Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[Irish Wrist Watch 1472]

ANother take on the death of Jaime and Cersei. It reminded me of a trend a number of years back when at the end of the season for a number of TV serials, one or two of the main characters would meet an uncertain end, so that they could be written out of the series should contract negotiations go south during the off season. It made the actors a little more flexible in their salary demands.

 

One thing Hollywood does with highly successful movies - they make sequels. I don't see HBO letting this series go entirely. It may take a year or two to work out the details, but by giving the couple a dubious end, they've left the door open to a return of the queen. You see some rubble move, next thing you know, Cersei is standing up dusting herself off. She miraculously survived! And Jaime has healed sufficiently to row a boat! With one hand!

[Mac8111 2129]

Oh for fuck sakes

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 Cersei blowing up the Temple looks tame compared to what Dany did.

[Loco 3754]

RIP all the Starbucks in King's Landing

9 hours ago, GottaB said:

Still wish there was a mess of young dragons that joined the fight born when the dragons were away.

I never could figure out why Dany didn't go round up more dragon eggs.  They said they were expensive and rare implying there are others.

8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So I guess Bronn is really up shit creek.

His little speech to the Brothers Lanister foreshadowed Dany's little jaunt.   Wouldn't surprise me if he ended up with her...  she has a thing for sell swords

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

41 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Her mother died giving birth to her.

Her father was murdered, stabbed in the back by his sworm protector, Jamie Lannister

Her eldest brother Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar's wife and children were murdered by the Lannisters during the sack of King's Landing. 

The Lannisters forced her and her brother to flee across the Narrow sea to Pentos. 

She was sold to a foreign horse worshipper who basically rapes her on her wedding night. 

Her baby was stillborn. Her husband died 

The Lannisters try to kill her again

Cersei promises to send troops to help with Night Walkers, doesn't. 

Cersei/Euron kill one of her dragons with Scorpion arrows. 

Cersei cuts the head off her best friend Meisandre. 

 

Yeah....just flipped the switch there. 

 

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Anyone who _____ hasn’t been paying attention.  

[Hank Kingsley 21622]

Well summarized by Sepinwall: 

It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/game-of-thrones-review-bells-sepinwall-834528/

[Murfdogg21 4554]

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY FROM KINGS LANDING!

[Irish Wrist Watch 1472]

The Hound is like: "You think you want this. So half your family was brutally murdered - I have a shitty brother who burned my face resulting in a severe shortage of snatch my whole life. Now git."

Arya: "Gee, thanks, coach. I think I'll go find some woman and her kid huddling is a seemingly safe spot with a bunch of other people, and drag them out into the street where a dragon is roasting the shit out of everybody. Toodaloo."

[Guest]

Why is there no magic?  red woman was the last sorcerer?  IMO this is the laziest writing of all.

Bran storyline is still lackluster as hell when the balance of the kingdoms is at hand.  Hodor died for this fuck?

Cersei, if she survived, Brienne, and Dany could all have offspring that take the story forward.  That seems the least of our, the viewers', concerns right now. 

The real question is why anyone would follow Dany, breaker of chains but ignorer of rightful heirs to the Throne...why is the truth such a threat?

[Irish Wrist Watch 1472]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well summarized by Sepinwall: 

It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/game-of-thrones-review-bells-sepinwall-834528/

The producers needed a reason to kill Dany in the final episode. They didn't want to face death threats for the next ten years from die-hard Dany fans. I thought they did a pretty good job of justifying her flip out.

[Horn80 6313]

Thought episode last night was much better than the NK episode.  Think next week may begin with a big twist.  Be hilarious if Dany roasts Jon and everyone else and sits on the thrown at the end with all this talk about her dying,

Edited May 13, 2019 by Horn80

[Neonmoon 38130]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well summarized by Sepinwall: 

It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/game-of-thrones-review-bells-sepinwall-834528/

I guess they weren't paying attention to the past 7 seasons. There is plenty of evidence. 

GRRM made you like a woman who would burn anyone who didn't bend the knee because it was usually against terrible people. Now she killed "innocents" and everyone is crying because they didn't think she was capable. 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Neonmoon

[crash_davis 23465]

i'm astounded that there are people who like and defend this season, but then i remember that there were and are people who like and defend the last jedi as a good movie.  nostalgia sure is powerful.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

As bad as this season is, it’s still entertaining television 

[maninblack 7975]

58 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Her mother died giving birth to her.

Her father was murdered, stabbed in the back by his sworm protector, Jamie Lannister

Her eldest brother Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar's wife and children were murdered by the Lannisters during the sack of King's Landing. 

The Lannisters forced her and her brother to flee across the Narrow sea to Pentos. 

She was sold to a foreign horse worshipper who basically rapes her on her wedding night. 

Her baby was stillborn. Her husband died 

The Lannisters try to kill her again

Cersei promises to send troops to help with Night Walkers, doesn't. 

Cersei/Euron kill one of her dragons with Scorpion arrows. 

Cersei cuts the head off her best friend Meisandre. 

 

Yeah....just flipped the switch there. 

And yet she didn't show once the tendency of being "Mad"

[maninblack 7975]

14 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well summarized by Sepinwall: 

It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/game-of-thrones-review-bells-sepinwall-834528/

Accurate

[utee94 16071]

7 hours ago, Fat Bastard said:

Some way or another the Dothraki and Unsullied need to leave Westeros either by boat or on a funeral pyre by the end of next week. No way that’s happening unless somehow Snow turns the dragon on them. 

 

I have a feeling the new seat of government will likely be in the north and there won’t be any more dragons in Westeros (save for a few unhatched eggs they show somewhere on a fadeout)

 

5 hours ago, wutang75 said:

 

 

Ok - the episode is about them taking her out. What about the unsullied and Dothraki? They follow her - how do you take them out? If she gets killed, you still have to take care of them somehow.


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10 minutes ago, slorch said:

Why is there no magic?  red woman was the last sorcerer?  IMO this is the laziest writing of all.

Bran storyline is still lackluster as hell when the balance of the kingdoms is at hand.  Hodor died for this fuck?

Cersei, if she survived, Brienne, and Dany could all have offspring that take the story forward.  That seems the least of our, the viewers', concerns right now. 

The real question is why anyone would follow Dany, breaker of chains but ignorer of rightful heirs to the Throne...why is the truth such a threat?

Bran is a skinchanger.  It's entirely possible he could warg into Drogon and make it take out the dothraki and the unsullied if necessary.  Perhaps Dany too, but I think it more likely that pissed-off Arya gets to her first.

[Hank Kingsley 21622]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

I guess they weren't paying attention to the past 7 seasons. There is plenty of evidence. 

GRRM made you like a woman who would burn anyone who didn't bend the knee because it was usually against terrible people. Now she killed "innocents" and everyone is crying because they didn't think she was capable. 

 

I watched every episode. When the bells rang and Dany was staring menacingly at the Red Keep, it made complete sense for her to fly over their and burn Cersei into a crisp. 

There is zero character anecdotal evidence that justifies her calculatingly, row by row, street by street, making sure not to miss a single area of King's Landing, murder innocent women and children. 

I don't have a problem with the actual result of Dany turning into The Mad Queen. How we got there is the biggest issue. 

 

[TwiceHorn 32008]

My problem with the show is the wild inconsistency.  For maybe four seasons, it had a fairly brilliant mixture of intelligent drama and gratuitous violence. 

For the last four, it has veered drunkenly between mediocre drama (either glacially slow or predictable, or both) and gratuitous violence.

I'm not big on this type of fantasy as a general proposition.  If the show had started out like it's finishing up, I never would have gotten into it, and I'd venture that few others would either.

[Burt Macklin 19222]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Her mother died giving birth to her.

Her father was murdered, stabbed in the back by his sworm protector, Jamie Lannister

Her eldest brother Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar's wife and children were murdered by the Lannisters during the sack of King's Landing. 

The Lannisters forced her and her brother to flee across the Narrow sea to Pentos. 

She was sold to a foreign horse worshipper who basically rapes her on her wedding night. 

Her baby was stillborn. Her husband died 

The Lannisters try to kill her again

Cersei promises to send troops to help with Night Walkers, doesn't. 

Cersei/Euron kill one of her dragons with Scorpion arrows. 

Cersei cuts the head off her best friend Meisandre. 

 

Yeah....just flipped the switch there. 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I guess they weren't paying attention to the past 7 seasons. There is plenty of evidence. 

GRRM made you like a woman who would burn anyone who didn't bend the knee because it was usually against terrible people. Now she killed "innocents" and everyone is crying because they didn't think she was capable. 

 

First off, most of that had already happened before She got anywhere near Westeros and she didn’t act like this in Essos. She didn’t burn down all of Myreen.

Dany has always been ruthless to those she believes deserve it, but cares about the innocent. Last night, that all went out the window with little, if any, real character development to lead her to that point.

Killing the surrendered Lannister soldiers and then flying up the Red Keep and killing Cersei would’ve been within her character and accomplished verything they needed to set up Jon turning on her. If anything, it would’ve been way better becuase Jon, Tyrion, and others still might’ve had some internal conflict about the decision to overthrow her. Now it’s just obvious and unquestionable decision with no suspense leading up to it.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[Burt Macklin 19222]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

My problem with the show is the wild inconsistency.  For maybe four seasons, it had a fairly brilliant mixture of intelligent drama and gratuitous violence. 

For the last four, it has veered drunkenly between mediocre drama (either glacially slow or predictable, or both) and gratuitous violence.

I'm not big on this type of fantasy as a general proposition.  If the show had started out like it's finishing up, I never would have gotten into it, and I'd venture that few others would either.

Yep. From a macro-storytelling perspective and micro-detail perspective.  Dragons are easy to kill in episode 4 but impossible to kill in episode 5. Dragon fire doesn’t explode castles in episode 3, but it can cut a parapet of the Red Keep in half and explode through the outer wall of king’s Landing in episode 5.

If dragon fire just explodes everything in it’s path, then why didn’t Jon die at the end of episode 3, when he’s hiding behind a 3 foot high stone wall?

on and on the list of huge inconsistencies go. 

[alincoln 2390]

8 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Nah.  You may feel that way.   I’m betting more don’t.  

Drew?

[BabaYaga 15535]

3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

fuck whoever wrote that. fuck them in the asshole with a soldering iron. that is indefensible; inexplicable; inexcusable. if you gave me a million guesses i would never correctly guess what compelled D+D to do that. Shame. Shame. 

That was both bad and painfully predictable.  "World crumbling around her....blah....blah....blah". 

Danny turning into the Mad Queen.  Who didn't see that coming...

Jon realizing he made a mistake.  Quite the zinger.  

"Good" army becomes "bad" army.....morality hangs in the balance.....just blow me....

I think what is making this last season almost unwatchable is you see the admission by the writers and the evidence in the story lines of how damn artsy, archetypal, and "deep"....Jesus D&D, just stop.  You know what makes a good story?  Great writing.  Twists.  Turns.  Development of characters and plot lines.  Not half the show illustrating "the perspective" of a raging dragon from the street up.  

So now we have our Mad Queen.  All our "heroes" realize their mistake....and kill her.  The end.  Quite the cliffhanger there.  

Oh, and Bron - the most overrated character in the history of television.  Will someone just wheel him off a cliff and be done with it.  What is the point anymore.  The complete lack of development at this point is too far gone.  Even if he worgs with Drogon who eats Danny ass first in front of her army won't make up for it...

[Eskimohorn 5677]

I think that cersei's death was more in keeping with the show than any of the crap we saw in the previous four episodes. Just like nobody predicted how Ned would die or the events of the Red Wedding, everybody was assuming that she would have some horrible death with Justice being served. In the end, it was still pretty horrible for her to watch everything she had worked so hard for crumble around her and to die along with her incestuous love of her life and her unborn child. A quick beheading or stabbing wouldn't have allowed her to see all of her plans get burned up in the matter of about a half hour.

The Lannister-Stark conflict ended with Walter Frey’s assassination. Pitiful. Cersei has barely interacted with any of her enemies in years. While the ultimate death may have been keeping, the lack of conflict is one reason why this is more like Transformers-Walking Dead than GOT.

We got to see a Walking Dead fight with the Hound and the Mountain zombie, who shared 2-3 scenes ever. And Jaimie and Euron. Who cares?

At the end of the day, this is a pacing issue where we got to see 3 episodes of zombie hunt, and 2 episodes each of the Battle of KL and WF, and now only one episode of Stark/Tygareon.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

18 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I guess they weren't paying attention to the past 7 seasons. There is plenty of evidence. 

GRRM made you like a woman who would burn anyone who didn't bend the knee because it was usually against terrible people. Now she killed "innocents" and everyone is crying because they didn't think she was capable. 

 

When did she previously holocaust a bunch of women and children who had just surrendered to her?  I don't remember anything like that, and it's a pretty big leap from killing enemy soldiers who refused to surrender. 

[Jerry Callo 8956]

Any chance that Dany going mad is the result of poison administered at Varys' behest?  Dany went from fine ass Breaker of Chains to Flowers in the Attic pretty fast.   I think Varys was on the small counsel when the Mad King went mad?

[TexArcher 38847]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Her mother died giving birth to her.

Her father was murdered, stabbed in the back by his sworm protector, Jamie Lannister

Her eldest brother Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon. Rhaegar's wife and children were murdered by the Lannisters during the sack of King's Landing. 

The Lannisters forced her and her brother to flee across the Narrow sea to Pentos. 

She was sold to a foreign horse worshipper who basically rapes her on her wedding night. 

Her baby was stillborn. Her husband died 

The Lannisters try to kill her again

Cersei promises to send troops to help with Night Walkers, doesn't. 

Cersei/Euron kill one of her dragons with Scorpion arrows. 

Cersei cuts the head off her best friend Meisandre. 

 

Yeah....just flipped the switch there. 

 

 

And she was betrayed by Jon and Tyrion.

She's been through a lot of shit recently, but she's also shown signs of being a tyrant-in-the-making the whole time.  She'll make you love her if she can, and if not then she'll make you fear her, but either way, you're going to bend the knee.  Even when she heard Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, at no point did she even consider co-ruling with the man she allegedly loves.  She immediately told him to suppress it, even though he'd already sworn fealty to her.

She's always wanted the Iron Throne at all costs.  And we've always excused her brutality as "well, it's in the name of something bigger; it's collateral damage," and it was happening to Lannisters and slavers, so it was okay.

I think an interesting question here is why do we only see the humanity some of the time?  Obviously those were innocents in KL and we feel for them.  Why didn't we feel for the Lannister soldiers in the caravan that got barbecued last season?  They were fathers and husbands and sons, too.  Their deaths caused suffering to regular folks in KL, too.  And did they really have a choice in joining that army?  So how are they that much different from the slaves she freed (when she needed an army)?  We cheered when that caravan burned, but now we mourn the deaths in KL and decide Dany's a monster, when really her actions have been pretty consistent the whole time.  Bend the knee, or die.

 

[BabaYaga 15535]

12 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

Any chance that Dany going mad is the result of poison administered at Varys' behest?  Dany went from fine ass Breaker of Chains to Flowers in the Attic pretty fast.   I think Varys was on the small counsel when the Mad King went mad?

Vary's always wanted what was best for the realm.  While there is meat there for a good/great writer to expand upon - it's too late.  The writers boxed themselves in with the number of shows and now are taking a machete to giant brambles of plot holes.  Hacking away clumsily and hoping visual CGI explosions distract the watcher.  Having the writers do a post-op explanation just mirrors Walking Dead.  If you have to explain why you did something - you did it poorly.  

[NOMAAA 1699]

she didnt break the wheel, she burnt the mf'er to a crisp. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

28 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Killing the surrendered Lannister soldiers and then flying up the Red Keep and killing Cersei would’ve been within her character and accomplished verything they needed to set up Jon turning on her. If anything, it would’ve been way better becuase Jon, Tyrion, and others still might’ve had some internal conflict about the decision to overthrow her. Now it’s just obvious an dunwuestionable. 

I also thought the heel turn was going to be more subtle so that people had to argue about whether she should be on the throne.  But this sets up conflict too because the whole unsullied army turned too.  Could still work out. 

[Rougarou 594]

Yea, the real tragedy has been this is a show I watch while answering emails and doing work on the computer with the show in the background now. Used to command my undivided attention. 

[BabaYaga 15535]

3 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I think an interesting question here is why do we only see the humanity some of the time?  Obviously those were innocents in KL and we feel for them.  Why didn't we feel for the Lannister soldiers in the caravan that got barbecued last season?  They were fathers and husbands and sons, too.  Their deaths caused suffering to regular folks in KL, too.  And did they really have a choice in joining that army?  So how are they that much different from the slaves she freed (when she needed an army)?  We cheered when that caravan burned, but now we mourn the deaths in KL and decide Dany's a monster, when really her actions have been pretty consistent the whole time

Probably for the same reason people view the fire bombings of Dresden or the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki differently from attacks on strategic targets.  This episode would be akin to a pilot who lost their family/friends to the Japanese, receive a recall order mid-flight that the Emperor surrendered....and dropped the bomb anyway out of rage/hate.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

And she was betrayed by Jon and Tyrion.

She's been through a lot of shit recently, but she's also shown signs of being a tyrant-in-the-making the whole time.  She'll make you love her if she can, and if not then she'll make you fear her, but either way, you're going to bend the knee.  Even when she heard Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, at no point did she even consider co-ruling with the man she allegedly loves.  She immediately told him to suppress it, even though he'd already sworn fealty to her.

She's always wanted the Iron Throne at all costs.  And we've always excused her brutality as "well, it's in the name of something bigger; it's collateral damage," and it was happening to Lannisters and slavers, so it was okay.

I think an interesting question here is why do we only see the humanity some of the time?  Obviously those were innocents in KL and we feel for them.  Why didn't we feel for the Lannister soldiers in the caravan that got barbecued last season?  They were fathers and husbands and sons, too.  Their deaths caused suffering to regular folks in KL, too.  And did they really have a choice in joining that army?  So how are they that much different from the slaves she freed (when she needed an army)?  We cheered when that caravan burned, but now we mourn the deaths in KL and decide Dany's a monster, when really her actions have been pretty consistent the whole time.  Bend the knee, or die.

 

But they did bend the knee.   That's what the bell ringing was.   And the issue is not that there is just a logical distinction between enemy soldiers and women/children civilians.  It's that Dany has always shown that women/children civilians are important to her, until now.  And she showed no regard for even her own troops, many of whom were undoubtedly roasted along with everyone else.  She nearly killed Arya.  That is also not in keeping with her history.   In fact, her motivation for blowing up the plan in the battle against the NK was that she couldn't bear to see her soldiers slaughtered while she stood idly by.   Now she's frying them up herself. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Probably for the same reason people view the fire bombings of Dresden or the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki differently from attacks on strategic targets.  This episode would be akin to a pilot who lost their family/friends to the Japanese, receive a recall order mid-flight that the Emperor surrendered....and dropped the bomb anyway out of rage/hate.

Even worse than that — it would be if that pilot were next in line to become Emperor, and nonetheless decided to nuke the place that had just become his.   Dany blew up her own castle, after it was handed to her! 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[alincoln 2390]

 

4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

She's been through a lot of shit recently, but she's also shown signs of being a tyrant-in-the-making the whole time.  She'll make you love her if she can, and if not then she'll make you fear her, but either way, you're going to bend the knee.  Even when she heard Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, at no point did she even consider co-ruling with the man she allegedly loves.  She immediately told him to suppress it, even though he'd already sworn fealty to her.

She's always wanted the Iron Throne at all costs.  And we've always excused her brutality as "well, it's in the name of something bigger; it's collateral damage," and it was happening to Lannisters and slavers, so it was okay.

I think an interesting question here is why do we only see the humanity some of the time?  Obviously those were innocents in KL and we feel for them.  Why didn't we feel for the Lannister soldiers in the caravan that got barbecued last season?  They were fathers and husbands and sons, too.  Their deaths caused suffering to regular folks in KL, too.  And did they really have a choice in joining that army?  So how are they that much different from the slaves she freed (when she needed an army)?  We cheered when that caravan burned, but now we mourn the deaths in KL and decide Dany's a monster, when really her actions have been pretty consistent the whole time.  Bend the knee, or die.

Nah.  She went from killing enemy combatants and leaders and those who betrayed her to the ones she had spent 8 seasons swearing to protect because The Mountain beheaded her interpreter and Jon Snow wouldn't kiss her.  The KL battle was won by her and her Dragon.  The city had surrendered.  She was the liberator of KL and would have been viewed as such by its inhabitants.  The Southerners don't give a fuck about presumed bastard Jon Snow defeating the Boltons or his heroic actions around the Wall and Winterfell that they would likely dismiss as a fairy tale.  It would have made much more sense if Dany simply destroyed the Red Keep and used her KL liberator status to turn the South against the North with the series ending with Jon Snow being beheaded in front of the baying KL mob.

[The University 852]

 

[Burt Macklin 19222]

7 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I also thought the heel turn was going to be more subtle so that people had to argue about whether she should be on the throne.  But this sets up conflict too because the whole unsullied army turned too.  Could still work out. 

Sure but with the skills they've shown Arya to have, I'm not sure how there can be much conflict. If Arya decides Dany should die, then Dany will die. Maybe the hardest part is figuring out how to kill Drogon, because I assume Drogon will go apeshit and kill everyone if he learns they killed Dany/Dany is dead, but I still think this is a way worse ending.

Internal conflict of Jon deciding if he has to kill Dany because she slaughtered surrendered soldiers (and Dany may possibly be pregantn with his child, even the show hasn't alluded to that in a while) > conflict between Westerors forces and Dany's forces. 

 

 

[alincoln 2390]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Sure but with the skills they've shown Arya to have, I'm not sure how there can be much conflict. If Arya decides Dany should die, then Dany will die. Maybe the hardest part is figuring out how to kill Drogon, because I assume Drogon will go apeshit and kill everyone if he learns they killed Dany/Dany is dead, but I still think this is a way worse ending.

 Internal conflict of Jon deciding if he has to kill Dany because she slaughtered surrendered soldiers (and Dany may possibly be pregantn with his child, even the show hasn't alluded to that in a while) > conflict between Westerors forces and Dany's forces. 

Drogon may perceive that Jon is the true heir and refuse to turn on him and his allies.  Silly but this is D&D we are talking about.

[Goredho 17633]

5 hours ago, wutang75 said:

 

 

Ok - the episode is about them taking her out. What about the unsullied and Dothraki? They follow her - how do you take them out? If she gets killed, you still have to take care of them somehow.


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Lol, I could be wrong.  But after last night, there would be zero people in Westeros that want to be ruled by Dany.  All of Westeros > Dothraki and unsullied.  The dragon is the biggest issue, imo.

This episode really went heavy on symbolism and allegory.  Hound follows hatred and revenge to his doom by his biggest fear (fire).  Arya let’s go of hatred and revenge to find life.  The scene paralleling their journey, him to his death, her to her deliverance after that choice was fantastic.  Cersei’s story is basically that of Ozymandias — the rubble of King’s Landing are her mighty works. Dany has now become worse than Cersei, worse even than the mad king.  She has chosen the fire of hatred, revenge and greed, slaughtered tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocents and now... 

Finishing that sentence is the last episode.  Given how hatred, revenge, the lust for power, etc... have been rewarded thus far, I don’t think Dany wins to rule happily-ever-after.  Of the players left, Dany embodies the darker side of human nature.  The Starks, especially with Arya’s turn away from hatred and revenge, embody the noble aspects of humanity.

The show may suck at resolving that meta conflict.  The writers may fuck it up.  I am sure it would have been better if there was GRRM-source material to go by all the way to the story’s conclusion..  But I personally give D&D some credit.  They are doing something never done before.  Never attempted before.  On TV.  Taking it to it’s end while having to coordinate thousands to pull it off whereas GRRM only had to coordinate his mind.

Is the show perfect?  Absolutely not, but there has never been anything like it before, and there may never be anything like it again.  When this is gone, we will be left with the slate of reality TV, laugh-tracked sitcoms and tropey-dramas.  I, for one, will mourn Game of Throne’s passing.

 

[BabaYaga 15535]

2 minutes ago, alincoln said:

She was the liberator of KL and would have been viewed as such by its inhabitants.  The Southerners don't give a fuck about presumed bastard Jon Snow defeating the Boltons or his heroic actions around the Wall and Winterfell that they would likely dismiss as a fairy tale.  It would have made much more sense if Dany simply destroyed the Red Keep and used her KL liberator status to turn the South against the North with the series ending with Jon Snow being beheaded in front of the baying KL mob.

I really hope that's not the line of thinking the writers are going for.  She's going to use "fear" at it's extreme, and do something so horrific people can't imagine challenging her will.

Almost like her dragon, similar to a giant space station (it's not a moon), could destroy entire cities (or planets), so that nobody would dare defy her........sigh.......

Uh, oh....here comes Danny.  Better hide and do what she says.....

[DigglerontheHoof 21527]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Sure but with the skills they've shown Arya to have, I'm not sure how there can be much conflict. If Arya decides Dany should die, then Dany will die. Maybe the hardest part is figuring out how to kill Drogon, because I assume Drogon will go apeshit and kill everyone if he learns they killed Dany/Dany is dead, but I still think this is a way worse ending.

Internal conflict of Jon deciding if he has to kill Dany because she slaughtered surrendered soldiers (and Dany may possibly be pregantn with his child, even the show hasn't alluded to that in a while) > conflict between Westerors forces and Dany's forces. 

 

 

Starks kill Danny, Drogon goes ape shit, kills er'body, burns Westeros and Essos; Planet of the Dragons!!!

[ChickenSandwich 9925]

1 hour ago, Horn80 said:

Thought episode last night was much better than the NK episode.  Think next week may begin with a big twist.  Be hilarious if Dany roasts Jon and everyone else and sits on the thrown at the end with all this talk about her dying,

She has to roast John now. His retreat is from her. She has proven nothing will stop her from the throne and he is the last legit threat. Nope. Can’t live. 

Head on a stick like uncle outside the gates, Ayra/Sansa crying hidden in the crowd. 

[Burt Macklin 19222]

5 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Drogon may perceive that Jon is the true heir and refuse to turn on him and his allies.  Silly but this is D&D we are talking about.

Yeah, I have a feeling they're going for something like this even though it doesn't really make sense. Regardless of whether Jon is the true heir or half Targ, Dany is Drogon's mom. Seems like that should trump the other factors, but I'm sure D&D have written a scene that doesn't add up and we'll be forced to accept it anyways.

[maninblack 7975]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, I have a feeling they're going for something like this even though it doesn't really make sense. Regardless of whether Jon is the true heir or half Targ, Dany is Drogon's mom. Seems like that should trump the other factors, but I'm sure D&D have written a scene that doesn't add up and we'll be forced to accept it anyways.

Not that D&D need a license to fuck it more than they already have but this would totally be some dumb ass shit they try to force down our throats

[Eskimohorn 5677]

She has to roast John now. His retreat is from her. She has proven nothing will stop her from the throne and he is the last legit threat. Nope. Can’t live. 
Head on a stick like uncle outside the gates, Ayra/Sansa crying hidden in the crowd. 

Any army that didnt retreat would surely have died. Oh, the unsullied and dathroki had activated their beacons as they intermingled with the citizens who were indiscriminately being torched. Sure.

[seven 1368]

Dany has been threatening to burn cities to the ground since early season 2. She's always been talked out of it. Anyone paying attention should not at all be surprised this happened after euron killed her dragon and then was provoked even further by killing missendei. The show has been preparing for this for a long time, a lot of you seem to have just never noticed. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

My guess

Dany puts Tyrion on trial. John intervenes. Greyworm fights Jon. He kills Greyworm. Dany gets her Dragon all ready to burn him and the north people. Bran wargs the dragon and flies away. Jon kills Dany. 

[BabaYaga 15535]

14 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Starks kill Danny, Drogon goes ape shit, kills er'body, burns Westeros and Essos; Planet of the Dragons!!!

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]