Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[Gene Parmesan 4005]

I don't mind them all of a sudden going storm trooper with the scorpions.  In reality it would probably be a one in a million shot with how fast he moves and how limited those things would be.  So this battle is probably more like what would happen if a dragon existed with medieval technology.   

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

I don't mind them all of a sudden going storm trooper with the scorpions.  In reality it would probably be a one in a million shot with how fast he moves and how limited those things would be.  So this battle is probably more like what would happen if a dragon existed with medieval technology.   

Cloud cover and she was expecting them.

[BabaYaga 15290]

8 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Cloud cover and she was expecting them.

Or heaven forbid she just attack at night

[smuggs 9353]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Or heaven forbid she just attack at night

I don't want to have to fuck with my TV settings again.

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

50 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

He didn't sell out.  He did what he believed was in the best interests of the realm, he just had more faith in Dany than Varys did.  

He did what was in the best interests of his siblings. He lobbied Dani to demand surrender first, to spare Cersei. Then that didn’t work, and Jaime showed up, so he freed Jaime to find Cersei, get her to surrender, then have them slip out the back. 

Tyrion’s loyalty to Jaime makes sense, but why should he care at this point about saving cersei’s life?  She treated him like shit his whole life and most recently sent bronn to kill him. 

That motivation never made sense, even in conjunction with sparing the people in kings landing. 

[Gene Parmesan 4005]

10 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Cloud cover and she was expecting them.

They made it too easy in episode 4 making it seem like it was a super weapon.  Obviously that was criticized heavily.  Given what we've seen how a dragon can move and destroy killing them when they aren't in battle mode would be your only chance.  I get wanting consistency but nothing known to man is taking out a dragon when he's at full attention.

[Pig Bellmont 8713]

32 minutes ago, alincoln said:

In addition, the spoilers (which I haven't read and provide that the final ending will be highly disappointing) were evidently accurate for Episode 5.

Cut this shit out

[TommyGufano 6021]

10 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Cloud cover and she was expecting them.

Her not anticipating them being there is yet another failure on the part of her small council. Either just saying "hey. head's up -- they're going to expect you to go back to Dragonstone." Or better yet her master of whispers having intel that decidedly informs her that Euron's fleet is there.

Since Dany headed west, it's been a series of idiotic machinations formulated by the small council and followed through by Dany that led us here. Rather than arriving at consequences that were dictated by actions in line with characters developed over 6 seasons, they determined the consequences (Dany's mad turn; perceived of evening of playing field between Cersei and Dany (right up until Drogon is actually back to being unstoppable)) and forced out-of-character actions (everyone is an idiot now) to arrive there. 

[McCroskey 1504]

I kinda feel bad for all the goth moms who named their daughters khaleesi or Daenerys  over the last 7 years . 

I don't think this episode is why those little girls will all end up on stripper poles.

These might just be the best back to back posts in the thread.

Bravo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BabaYaga 15290]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

He did what was in the best interests of his siblings. He lobbied Dani to demand surrender first, to spare Cersei. Then that didn’t work, and Jaime showed up, so he freed Jaime to find Cersei, get her to surrender, then have them slip out the back. 

Tyrion’s loyalty to Jaime makes sense, but why should he care at this point about saving cersei’s life?  She treated him like shit his whole life and most recently sent bronn to kill him. 

That motivation never made sense, even in conjunction with sparing the people in kings landing. 

Caring for a sibling and the welfare of hundreds of thousands of innocent people are not mutually exclusive.  Two birds.  One stone.  All that.  Like Vary's, he cares for the welfare for the people.  The eunuch, the dwarf, and the bastard - apparently the only ones with the perspective to see what needs to be done beyond the betterment of their own station.  Little overplayed, but apparent.  

[Pig Bellmont 8713]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Not necessarily disagreeing with your main point, but I don’t think she just snapped in the moment.  Grey Worm and the Unsullied pretty clearly had a take no prisoners directive.  They started massacring the soldiers after they surrendered before the civilian torching began, didn’t they?  (Maybe I’m not remembering the sequence right).

I got the impression she made up her mind earlier in the episode, or even at the end of the last episode, that this was going to happen.   At a minimum it happened by the time she told Jon, “Alright, I’ll rule by fear then.”

She just needed to get laid. I blame Jon for the murderous rampage. 

[BabaYaga 15290]

15 minutes ago, smuggs said:

I don't want to have to fuck with my TV settings again.

Dragon-Predator-Thermal Vision enabled....lets roll.  

[PilotsError 2287]

9 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Her not anticipating them being there is yet another failure on the part of her small council. Either just saying "hey. head's up -- they're going to expect you to go back to Dragonstone." Or better yet her master of whispers having intel that decidedly informs her that Euron's fleet is there.

Since Dany headed west, it's been a series of idiotic machinations formulated by the small council and followed through by Dany that led us here. Rather than arriving at consequences that were dictated by actions in line with characters developed over 6 seasons, they determined the consequences (Dany's mad turn; perceived of evening of playing field between Cersei and Dany (right up until Drogon is actually back to being unstoppable)) and forced out-of-character actions (everyone is an idiot now) to arrive there. 

 

Literally the scene before was them talking about Euron's fleet.  They had pieces on the chess board and everything.  She knew, but according to D&D she forgot.

[RomaVicta 29905]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Or heaven forbid she just attack at night

A night attack on the fleet after it leaves Dragonstone would have been visually sensational and actually make sense.

Dany's rage is not hard for me to swallow. Besieged cities that do not capitulate have often been looted and put to the sword as punishment. The people who swarmed into the Red Keep arguably had a choice about what to do. They could have fled the city.

Dany learns that Westeros is not a shining prize. It's a festering pustule of betrayal and ambition. She saves Westeros from the dead and she gets none of the love she got for freeing the slaves in the East. Gentle Messeindre articulates this when she says dracarys. This place isn't worth saving.

Dany had it better and was better loved in the East which is near to Vallerya. I wonder if she will return there and leave someone else to rule in Westeros. 

Who knows?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just to clarify, when I say corrupted what I mean is compromised in relation to Tyrion and Jaime.  Corrupted bad actors do things for approximately five different reasons:

Compromised

Revenge

Ideology 

Money

Ego 

The bad guys in this story are all driven by one or more of these motivations.  

Jon Snow hasn’t fallen prey to being completely compromised by Dany yet but he’s close.  Varys tried to give him an out in good faith but he rejected it because he isn’t motivated by malicious ambition which is precisely why he is “the one”.

[Horn of Gabriel 1614]

30 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so i've read several people on here make references to cersei's death not only being ok, but somewhat expected because of grrm's trollish way he fucks with the audience/readers and twists things around.  the tradition of this show is that a lot of people die, often when you don't quite expect it - and they're often times good, noble, and likable characters.

but there has also been a long and steady trend of unlikable characters getting their just desserts and dying in a very satisfying way for the viewer.

off the top of my head:

ramsey - loses battle, eaten by his own rabid, hungry dogs

joffrey - chokes to death at wedding in front of everyone

walder frey - killed by arya in front of whole family and his men

the night king - has battle won, but gets stabbed by arya sneak attack

 littlefinger - great character, but ultimately evil, double-crossed by his own attempted double-cross, throat slit by arya

the mountain - assuming he's dead, epic battle with his brother where they both die

the high sparrow (what a terrible part of this tv show) - gets blowed up along with everyone he cares about

 

i'm sure there are more examples, but the bad guys get theirs in this tv show.  the good guys often do too, but we always get to see it.  the cersei death (assuming she's dead, which i'm not completely sold on) was poorly executed and ultimately unsatisfying no matter who you're rooting for.

i'm getting really tired of a twisty type of show getting a free pass on anything the viewers may not like just by saying, "well, that's how this show has always been lulz, you're just not very good at paying attention to what was perfectly obvious."

if things have to be explained on "inside the episode" featurettes, then it's because they fucked something up.  not because i'm not a sophisticated enough television viewer.

This post perfectly encapsulates the no-win situation the producers are in.  Have a "traditional" or "villain" death for Cersi, where she gets slain by Dany, Arya, or Jon, and I guarantee that there will be dozens of posts here that are variations on the theme of "OMG!  What a cliché death, of course the hero kills the villain, lazy writing D&D!  GRRM would never have done that, he'd give us a twist!" ...OTOH, they kill Cersi in a non-traditional way and we get posts like this about how unsatisfying her death was.

I was pretty happy with her death.  She's a bully who when faced with her imminent demise and no more get-out-of-jail-free cards, broke the facade of toughness she put on and became the insecure, quivering mass we suspected her to be underneath.  Plus there was the irony of her world literally crumbling around her, and they literally dropped the Red Keep - the embodiment of everything she worked towards - on her head.  It was that which she sought, her hubris that killed her off.  

Jamie dying with her was a good conclusion to his arc.  If he had turned "hero," and gone to the good side everyone here would be bitching about traditionalism and hero's journey, etc.  He had a slight turn toward the good with his battle for the living, but in the end couldn't deny himself, and went back to his comfort zone in Cersi.  It rang true for me because it's his weakness, and ultimately led to his death.

[BabaYaga 15290]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Gentle Messeindre articulates this when she says dracarys.

I think that was just a stay-strong farewell knowing she was going to die...but was too idiotic to realize Cersie was standing right flipping next to her so grab her ass and swan dive together!

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

This post perfectly encapsulates the no-win situation the producers are in.  Have a "traditional" or "villain" death for Cersi, where she gets slain by Dany, Arya, or Jon, and I guarantee that there will be dozens of posts here that are variations on the theme of "OMG!  What a cliché death, of course the hero kills the villain, lazy writing D&D!  GRRM would never have done that, he'd give us a twist!" ...OTOH, they kill Cersi in a non-traditional way and we get posts like this about how unsatisfying her death was.

Except this isn't true for virtually any of the other many villain deaths in the show.  Why would it be true for Cersei?  There were plenty of ways to give her a satisfying death like all of the other villains. 

[TexArcher 37774]

3 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

But they did bend the knee.   That's what the bell ringing was.   And the issue is not that there is just a logical distinction between enemy soldiers and women/children civilians.  It's that Dany has always shown that women/children civilians are important to her, until now.  And she showed no regard for even her own troops, many of whom were undoubtedly roasted along with everyone else.  She nearly killed Arya.  That is also not in keeping with her history.   In fact, her motivation for blowing up the plan in the battle against the NK was that she couldn't bear to see her soldiers slaughtered while she stood idly by.   Now she's frying them up herself. 

Good points.

Maybe part of the point with Dany, if she was good but then snapped, is that it's a fine line between killing for the right reasons and killing for more power once someone gets used to killing in the first place.

Or, maybe the point is on us: once we excuse killing for the right reasons, we make it easier for a tyrant to rise then start killing for the wrong reasons.

Either way, I feel that people calling this a "flip" with Dany are missing the point.  It's not a flip.  It's just the next part of her arc.  Whether it's a huge leap or not depends on whether you believe she was ever good and noble in the first place or whether she was always going to burn King's Landing either way.  

I think it will be fascinating to rewatch from the beginning knowing what we know now.  I have a feeling the "Holy shit, she was always gonna be a tyrant and she just knew exactly what to say to get people like Tyrion, Jorah, Varys, and Jon on her side" theory is gonna look pretty solid.

Edited May 13, 2019 by TexArcher

[Murfdogg21 4412]

Come on, Bran. Time to redeem your character’s existence by warging into the dragon and biting that bitch’s head off!

[High Plains Drifter 11036]

Biggest let down was that there wasn't even a battle.

 

Have an actual battle that starts to go against Jon et al. Have Theon's sister show up and engage the fleet, and lose. Jon gets wounded, which sets off Dany and Drogon. They go full Hulk Smash on KL.

 

Next episode, everybody confronts Dany on letting Drogon get out of control, fight ensues (Unsullied + Dathraki + Drogon vs  the northmen). At the climax to the battle, Drogon refuses to burn Jon and flies off with Dany on his back, back to Slaver's Bay. Unsullied stop fighting when their queen flees, Dothraki (how the fuck are there even any Dothraki left, I thought they all got killed by the NK's army) fight to the death.

 

Tyrion ends up on the throne.

[utee94 15812]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Good points.

Maybe part of the point with Dany is that it's a fine line between killing for the right reasons and killing for more power once someone gets used to killing in the first place.

Or, maybe the point is on us: once we excuse killing for the right reasons, we make it easier for a tyrant to rise then start killing for the wrong reasons.

Either way, I feel that people calling this a "flip" with Dany are missing the point.  It's not a flip.  It's just the next part of her arc.  Whether it's a huge leap or not depends on whether you believe she was ever good and noble in the first place or whether she was always going to burn King's Landing either way.

I think there was enough evidence established over multiple seasons, that she was a defender of the weak and oppressed-- and especially women-- that it was strongly against her nature to slaughter an entire city's worth of them.  That's what people are struggling with, and I think it's a legitimate criticism of the writing.

[henrygandorf 29189]

5 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

This post perfectly encapsulates the no-win situation the producers are in.  Have a "traditional" or "villain" death for Cersi, where she gets slain by Dany, Arya, or Jon, and I guarantee that there will be dozens of posts here that are variations on the theme of "OMG!  What a cliché death, of course the hero kills the villain, lazy writing D&D!  GRRM would never have done that, he'd give us a twist!" ...OTOH, they kill Cersi in a non-traditional way and we get posts like this about how unsatisfying her death was.

I was pretty happy with her death.  She's a bully who when faced with her imminent demise and no more get-out-of-jail-free cards, broke the facade of toughness she put on and became the insecure, quivering mass we suspected her to be underneath.  Plus there was the irony of her world literally crumbling around her, and they literally dropped the Red Keep - the embodiment of everything she worked towards - on her head.  It was that which she sought, her hubris that killed her off.  

Jamie dying with her was a good conclusion to his arc.  If he had turned "hero," and gone to the good side everyone here would be bitching about traditionalism and hero's journey, etc.  He had a slight turn toward the good with his battle for the living, but in the end couldn't deny himself, and went back to his comfort zone in Cersi.  It rang true for me because it's his weakness, and ultimately led to his death.

ok, then how about dany burns the scorpions, and some soldiers - the rest throw down their swords.  looks like cersei is beaten, and dany will take the throne.

then, qyburn is sent down to meet [who caress] to discuss a surrender.  on his way down, he encounters arya and the hound.  cutaway to cover something else.  then, qyburn comes back up, and explains to cersei that she needs to do go down and prepare to have her head chopped off, as she gives up power for the first time.  this doesn't seem right, because she wanted to surrender, and as she's confused about it, qyburn rips his face off, and it's arya, and she jabs needle into her midsection, ensuring a slow death.  she turns to the mountain, who takes his helmet off, and it's the hound.  she's fucked, and she knows it, as she's dying.  arya says, "end of list, ho."

then dany, off her dragon, makes her way to cersei and to see the iron throne in person for the first time (i assume it's completely destroyed now, sweet writers, thanks!).  she discovers arya did her dirty work for her, because jon is the true heir, not her, and the people will support him.  this enrages dany who storms off like a child (consistent with her behavior), and this can still set up a final showdown of starks/jon snow vs dany, if that's the way the fat man always wanted it.

(i just thought of that fanfic, i'm sure i could do a better job with more thought and some outlining and blow or something).

but no.  instead, we spend 8 years with cersei as the enemy.  that's the buildup.  then, after a shitty death (basically an offscreen death, similar to syrio's).  we get one episode left where i guess we're supposed to hate dany and root for jon?  i guess that's the big twist, that dany was the real bad guy, and cersei was a red herring?

it's totally ok if that's what they were going for.  shitty writing happens in tv and movies every day.  but i think we have every right to bitch about it.

[TommyGufano 6021]

14 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

 

Literally the scene before was them talking about Euron's fleet.  They had pieces on the chess board and everything.  She knew, but according to D&D she forgot.

A. scene before was literally Jon saying his goodbyes and leaving Winterfell

B. This is the extent to which Euron's fleet is noted:  Varys: "The Golden Company has arrived in King's Landing courtesy of the Greyjoy fleet" Jon: "If the Iron Fleet tries to ferry in more food, the dragons will destroy them." And the kraken piece on the map stays on King's Landing; it isn't moved to Dragonstone.

So if any sort of warning was given, it wasn't on screen. Now if you're going to say that in a scene not shown someone told her "hey, Dragonstone is the obvious place for you to arrive before mounting your siege on the capital. AND we've been hearing about the construction of big crossbows like the one that wounded Drogon in "the loot train attack" (only bigger) and they're mounting them on ships, stay frosty out there" and then Dany just forgot (nevermind that she still should have noticed them with or without any advanced warning of their existence), then that speaks to my second point that the writers are making the characters behave stupidly to accommodate the outcomes they need.

 

[HenryJames 66043]

 

[bschoolprof 6252]

I know this was discussed a little bit above, but what was the point, narratively, of Bron's small storyline this year?  Cersei is dead now, and so is Jaime, so the bounty is meaningless, right?  Why even include it in this season?  Misdirection or incompetence?  

Edited May 13, 2019 by bschoolprof

[FondrenRoad 4378]

11 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Except this isn't true for virtually any of the other many villain deaths in the show.  Why would it be true for Cersei?  There were plenty of ways to give her a satisfying death like all of the other villains. 

The other villains were short term.  Cersei has been a consistent villain since the first episode.  I found her death more satisfying than a revenge killing would have been.

Dany's heel turn also isn't completely out of character.  She could have ruled over paradise in Essos.  Its the homeland of all her armies and subjects so they'd all be happy as shit drinking wine and eating grapes.  Instead she dragged all of them to a frozen hellscape to fight zombies, all so she could take over a throne that none of her subjects care about on a continent they had never even been to before.  Really, all their deaths in Westeros are her fault.  She was bound to snap.  Still, the complete lack of compassion is probably a little too far. She's always been a narcissist, but she's never been incompassionate.

[Gene Parmesan 4005]

4 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

I know this was discussed a little bit above, but what was the point, narratively, of Bron's small storyline this year?  Cersei is dead now, and so is Jaime, so the bounty is meaningless, right?  Why even include it in this season?  Misdirection or incompetence?  

I'm guessing, but he's a fan favorite so they wanted him in there at some capacity, but he wasn't onboard with any crazy filming demands, so we got a half assed attempt at a story.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

I know this was discussed a little bit above, but what was the point, narratively, of Bron's small storyline this year?  Cersei is dead now, and so is Jaime, so the bounty is meaningless, right?  Why even include it in this season?  Misdirection or incompetence?  

Technically, Tyrion was the one that promised Bron Highgarden if Dany wins.  Jaime had no power to offer anything from either queen.  As the hand of the queen, Tyrion's offer should still be good.  Although the chance of it being addressed at all in the final episode is almost zero.

[Fozzz 152]

On 4/15/2019 at 1:00 PM, closetojumping said:

Holy fuck. The nerd idiocy here sometimes is stunning. Bran isn't becoming the fucking Night King. Dany Targaryan isn't going to become the Mad Queen. Just fucking stupid.

lmao

[LonghornSean 3994]

Have to give another nod to Ramin Djawadi for the music. I particularly liked the use a very low and menacing version of the the Jon/Dany love theme when the armies were landing on the beaches of King's Landing. This was obviously after Varys' execution and Jon's rebuke of Dany so clearly it was a sign of that love disintegrating.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I wasn't expecting a "badass" death for Cersei as some sort of reward for her ruthlessness as a character.  I was expecting her to not back down, and for someone - literally anyone - to kill her that would give some satisfaction to the viewers. 

Instead D & D gave her a graceful and forgiving death scene. Terrible.

 

She was willing to kill her and Tommen when Stannis was banging down the door.  Everyone is ruthless until they're up against the wall.  What did you expect her to do?  And Qyburn was begging her to sound the horn.

2 hours ago, Loco said:

At least no one is bitching about only 2nd tier characters dying

 

36 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Just to clarify, when I say corrupted what I mean is compromised in relation to Tyrion and Jaime.  Corrupted bad actors do things for approximately five different reasons:

Compromised

Revenge

Ideology 

Money

Ego 

The bad guys in this story are all driven by one or more of these motivations.  

Jon Snow hasn’t fallen prey to being completely compromised by Dany yet but he’s close.  Varys tried to give him an out in good faith but he rejected it because he isn’t motivated by malicious ambition which is precisely why he is “the one”.

CRIME.  I like that.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

3 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

I may not be remembering right but didn't Dany used to talk about how she wanted to "break the system or wheel" or something like that? Doesn't really explain killing innocent people but would be consistent with destroying King's Landing / Red Keep.

Also I think this storyline would've been classic GoT if it had been allowed to play out more slowly and in more detail. Unfortunately they're squeezing all of this into a few episodes, when previously it may have been over 2-3 seasons with a lot more intricacy. Just an unfortunate byproduct of the business side of the show and saving too much for the end

She was 14 when this all started.  Ideals can change, not the first time it's happened in a show.  She's a 22 year old, irrational child with the world's most powerful weapon.

[Hank Kingsley 20921]

3 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

She was willing to kill her and Tommen when Stannis was banging down the door.  Everyone is ruthless until they're up against the wall.  What did you expect her to do?  And Qyburn was begging her to sound the horn.

 

Right, she'd rather kill herself and her child than be taken captive by Stannis. But in last night's episode she was whimpering. Not consistent with her character at all.  

Though I do want to apologize to you, Barry McCokiner (love that handle/reference BTW), for my assumption that Jaime was not actually going back to Cersei's side after Episode 4. I had more faith in the writers than I should have. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

9 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The other villains were short term.  Cersei has been a consistent villain since the first episode.  I found her death more satisfying than a revenge killing would have been.

Dany's heel turn also isn't completely out of character.  She could have ruled over paradise in Essos.  Its the homeland of all her armies and subjects so they'd all be happy as shit drinking wine and eating grapes.  Instead she dragged all of them to a frozen hellscape to fight zombies, all so she could take over a throne that none of her subjects care about on a continent they had never even been to before.  Really, all their deaths in Westeros are her fault.  She was bound to snap.  Still, the complete lack of compassion is probably a little too far. She's always been a narcissist, but she's never been incompassionate.

The NK, Littlefinger, Joffrey, Ramsey Bolton, Walder Frey, Tywin, and the Mountain were more than just "short term."  Sure, Cersei has been around the longest, but I don't see why that makes it harder to write a satisfying death at the hands of a character rather than rubble. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Right, she'd rather kill herself and her child than be taken captive by Stannis. But in last night's episode she was whimpering. Not consistent with her character at all.  

Though I do want to apologize to you, Barry McCokiner (love that handle/reference BTW), for my assumption that Jaime was not actually going back to Cersei's side after Episode 4. I had more faith in the writers than I should have. 

 

Situations have changed right?   I mean she was getting the fuck bombed out of her and was starting death in the face.

[alincoln 2371]

16 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The other villains were short term.  Cersei has been a consistent villain since the first episode.  I found her death more satisfying than a revenge killing would have been.

Dany's heel turn also isn't completely out of character.  She could have ruled over paradise in Essos.  Its the homeland of all her armies and subjects so they'd all be happy as shit drinking wine and eating grapes.  Instead she dragged all of them to a frozen hellscape to fight zombies, all so she could take over a throne that none of her subjects care about on a continent they had never even been to before.  Really, all their deaths in Westeros are her fault.  She was bound to snap.  Still, the complete lack of compassion is probably a little too far. She's always been a narcissist, but she's never been incompassionate.

She could have delivered the same message (don't fuck with me or I'll slaughter you) by laying down dragon fire on all of the troops that surrendered and Cersei and company and remained true to her breaker of chains moniker, but D&D couldn't resist going full Mad Queen.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Dany should have never attacked King’s Landing.  It wasn’t necessary and she ignored the advice of her most intelligent advisors. 

Cersei wasn’t going to last long on the throne after Jon and Dany saved Westeros from the Army of the Dead while Cersei betrayed the realm by withholding support.

[Hank Kingsley 20921]

6 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Situations have changed right?   I mean she was getting the fuck bombed out of her and was starting death in the face.

She ordered Missandei's execution with a shit eating grin directed at Dany in the previous episode. Basically daring Khaleesi to get emotional and make a strategic mistake. Then she just stood there and watched the Dragon easily wipe out her army (has their ever been an easier or more lopsided victory in the history of the show?), cried and whimpered with Jaime, and got crushed by rubble. Oof. 

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

19 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Right, she'd rather kill herself and her child than be taken captive by Stannis. But in last night's episode she was whimpering. Not consistent with her character at all.  

Though I do want to apologize to you, Barry McCokiner (love that handle/reference BTW), for my assumption that Jaime was not actually going back to Cersei's side after Episode 4. I had more faith in the writers than I should have. 

 

She had a breakdown watching her kingdom fall. Was shown as qyburn kept correcting her assumptions about the fleet and the keep and her men with the facts. Actually your navy is burning and the walls have been breached and your men are laying down arms. Nothing went as planned and she cracked. 

Previously her plans have all worked, and it’s the unforeseen consequences that get her. 

I guess one could argue that dani’s destruction was a consequence of killing missandrei just to spite or tease her. She may have done that to ensure a quick attack, rather than wait for her people to revolt against her for reasons mentioned above. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[lateshow 1304]

All that buildup of the Golden Company....and poof, they're gone in 10 seconds. 

[Jerry Callo 8700]

3 minutes ago, lateshow said:

All that buildup of the Golden Company....and poof, they're gone in 10 seconds. 

Up in smoke

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, alincoln said:

She could have delivered the same message (don't fuck with me or I'll slaughter you) by laying down dragon fire on all of the troops that surrendered and Cersei and company and remained true to her breaker of chains moniker, but D&D couldn't resist going full Mad Queen.  

Yeah, but then how can they have all those scenes of dragon fire knocking down walls?

Also, its possible that Cersei is still alive.

[Goredho 17399]

I get all the criticism, the show isn’t as good as it was.  It tackling too much in too little time.  There are leaps all over the place.  So on.  Every criticism here has truth at its core.

I just don’t give a shit.  What the show does well it does *really* well.  At this point, it’s kind of strategically dumb and tactically brilliant and I choose to enjoy it for what it is vs hate it for what it’s not.

Plus, I want the ambition to be rewarded, even if the execution is not perfect.  I want more daring shows like GoT in the future, not less.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dany should have never attacked King’s Landing.  It wasn’t necessary and she ignored the advice of her most intelligent advisors. 

Cersei wasn’t going to last long on the throne after Jon and Dany saved Westeros from the Army of the Dead while Cersei betrayed the realm by withholding support.

Burning village was also a sign of defiance and to let everyone know she was in charge.  She was advised several times not to do it.  Ego took over here.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

33 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The NK, Littlefinger, Joffrey, Ramsey Bolton, Walder Frey, Tywin, and the Mountain were more than just "short term."  Sure, Cersei has been around the longest, but I don't see why that makes it harder to write a satisfying death at the hands of a character rather than rubble. 

Does every villain need a satisfying death.  I just counted 6 deserving and satisfying desks.  Why does everyone have to have one?  And to me it was poetic, she died in the arms of her love, and it was those two that started this shit.

[Sbbruin 21844]

Yeah, I was glad Jaimie didn't have some sort of redemption story.  He was a horrible person who got what he deserved.

[henrygandorf 29189]

35 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Right, she'd rather kill herself and her child than be taken captive by Stannis. But in last night's episode she was whimpering. Not consistent with her character at all.  

Though I do want to apologize to you, Barry McCokiner (love that handle/reference BTW), for my assumption that Jaime was not actually going back to Cersei's side after Episode 4. I had more faith in the writers than I should have. 

was i the only one thinking that tyrion finally had a clever plan - to get the bells to ring, then get jaime and cersei out in the open by themselves through the escape route - then poof, no boat.  just someone waiting to stab her?  or dany waiting to ask her to bend the knee?

dany's whole annoying thing the last couple seasons is bringing people in front of her and asking them to bend the knee.  why wasn't that her plan with cersei?  dany demands it, cersei refuses, then starts blathering on about tradition and pride and being a leader and bullshit and then greyworm decapitates her.  "too much talk."

still would've been better than "oh noes roof cave!"

[TwiceHorn 31452]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

so i've read several people on here make references to cersei's death not only being ok, but somewhat expected because of grrm's trollish way he fucks with the audience/readers and twists things around.  the tradition of this show is that a lot of people die, often when you don't quite expect it - and they're often times good, noble, and likable characters.

but there has also been a long and steady trend of unlikable characters getting their just desserts and dying in a very satisfying way for the viewer.

off the top of my head:

ramsey - loses battle, eaten by his own rabid, hungry dogs

joffrey - chokes to death at wedding in front of everyone

walder frey - killed by arya in front of whole family and his men

the night king - has battle won, but gets stabbed by arya sneak attack

littlefinger - great character, but ultimately evil, double-crossed by his own attempted double-cross, throat slit by arya

the mountain - assuming he's dead, epic battle with his brother where they both die

the high sparrow (what a terrible part of this tv show) - gets blowed up along with everyone he cares about

 

i'm sure there are more examples, but the bad guys get theirs in this tv show.  the good guys often do too, but we always get to see it.  the cersei death (assuming she's dead, which i'm not completely sold on) was poorly executed and ultimately unsatisfying no matter who you're rooting for.

i'm getting really tired of a twisty type of show getting a free pass on anything the viewers may not like just by saying, "well, that's how this show has always been lulz, you're just not very good at paying attention to what was perfectly obvious."

if things have to be explained on "inside the episode" featurettes, then it's because they fucked something up.  not because i'm not a sophisticated enough television viewer.

Cersei's undramatic and undeserved (manner of) death seems to be D&D's imitation of GRRM's twists.  Instead of a sudden and dramatic death for a good guy, you get an underwhelming death for the worst person on the show.  And you'll fucking like it.

[Guest Lobo]

I used to side with y'all that said they are trying to wrap up too much in too little time.  And while I've loved some of the scenes, they've managed to spend 30-45 minutes last night on just burning shit with cool tracking shots of people running away from the flames or hiding to avoid rubble.  So they don't really get a pass on that, IMO.  Never read the books, could really give a fuck about how they wrap this all up, all I know is they handed this project off to a couple of dumbshits.