.  But I encourage folks to get reusable bags and use them. Everytime. 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Biff Tannen 45684]

56 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The way most recycling works, is the "cleaner" the bundled recycling, post sort, the better the chance somebody will buy it.  Capturing Aluminum basically pays for everything else in the recycling process, especially since the Chinese no longer accept cardboard and paper.  So the price of the recaptured aluminum, to some degree, subsidizes everything else. 

With Plastics, only 1 & 2 are widely recycled (occasionally 5). so the first thing you want to do is never, ever, bother with 3,4, 6 or 7 (and probably 5).  Just don't. Throw that shit away. If the container isn't clearly marked, throw it away.  Separate the caps and toss them. Mixed materials are largely not recyclable.  Basically the more hourly workers have to hand sort that shit, likely the more expensive it is and the less somebody will want the post sort bale. Which means the landfill. 

Plastic bags are the fucking worse.  The absolutely gum up the machines in most facilities. Never, ever, ever, ever leave plastic bags in your single stream. Unless your community tells you to.  Most grocery stores will accept your bags.  But I encourage folks to get reusable bags and use them. Everytime. 

 

Great info.  This should be plastered on top of the city recycling bins. 

[Bateshorn 9927]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Great info.  This should be plastered on top of the city recycling bins. 

The American Chemistry Council spends a lot of money fighting community information programs like this. It breaks the myth that plastics are sustainable. 

[Trey3216 15346]

49 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

 

ExxonMobil has entered the chat: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/13/exxon-to-produce-lithium-for-electric-vehicles-in-arkansas.html

Interesting because Exxon isn't usually synonymous with sustainability or benevolent and voluntary ESG.

Oil companies own quite a bit of IP on sustainability, the bulk of it in fact.   

[InkaUtexas 25938]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Great info.  This should be plastered on top of the city recycling bins. 

And a lot clearer on plastic containers. 

My pet peeve is we get Pizza from a mom and pop. Their boxes say they are recyclable. City says no. so I guess there is no standard? 

[Bateshorn 9927]

Well, and there is an entirely separate conversation about where we need to be putting our work on critical materials.  Lithium is important, because we will need a lot of it, but the two biggest lithium producers in the world are Chili and Australia, which are free trade partners. 

My bigger question is whether we really ran the life cycle math on whether an immediate transition to EV was the best move, versus a wholesale move into plug in hybrids. 

[Biff Tannen 45684]

58 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

And a lot clearer on plastic containers. 

My pet peeve is we get Pizza from a mom and pop. Their boxes say they are recyclable. City says no. so I guess there is no standard? 

They are compostable.  Any food stained paper can go in the green compost bins.  Assuming you are in Austin.

[InkaUtexas 25938]

Nope, but thanks for the heads up. So should the marking be Compostable then? 

[Bateshorn 9927]

31 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Nope, but thanks for the heads up. So should the marking be Compostable then? 

That's another fun thing:  Industrial Compostable is very different from home compostable. 

[Brisketexan 105139]

2 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

That's another fun thing:  Industrial Compostable is very different from home compostable. 

Wait, man.....for all those paper products, it's like y'all never even heard of the Quick Cook grill!

 

It was endorsed and advertised by DICK FREAKIN' BUTKUS....although I can't find the ad that he was in.  I think it was on the beach.

ANYWAY.....don't try to recycle your pizza boxes and such, use them to grill delicious burgers that you can eat while wearing a neon swimsuit.

[Trey3216 15346]

22 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait, man.....for all those paper products, it's like y'all never even heard of the Quick Cook grill!

 

It was endorsed and advertised by DICK FREAKIN' BUTKUS....although I can't find the ad that he was in.  I think it was on the beach.

ANYWAY.....don't try to recycle your pizza boxes and such, use them to grill delicious burgers that you can eat while wearing a neon swimsuit.

Black Bikini at :15 is pretty nice to look at 

[tbone_ 14123]

Watched for 17 seconds. Can confirm.

[tomahawk dunk 338]

2 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Black Bikini at :15 is pretty nice to look at 

Thank you for your service!