Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[Al_4_ISU 12,530]

The remaining major characters have a lot of loose ends to tie up.  If they all live in the end, criticisms are valid, but at this point, with so much remaining human conflict unresolved, killing too many people off in the battle with the dead would provide no resolution.  This late in the game, a major death has to be a party to some kind of concluding of the story.  What's the point in a Tyrion/Jamie/Jon Snow/etc dying with 3 episodes left?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The remaining major characters have a lot of loose ends to tie up.  If they all live in the end, criticisms are valid, but at this point, with so much remaining human conflict unresolved, killing too many people off in the battle with the dead would provide no resolution.  This late in the game, a major death has to be a party to some kind of concluding of the story.  What's the point in a Tyrion/Jamie/Jon Snow/etc dying with 3 episodes left?

That's why I predicted 1 Tier-1 would die.  It would fit with the theme but give enough people to finish the story.  But yeah, there's more to go.  All this grousing could prove nonsense if there is a big war with Cersi coming up and all of our belief about them chickening out on real deaths is proved wrong when the Mountain bashes in Jaime's skull with Tyrion's skull.

[MissingInAction 25,304]

Headless zombie ned would be a sweet metal band name.

[Loco 3,754]

17 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Headless zombie ned would be a sweet metal band name.

Ned's head baby, Ned's head   

[Mileslong 4,747]

I would have liked to see more dragon on dragon action, more whites against main characters, more main characters doing smart things, and less mindless zombies.

In one paragraph you managed to write something hot, racist and insensitive to mentally challenged beings

[MoJames 8,256]

NSIAP

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by MoJames

[MoJames 8,256]

Also

[DanRydell 799]

This late in the game, a major death has to be a party to some kind of concluding of the story.  What's the point in a Tyrion/Jamie/Jon Snow/etc dying with 3 episodes left?

The point is that’s how life works. War is hell and death is almost always random and pointless.

[MoJames 8,256]

1 minute ago, DanRydell said:

The point is that’s how life works. War is hell and death is almost always random and pointless.

 

Well I have never seen anyone die in a war against undead in real life.

[Al_4_ISU 12,530]

4 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

 

The point is that’s how life works. War is hell and death is almost always random and pointless.

 

And there's a lot of war left.

[Chewbacca 7,793]

Does anyone know if Littlefinger is actually dead?  Saw a conspiracy video where he gave a coin to a girl in a farmhouse before his execution. Maybe we'll see him in King's Landing again.
 

So we are now saying Arya doesn't know how to cut someone's throat?

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,659]

I didn't have time to watch it until last night but I can't get past the Night King choking. That's a Bill Buckner / Ernest Byner / Blake Gideon level choke job. You're about to end humanity -- your one fucking purpose for gods knows how many thousand years -- you got the cripple one on one with thousands of your boys at your back, and then you let yourself get blindsided by some jumpy little bitch with quick hands and a switch blade? Biggest choke since Oilers v. Bills.

And for those of you complaining that not enough tier 1 players bit the dust in the battle and inconsistencies with the rest of the series... First, they killed the fucking NK. Granted there is no emotional attachment to him, but it's not like he wasn't the force behind half of the plot line in the entire series. If he isn't tier one enough for you, I don't know what to say. Secondly, forgive me if my memory is bad but I don't recall a ton of the main characters dying during the huge battle scenes. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody, but other than Ygritte, I can't really remember a main character dying in an actual battle scene. Typically, they just pile up a massive carnage of bodies and the main guys seem to survive. To that end, dying in battle isn't consistent with the hallmark surprising deaths in the show, it's more par for the course. That's what people do in those battles. They die. Where's the shock and drama in that? How anti-climactic would it have been for Jamie or Brienne to get killed by a horde of random zombies? 

As far as predictions go... I'm thinking that there is some variation of the Mountain taking out the Hound and Arya ends up killing the Mountain. Or the Mountain takes out Arya and the Hound takes out the mountain. 

[DanRydell 799]

And there's a lot of war left.

What does that have to do with your argument that every major character’s death has to have a point?

[Murfdogg21 4,483]

Sansa, Tyrion, and Hound vs. Zombie Ned, Kathryn, Robb, Rickon, and Lyanna Stark would have been epic. 

[smuggs 9,354]

24 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

How anti-climactic would it have been for Jamie or Brienne to get killed by a horde of random zombies? 

This is why it is frustrating that the white walkers were completely wasted. Brienne going down in 1-on-1 combat with a skilled WW swordsman would have been epically heartbreaking. And would have made Arya's takedown of the Night King that much sweeter.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by smuggs

[MoJames 8,256]

3 minutes ago, smuggs said:

This is why it is frustrating that the white walkers were completed wasted. Brienne going down in 1-on-1 combat with a skilled WW swordsman would have been epically heartbreaking. And would have made Arya's takedown of the Night King that much sweeter.

As you could tell, there were no skilled WW swordsmen.

[smuggs 9,354]

2 minutes ago, MoJames said:

As you could tell, there were no skilled WW swordsmen.

Ok?

 

[MoJames 8,256]

1 minute ago, smuggs said:

Ok?

Oh I thought you meant anyone actually involved in the fighting.

[Al_4_ISU 12,530]

26 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

 

What does that have to do with your argument that every major character’s death has to have a point?

 

In GOT, every major death has spurred a significant plot point.  Anyone can die, but every death has furthered the greater story.

Just having, say Jamie, randomly get killed by the Night King and that be it, would be out of character.  Every death has had a point.

[MissingInAction 25,304]

I hope the show references whatever the hell ghost got into and How he escaped.

[Al_4_ISU 12,530]

29 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I didn't have time to watch it until last night but I can't get past the Night King choking. That's a Bill Buckner / Ernest Byner / Blake Gideon level choke job. You're about to end humanity -- your one fucking purpose for gods knows how many thousand years -- you got the cripple one on one with thousands of your boys at your back, and then you let yourself get blindsided by some jumpy little bitch with quick hands and a switch blade? Biggest choke since Oilers v. Bills.

And for those of you complaining that not enough tier 1 players bit the dust in the battle and inconsistencies with the rest of the series... First, they killed the fucking NK. Granted there is no emotional attachment to him, but it's not like he wasn't the force behind half of the plot line in the entire series. If he isn't tier one enough for you, I don't know what to say. Secondly, forgive me if my memory is bad but I don't recall a ton of the main characters dying during the huge battle scenes. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody, but other than Ygritte, I can't really remember a main character dying in an actual battle scene. Typically, they just pile up a massive carnage of bodies and the main guys seem to survive. To that end, dying in battle isn't consistent with the hallmark surprising deaths in the show, it's more par for the course. That's what people do in those battles. They die. Where's the shock and drama in that? How anti-climactic would it have been for Jamie or Brienne to get killed by a horde of random zombies? 

As far as predictions go... I'm thinking that there is some variation of the Mountain taking out the Hound and Arya ends up killing the Mountain. Or the Mountain takes out Arya and the Hound takes out the mountain. 

Agreed.  2 of those 3 die battling with each other.  They might all die in the end, but Arya being caught up in Cleganebowl seems likely.

[MoJames 8,256]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

In GOT, every major death has spurred a significant plot point.  Anyone can die, but every death has furthered the greater story.

Just having, say Jamie, randomly get killed by the Night King and that be it, would be out of character.  Every death has had a point.

Yeah but I wanted someone to die that was important /whine

[gurt 754]

2 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I mean, this.

People are saying it was over too fast or the NK was defeated too easily?

Dude, all of humanity was lost.  The army of the dead was prime Mike Tyson invincible and they were cruising to a first round KO.  The only way to win was to get a single, perfect assassin to the NK himself.  In the end, it was his hubris that got them all killed, a classic motif in history and in fiction.  It ended the only way it could have.

They could have done a 4-week battle where every single person but Dany and Cersei died, then those two had a lesbian sex scene before fighting to the death naked in a tub of jello and some of y'all would be like, meh, I was expecting awesomer.

Nice strawman there.

All I was hoping for was some explanation to the NK.  The revisionist 'he is death' slogan people are saying ignores all the foreshadowing and back story we have gotten to this point, and is way overly simplistic.  All the different spirals we've seen over the seasons meant nothing, I guess.  It is clear the showrunners decided they'd rather do a cliche, simple ending than the one that has been lead up to in the preceding seasons.

[Dennis Taylor 19,042]

If the Night King just had to raise his arms to turn everyone that his swarms had just killed into more of his undead hordes, why didn't he just do that about every 5 minutes? 

 

 

[aggie08 21,584]

Because at no point was their any concern about the outcome of the battle.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,916]

If the Night King just had to raise his arms to turn everyone that his swarms had just killed into more of his undead hordes, why didn't he just do that about every 5 minutes? 
 
 

Hard to beat Jamie brienne tormund etc when they have infinite stamina

[Gene Parmesan 4,023]

5 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

If the Night King just had to raise his arms to turn everyone that his swarms had just killed into more of his undead hordes, why didn't he just do that about every 5 minutes? 

 

 

He didn't lose because he ran out of hordes.  He lost because he had to kill Bran himself and very slowly at that.  Every other aspect of the battle the NK dominated.  I mean winterfell was breached and overrun in a time frame of a few hours?

[Dennis Taylor 19,042]

4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

He didn't lose because he ran out of hordes.  He lost because he had to kill Bran himself and very slowly at that.  Every other aspect of the battle the NK dominated.  I mean winterfell was breached and overrun in a time frame of a few hours?

if he replenishes his hordes often enough the opposition would be overwhelmed and there would be no one left to defend Bran, the castle, or anything else. Theon et al could not have handled twice as many attackers for any length of time 

[DanRydell 799]

In GOT, every major death has spurred a significant plot point.  Anyone can die, but every death has furthered the greater story.
Just having, say Jamie, randomly get killed by the Night King and that be it, would be out of character.  Every death has had a point.

A person’s death can both be random and pointless while also being consequential.

[Gene Parmesan 4,023]

1 minute ago, Dennis Taylor said:

if he replenishes his hordes often enough the opposition would be overwhelmed and there would be no one left to defend Bran, the castle, or anything else. Theon et al could not have handled twice as many attackers for any length of time 

There was already no one left.  Every single person aside from Arya was on the verge of death with thousands of more hordes storming in.  Arya was in full ninja assassin mode.  He obviously didn't account for that, but lack of hordes wasn't the issue.  He was surrounded by his hordes when he died.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

16 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

if he replenishes his hordes often enough the opposition would be overwhelmed and there would be no one left to defend Bran, the castle, or anything else. Theon et al could not have handled twice as many attackers for any length of time 

There was noone left to defend Bran....in his eyes.

[MoJames 8,256]

10 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

A person’s death can both be random and pointless while also being consequential.

 

Seems GRRM wanted to tell a story though. And so far the deaths have served a purpose. Would be odd to break from that story telling.

[Pato del Muerto 52,877]

Viper proved that quickness and agility can take down the mountain, he just peacocked at he end and it cost him. Therefore, Arya is better equipped to kill mountain than hound trying to outmuscle him. 

Also will hound ever work through his fire issue?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[LonghornJudas 1,113]

The real downfall here was simply ego by the NK.

I got a funny feeling the story wasn't going to go my way, not just when Arya disappeared, but when he completely disregarded Jon Snow (which I totally enjoyed btw).

[MoJames 8,256]

Just now, LonghornJudas said:

The real downfall here was simply ego by the NK.

 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

10 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

There was noone left to defend Bran....in his eyes.

Yeah, I mean, he walked right up to Bran at a leisurely pace.   He didn't account for Arya, who he didn't know about, but wars are often decided by critical mistakes and impatience. 

[ABSR 5,327]

47 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

53 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

If the Night King just had to raise his arms to turn everyone that his swarms had just killed into more of his undead hordes, why didn't he just do that about every 5 minutes? 
 
 

Read more  

Hard to beat Jamie brienne tormund etc when they have infinite stamina

Hey, if you roll a 20 then you roll a 20.

[Saint Tacky 1,624]

 

20 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

The white walkers just hid behind the zombie army, then they stood around the Night King, then he got murdered by Arya and everyone instantly died.

Typical executive team

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

10 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Yeah, I mean, he walked right up to Bran at a leisurely pace.   He didn't account for Arya, who he didn't know about, but wars are often decided by critical mistakes and impatience. 

I know what you're getting at, but he walks up to a cripple and a eunich with a spear, it's over in his mind.  I'm not sure he knew about Arya.

[MoJames 8,256]

40 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

A person’s death can both be random and pointless while also being consequential.

 

Here's a bit more about the previous battles if you want to use GRRM and his style as a barometer.

S08E3 is the biggest battle so far, yet people are hitting it for the lack of important deaths, blaming showrunners for lack of writing quality and how GRRM would not have written like that.

GoT is a show that kills their major characters in small moments - not big ones.

Kindly recall all the 3 major Battles and the respective deaths of MAJOR good characters:

1. Battle of Blackwater - none.

2. Hardhome - none.

3. Battle of Bastards - none.

The show does not emphasize deaths on battles for our heroes, simply because the message being sent is how little things in their daily lives create ripples around them. It is what they do on those little events that causes their deaths, rather than fighting in a battle.

[Goredho 17,510]

4 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I mean, this.

People are saying it was over too fast or the NK was defeated too easily?

Dude, all of humanity was lost.  The army of the dead was prime Mike Tyson invincible and they were cruising to a first round KO.  The only way to win was to get a single, perfect assassin to the NK himself.  In the end, it was his hubris that got them all killed, a classic motif in history and in fiction.  It ended the only way it could have.

They could have done a 4-week battle where every single person but Dany and Cersei died, then those two had a lesbian sex scene before fighting to the death naked in a tub of jello and some of y'all would be like, meh, I was expecting awesomer.

Given your proposed outcome, I am going to change my opinion to "THIS EPISODE SUCKED!"
 

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Let’s story board this. Maybe in a twist, the “iron throne” is really the name of a Valyrian dildo. 

Kinda like steely dan. 

Who will sit on the Iron Sybian?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Goredho

[Nivek 17,038]

In the Battle of Clontarf the noble Mael Morda, King of Lenister and his Viking settlers faced a smaller but professional army of the oppressor and self-proclaimed high king brian boru.   The peaceful people of Lenister fought bravely and Mael Morda fell in battle and his army was defeated.  The fleeing farmers happens upon the haughty faux king and gave him divine justice before dispersing in the woods.    While Mael and his Viking compatriots sit at the right side of God and in Valhalla smiling at the goodness his country men share with the world (you know this elixir as Guiness and the harp symbol is our flag),  boru is a forgotten cunt whose failure is his legacy. 

-Nivek, should be Prince of Lenister, 2019.

[Sbbruin 21,912]

9 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

 

Typical executive team

Edited April 30, 2019 by Sbbruin

[Goo Punch 4,275]

23 minutes ago, LonghornJudas said:

The real downfall here was simply ego by the NK.

I got a funny feeling the story wasn't going to go my way, not just when Arya disappeared, but when he completely disregarded Jon Snow (which I totally enjoyed btw).

that wasn't ego, that was lazy, cliched writing. we  don't know enough about the NK to say that he even has an ego. Winterfell gets absolutely dominated, yet all of our heroes survive by each standing in one spot with their backs against the wall swinging wildly as thousands of undead soldiers attack, but then the army of the dead all end up dying anyway because the NK needed walk super slowly for no apparent reason, as a teenage girl sneaked past his entire legion of soldiers whose only job there is to protect him. This wasn't about some character motivation, it was just poor, poor, lazy writing. 

[MoJames 8,256]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

that wasn't ego, that was lazy, cliched writing. we  don't know enough about the NK to say that he even has an ego. Winterfell gets absolutely dominated, yet all of our heroes survive by each standing in one spot with their backs against the wall swinging wildly as thousands of undead soldiers attack, but then the army of the dead all end up dying anyway because the NK needed walk super slowly for no apparent reason, as a teenage girl sneaked past his entire legion of soldiers whose only job there is to protect him. This wasn't about some character motivation, it was just poor, poor, lazy writing. 

You built your entire argument on us not know enough about something?

[Sbbruin 21,912]

5 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

that wasn't ego, that was lazy, cliched writing. we  don't know enough about the NK to say that he even has an ego. Winterfell gets absolutely dominated, yet all of our heroes survive by each standing in one spot with their backs against the wall swinging wildly as thousands of undead soldiers attack, but then the army of the dead all end up dying anyway because the NK needed walk super slowly for no apparent reason, as a teenage girl sneaked past his entire legion of soldiers whose only job there is to protect him. This wasn't about some character motivation, it was just poor, poor, lazy writing. 

I won't be as extreme as this.  The writing was fine.  There are going to be some leaps of faith you have to make to accept some of the fantastical elements of the show.  But I will agree that the NK was way to nonchalant in his approach, if he was aware that one stick from dragon glass or Valerian steel could end it for him and his entire horde.  You would think he would be surrounded by WW's on all sides, who would defend him to the death, because if they didn't, they're dead anyway.

[Pato del Muerto 52,877]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

 You would think he would be surrounded by WW's on all sides, who would defend him to the death, because if they didn't, they're dead anyway.

[DanRydell 799]

I agree that major characters dying in battle really hasn’t been GoT’s style.

I’m one of those who thinks GoT is at its best when it’s people talking in rooms so I frankly find the battles to be the least interesting scenes that don’t involve the Night King/White Walkers/wights.

But upping the consequences of the Battle of Winterfell would have at least meant the Night King had some impact on the show and on these characters beyond simply an eight-season long MacGuffin to get these characters together.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

9 minutes ago, MoJames said:

You built your entire argument on us not know enough about something?

no, i built my argument on the fact that "the bad guy had the win wrapped up until he inexplicably stalled at the very very end" is played out trope that this show/episode should have been above using. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,410]

The Night King walks up to Bran and reaches for his sword. He lifts his nose in the air and sniffs. "Anyone else smell tuna?"