Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

54 minutes ago, Llano Estacado said:

That realism post should have been in Hank Scorpio font. Tongue was firmly in check.

It’s an epic TV drama set in a fantasy world. A wide audience tunes in. Some for dragons and magic. Some for character development and drama. Some for flaming swords and head crushing. But at the end it’s all a story we’re watching for entertainment. I like some of all of it.

I fully expect some angry tweets and posts after these last episodes about main characters “teleporting” across Westeros. There’s not enough time left to have more character development dialogue on boats and marches. Hence, Theon saying “alright you’re free now sister and a supporting character needs a redemption arc in winterfell.” Wormhole opens. Theons in the North some unknown days later “Okay I’m ready to die for the Starks and mankind now at the same location I was a turncoat”.

D&D lose 2 minutes of run time, but they gave the audience closer.

Yes, I want to know how Theon gotto Winterfell so swiftly and what he ate along the way.

[seven 1367]

The jetpacking is my favorite bitch topic. The royal family goes from kings landing to winterfell in a matter of 3 minutes in the pilot but suddenly in season 7/8 it's apparently show ruining. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

Just now, seven said:

The jetpacking is my favorite bitch topic. The royal family goes from kings landing to winterfell in a matter of 3 minutes in the pilot but suddenly in season 7/8 it's apparently show ruining. 

Remember the griping of Gendry running back from Antartica?

[Jerry Callo 8714]

4 minutes ago, seven said:

The jetpacking is my favorite bitch topic. The royal family goes from kings landing to winterfell in a matter of 3 minutes in the pilot but suddenly in season 7/8 it's apparently show ruining. 

The only thing that saved the pilot was the defenestration of Bran.

[Gene Parmesan 4008]

11 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

The only thing that saved the pilot was the defenestration of Bran.

That and boobs.

[Jerry Callo 8714]

6 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

That and boobs.

Well, that goes without saying.

[Goo Punch 4275]

51 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Remember the griping of Gendry running back from Antartica?

Yes, because it was stupid, and it happened to take place in an episode that is a great example how the show has not only fallen off, but at times fundamentally changed its MO during the latter seasons. The entire idea to capture one of those zombie soldiers and take it to Cersei was really really stupid and nonsensical to begin with, and the way they assembled some all-star A Team to go out and get it like it was the latest Avengers movie or something goes against what made this show great to begin with. And, of course, going with the theme of the change of MO during the later seasons, despite this being an absolutely insane mission with all odds stacked against them, aside from some faceless background characters and one D-list "main" character, everyone survived unharmed, Hollywood style.

You bringing up the criticism of that episode and that particular moment with total incredulity ("Can you believe that anyone would say anything critical about this show, ever?!") is par for the course from everyone in your contingent. Yes, many fans of the show were critical of that moment, and with many good reasons. Instead of ever engaging in any actual discussion about these issues, you guys just continue to get upset and ask why we even watch the show if we hate it so much. I'd ask you to consider taking a page from GoT and change your MO.

[CurlyDumps 4477]

1 hour ago, seven said:

The jetpacking is my favorite bitch topic. The royal family goes from kings landing to winterfell in a matter of 3 minutes in the pilot but suddenly in season 7/8 it's apparently show ruining. 

The pilot begins with the royal family arriving in Winterfell.  They don’t leave KL in the pilot.  

logistics, travel, etc was handled much better in the first 4 seasons when the writers had a detailed road map to follow. 

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

Lucky for the ranger party that when Jon killed the WW all of the undead fall except for one.  If none fell, they had their hands full.  If they all fell, they don’t have one before the balance of the army finds them and chases them onto the lake.

If they don’t have that thing and show it to Cersei, they wouldn’t have gotten the crown’s army to march up to help in winterfell!

wait, that still didn’t happen. 

Gendry’s marathon really isn’t a big deal compared to the only thing accomplished was losing a dragon to the other side.

 

[seven 1367]

4 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

The pilot begins with the royal family arriving in Winterfell.  They don’t leave KL in the pilot.  

logistics, travel, etc was handled much better in the first 4 seasons when the writers had a detailed road map to follow. 

No, Jaime and cersei are shown in king's landing next to Jon arryn's body (in the Sept). You're incorrect. A scene or two later they arrive in winterfell. 

[Jerry Callo 8714]

[CurlyDumps 4477]

7 minutes ago, seven said:

No, Jaime and cersei are shown in king's landing next to Jon arryn's body (in the Sept). You're incorrect. A scene or two later they arrive in winterfell. 

Ah, my bad. I dont remember that scene.  Pretty sure it doesnt show them taking off running on foot, though.

[77horn 216]

9 hours ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Yea Jon was screaming go go at the dragon

 

22 hours ago, BLKNSTY said:

On Jon yelling GOOO to Arya as he faces down the dragon, I can't confirm.

I re-watched it with subtitles on.

It said Jon: Yells

To me it sounded like "No!" or just a none word.  But if you wanted to heard "go", you could.

[52-80 19219]

No, he's yelling goo-urns.  Goo-urns

[Bone3421 716]

Just caught up in season 8...damn they got fucked up

Will be interesting to see how they beat cersi with 5 guys and 2 dragons...guessing just torch everything

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

6 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Ah, my bad. I dont remember that scene.  Pretty sure it doesnt show them taking off running on foot, though.

How long did it take them?  How long should it have taken them?  What do you disagree with?

7 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Yes, because it was stupid, and it happened to take place in an episode that is a great example how the show has not only fallen off, but at times fundamentally changed its MO during the latter seasons. The entire idea to capture one of those zombie soldiers and take it to Cersei was really really stupid and nonsensical to begin with, and the way they assembled some all-star A Team to go out and get it like it was the latest Avengers movie or something goes against what made this show great to begin with. And, of course, going with the theme of the change of MO during the later seasons, despite this being an absolutely insane mission with all odds stacked against them, aside from some faceless background characters and one D-list "main" character, everyone survived unharmed, Hollywood style.

You bringing up the criticism of that episode and that particular moment with total incredulity ("Can you believe that anyone would say anything critical about this show, ever?!") is par for the course from everyone in your contingent. Yes, many fans of the show were critical of that moment, and with many good reasons. Instead of ever engaging in any actual discussion about these issues, you guys just continue to get upset and ask why we even watch the show if we hate it so much. I'd ask you to consider taking a page from GoT and change your MO.

you worry about stupid, insignificant shit.  

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

6 hours ago, 77horn said:

 

I re-watched it with subtitles on.

It said Jon: Yells

To me it sounded like "No!" or just a none word.  But if you wanted to heard "go", you could.

Why would he yell no to the dragon?  

[Upgrayedd 5818]

53 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Why would he yell no to the dragon?  

Because it had him pinned down and he was frustrated that he couldn’t get around it?

[HenryJames 66144]

6 hours ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

you worry about stupid, insignificant shit.  

Surly motto tbh.

Edited May 4, 2019 by HenryJames

[Irish Wrist Watch 1397]

So here's a question: What happens next?

In the real world, seems like Cersei's army would march north to finish off what's left of the Winterfell bunch. I suspect instead that it will be our ragtag heroes marching on King's Landing. They'll split up of course, saving HBO time and money. A few will slip into KL for nefarious activities.

We should see some army/ship burning from the dragons. I think one more dragon goes down (or is already down), because with two it would be too easy to decimate the opposition. Besides, you can't have two of your stars riding around on dragons for half the show.

Predictions: no major characters are killed tomorrow night - unless it's Bran, who is worthless. Jon and Danaerys have a lover's spat. It would be interesting if they had sex one more time, knowing that they are brother and sister. Won't happen. Arya and Gendry do. Tyrion and Sansa grow closer. Jaime and Brienne grow closer - maybe they even kiss - time for Jaime to show Brienne who wears the pants in the family. The kiss leaves her weak-kneed. The Hound says something funny. (Totally wasted this season.)

And Bronn? Does he join Jaime, or pretend to join Jaime?

Edited May 4, 2019 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Jerry Callo 8714]

*Aunt and nephew

[hornian 5222]

22 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

So here's a question: What happens next?

In the real world, seems like Cersei's army would march north to finish off what's left of the Winterfell bunch. I suspect instead that it will be our ragtag heroes marching on King's Landing. They'll split up of course, saving HBO time and money. A few will slip into KL for nefarious activities.

We should see some army/ship burning from the dragons. I think one more dragon goes down (or is already down), because with two it would be too easy to decimate the opposition. Besides, you can't have two of your stars riding around on dragons for half the show.

Predictions: no major characters are killed tomorrow night - unless it's Bran, who is worthless. Jon and Danaerys have a lover's spat. It would be interesting if they had sex one more time, knowing that they are brother and sister. Won't happen. Arya and Gendry do. Tyrion and Sansa grow closer. Jaime and Brienne grow closer - maybe they even kiss - time for Jaime to show Brienne who wears the pants in the family. The kiss leaves her weak-kneed. The Hound says something funny. (Totally wasted this season.)

And Bronn? Does he join Jaime, or pretend to join Jaime?

Aunt and Nephew bro. This isn’t Veep. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by hornian

[cdain3 3454]

 

[Mileslong 4728]

Why would he yell no to the dragon?  

Because it had been a bad dragon...

[Pato del Muerto 52553]

Question:  am I correct that Tywin melted down ned’s sword and made 2 swords from it?  Brienne has one and Jaime the other?

I’m wondering if one of those swords kills Cersei. They spent a good minute or two of air time showing the melting/forging a few seasons ago. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

38 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Question:  am I correct that Tywin melted down ned’s sword and made 2 swords from it?  Brienne has one and Jaime the other?

I’m wondering if one of those swords kills Cersei. They spent a good minute or two of air time showing the melting/forging a few seasons ago. 

Season 4, episode one: "Two Swords". One of my favorite all time episodes, just an outstanding all around episode, peak GoT. Go back and watch that episode to see this show at its best. Go back and watch that episode and compare it to the last couple of seasons and there's no comparison at all. There aren't any huge battle scenes, 98% of the episode is dialogue driven, and most of it even takes place in dimly lit areas, including during a fight,  but because of superior writing, cinematography, and storytelling it's as compelling an episode as any i can remember. I seriously encourage anyone who's looking to go back and watch a great episode between new airings start with "Two Swords". 

And look, in defense of the more poor recent writing and episodes, i totally acknowledge that they have so much less to work with. GRRM has no material to give them, and now the entire focus of the show is on one thing, whereas in Two Swords we have all of the following going on:

-it starts with Tywin Lannister having the two swords forged and giving Jamie some badass lecturing 

-next we see Tyrion and Bronn awaiting Prince Oberyn's arrival, only to find out that he has already arrived and is currently making his presence known in Littlefinger's whore house

-Khaleesi is off with Ser Jorah, Sir Barriston Selmy, Daario Naharis, Grey Worm, and The Unsullied, still trying to find her way as a benevolent ruler who is also a conqueror with three scary ass dragons that can't be tamed

-then we have a scene between Tyrion, Sanda, and Shay

-another scene with Tyrion and Shay where we see one of Cersei's spies keeping notes 

-Jamie returns to Cersei who rejects him

-moving on, a meeting between the Wildlings and the Thens 

 

and thats only halfway through the episode. point being, i understand that the current writers are up against it, i just completely reject  the asinine notion that this show hasn't clearly  fallen off in its later seasons, and the whole "stop watching if you hate it so much" crowd needs to accept that. 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Jerry Callo 8714]

1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

Season 4, episode one: "Two Swords". One of my favorite all time episodes, just an outstanding all around episode, peak GoT. Go back and watch that episode to see this show at its best. Go back and watch that episode and compare it to the last couple of seasons and there's no comparison at all. There aren't any huge battle scenes, 98% of the episode is dialogue driven, and most of it even takes place in dimly lit areas, including during a fight,  but because of superior writing, cinematography, and storytelling it's as compelling an episode as any i can remember. I seriously encourage anyone who's looking to go back and watch a great episode between new airings start with "Two Swords". 

And look, in defense of the more poor recent writing and episodes, i totally acknowledge that they have so much less to work with. GRRM has no material to give them, and now the entire focus of the show is on one thing, whereas in Two Swords we have all of the following going on:

-it starts with Tywin Lannister having the two swords forged and giving Jamie some badass lecturing 

-next we see Tyrion and Bronn awaiting Prince Oberyn's arrival, only to find out that he has already arrived and is currently making his presence known in Littlefinger's whore house

-Khaleesi is off with Ser Jorah, Sir Barriston Selmy, Daario Naharis, Grey Worm, and The Unsullied, still trying to find her way as a benevolent ruler who is also a conqueror with three scary ass dragons that can't be tamed

-then we have a scene between Tyrion, Sanda, and Shay

-another scene with Tyrion and Shay where we see one of Cersei's spies keeping notes 

-Jamie returns to Cersei who rejects him

-moving on, a meeting between the Wildlings and the Thens 

 

and thats only halfway through the episode. point being, i understand that the current writers are up against it, i just completely reject  the asinine notion that this show hasn't clearly  fallen off in its later seasons, and the whole "stop watching if you hate it so much" crowd needs to accept that. 

 

Meh.

[Drew 2512]

Nah, I'm going to stick with the Stop Watching if you hate it defense.  My point being, the SAME people bitch about every episode the last 2 seasons, and are STILL bitching about it.  IF it were nearly as bad as you continue to claim, then you would have stopped watching.

[Goo Punch 4275]

is that a fact? every single person who's been critical of this season has also been critical of every episode of the last two seasons as well. sure.

if we hated the show we would stop watching it. we're still invested but have been disappointed with the first half of the final season of a show we love and are invested in. not to mention it's a final season we had to wait an eternity for. why our disappointment is so upsetting to so many, i haven't a clue. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Just went back and watched Two Swords myself. Great episode, with one of the best closing scenes of the entire series.

[Drew 2512]

5 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

is that a fact? every single person who's been critical of this season has also been critical of every episode of the last two seasons as well. sure.

if we hated the show we would stop watching it. we're still invested but have been disappointed with the first half of the final season of a show we love and are invested in. not to mention it's a final season we had to wait an eternity for. why our disappointment is so upsetting to so many, i haven't a clue. 

Disappointed my ass.  You've had so many long winded rants you can't claim that.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21919]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:07 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

They don’t give us a timeline. It could jump ahead a month for all we know. 

They should have just shown the trip in real time.  The entire first season could be the trip from KL to Winterfell.  Then the second season could have been the trip back with Ned as the hand.

Edited May 4, 2019 by NeverMarryAStripper

[idigTexas 2289]

2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

and thats only halfway through the episode. point being, i understand that the current writers are up against it, i just completely reject  the asinine notion that this show hasn't clearly  fallen off in its later seasons, and the whole "stop watching if you hate it so much" crowd needs to accept that. 

 

Say it again....oh wait, you already have, twice.  

Edited May 4, 2019 by idigTexas

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Say it again....oh wait, you already have, twice.  

and the fanboys have told me and everyone else who's been critical to stop watching the show and leave the thread just as many times if not more. it's an ongoing conversation, and you interjecting just to say this adds nothing. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Just finished S4E5, First of His Name, another good episode. Up next is Tyrion's trial. Can't wait. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1397]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

Just finished S4E5, First of His Name, another good episode. Up next is Tyrion's trial. Can't wait. 

That's one of the better ones.

[Goo Punch 4275]

this is supposedly the actress who plays Lyanna Mormont:

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Goo Punch

[HenryJames 66144]

Now I’m glad she died.

[Radical Larry 28659]

That’s not her.

[kingkoopa6 8377]

Don’t go looking for young Lyanna Stark IG.... still got another 2 years to go.... just sayin 

[hobbes2702 13051]

2 hours ago, Drew said:

Nah, I'm going to stick with the Stop Watching if you hate it defense.  My point being, the SAME people bitch about every episode the last 2 seasons, and are STILL bitching about it.  IF it were nearly as bad as you continue to claim, then you would have stopped watching.

People can love the show and think that the last two seasons have been a let down. That’s kinda the point. The expectations were placed very high because of the quality of previous seasons. The last two seasons have not lived up to those expectations. And frankly the last last episode was pretty shitty and easily the worst battle episode of the series other than maybe the beyond the wall episode.

[hobbes2702 13051]

On 5/3/2019 at 4:31 PM, seven said:

No, Jaime and cersei are shown in king's landing next to Jon arryn's body (in the Sept). You're incorrect. A scene or two later they arrive in winterfell. 

They also discuss that it took them 30 days to get there so I don’t see how that’s remotely similar to Gendry running 50 miles in one night.

[USC Traveler 488]

On 4/28/2019 at 4:46 PM, TexArcher said:

Okay, to those who didn't like it: what were you hoping for that you didn't get?  I'm not trying to be an asshole; I'm honestly curious.

There were several key deaths.  Jorah went out like we knew he would.  Theon got to redeem himself in a blaze of glory.  Lady Mormont died heroically.  We got the dragon aerial battle.  Arya got the ninja kill on the Night King.  The two hottest women on the show, Sansa and Dany are still alive.  The cinemtography, music, and tension were great.  

What did we miss out on?  What would've made you happier?

The best parts of the episode were the Arya/Hound/Beric/Red Witch sequence, Arya killing the NK, and the Little Bear going out like a boss vs the giant.  I'm with you there.

What would have made me much, much happier, though, is if D+D didn't make all of the main characters look so stupid.  I've been letting the bad writing go over and over the last few years, but this last episode burned off whatever last vestige of patience I had.  D+D  talked repeatedly about using the siege at Helm's Deep as a model in their preseason interviews. 

You know what the good guys didn't do at Helm's Deep ? They didn't put their entire fucking army OUTSIDE THE WALLS OF THE CASTLE!!! 

D+D have the characters literally forget their life experiences in pursuit of false drama. 

Ned Stark told his kids that 500 men could hold Winterfell against 10k. With a proper defensive strategy, that would have given them good odds vs the zombie horde, without even factoring in the dragons. 

D+D literally have all the Starks ignore this. And why wouldn't Tyrion (who successfully defended KL in a siege), Jamie (who has taken castles by siege), Ed, Beric or anyone else with a brain speak up about the fact that the entire army was outside of the castle to start the battle ? 

It was a complete joke that threw me out of the story, as it made every person in the planning room look like an idiot.

The worst amongst them being Jon. He knows the NK and his army better than anyone, and he successfully defended Castle Black in the exact same circumstance when they were massively outnumbered vs the Wildling army. Why did Jon forget all of the lessons he learned that night ? Use the fortifications for protection to even the odds. Where were the barrels of oil to pour fire down on the dead from the walls of the castle ? Where were heaps of dragonglass shrapnel that could have been launched at the zombies ? 

Why was anyone except the Dothraki outside of the castle at all ? 

We saw in the Loot Train attack that the Dothraki can shoot arrows effectively while at full gallop. But we didn't see one Dothraki archer in this battle. So instead of using their bows to weaken the zombies from a distance and using their horses to stay out of reach of the zombies, we get the entire Dothraki making a headlong, unsupported charge against an unseen enemy that we know is endlessly deep and isn't going to break out of fear. AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE DRAGONGLASS WEAPONS ?  


The answer to all of this stupidity is that D+D feel the need to create false drama. We saw it in BOtB, the Frozen Lake Battle and again with this episode. D+D put the good guys in a position where things are absolutely hopeless and then save them via Deus-ex Machina. But instead of making things great, it takes the reality and consequences out of the show.  


All anyone has to do is watch Two Towers (or the defense of Jerusalem in Kingdom of Heaven) to know that you can have all the excitement and tension you ever wanted as the defenders use smart strategies and tactics to fight against overwhelming odds on a more even footing. You're worried about the heroes, but you're cheering for them because they're smart and valiant, and there is some hope of victory.  D+D think you have to eliminate any hope of victory to make it dramatic, but that's where these episodes become ridiculous cartoons, as none of the truly important characters die, despite hopeless odds fighting hand to hand and literally everyone around them dying as the zombie horde overruns the home team. 

It's the difference between a heavyweight classic like Ali-Frazier or Ali-Foreman vs Mike Tyson steamrolling a patsy in the first round. One has great ebbs and flows and endless tension. The other is a joke. I can't believe these guys used Helm's Deep as a model and gave us the steaming turd of a battle that we got, where these guys have their main characters ignore/forget their had-earned life experiences.
 

If you asked me after the end of S4, I'd have said GOT was the greatest tv show ever made. 

Now ? No way. D+D are so out of their league that it's slowly killing the show. 

Their need to create false drama has turned GOT into a parody of what it once was, as the characters we want to root for act utterly and completely stupid. In S1-S4, people doing stupid things die.  Now ?  They just move on to the next idiotic plan where all hope will be lost until  they're  miraculously saved.

 

My expectations for the last few episodes are very low, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

Edited May 4, 2019 by USC Traveler
clarity

[USC Traveler 488]

On 4/29/2019 at 11:30 AM, wild_turkey said:

That's one of my bigger gripes about the episode. Would've really like to see some one-on-one combat with the main good guys and the main white walkers. The white walkers just hid behind the zombie army, then they stood around the Night King, then he got murdered by Arya and everyone instantly died.

I would've rather seen Brienne or Jaime or Tormund fighting those guys directly than see Brienne and Jaime constantly overwhelmed by impossible odds yet magically living through with only a few scratches.

Agreed.  It would have been much better to see ebbs and flows in the battle, where the good guys have moments, like taking out some WWs and big chunks of the zombies dying as a result, only to then have a setback when the NK blows a hole in the wall and the horde starts to pore through.

 

Instead, it's a complete demolition that our main characters somehow miraculously survive unharmed.

[HenryJames 66144]

1 hour ago, USC Traveler said:

The best parts of the episode were the Arya/Hound/Beric/Red Witch sequence, Arya killing the NK, and the Little Bear going out like a boss vs the giant.  I'm with you there.

What would have made me much, much happier, though, is if D+D didn't make all of the main characters look so stupid.  I've been letting the bad writing go over and over the last few years, but this last episode burned off whatever last vestige of patience I had.  D+D  talked repeatedly about using the siege at Helm's Deep as a model in their preseason interviews. 

You know what the good guys didn't do at Helm's Deep ? They didn't put their entire fucking army OUTSIDE THE WALLS OF THE CASTLE!!! 

D+D have the characters literally forget their life experiences in pursuit of false drama. 

Ned Stark told his kids that 500 men could hold Winterfell against 10k. With a proper defensive strategy, that would have given them good odds vs the zombie horde, without even factoring in the dragons. 

D+D literally have all the Starks ignore this. And why wouldn't Tyrion (who successfully defended KL in a siege), Jamie (who has taken castles by siege), Ed, Beric or anyone else with a brain speak up about the fact that the entire army was outside of the castle to start the battle ? 

It was a complete joke that threw me out of the story, as it made every person in the planning room look like an idiot.

The worst amongst them being Jon. He knows the NK and his army better than anyone, and he successfully defended Castle Black in the exact same circumstance when they were massively outnumbered vs the Wildling army. Why did Jon forget all of the lessons he learned that night ? Use the fortifications for protection to even the odds. Where were the barrels of oil to pour fire down on the dead from the walls of the castle ? Where were heaps of dragonglass shrapnel that could have been launched at the zombies ? 

Why was anyone except the Dothraki outside of the castle at all ? 

We saw in the Loot Train attack that the Dothraki can shoot arrows effectively while at full gallop. But we didn't see one Dothraki archer in this battle. So instead of using their bows to weaken the zombies from a distance and using their horses to stay out of reach of the zombies, we get the entire Dothraki making a headlong, unsupported charge against an unseen enemy that we know is endlessly deep and isn't going to break out of fear. AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE DRAGONGLASS WEAPONS ?  


The answer to all of this stupidity is that D+D feel the need to create false drama. We saw it in BOtB, the Frozen Lake Battle and again with this episode. D+D put the good guys in a position where things are absolutely hopeless and then save them via Deus-ex Machina. But instead of making things great, it takes the reality and consequences out of the show.  


All anyone has to do is watch Two Towers (or the defense of Jerusalem in Kingdom of Heaven) to know that you can have all the excitement and tension you ever wanted as the defenders use smart strategies and tactics to fight against overwhelming odds on a more even footing. You're worried about the heroes, but you're cheering for them because they're smart and valiant, and there is some hope of victory.  D+D think you have to eliminate any hope of victory to make it dramatic, but that's where these episodes become ridiculous cartoons, as none of the truly important characters die, despite hopeless odds fighting hand to hand and literally everyone around them dying as the zombie horde overruns the home team. 

It's the difference between a heavyweight classic like Ali-Frazier or Ali-Foreman vs Mike Tyson steamrolling a patsy in the first round. One has great ebbs and flows and endless tension. The other is a joke. I can't believe these guys used Helm's Deep as a model and gave us the steaming turd of a battle that we got, where these guys have their main characters ignore/forget their had-earned life experiences.
 

If you asked me after the end of S4, I'd have said GOT was the greatest tv show ever made. 

Now ? No way. D+D are so out of their league that it's slowly killing the show. 

Their need to create false drama has turned GOT into a parody of what it once was, as the characters we want to root for act utterly and completely stupid. In S1-S4, people doing stupid things die.  Now ?  They just move on to the next idiotic plan where all hope will be lost until  they're  miraculously saved.

 

My expectations for the last few episodes are very low, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

[McCroskey 1505]

I like how some people take this stuff so seriously.

I do have one question, shouldn't Drogon's fire have melted the Night King's ice spear?

Edited May 5, 2019 by McCroskey

[hornimal 80]

5 hours ago, USC Traveler said:

The best parts of the episode were the Arya/Hound/Beric/Red Witch sequence, Arya killing the NK, and the Little Bear going out like a boss vs the giant.  I'm with you there.

What would have made me much, much happier, though, is if D+D didn't make all of the main characters look so stupid.  I've been letting the bad writing go over and over the last few years, but this last episode burned off whatever last vestige of patience I had.  D+D  talked repeatedly about using the siege at Helm's Deep as a model in their preseason interviews. 

You know what the good guys didn't do at Helm's Deep ? They didn't put their entire fucking army OUTSIDE THE WALLS OF THE CASTLE!!! 

D+D have the characters literally forget their life experiences in pursuit of false drama. 

Ned Stark told his kids that 500 men could hold Winterfell against 10k. With a proper defensive strategy, that would have given them good odds vs the zombie horde, without even factoring in the dragons. 

D+D literally have all the Starks ignore this. And why wouldn't Tyrion (who successfully defended KL in a siege), Jamie (who has taken castles by siege), Ed, Beric or anyone else with a brain speak up about the fact that the entire army was outside of the castle to start the battle ? 

It was a complete joke that threw me out of the story, as it made every person in the planning room look like an idiot.

The worst amongst them being Jon. He knows the NK and his army better than anyone, and he successfully defended Castle Black in the exact same circumstance when they were massively outnumbered vs the Wildling army. Why did Jon forget all of the lessons he learned that night ? Use the fortifications for protection to even the odds. Where were the barrels of oil to pour fire down on the dead from the walls of the castle ? Where were heaps of dragonglass shrapnel that could have been launched at the zombies ? 

Why was anyone except the Dothraki outside of the castle at all ? 

We saw in the Loot Train attack that the Dothraki can shoot arrows effectively while at full gallop. But we didn't see one Dothraki archer in this battle. So instead of using their bows to weaken the zombies from a distance and using their horses to stay out of reach of the zombies, we get the entire Dothraki making a headlong, unsupported charge against an unseen enemy that we know is endlessly deep and isn't going to break out of fear. AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE DRAGONGLASS WEAPONS ?  


The answer to all of this stupidity is that D+D feel the need to create false drama. We saw it in BOtB, the Frozen Lake Battle and again with this episode. D+D put the good guys in a position where things are absolutely hopeless and then save them via Deus-ex Machina. But instead of making things great, it takes the reality and consequences out of the show.  


All anyone has to do is watch Two Towers (or the defense of Jerusalem in Kingdom of Heaven) to know that you can have all the excitement and tension you ever wanted as the defenders use smart strategies and tactics to fight against overwhelming odds on a more even footing. You're worried about the heroes, but you're cheering for them because they're smart and valiant, and there is some hope of victory.  D+D think you have to eliminate any hope of victory to make it dramatic, but that's where these episodes become ridiculous cartoons, as none of the truly important characters die, despite hopeless odds fighting hand to hand and literally everyone around them dying as the zombie horde overruns the home team. 

It's the difference between a heavyweight classic like Ali-Frazier or Ali-Foreman vs Mike Tyson steamrolling a patsy in the first round. One has great ebbs and flows and endless tension. The other is a joke. I can't believe these guys used Helm's Deep as a model and gave us the steaming turd of a battle that we got, where these guys have their main characters ignore/forget their had-earned life experiences.
 

If you asked me after the end of S4, I'd have said GOT was the greatest tv show ever made. 

Now ? No way. D+D are so out of their league that it's slowly killing the show. 

Their need to create false drama has turned GOT into a parody of what it once was, as the characters we want to root for act utterly and completely stupid. In S1-S4, people doing stupid things die.  Now ?  They just move on to the next idiotic plan where all hope will be lost until  they're  miraculously saved.

 

My expectations for the last few episodes are very low, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

tl;dr

j/k

 

further upstream george parmesan (I think) theorized that they had to sacrifice nearly their entire army to draw out the night king.  

 

here's a question I haven't seen posed:

where did melisandre come from? she rode from the same direction the dothraki eventually went all leeroy jenkins towards, how did she part the wights? did she?

[Bone3421 716]

I like how some people take this stuff so seriously.
I do have one question, shouldn't Drogon's fire have melted the Night King's ice spear?

Do you even magic spear, bro
That shit shatters any sword/weapon it touches besides valyrian steel

[Haphap 742]

1 hour ago, hornimal said:

tl;dr

j/k

 

further upstream george parmesan (I think) theorized that they had to sacrifice nearly their entire army to draw out the night king.  

 

here's a question I haven't seen posed:

where did melisandre come from? she rode from the same direction the dothraki eventually went all leeroy jenkins towards, how did she part the wights? did she?

The soldiers are facing North. And she likely arrived from the south probably via White Harbour.   She probably can’t get through anywhere except the front with the dug up trench surrounding winterfell. So she went around the left flank

Edited May 5, 2019 by Haphap

[DDD Dad 14346]

The soldiers are facing North. And she likely arrived from the south probably via White Harbour.   She probably can’t get through anywhere except the front with the dug up trench surrounding winterfell. So she went around the left flank

But when did she go to the bathroom?